Phantasmagorian
Sage
There, I said it. Played since 1997. Some of my best gaming memories!
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Ultima Online is one of the best games ever.
- Thread starter Phantasmagorian
- Start date
- Watchers 4
Ditto! I'll be getting my 25 Year Vet Reward shield come December.
I hope you are still playing. If not why not join in and make more good memories. Infinite areas and challenges, and most importantly, a good majority of good player base to interact.
I've been here since 2001, and I'm not leaving until they turn off the server!
Ultima Online: Ride or Die!
Ultima Online: Ride or Die!
Phantasmagorian
Sage
I returned in 2016 and eventually had my own tower again on Atlantic. A few years ago I somehow missed a payment and lost my tower. Really sad... I put A LOT of love into it. After playing intensively many months in 2016, I haven't really returned. I log in once in a blue moon. I haven't really played for years now. Don't really know what's new either!
A few years back I saw they officially wanted to update the classic client, which excited me. I'm not seeing anything new now that I log in though.
P.S.
Phantasmagorian
Sage
What is this in reference to? How did they attempt to kill it?
They haven't. They're doing their very best to keep it going and relevant, but not everyone agrees with their ideas. I just play to have fun, and have so much interest in my bank balance that I couldn't tell you how much I have, so their plans are fine by me, I'm still happily playing regularly.
Glad that some people still feel this way. I play trying to recapture some of the past and make more good memories but would honestly struggle to give a "good memory" over the past 5ish years (as compared to my really fond memories back 15-20 years ago).
UO for me over the last half decade kind of reminds me when you have a really good dish for dinner (whatever that might be). You have a bunch of friends/family over and you all eat a bunch of it, you think "oh man that is soooo good!!", and go to bed with a full stomach. Life is good! There was a ton of food so there are leftovers so the next night you it again... you eat by yourself but it's still good! Well... there was so much made you have leftovers for the next 4-5 nights... by the end of the week you really just eating it so it doesn't go to waste. It's not bad... it's just not as fresh and you've seen the same thing for the past week so you're ready for something new/different.
I don't think they are purposefully trying to kill it but there is certainly the feeling that they have put the production shards into "maintenance mode" over the past 4 years while working on NL which they've given very little detail about. The maintenance mode notion is because they've basically given us the same style event, just reskinned (or for Halloween/Xmas/Artisan Fest - same exact thing), over the past 4 years. Rinse and repeat...and unfortunately they haven't increased the frequency either; they are still releasing these cookie cutter events only once of twice a year.
In addition to that, Mesanna refuses to give a concrete answer/take action on "illegal" 3rd party programs which has led to seemingly more use/abuse of scripting/cheating. Lastly, there is the whole divide (by Mesanna/Kyronix specifically) on the official forum vs here (Stratics) where threads over there get shut down pretty quick by the mods when people start questioning the Devs about what they are doing or the use of 3rd party programs / RTM. Sometimes it's feels a little bit the Gustapo how quickly some of them get shut down.
IMO there definitely seems to be a little bit of a divide that has been made between the Devs and the paying player base. Of course that will depend on who you ask because some people are fine with the same content we've had for the past 5/10/15 years and think the Dev team is doing a great job.
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Phantasmagorian
Sage
Right. I wouldn't know. I posted some ideas on the official forums which I think were very cool... I think the base game design allows for so many extremely cool mechanics which would not be labor-heavy to implement (I'm a developer myself)
Custom architect deeds: Feature suggestion: custom house architect deeds.
Custom end boss spawning: New Feature: Ancient Apparition (boss)
Custom architect deeds: Feature suggestion: custom house architect deeds.
Custom end boss spawning: New Feature: Ancient Apparition (boss)
Yes great ideas totally ignored by the developers
Phantasmagorian
Sage
Thanks! I got way more where that came from. I think it would breathe so much life into UO to have mechanics like these and it's also very strongly in line with sandbox game design for an MMORPG.
The lack of communication and player interaction from the developers is why many players are so unhappy with the team
Phantasmagorian
Sage
Too bad. I'd gladly even volunteer a few hours to write down the game design of such ideas. Even code. I think if they would allow people to help out, it could flourish so much. Open source a part of the game and let people contribute features. This is basically a fact if you look at how much love custom servers and such have gotten. There are dedicated teams out there to this stuff. Very unfortunate it got fragmented like that.
I did try to volunteer to Mesanna several years ago to help think of events and set them up (quasi EM - part time), but the impression I got was more or less that she wasn't really looking for part-time help. Maybe things have changed since then. Personally I'd love to help with EM events (and even make some off cycle events) but I wouldn't want it to be a full-time sort of gig where I had to jump through hoops of getting events/rewards approved.
Additionally, there is definitely a potential issue by allowing volunteers to code things. The team would have to analyze the code and test it to make sure people weren't sticking in some sort of "trojan" type of thing where they would code something within the full code that would allow them to exploit/benefit from the code down the road. The team is already (supposedly) slammed as it is so adding another task of thoroughly checking code might be a tall task. While I'm not saying you would do that, the risk is there and for that reason I do not see them allowing volunteers anytime soon.
Well, long story short, UO has 2 developers. One senior and one junior. These two guys develop and maintain the production shards, the legacy shards, the CC client, and the EC client.
Adding a 3rd type of NL shard on top of these was a stupid decision. Both mesanna and kyronix are dumb f**ks for deciding to develop NL.
Few alpha testers leaked their experience on discord to friends. From what I heard, everybody thinks that NL needs at least 2-3 years of development to be production ready.
This is what I meant by "they are trying to kill the game". They are not purposefully trying to kill the game. They are just too dumb to know what is right.
Adding a 3rd type of NL shard on top of these was a stupid decision. Both mesanna and kyronix are dumb f**ks for deciding to develop NL.
Few alpha testers leaked their experience on discord to friends. From what I heard, everybody thinks that NL needs at least 2-3 years of development to be production ready.
This is what I meant by "they are trying to kill the game". They are not purposefully trying to kill the game. They are just too dumb to know what is right.
Although that experience is kind of like 5th or 6th hand at this point, that wouldn't surprise me if that's true and NL still needs quite a bit of work; simply for the fact they kept things so high level without really any detail about anything. I understand not giving it all away before it's even released but there has been essentially zero detail on any of the concepts like skill gain or PvP. All they've said is "skill gain will be easier and you will gain by doing stuff" and "PvP will be opt in".
Maybe playing coy for a year or 2 into it could of been the plan to build some mystery but purposefully keeping everyone that much in the dark 4 years into it (aka killing any/all hype they might have built) tells me they probably bit off more than they could chew and don't really know how it will work. Now they have some Alpha testers to give feedback and this is where the actual coding begins.
Phantasmagorian
Sage
That seem very, very unwise. Where did NL come from then, really? Ugh.. Sounds like they're criminally understaffed.
Several people asked for a "throwback" shard. From there things widely vary on what "throwback" means and what they wanted. Some people wanted Pre-T2a while others wanted Pre-Mondain Legacy.
IMO many of these people were trying to relive those great memories they had 20 years ago. Unfortunately those that are looking to relive this part of their UO life don't take into consideration that the people they played with all those years ago were large part of their memories along with where we were from a technology perspective (ie there wasn't really such thing as scripters/bots 20+ years ago - at least ones anywhere close to what we have today).
Phantasmagorian
Sage
I have those same feelings, but I think a good game designer could do stuff in the current state of the game to bring about the sort of serendipity, adventure and feel back. I really believe that. Anyway, I remember in 2016 I came back with so much enthusiasm and it did a lot for me, emotionally as well. But... it just seems that a miracle would need to happen for something to happen.
People on Twitter:
"Every time we ex-Origin folks try to resurrect an old Origin property for a new platform, we run into the same problem. No one at EA knows what we are talking about, and don't care enough to find out."
Link:
Sad.
People on Twitter:
"Every time we ex-Origin folks try to resurrect an old Origin property for a new platform, we run into the same problem. No one at EA knows what we are talking about, and don't care enough to find out."
Link:
Sad.
Do you have transcript of said leaked info?
DreadLord Lestat
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Did a little thread clean up. Please keep posts on topic or take them to unleashed.
Not sure if thread is satire or another bashing thread...
But, Ultima is fun enough to keep be coming back time and time again. Started in 99. Still here. Sometimes were way better than others but this game has a ton of stuff you can do!
Best times ever were pre pub 16 with pvp. Loved that. But I will say pub 16 brought everyone out, and at the beginning it was soooo much fun. When they introduced factions, was probably in my opinion, some of the best gaming Ive ever been involved in. I miss those days so much!
But, Ultima is fun enough to keep be coming back time and time again. Started in 99. Still here. Sometimes were way better than others but this game has a ton of stuff you can do!
Best times ever were pre pub 16 with pvp. Loved that. But I will say pub 16 brought everyone out, and at the beginning it was soooo much fun. When they introduced factions, was probably in my opinion, some of the best gaming Ive ever been involved in. I miss those days so much!
I have been playing since 1998. I would have started in 1997 but my computer was to willa wonkie and I had to wait till I had the cash to buy a new computer. I love Ultima Online and can never get bored playing. There are so many things I still haven't done in UO.
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Same here Sandman. There is always something to do in UO. Being retired I have lots of time, and UO fills in the I'm bored feeling.
Besides that, Queen Mum would BOP me with her marble rolling pin if I left the game completely.
Phantasmagorian
Sage
Well, it's my thread and it's not at all meant as satire.
DreadLord Lestat
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I have been playing since 2000. I always come back, can't say the same for games like WoW and others. My favorite times were pre-AOS but I have enjoyed the expansions as well.
Phantasmagorian
Sage
I think out of some of my favorite games, Ultima Online has the strongest and deepest memories. Nothing can beat it. It was absolutely magic for me. I was a teen, I was depressed, skipping school... and here was this world where I could speak archaic English, non-ironically, go on adventures, explore a world... become enwrapped in dynamically evolving "quests" that just came to be due to the awesome sandbox game design... I remember becoming a member of a militia hunting PKs in the early days. Man, it was amazing...
...I personally got griefed on by reds, like mining in Minoc or outside of Britain, or being chased outside of Moonglow,...or my first house at the swamp east of Brit... but the thrill was something else.. I joined a militia for a short time on Great Lakes and we communicated through ICQ,.. letting each other know where a PK was potted...epic stuff.
Everquest, Asheron's Call, World of Warcraft,...nothing ever came close. Nothing.
...I personally got griefed on by reds, like mining in Minoc or outside of Britain, or being chased outside of Moonglow,...or my first house at the swamp east of Brit... but the thrill was something else.. I joined a militia for a short time on Great Lakes and we communicated through ICQ,.. letting each other know where a PK was potted...epic stuff.
Everquest, Asheron's Call, World of Warcraft,...nothing ever came close. Nothing.
Not sure I would have put it quite like that, I’m sure there are internal issues with Broadsword and EA that may be driving some of these decisions. However, that being said, the issues with UO are for the most part NOT due to anything in game. Everything can be brought back to poor leadership and communication.
Nineteen years I’ve been doing very similar work, the last eight in a Director role. It is very clear that whatever Messena’s strengths may be, leadership is not one of them. She may have been great at QA and QA management but a subject matter expert does not a good leader make. This is a common mistake in software development, that person that’s been here the long and shows an extreme amount of knowledge in the product is put in the driver’s seat. That seat is a completely different ball game.
It's not the ideas people have issue with but rather the terrible communication and attitude.
Tell me in some level of detail how blacksmithing works on NL? You can't (I'm sure you're in the beta given your relationship with messena) using only official released information. So now everyone is getting their own ideas of how the perfect system should work and once they actually do find out the real deal it doesn't meet expectations. Now they're mad because OMG this system is bad.
How to manage this type of communication is software product owner 101 and it's extremely lacking in UO
Phantasmagorian
Sage
I couldn't resist. Paid for one of my accounts and placed a log cabin. ) Hope to get a tower one day again.
) Hope to get a tower one day again.Maybe I don't know too much, but cannot see what all the huffing and puffing is all about. I come from an era when MMOs had a "dungeon master" who controlled the game, and absolutely wanted the changes to the new versions to be a surprise, and let the players solve the riddle. It is part of the game. What I am (?mis?)perceiving here is an intense anxiety about the "next version", agonising intensely and at times offensively about it, mud-slinging on the "DM" and each other frequently, and whomever dares take sides with the development team. Take it a different way : First of all and most importantly, it is just a digital video game, quit being so serious and anxious about it. Then, they have the right to do whatever they want with the game, as silly as it may be or as tough. The tougher the better. The sillier the better. Who gives a flying monkey's ***?
Just enjoy what comes up next, EJ, BJ, High Seas etc. Wait for it, its around the corner anyways. Most importantly have fun with the game!
Just enjoy what comes up next, EJ, BJ, High Seas etc. Wait for it, its around the corner anyways. Most importantly have fun with the game!
@mihali Unfortunately, there is a huge problem... Mesanna has a very narcissistic personality. So she burned a lot of bridges and good wills. She also made terrible choices for the game. As a result, these days people are very anxious to jump on the pitch fork wagon to lynch the devs/mesanna. I am one of those people.
I don't think EA or any affiliates will ever forget being sued by volunteers to get paid.
Nobody is saying that they can’t have secrets. We don’t need to know the storyline just that there will be one and the teaser. We don’t need to know every detail of how skills synergize, just demos or a high level outline of what to expect. Go back and look at your ”era when MMOs had a...” and you’ll see that even old school MMO’s that were a paid service had a roadmap of things to come and some level of communication from the development team.
What there is anxiety about is two fold. First, there has been almost no updates to the production shards since NL was announced. The development team has a history of failing to deliver on promises made (this is mainly due to not providing realistic roadmap and high level goals for those promises) and they have made a TON of promises when it comes to NL with almost zero communication or demos regarding work completed. Additionally, the product owner repeatedly shown her true feelings for the average player unless they have their nose up her backside.
Now add into leaked information that indicates that NL is a mess. We’ve seen nothing at all of NL and now the people who are supposedly testing it have said “yep, you guys were right to be concerned. It’s bad.” I’d take that with a grain of salt, but given what we’ve seen from the team in the past… they need to do some demo’s and deep dives stat or the NL launch is going to be a disaster. The PR bus is already set to run them over unless they can do damage control and damage control requires communication.
Secondly, there is a section of the player base that feels anyone voicing an expectation of communication regarding the state and roadmap of the game that they pay for should be burned at the stake for not being satisfied that Ultima Online can’t even meet the basics of communcation set by unofficial counterparts. We’re not even talking the level of communcation of other small team MMO’s such as Fallout76, but rather three guys in a basement running an emulator in their off hours. Much like American politics, the more one side moves to the right the more the otherside move to the left - that’s what you’re seeing here. The more some people defend the current producer, the more the people who don’t feel they are being herd yell louder.
Seeing a theme here, yet? It’s not the game itself.
You are correct here, they get to do whatever they want to the game. It’s NOT about the game itself but rather how the playerbase and community has been treated by the current program runner when they have other options on where to spend their money. This is software as a service 101 on how to keep and grow your user base and the current product owner doesn’t understand that.
You’re missing the entire reason why a decent portion of the player base are frustrated.
If I could only so articulately express this 100000000% right on the money
Agreed - well said @Veldrane
Well, the actual grammar was garbage since that’s a phone post but I think everyone gets the gist.