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TONS OF IDOCS - OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS

Effort

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Seer/Volunteer/EM/Old-magically-not-falling houses are decaying right now, and will be going idoc right now and over the next few days. 100s and 100s of houses. I'll post maps and coords in this thread within the next hour or so, so anyone who isn't aware can have some fun.

And if you get anything old, bugged, 'unique' looking, or insanely good, let me know I'll pay the most :*
 

Norrar

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Or people can message GMs and Mesanna so that hopefully this can get fixed and these houses can get restored properly.

Keep shard history on their proper shards.
 

Dryzzid of Atlantic

Lore Master
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Or people can message GMs and Mesanna so that hopefully this can get fixed and these houses can get restored properly.

Keep shard history on their proper shards.
We tried to save West Yew University on Atlantic. There was nothing of value inside, it was illegally placed and couldn't be replaced, no possible housing land was impacted by its existence, and it was there since 1997 or 1998. We asked that she take ownership and hold it perpetually as a landmark. We were firmly told no. So screw it, give me the loots.
 
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Effort

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Legends
1050,1380


Atlantic
1405,2830
1015,1852
798,841
1449,2335
4115,3753
1698,3392
1117,1120

1467,238
1786,530
703,1250

Chesapeake
2396,3394
848,2273

Drachenfels
2288,1122

Europa
1053,360
1990,1125

913,1067

Great Lakes
948,1668
1273,531
930,1672

937,557
1875,1327
1102,161

Lake Superior
941,1668
2215,3376
1412,747

2222,1261
1110,645


Napa Valley
3925,416
1227,1493

Pacific
781,1969

Sonoma
1506,2753

Formosa
1583,1453

Sakura
1826,3441
 

Effort

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Current list updated , those are coords and a map pic. I think we currently run a larger risk of these things being deleted by people not realizing what's happening then the concern of 'we should keep it on it's shard', though I do hope at the end of this we can try and get the old stuff that's shard specific where it belongs.
 

Melchiah

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Loads of the EU ones had fallen already by lunchtime, and there's only one that I've found that's still to fall. Fel Castle, so that's one to be avoided I think!
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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Stratics Legend
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Been to a few. Lots of junk. But thanks for the coords!
 

jack flash uk

Crazed Zealot
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Any reason for this mass of idocs?
Devs messed up again as they have no idea what they are doing and all old protected houses have fallen victim to stupidity...That about right?

New crappy idoc changes broke the safety protocols for Seer/Councillor houses or they just have no idea it was ongoing to happen
 

Captn Norrington

Stratics Forum Moderator
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Devs messed up again as they have no idea what they are doing and all old protected houses have fallen victim to stupidity...That about right?

New crappy idoc changes broke the safety protocols for Seer/Councillor houses or they just have no idea it was ongoing to happen
Neither. It was done on purpose, all these houses are supposed to be falling. There's nothing accidental about it. Most of the house owners haven't even played UO in 10+ years. All the free former staff member accounts have been deactivated so their houses are falling too.
 

Promathia

Social Distancing Since '97
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Neither. It was done on purpose, all these houses are supposed to be falling. There's nothing accidental about it. Most of the house owners haven't even played UO in 10+ years. All the free former staff member accounts have been deactivated so their houses are falling too.
I know one of my friends had an account like this. They emailed him back in April stating they were doing some kind of audit on old accounts and removing their status + letting him know he now either needed to add a sub or wait for it to turn EJ.

I will say, its kind of insane that there were this many houses like this and makes me wonder just how many people had accounts they never had to pay for.
 

Draza

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
there is one in 13 minutes on atl, another in less than 2 hours
 

Dot_Warner

Grand Inquisitor
Governor
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
While planned, the loss to each shard's history is unforgivable. I'm certain something could have been done, specifically for the known, officially blessed houses. I don't particularly care about the personal houses owned by old "staff" which holds no historical value beyond what they may have illicitly squirreled away in them.

However, I must say that karma is viciously biting away as stuff too heavy for players to move plops into player packs and causes them grief. Especially if it's something exciting like a 2-story statue that a GM has to rip away with nothing in return but a shrug (I've heard that story twice now from two different people!).

Might as well get a 50 gallon tub of popcorn, the poopshow is just getting started.
 

Draza

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Old em houses are still around.
Some from 07, and 12 on napa.
I have been worried about those.
 

Uriah Heep

Grand Poobah
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
While planned, the loss to each shard's history is unforgivable. I'm certain something could have been done, specifically for the known, officially blessed houses
We don't need no history!! Haven't you heard? UO is about to have it's biggest audience ever, and the vague "upcoming announcement" will prove that. *eyeroll*

Actually I really believe Mesanna is eliminating everything from the past, as she has been doing for a couple of years with changing everything in the game, and making this game her own playground. We are all just financing Mesanna's personal SIMS game. Everything that has ever made UO, UO, and great, is being erased.
 

jack flash uk

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We don't need no history!! Haven't you heard? UO is about to have it's biggest audience ever, and the vague "upcoming announcement" will prove that. *eyeroll*

Actually I really believe Mesanna is eliminating everything from the past, as she has been doing for a couple of years with changing everything in the game, and making this game her own playground. We are all just financing Mesanna's personal SIMS game. Everything that has ever made UO, UO, and great, is being erased.
Agreed, with some sadness and much anger
 

Cyrah

Certifiable
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Stratics Legend
I saw the virtue tiles building in Britain. How long have the tiles been changed? They look tiny. Is this her doing? Do they look better to you guys? Not to me. As far as dropping houses no one used. I am fine with that but historic stuff no. We have room on all shards save one for houses. Maybe it was too difficult to save the historic ones.
 

WarderDragon

Babbling Loonie
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Stratics Legend
I wish there was a more concentrated effort to preserve historical landmarks. I'm not going to jump on the offended bandwagon, I don't believe the developers intentions are bad or wrong, but I wish protecting the games history was a bit higher on their radar.

It is neat to come across buildings that were visited by figures such as Lord British and have been frequented since the games launch. I've seen way too many of these fall on Baja and Chesapeake over the years.
 

ShriNayne

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I can see both sides of this, on the one hand we have probably some very old and much-loved buildings which have been around forever and that are important to people but on the other hand we have some kind of 'audit' removing very old and unused houses/accounts.
It seems that all this has come about because of this big announcement that still hasn't happened. It hasn't been mentioned that it is to do with it, but the timing seems to be about right.
So are they removing these old houses in anticipation of some massive influx of players? I just can't see that happening.
If there had been any communication with players before this happened then people could have asked for a few of those loved buildings to be preserved, but communication is not their strong point and as usual everything has to be a big secret and we are all still in the dark.
 

Merlin

The Enchanter
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If what has been said is true - that some of these houses have been sitting inactive for 10+ years - then it's out with the old and in with the new. It's sad to see some of this history lost, but at the same time, you need to make room for new history to be made. While it may be cool to come across a landmark that Lord British visited two decades ago, every single one of these buildings cannot be kept up in perpetuity on accounts that do not contribute to revenue to Broadsword's bottom line.

However, I do agree with the sentiment that Broadsword and the devs could have handled this differently. The optics of all of these dropping around the same time is not very good. Perhaps they could have held some type of raffle or event to give these away to active players who could then preserve/update them on active paying accounts? Problem there is that then the developers would have been accused of playing favorites or some other fiasco. There is really no good solution here that would have made everyone happy, so a fresh restart by dropping the houses may have been the path of least resistance and effort.
 

Dryzzid of Atlantic

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My views are starting to evolve on this - for a couple of reasons. It really does break my heart a little to see what I call "historic" houses fall. Atlantic lost West Yew University on Monday. It was one of those "helped newbies out in the early days" places that I'm sure most shards had and it was very special to the few of us left who remember what it was. To be clear, I didn't even play when it was operating - Tram killed WYU and I started about 2 months before Tram housing went live, facet existed but couldn't place houses - but it was revered to such a degree by my peers at the time that I adopted that point of view for myself: it was a special place to be honored and remembered.

However, it's sat unused for 20 years - its only real purpose during that time was being a small reminder to a select few of a forgotten time. The original guild is long, long gone. The account that it was held on was either intended to be closed when the volunteer program was ended or it was never intended to be a free account in the first place - a lot of shady things have happened over the years as evidenced by the other thread floating around about the contents of the Drachs castle IDOC. For Mesanna to go through all this mess and sort out what was legit and what was not ... well, I'll just say I wouldn't want to deal with that mess, so I wouldn't envy anyone who undertook that task. I won't judge her for not wanting to wade into that river of poo.

So at this point I just remain grateful that those buildings stood for so long. I am upset that they are gone but I played IDOC roulette with a group of friends and we were able to save the majority of items with any historical relevance (a very subjective phrase, let's be honest) to Atlantic including most, if not all player written books in the WYU. From my experience a good portion of the IDOC crowd - including the Fel pvpers (big shout out to the folks from D|X who donated books/sold us a guild stone relatively cheap) - are understanding when it comes to those types of items, especially since they have no value otherwise.

Now the historical preservation continues in other forms, at least on Atlantic. The Atlantic Repertory (2 houses West from Goodman's along the wall) houses literally thousands of player written books from the RP community from 1997 through 2015. Using uh.. "tools", we pulled all the text from all of those books to text files which are available on the old ARPC forums, so if the servers go down those stories will live on. The first floor houses seer and EM items relevant to Atlantic history and guild stones from old Atlantic guilds. It's just like real life.. we hang on to bits and pieces of what we can but eventually it all fades away.
 

Basara

UO Forum Moderator
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I saw the virtue tiles building in Britain. How long have the tiles been changed? They look tiny. Is this her doing? Do they look better to you guys? Not to me. As far as dropping houses no one used. I am fine with that but historic stuff no. We have room on all shards save one for houses. Maybe it was too difficult to save the historic ones.
Uh, the Fellowship event last winter? The tiles were blocked, and a fellowship house built on top of it, until the Fellowship was driven off. Parts of that (the seals on the virtue tiles) still remain from that event.
 

DanteSignas

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's a game and a business. If there are no paying accounts attached to the homes then they should be dropped. History is swell and all but let's be perfectly honest. This game could shut down tomorrow and make these "historic" places moot anyway. The idea of saving "history" for a handful of players to reminisce about seems silly to me. This game needs to evolve sometime and move forward. These spaces should be open to paying customers, not left to waste space for the sake of digital nostalgia. Just my 2 cents.
 

Angel of Sonoma

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... a lot of shady things have happened over the years as evidenced by the other thread floating around about the contents of the Drachs castle IDOC.
what thread? i was at a drachs castle idoc yeaterday. i came to the conclusion the castle was a seer or blessed house and was sad to see it decay.

there was a group of about 6-8 members of a guild killing everyone on sight. i assume these were local players or hope they were, so they could keep some of the historical items on the shard instead of going to atlantic.

i managed to get a "hole" (a tile that weighed 2 stones with a black hole in the middle). it was stuck in my backpack and couldn't be moved. this morning i logged in and it was gone.
 

Maldar

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I will say, its kind of insane that there were this many houses like this and makes me wonder just how many people had accounts they never had to pay for.
I had a buddy back in the early years that didn't have to pay for his account. He never figured out why. He played free for about 8 years before he quit and went to W.O.W.
 

Dryzzid of Atlantic

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what thread? i was at a drachs castle idoc yeaterday. i came to the conclusion the castle was a seer or blessed house and was sad to see it decay.

there was a group of about 6-8 members of a guild killing everyone on sight. i assume these were local players or hope they were, so they could keep some of the historical items on the shard instead of going to atlantic.

i managed to get a "hole" (a tile that weighed 2 stones with a black hole in the middle). it was stuck in my backpack and couldn't be moved. this morning i logged in and it was gone.
 

Rune Artisem

Visitor
I will say, its kind of insane that there were this many houses like this and makes me wonder just how many people had accounts they never had to pay for.
Most of these accounts were made free as part of the settlement regarding the termination of the volunteer program in the very early 2000s. However, I know that not all of the accounts stuck with the original person they were issued to. A friend of mine, who I still talk to, was given one of these accounts from its original owner, someone who I believe was either a seer or troubadour. My friend was never part of the volunteer program in any way, but nonetheless this did not stop someone with an account from giving her the account info and telling her to "do as you like" with it. This friend also lived with me briefly from 2002 until 2004 and I remember she showed me the account information; there was definitely an expiration date, but it was so far into the future that it seemed like "free for life" because no one thought UO would last this long. Whether that expiration date was naturally reached or not, I don't know - I don't remember the specific date the one time she showed me the account management info.

My friends house on this free account fell Monday morning, about half an hour after the server came up. She hadn't played UO at all since 2012 (up until then, she also had two paid accounts that she had maintained since the late 90s) and had no interest in returning - when I told her that her house fell, her response, with a chuckle, was telling me she hoped I got something good from the collapse. While this person is someone I remain close to, it's good for the health of the game that her house fell because it allows someone who is paying to take the space. She should not have had the account in the first place, but did because OSI/EA put so little safeguards in place to begin with. So I don't fault Broadsword for ending these accounts. The only thing I wish they would have done differently was to have notified the accounts that their free time was up, giving them the option to turn them into paid accounts going forward. My understanding is that did not happen.

As for maintaining historical buildings... Well, it suffices to say that I've been paying for one account (which is not even close to being my main account with my personal house) for eight years now to keep a historical building up for the community so I think that makes my position clear there.
 

dvv

Seasoned Veteran
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UNLEASHED
I see it as being similar to the world outside of the game. Buildings are created, people interact with them, memories are created, time passes, things happen, and some buildings are left to rot. It’s sad but eventually things need to go to make room for new structures where new interactions and memories can be created. It’s comparable to our actual world for better or worse.

That being said, I also agree it could have been handled differently.
 

BrianFreud

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I've heard from a few people who have found interesting items in a few of these, items that didn't delete like the hole mentioned above. If anyone finds anything unusual that's not mentioned in the wiki already, please pm me details. :)
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
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i can only wish they are doing this to make room for us to be able to place 2 houses per accounts lol
 

Chap

Babbling Loonie
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Stratics Legend
I consider this as phase 2.

Phase 1: Take control of IDOCs, pack things into barrels and delete the unwanted stuff. (illegal items, dupes, massive amount of resources etc, whatever might spawn in an idoc, well not anymore!)

Phase 2: Take control over the accounts, old em, seers, gm, blessed account and houses. Remember some years ago the discussion some players might have had access to accounts that could walk inside idocs before they fell? well Consider that stuff sorted once and for all. And from now on everybody pays to play.

Phase 3: Take control over the copy right issues, remember there are freeshards with hundreds if not thousands of players, if only 10% of those played official shard it would mean millions in revenues each year.

Phase 4: Unleach the steam beast and marketing department, "biggest audience ever".

Final note, Many fine houses with memmories fell across the shards, I feel sorry for this. Being a 21year vet Id like to see these places remain forever, frozen in time with its items, yet awaken to new magic moments once the population increases. Unfortunately these phases were necessary for them to take control, but we can all create new history and moments in future.
 

Xare

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They effectively can't take control of the copy right issues at this point I believe. My (uneducated) understanding is that you have to defend the copy right, otherwise you're basically permitting it to be used. Since they spent 20+ years not defending it, it'd be very hard to argue in a court that they now want to defend it. Very first question will be "why didn't you do anything before now"
 

Rune Artisem

Visitor
Broadsword and its parent company Electronic Arts own the Ultima IP. It would be fair and within their rights to send cease and desist letters to all the people running freeshards (I've never understood why they have never done this though - it isn't hard or costly to send a cease and desist letter). EA could then easily overpower those freeshard owners in court through lawyers and money. Blizzard did the same thing with classic WoW servers and it was an easy victory for them to shut those down.
 

Fridgster

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Well I can tell you for certain that not all of the seer accounts were closed.
 

Cyrah

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Well Basara I thought the Fellowship house was located closer to the water. Where we turned in items. No??? My bad, the tiny tiles remain though. :( Thank you so much for explaining it to me so kindly.:spider:
 
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Basara

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Well Basara I thought the Fellowship house was located closer to the water. Where we turned in items. No??? My bad, the tiny tiles remain though. :( Thank you so much for explaining it to me so kindly.:spider:
Different Fellowship house. They built, effectively, a huge Gothic-style CHURCH on top of the Shrine place, where you had to go up, through the church, and down steps, to get to the tile area. On many shards, the structure was altered that way for a month or more, but walled off (though you could teleport to parts of the new roof, then walk off to get to the steps), before it was used in a VERY short term event, then torn down (as in, I missed a couple of days, and it went from being sealed off, to GONE).

This is me standing on the roof, on VeteransDay 2019.

Screenshot 2019-11-11 21.26.42.png
 

Keven2002

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By the engineer in any town (near the docs typically). You just walk past and he shouts "Royal engineers have spotted a house in danger of collapsing at (coordinates)". Typically says something like "forest west of minoc" or "malas" etc so you have an idea where to look. Then you just grab a sexant and head to that location. I believe the full details would be found in publish 108 release notes (Publish 108 – Ultima Online)
 

Draza

Lore Master
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UNLEASHED
Different Fellowship house. They built, effectively, a huge Gothic-style CHURCH on top of the Shrine place, where you had to go up, through the church, and down steps, to get to the tile area. On many shards, the structure was altered that way for a month or more, but walled off (though you could teleport to parts of the new roof, then walk off to get to the steps), before it was used in a VERY short term event, then torn down (as in, I missed a couple of days, and it went from being sealed off, to GONE).

This is me standing on the roof, on VeteransDay 2019.

View attachment 110562
I missed that entire thing then. What month did that happen?
 

Ghost of Gramps

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By the engineer in any town (near the docs typically). You just walk past and he shouts "Royal engineers have spotted a house in danger of collapsing at (coordinates)". Typically says something like "forest west of minoc" or "malas" etc so you have an idea where to look. Then you just grab a sexant and head to that location. I believe the full details would be found in publish 108 release notes (Publish 108 – Ultima Online)
Thank you very much. I better go back and read through that more carefully.
 

Basara

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I missed that entire thing then. What month did that happen?
November, up through the resolution of the Fellowship events. I missed the actual resolution event, myself.
 

Draza

Lore Master
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UNLEASHED
I noticed the tiles changed, but i didnt think i wasnt playing in nov. Huh. Right on
 

Luc of Legends

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They effectively can't take control of the copy right issues at this point I believe. My (uneducated) understanding is that you have to defend the copy right, otherwise you're basically permitting it to be used. Since they spent 20+ years not defending it, it'd be very hard to argue in a court that they now want to defend it. Very first question will be "why didn't you do anything before now"
Okay, I can answer this as I learned it one of my classes when I was working on my B.S. IT Network Administration. Back when UO launched in the early days of the internet, there were NO digital copyright laws. That didn't come into existence until 1998, The thing with establishing case law AKA precedence is NO ONE wants to be the ground breaker. The reason being is that you could spend a lot of time and money only to lose in court. So I believe that UO/EA took the easy way out and did nothing.
 

petemage

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Okay, I can answer this as I learned it one of my classes when I was working on my B.S. IT Network Administration. Back when UO launched in the early days of the internet, there were NO digital copyright laws. That didn't come into existence until 1998, The thing with establishing case law AKA precedence is NO ONE wants to be the ground breaker. The reason being is that you could spend a lot of time and money only to lose in court. So I believe that UO/EA took the easy way out and did nothing.
IT administrators make for the best forum lawyers xD

In 1974, the Commission on New Technological Uses of Copyrighted Works (CONTU) was established. CONTU decided that "computer programs, to the extent that they embody an author's original creation, are proper subject matter of copyright."[16][15] In 1980, the United States Congress added the definition of "computer program" to 17 U.S.C. § 101 and amended 17 U.S.C. § 117 to allow the owner of the program to make another copy or adaptation for use on a computer.[17]

This legislation, plus court decisions such as Apple v. Franklin in 1983 clarified that the Copyright Act gave computer programs the copyright status of literary works. Many companies began to claim that they "licensed" but did not sell their products, in order to avoid the transfer of rights to the end-user via the doctrine of first sale (see Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology). These software license agreements are often labeled as end-user license agreements (EULAs). Another impact of the decision was the rise of the shrink-wrap closed source business model, where before a source code driven software distribution schema dominated.[18][19]

In 1998, The United States Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) which criminalizes evasion of copy protection (with certain exceptions), destruction or mismanagement of copyright management information, but includes a clause to exempt ISPs from liability of infringement if one of their subscribers infringes. In addition, the DMCA extends protection to those who copy a program for maintenance, repair or backup as long as these copies are "destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful."17 U.S.C. § 117
 
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