Yeah the lack of level 6 maps is insulting to begin with. If a level 5 map in felucca received an equal point return to a level 6 from trammel, and it scaled like this for all maps(fel maps receive the value of 1 up on tram maps), I would say we have a fair return for the increased risk and utter lack of level 6 maps.
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It's really just a few PvMers complaining that they will get more if they did something in felucca on the basis that they don't want to take on the risks of felucca. They don't lose anything with this change, they do however receive the benefit of increased rewards for taking on more risks.
Some times I find that "trammelites," the ones that never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever go to felucca beyond peeking at yew/brit gates would cut off their noses in spite of their faces. They make the arguments that because they refuse to check out 20% of the game, everyone else should be given a disincentive to playing there too.
There are greater risks in felucca, it's true. Why shouldn't there be fair compensation for those risks? My reward isn't pvp, PvP is just a huge risk I take for being there. My reward for working harder ought to fair.
And FYI, not everyone falls into trammelite or PvP-diehard categories. A lot of us just want to play the whole game.
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Fayled Dhreams
Guest
Oy! settle down ... op is trying to raise the philosophy of Risk vs Reward to a mandated requirement.
ain't gonna happen. could .... just not very likely.
Or did "the change" happen upon Fel ... and I missed it?
Is Fel all about the Treasure and points now? NOT the PvP ??
If I remember correctly ... that WAS the initial reason for all the "doubling going on there"
hmmmm
... Ah!http://update.uo.com/design_409.html
Intent
As a brief preface, we’d like to explain the essential goals of the changes listed in this document.
The below changes should…
1. Establish an area where non-consensual pvp can thrive for a significant number of UO’s players.
2. Create a risk versus reward model that encourages non-consensual pvp based around resource control rather than profit from the deceased.
3. Provide meaningful and compelling rewards for players that successfully adventure in the specified areas.
well, clever argument could be made to either side ... but in general ... Fel was NOT supposed to be about Treasure and Points ...
Even my detractors, will give me that ... and whoever wrote the design doc, carefully phrased it so
Intent, explain the essential goals ... changes should …
and so ... almost 6 years later ... here comes a returning player ... asking for ... more points to turn in for "treasure"
reread the thread ... Does rp(returning player) sound more a merchant farmer ... or ... a philosopher warrior ??
I'm sorry, but it is fair, I read him/her as trying to maximize the profit for a newly available shiney ...
and elevate the above: Intent, explain the essential goals ... changes should … Create a risk versus reward model ...
elevate it to a Design requirement which MUST be met, cannot be published without, the only way to proceed ...
more points for fel treasure maps << thats what he keeps hammering towards ...
Not for improved PvP mechanics and gears and rules ... more points for fel treasure maps.
I already stated ... bring some MORE risk for fel ... NOT more bait to get people there .... NOT more reward (already added and added and added)
because >his/her< self described "deserted shard" ... probably doesn't present much challenge TO collecting these
Treasure Map(Plainly, Expertly, and Adeptly Drawn) 100pts
Cleverly Drawn Treasure Map 200pts
Deviously Drawn Treasure Map 500pts
Ingenious Map Minor Artifacts 500pts
Ingeniously Drawn Treasure Map 1,000pts
But as I asked ...
did "the change" happen upon Fel ... and I missed it?
Is Fel all about the Treasure and points now? NOT the PvP ??
and ...news flash any points for Fel maps ... will be an exponential INCREASE over what is in the codeing .... as it stands
hehehehehe
*takes more Quatloo*
Fayled, I'm not even going to dissect your points anymore. they're all entirely silly.
Risk Vs Reward is the official policy of the developers. Thats set in stone until the developers say otherwise.
Those who think fel is 100% about pvp are the people who play only small portions of the game and can't see UO as a whole. They are the die-hards who never leave yew gate, even to do champ spawns and the trammelites who never go there. believe it or not, both groups are in the minority. Most people really just want to play UO, and you two lobbying groups stop talking.
You're still avoiding any points made by trying to side track the entire argument to tangents. You fayl
Felucca has never been exclusively about pvp, non-consensual pvp is a condition not the reward... The moment you realize that is the moment you will stop being a lobbyist and start approaching the game from a holistic standpoint.
You've never heard of precedents huh?
Also, increased value results in more things to fight over for folks and a greater range of areas to fight in. If you feel that risk vs reward is a way to lure you anywhere, take the safe road and get the guaranteed money, others will choose to gamble.
and in the future I will no longer grant you the respect of dissecting your posts in a manner befitting a cogent argument. If you choose to post like a normal human being, I may rescind that decision. Until then I will assume you are posting like you're drunk to hide the lack of real content in your posts.
Have a nice day.
Risk Vs Reward is the official policy of the developers. Thats set in stone until the developers say otherwise.
Those who think fel is 100% about pvp are the people who play only small portions of the game and can't see UO as a whole. They are the die-hards who never leave yew gate, even to do champ spawns and the trammelites who never go there. believe it or not, both groups are in the minority. Most people really just want to play UO, and you two lobbying groups stop talking.
Congrats on misinterpreting the information from the link you provided. You're quoting publish 16 changes and the implementation of champ spawns. Good job.....
You're still avoiding any points made by trying to side track the entire argument to tangents. You fayl
Felucca has never been exclusively about pvp, non-consensual pvp is a condition not the reward... The moment you realize that is the moment you will stop being a lobbyist and start approaching the game from a holistic standpoint.
You've never heard of precedents huh?
Simply put, there is a long chain of established precedents that favor continuing risk v reward in shadowbane as a whole, including changes as recent as the current patch!
Like it or not, pub 16 established a precedent that as you've said has now continued for 60% of the life of this game and only continues to be reinforced.
Also, increased value results in more things to fight over for folks and a greater range of areas to fight in. If you feel that risk vs reward is a way to lure you anywhere, take the safe road and get the guaranteed money, others will choose to gamble.
and in the future I will no longer grant you the respect of dissecting your posts in a manner befitting a cogent argument. If you choose to post like a normal human being, I may rescind that decision. Until then I will assume you are posting like you're drunk to hide the lack of real content in your posts.
Have a nice day.
This is just ridiculous and I mean both sides. I see both sides making round arguments that go no where. People are putting forward their ideas then calling that "fact" because they stated it before in a post. Just because you make claims doesn't MAKE them facts later on. If one side does make a VALID point, the other side just IGNORES it and argues about all the stupid stuff some more. I have seen valid points on both sides and they go totally unaddressed because they don't want to deal with anything that they can't just get on their high horse about and flame the other side!
I, personally, still think the greater rewards in Fel were put in to attract people to Fel and even if it was for the risk, that risk is so far less than it was when it was instituted, that they aren't even in the same league as each other. I am not saying there is NO risk, only that it is so far less then when this was implemented that to claim it is the same level now is just stupid.
Also, I had no idea you get a higher level map off of the same monster in Fel than in Tram. That coupled with higher fame, higher gold and higher hides/bones/whatever you cut off of them seems like PLENTY of reward for the risk to me. How much reward should you get for going to Fel to hunt??? I am assuming your not going there JUST to farm T-maps so they are just on top of whatever your there to do in the first place? You also get a higher chance at getting all of the 10th Anniversary artifacts per the Devs in Fel so add that in...
All that said, I couldn't give a rat's ass one way or the other and by this point, I doubt anyone but the people flaming each other give a crap about this arguement.
And yes, I do hunt, do champ spawns, PvP, get fame, and just hang out some in Fel... I DO NOT hang around Yew gate EVER...
This has gone on way longer then it EVER should have and has degenerated into a nasty mess that everyone should just let die.
Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic
I, personally, still think the greater rewards in Fel were put in to attract people to Fel and even if it was for the risk, that risk is so far less than it was when it was instituted, that they aren't even in the same league as each other. I am not saying there is NO risk, only that it is so far less then when this was implemented that to claim it is the same level now is just stupid.
Also, I had no idea you get a higher level map off of the same monster in Fel than in Tram. That coupled with higher fame, higher gold and higher hides/bones/whatever you cut off of them seems like PLENTY of reward for the risk to me. How much reward should you get for going to Fel to hunt??? I am assuming your not going there JUST to farm T-maps so they are just on top of whatever your there to do in the first place? You also get a higher chance at getting all of the 10th Anniversary artifacts per the Devs in Fel so add that in...
All that said, I couldn't give a rat's ass one way or the other and by this point, I doubt anyone but the people flaming each other give a crap about this arguement.
And yes, I do hunt, do champ spawns, PvP, get fame, and just hang out some in Fel... I DO NOT hang around Yew gate EVER...
This has gone on way longer then it EVER should have and has degenerated into a nasty mess that everyone should just let die.
Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic
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packrat
Guest
You guys haven't learned that you can't argue with beerman? When he starts losing an argument he resorts to name calling and insults. He has something with nuts swinging from a tree or something like that. I see he uses that phrase often. He must have read that on the internet.
oh really? Last I saw it I quit replying to this crap because of a certain individuals inability to see things other than from his own viewpoint. I didnt respond to the initial OPs post until I took the time to at least *try* and see things from his perspective. Glad to see you could get me back in here tho with your idiot nonsense!
also, speaking of personal attacks, trolling, and the likes...look in the mirror. Last I checked I didnt say crap to you. Are you still butthurt from a previous thread I posted in oppostioni to you? *swinging from nuts* describes your specific behavior. How? A monkey swings from tree to tree, while a troller will swing from nutsack to nutsack (thread to thread) with the intent of grief on thier mind instead of bananas. Did I look it up on the net? Nope, been using it for going on 25 years.
How about providing something useful to a conversation instead of this typical drivel eh? Ohhhhhh THATS RIGHT! You were a cop, which in your mind gives you the right to be a jerkoff! (i know this isnt true mind you readers...I am just trying to lower myself to the posters level) Let me get this straight too, you are in your 50s plus no? If correct why is it you act like a little kid?
Beerman, a poor argument doesn't mean i've not considered your points. It just means your arguments are poor.
There have been very few intelligent arguments from one side and it's really only 2 or 3 people who make the rest of their side suffer. I can smack you over the head with good points all day, as I seem to have done. It's a sad day when you advocate a side and hurt it.
There have been very few intelligent arguments from one side and it's really only 2 or 3 people who make the rest of their side suffer. I can smack you over the head with good points all day, as I seem to have done. It's a sad day when you advocate a side and hurt it.
I stand by what I said...... there shouldn't be ANY preferential anything for Fel..... it's a playstyle choice..... and I personally don't think there should be any BONUS at all given to Fel playstyle... Fel should not have been given any "exclusive" anything..... no powerscrolls no double rescources.... nothing.....
Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.
Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.
You havent given good reason as to why yet. In responce to both my comments as well as fayled, instead of countering you just make accuasations and say we are wrong. How is that proving your point?
I noticed you are not mentioning the other thread on maps or Fayled's statements with a ten foot pole. As others have clearly pointed out to you, the RvR value is already given out the moment you get a map in fel. The map is the RvR... no responding to these? Instead you just skip over it and go right to what I said for response? Must I include all of these other posts or can we both just agree they exist?
As I said you really havent been paying attention to anything. You keep assuming *arguement*, you dont even bother to consider others thoughts and posts, and you completely disregard all that is not of your opinion. These things do not win a debate, in fact they constitute an arguement. If you wish to argue, you do that in from of a judge. In a public forum you offer debate. You offer no reason to even discuss an issue with you, so....
Im done with you.
P
packrat
Guest
and beerman and fayled refuse to acknowledge the fact that folks in felucca are shafted by a lack of level 6 maps. they refuse to accept felucca maps receiving a scaled reward value for the increased risk of obtaining them. Frankly, I take the fact that felucca maps can't even be turned in as a sign that the devs have indeed read this thread and will be fixing the minor oversight they made.
Beerman, you and fayled don't even address my points. I dissected your posts time and time again. It's just that you two disagree with risk v reward in general and you'll say anything to try and stop the continuation of this long established developer policy.
Beerman, you and fayled don't even address my points. I dissected your posts time and time again. It's just that you two disagree with risk v reward in general and you'll say anything to try and stop the continuation of this long established developer policy.
Soooo, for players that like to use as much of the game as possible, they deserve no increased rewards for their increased risks? What about the fact that in the almost complete safety of trammel facets players are granted the most powerful items in the game easier and easier. To say nothing of the fact that many folks who engage in pvp are unable to travel to over 80% of the game on their favorite characters.
I don't think you understand. Not everyone in felucca is there to fight non-stop. some folks just want to enjoy playing anywhere they want, many like myself enjoy playing in familiar surroundings. I don't like being in the neon nightmare of ninja land, thats a play style choice. You don't like going to 20% of land in the game, that's a play style choice. Playing the game all over is playing the game as intended the developers.
Let's examine that logic because I'm pretty sure the pvp-diehards would argue that there ought to be no bonuses for playing without any danger. In either case, both of you would be wrong. There should be unique things about everywhere. Those folks that hunt in felucca ought to be justly compensated for the gamble they are taking. This is not just my opinion but a long standing policy that has existed for most of the time UO has existed. As fayled pointed out, it's a policy they established around six years ago. is it fair then that folks who engage in pvp regularly can't go to all the lands in the game on any character they want? According to you, everyone in felucca has accepted the pvp consequences and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for punishing a player for killing someone else there. Fortunately, you're wrong and the developers know it. There are tons of rewards for playing in trammel ruleset and comparatively precious few for playing in felucca. You receive double resources, double fame/karma, and you have the CHANCE to get powerscrolls. In trammel you get artifacts, better monsters with much better loot than those found in the original lands, complete safety, no difficulties of movement or travel and better tmaps.
Again, if you don't think things should be exclusive to a facet, then you have to start eliminating all sorts of things from the game. You receive unfair benefits for playing in trammel ruleset according to diehard pvpers. Personally I think you get plenty of things to do in felucca and trammelites are just bitter about anything they don't get to monopolize because they are greedy. I believe the devs know that most folks don't fit the categories of trammelite or diehard pvpers, they're just happy UO players hunting anywhere they want and happy to gamble from time to time on for increased rewards if they want to risk more dangers and tons more difficulties.
It's sad that folks have gotten so out of hand with their trammel vs felucca war that they can't look past their stubborn and often irrational positions and accept good fixes for the majority of us.
O
OmnicronX
Guest
The game won't be fun again until they find a way to make it scary... that fundamentally means forcing people to go to Fel and feel that sense of suspense again.
We dont fail to do anything....in fact you have no clue how much of an open mind I have, let alone Fayled. On the flip side you just keep throwing the same crap on the table....nothing has changed.
Instead of trying to say we dont do this, we dont do that, why dont you look at what the rest of the communtiy has had to say. You keep mentioning and crying about no reward for the risk, when in all actuality it is fel that gives you a level higher map, it gives you double resources off the spawned monsters, AND!!!!! you get to STILL turn in the map AFTER it has been completed. Now I am not sure if you are just to lazy to acknowledge that FACT or if you just dont have anything to say to refute that. Regardless, our points were made, Hunters point was made, and on top of taht most of the forum has spoken AGAINST this. So give it up already.
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Fayled Dhreams
Guest
From here Added ingeniously drawn treasure maps (level 6) for Trammel and Felucca facets ... puts someones statement about "No lvl 6's in Fel" as either debunked OR as an unreported bug.
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galefan2004
Guest
They drop from any level 5 fame creature in Felucca. Thats far from a small area. Anyone that hunts there normally will get plenty of treasure maps from Felucca. I personally hunt more in Felucca anti-virtue dungeons then in Trammel.
On the other hand, I would be happy to have improvements made to Treasure Hunting. I just don't believe that increasing the loot in Felucca maps goes far enough. Perhaps it is a start, but seeing anyone can currently loot those chests (althoug they go grey) after they are dug up it would make it much more a PvP event then a Treasure Map improvement, and if they are going to buff PvP this doesn't really go far enough to do so.
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galefan2004
Guest
In some cases loot is almost double. For instance, you get more loot from peerless bosses in Felucca.
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galefan2004
Guest
Awesome idea...wait lets make it 1/2 in Felucca and 1/4 in Trammel. I mean, the price of ingots and other resources hasn't gotten to the point where only scripters bother to craft yet, so lets keep nerfing crafters and resource gatherers until the scripters have no competition.
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galefan2004
Guest
NO. They were never meant to be a reward that could be controlled. If you go to p16 development posts you read that the players were upset because they knew that the fact that they were in Felucca would lead them to become controllable. The developers said that they would never be controlled because there was to many spots. At the time, you still sat out for 30 minutes if you died. Hell, at the time blues accidentally killed each other, and no one complained. It wasn't until after the AoS issue that spawns became controlled by guilds because half of the blues left in about four months. What is even worse is that the developers actually said they would change champion spawns if they became controlled by a small number of people and instead of doing that they let small guilds become rich on eBay because they could dominate spawns. That was a sick joke to the player base and is probably one of the biggest reasons PvMers look back at UO with both admiration and disgust as they play WoW.
I have seen nothing to address my arguments, just the exact same as before. Ignoring points because they do not fit your view does not invalidate them and further your argument. The only things being point by pointed in this thread are things to flame each other about. This argument (not debate) has lost ALL credibility with me and I see no open minded exchange of ideas here.
Further, I find it erroneous to say, well Trammies get arties in Doom so we should get extra points on maps from Fel, this brings in a totally different argument into the mix that does not add anything of value to the original argument that because of greater risk, Fel maps should get higher turn in points than Tram maps. Comparing the points for Tram maps to Fel maps is a valid argument, the rest is just clouding the issue with garbage.
Nothing keeps a person from going to whatever location they want to hunt for whatever items they desire in game unless they have ALL red chars and I don't know a single person who predominantly PvPs who doesn't have a blue char to take and hunt Doom or Peerless with and although it might not be their favorite char to play, it still seems to get the job done... This is turning into a Fel vs. Tram argument on what each side gets compared to the other and has almost nothing to do with the comparison between the point value of T-maps anymore.
And in answer to the SPECIFIC position that Fel maps should get more points than Tram maps, here is my take on this again:
Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic
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galefan2004
Guest
This whole post is about debating rather there is actually more risk or not in Felucca. There simply IS NOT. I have always hunted in Felucca. I have never actually seen a red in all that time. Why would a red come out of their way to come to the bottom of a dungeon to kill me unless I did something to upset them. They are more likely to go raid spawns that are going on at the same time. Hell, I have even seen blues from guilds that my guild is not exactly friendly with, and they left me to hunt in peace. As far as no push through and having to walk through the dungeons, thats annoyance not risk...the reward for that annoyance is that regardless of what has been posted in FoF the spawn rate is still faster in Felucca, and I have never once had to wait for a respawn in Felucca. Also, there is less junk spawn. I will take the chance of seeing a pk every month or so over having a room filled with 10 imps 5 gargoyles and a balron to hunt in.
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galefan2004
Guest
Why would the developers give concentration to a matter that can't even be decided by Felucca players themselves. Anyone that believe there is increased risk in Felucca believes that simply because a PK MIGHT kill you that its increased risk. They also argue walking in and out of dungeons is increased risk (its annoying but not really risky). They also argue that push through is increased risk (because you can't walk around mobs when 1/4 of them spawn in Felucca as do in Trammel).
Its simply not more risky or most people wouldn't be doing it. People do it because they don't desire to deal with the increased ammount of junk spawn. On any given day I will take a PKer that is so bored (because he sucks at PvP) on over 10 imps in the spot I want to hunt in.
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galefan2004
Guest
Not entirely true. You can get level 6 maps in Felucca. The named monsters in Painted Caves give you level 6 paragon chests. Also, if you black rock infect a mob that normally gives a level 5 map then you get a level 6 map no matter where you are hunting.
This is what we call anecdotal evidence. It's the linch pin in most trammelite and pvp-diehard arguments. It's also almost entirely unreliable and most folks just make this stuff up, there's no way to establish the credibility of your claims.
Where are you playing that any 1 guild completely dominates champ spawns? I know of no server where any guild receives more than 75% of pscrolls from champ spawns. This is largely due to the fact that even massive guilds can not patrol every spawn at all hours or form up a large enough party to roll a group doing champ spawns.
Not even on pacific, birth place and home of the fallen lords have they been able to stop guilds from doing champ spawns successfully every time. Evidence in this can be found in the low cost of pscrolls on almost all servers. Stat scrolls are a bit less consistent with this but again nobody ever had 100% of the scrolls from spawns for even a month on any server.
And as for your, as they play wow comment. Legions of pvpers look back in disgust of what has been done to UO as they play shadowbane (a recent survey in shadowbane showed that almost all people still playing shadowbane were old UO players disillusioned by the way development of UO had gone) and age of conan. Look at many polls in darkfall's forums, legions of pvpers from UO forced from UO due to unfavorable conditions in which to play.
I'd never seen one as a result but that's very interesting. It still means that level 6s in felucca are restricted to far fewer locations, and thus vastly less available than in the trammel ruleset. It's harder to receive the same reward in felucca than in trammel does not make your argument substantially stronger but rather weakened one of my points.
Bravo, you just entered a debate finally.
Now you are jsut making me laugh. The student trying to play the teacher...
You just returned to the game, so many things have changed. One would think the wise thing to do would be to become familiar with your arguemetn before bringing it to the table for debate.
This is what debaters, and politicos call reframing the argument. You're attempting to continue to push this into a felucca vs trammel argument. The proper terms for your argument is trammelites(folks who never go to felucca like beerman and fayled) and pvp-diehards(folks who never leave yew gate or ever attack monsters outside of a champ spawn).
If we are to properly frame the argument, we must simply address the facts that:
1) according to the developers, risks faced in felucca are higher than those in trammel rulesets.(a very well established fact that isn't up for debate)
2) The developers have continued to scale rewards found in felucca, in compliance with their precedent of RvR.
3) A minor flaw that felucca maps are apparently not being accepted for more points on origin or test and require fixing as is.
And what is the issue at hand?
An oversight that led to what we can only assume is a turn in system that forgets to adequately reward players for taking on increased risks.
Or they do it because they can receive increased rewards!! Oh smacked down by the RvR precedent firmly established in UO.
Prove it to the devs, it's not even up for debate.
This is quite the statement. You assume that a bored pk sucks at pvp. And you make the claim that a player is thus easier to kill than 10 imps that don't have the advantage of human intelligence or speed.
Incorrect and off topic. Risk Vs Reward is well established in precedent. No argument on it is valid in this post as you're refuting the principle behind 6 years of policy(as fayled pointed out for me)
Anecdotal and probably a flagrant exaggeration.
To hunt you? Let alone the fact that a person doesn't need to be red to pk you or stand around stealing your gold/bandaids.
An argument that is entirely made up and probably an exaggeration again.
I'm henceforth no longer responding to arguments that, in theme or explicitly in statement, argue against the concept of risk vs reward. It's moot. The developers have supported the existence of this guiding policy for most of UO's life. Give it up, it's a fact of life and if you don't want to take on more risk for more reward, you have 80% of the game to enjoy.
Hunter, your posts are almost simply trolls, your opinions, or regurgitation of things other people said. I'm not going to repeatedly write the same thing.
Hunter, your posts are almost simply trolls, your opinions, or regurgitation of things other people said. I'm not going to repeatedly write the same thing.
The current facts:
1) according to the developers, risks faced in felucca are higher than those in trammel rulesets.(a very well established fact that isn't up for debate.)
2) The developers have continued to scale rewards found in felucca, in compliance with their precedent of RvR.(It was established firmly in publish 16 when the concept was introduced and it's been continually supported by developer action as recent as publish 53. You refuse to accept the game as it is today if you say otherwise.)
3) A minor flaw that felucca maps are apparently not being accepted for more points on origin or test and require fixing as is.( evidenced http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=4103)
And what is the topic of the thread?
An oversight that led to what we can only assume is a turn in system that forgets to adequately reward players for taking on increased risks.
Is that clear for vitriolic partisans on both sides of a tangential topic?
1) according to the developers, risks faced in felucca are higher than those in trammel rulesets.(a very well established fact that isn't up for debate.)
2) The developers have continued to scale rewards found in felucca, in compliance with their precedent of RvR.(It was established firmly in publish 16 when the concept was introduced and it's been continually supported by developer action as recent as publish 53. You refuse to accept the game as it is today if you say otherwise.)
3) A minor flaw that felucca maps are apparently not being accepted for more points on origin or test and require fixing as is.( evidenced http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=4103)
And what is the topic of the thread?
An oversight that led to what we can only assume is a turn in system that forgets to adequately reward players for taking on increased risks.
Is that clear for vitriolic partisans on both sides of a tangential topic?
There have been brought up 2 valid point of minor significance to the topic at hand that refute the plea for policy enforcement.
You've been demanding the thread be closed for many posts and you've tried to get in locked with flames and trolls. Keep your posts in line with those established for these forums and please try to properly address the threads you post in.
trolls and regurgitations? you are a fool. hunter is one of this communities most upstanding members, ALWAYS keeping an open mind on subjects of ALL types.
What you still fail to realize is that it has been you since post one, who is being unreasonable. The only reason you wanted tis change was for your benefit, not anyone elses. Like you Hunter also has a large assortment of maps, but she like the rest of us understands teh current RvR ruleset for felluca. It would be a GREAT idea for you to take some courses on understanding the difference between whats factual and whats inferred. The legal crap has obviously gone to your head.
1) in fel you recieve a tmap one level higher for it being in fel...
2)??? LOL!!!!!! says the player who doesnt know his rewards for fel are already being increased...(more loot, higher level map)
3)not a fact...its an opinion. again, do you even understand the difference? There is no mention of fel maps given higher point value. Please stop inserting opinion and calling it fact.
how do you like those apples?
Actually I ORIGINALLY SUPPORTED the idea of higher turn ins, if you reread this thread carefully, but changed my mind as more arguments came forward. The points I listed all been ignored and bypassed so I reposted them again. I have a very open mind and can look at others arguments and give them serious thought, so to say my posts are "simply trolls" (whatever the hell that is) when I originally supported your side and than later changed my mind due to further facts is extremely petty and small minded of you. I gave you tons of help and information in another thread and have been rudely dealt with by you in two separate threads. I wash my hands of you and this thread hence forth since all you can do is cut and burn or ignore anything that puts your view in question.
I have been civil and put forth clear and concise points in this one which as of yet have still not been address. Kicking dirt over them and pretending they don't exist is pointless and only weakens the strength of your argument. GREATER REWARD IS ALREADY BUILT INTO THE MONSTER WHEN YOU KILL IT! Greater fame, gold, materials, higher maps and a higher chance of receiving 10th anniversary artifacts.
Hunter Moon [HOT] Atlantic
I acknowledged the 1 point here. Creatures in fel may grant a 1 level bump in maps. Great, except that bump isn't always rewarded fairly by the current turn in system. the rest has nothing to do with the maps and turn ins. You quote yourself repeatedly. I wasn't aware that by not responding to every single damn post you write you got insulted. God forbid I simply accept something you say and move on to discuss the ridiculous posts other people make. But you keep repeating yourself and becoming ruder, despite not being refuted on your valid point.
I don't know if its the heat or just that you beerman and fayled are just vitriolic partisans. I firmly hope it's the heat or some lack of clarity that drives you on because those I would be insulted to ever be associated with someone like beerman who just attacks people when he can't make a good point.
I suggest less time spent trying to impress with words you pull from this semesters textbooks or off the TV. (in fact they dont even fit here bud!) It shows lack of originality and again shows linear thought. Like Hunter, Fayled, and others...I am done here. Good luck!
Let's review.
If we are to properly frame the argument, we must simply address these pre-existing facts which currently can be considered constants or not variable.
1) according to the developers, risks faced in felucca are higher than those in trammel rulesets.(a very well established fact that isn't up for debate in this thread.)
2) The developers have continued to scale rewards found in felucca, in compliance with their precedent of RvR. (Since publish 16, up to and including publish 53, changes have been introduced in which the developers have continued to scale rewards based on a premise of risk vs reward.)
3) Felucca Tmaps are not accepted by the current turn in according to reports from players on origin and test.
And what is the issue at hand?
Tmaps from felucca are not honored at the turn in for publish 53. There has been no word as to whether or not these maps will receive a heightened value for the risks.
There substantial differences between maps from felucca and trammel.
The first is that maps in felucca are only available in one facet in a small number of locations.
The locations which higher end maps in felucca largely correspond to highly frequented areas by pks as they are close or in many cases exactly where champ spawns or short cuts to champ spawns are located.
Maps obtained in the trammel ruleset are nearly impossible to lose once obtained.
Maps are obtained in four facets out of five for trammel, many of which from monsters which are not even in felucca. Many of these monsters receive high rewards despite being considered entirely too weak for their loot by PvMers.(this is largely why many believe felucca maps ought to receive a scaled reward at turn-ins as the bump to maps from spawn in felucca is not apples to apples, it's apples to oranges.)
Farming in dungeons in felucca is highly restrictive to travel and problematic to farming(see scripters farming spawn in trammel due to ease of travel not in felucca). PKs and hunters must traverse the same areas to go to different destinations, substantially raising an already high chance that the two cross paths).
The counter argument: Tmaps from monsters in felucca are scaled 1 reward higher than from their exact counterparts in trammel.(see lich to lich comparison)
If we are to properly frame the argument, we must simply address these pre-existing facts which currently can be considered constants or not variable.
1) according to the developers, risks faced in felucca are higher than those in trammel rulesets.(a very well established fact that isn't up for debate in this thread.)
2) The developers have continued to scale rewards found in felucca, in compliance with their precedent of RvR. (Since publish 16, up to and including publish 53, changes have been introduced in which the developers have continued to scale rewards based on a premise of risk vs reward.)
3) Felucca Tmaps are not accepted by the current turn in according to reports from players on origin and test.
And what is the issue at hand?
Tmaps from felucca are not honored at the turn in for publish 53. There has been no word as to whether or not these maps will receive a heightened value for the risks.
There substantial differences between maps from felucca and trammel.
The first is that maps in felucca are only available in one facet in a small number of locations.
The locations which higher end maps in felucca largely correspond to highly frequented areas by pks as they are close or in many cases exactly where champ spawns or short cuts to champ spawns are located.
Maps obtained in the trammel ruleset are nearly impossible to lose once obtained.
Maps are obtained in four facets out of five for trammel, many of which from monsters which are not even in felucca. Many of these monsters receive high rewards despite being considered entirely too weak for their loot by PvMers.(this is largely why many believe felucca maps ought to receive a scaled reward at turn-ins as the bump to maps from spawn in felucca is not apples to apples, it's apples to oranges.)
Farming in dungeons in felucca is highly restrictive to travel and problematic to farming(see scripters farming spawn in trammel due to ease of travel not in felucca). PKs and hunters must traverse the same areas to go to different destinations, substantially raising an already high chance that the two cross paths).
The counter argument: Tmaps from monsters in felucca are scaled 1 reward higher than from their exact counterparts in trammel.(see lich to lich comparison)
Ominus....... Lets just say that you are the one who takes the risk And decided and Choose the path of a murderer... that's your choice.... crying about this risk vs Reward...... NO>.... to me you choose the life of a murderous scum then you pay the price..... I do NOT believe that murderers who choose that playstyle KNOWING FULL WELL THE PENALTIES should have special rewards or benifits.......... To be a murderer should have penalties.... the idea behind UO and Lord British was Virtue...... Choosing the life of a murderer has it's drawbacks.... if you can't abide by them then by all means pay the penalty and join the rest of the "good" croud as a BLUE...... reap all the benifits of both Trammel and Fel.....
I do NOT think they should put any added bonus to fel at all..... the bonus of fel is it's own playstyle...... that should be it..
Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.
I do NOT think they should put any added bonus to fel at all..... the bonus of fel is it's own playstyle...... that should be it..
Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.
This is not the discussion though. Risk vs Reward is firmly established in the game. It's been a long standing policy for 6 years. Divisive claims that argue everyone entering a facet should be punished for no reason is unfair to people who want to enjoy all of the facets. Nothing bars people from taking on the increased risks in felucca for the chance of increased rewards.
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