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[Stinky Pete]

I do have chars on siege, my number one issue there is that everyone ELSE has that problem lol. Never see a soul without hiding/stealth just traveling around in the shadows. Please tell me more though

Hiding/stealth is a defensive skill for PvM characters on Siege. Do you expect them to walk around defenseless? You can invest in tracking/detect to combat this if killing PvM players is your goal. There are plenty of PvPers there that don't use stealth. But you're right, if everyone who uses the excuse, "there is nobody to fight on Siege" were to actually play there, there would be a ton of people to fight. The prodo PvP crowd always cries about not having anything to fight over, then uses every excuse they can to avoid the one place where they could have something to fight over. How's that for an amazing case study?

 

[Uriah Heep]

Let me ask you this - do alot of people go pvm without hoping to achieve something?

Yes.

Our EM events. Are you one of those who only show up on drop night? lol
quite a few events with no drop, and we know ahead of time and go anyway

 

[Merus]

what we need is a reason to have a community again... reasons to work as a group and a team... a reason to join a party or a guild. Right now there really aren't any.

The sense of danger that old UO had was the single biggest (not the only) reason to be part of a community. Having a guild meant hunting partners, groups to mitigate the risk, friends to res you when you got in over your head. I know you're big into RP, and that had it place as well... but the old saying.. safety in numbers was the driving force behind much of what community UO used to have.

 

[MalagAste]

The sense of danger that old UO had was the single biggest (not the only) reason to be part of a community. Having a guild meant hunting partners, groups to mitigate the risk, friends to res you when you got in over your head. I know you're big into RP, and that had it place as well... but the old saying.. safety in numbers was the driving force behind much of what community UO used to have.

When I started in UO it was TRAMMEL... No fel only BS... it was about being in a group because no one I knew could take on a Dragon by themselves... You needed a guild or a group to enter many of the dungeons ... otherwise you were toast. And all that was PvM.... and it was FUN... we didn't cheat or hack... we had fun.

Back in the Fel only days it was NOT fun... not for most to have everything they worked for taken often by some cheating low life. That wasn't fun and it was killing UO which is why we now have TRAMMEL also why every single new expansion since is based on TRAMMEL rules... Not Fel...

You all can argue that till the cows come home but what it boils down to is that's not what people want at all...

Have your Order/Chaos for all I care... strip anyone in Order/Chaos of all their ability to insure their stuff... and let them fight everywhere... and then sit back and listen to all the crying and whining about cheating and everything else that we KNOW will happen... and you'll very soon find 2 people left in it... and the DEVs will wonder why they wasted any time and effort on it. I think they know better than to waste time on it just watching and seeing the 100's of posts here, on Discord and Youtube showcasing the hacks daily...

I'd prefer they didn't waste anyone's time on that.


When you all get serious about playing the actual game without all your cheats then come talk to the DEVs about fixing some of your problems... Until then keep crying...

 

[Basara]

4 weeks ago, I decided to finally give in and try to do the Fellowship thing.

It took me only FIVE DAYS at 4-8 hours of sailing, fighting beacons, pirates and human-crewed merchants SOLO to get to the point of receiving coins. Every one I know that concentrated on just pirates, or just beacons, or just those two (bypassing the soulbound merchants) were having trouble making the mark with twice as much time invested (and, if you don't care about your karma, you can do the gargoyles too, because they stayed blue when the human crew merchants went red). And, merchant ships are loaded for stuff I'll need for the artisan festival, and can have up to 9 cargo on them (plus drops from the crew), that I've seen.

It's not really that hard - you just have to have 50 or more shots for a cannon to start, and (if you want to collect the souls) soulbinders for the other reward - you'll got most of your ammo back from each ship, only needing to replace stuff expended on beacons. Don't drop the mythic chests at the fellowship once you start getting coins - save them for the pirate in Bucs - as it's 1 coin per chest regardless of value. I stopped getting coins after about 50, and went back to the pirate to start trying to get a ship plaque for my character, saving cargo for the 3 cities below 300 million funds to donate to them (I'm considerate towards my fellow governors).

 

[Merus]

When I started in UO it was TRAMMEL... No fel only BS... it was about being in a group because no one I knew could take on a Dragon by themselves... You needed a guild or a group to enter many of the dungeons ... otherwise you were toast. And all that was PvM.... and it was FUN... we didn't cheat or hack... we had fun.

Back in the Fel only days it was NOT fun... not for most to have everything they worked for taken often by some cheating low life. That wasn't fun and it was killing UO which is why we now have TRAMMEL also why every single new expansion since is based on TRAMMEL rules... Not Fel...

You all can argue that till the cows come home but what it boils down to is that's not what people want at all...

Have your Order/Chaos for all I care... strip anyone in Order/Chaos of all their ability to insure their stuff... and let them fight everywhere... and then sit back and listen to all the crying and whining about cheating and everything else that we KNOW will happen... and you'll very soon find 2 people left in it... and the DEVs will wonder why they wasted any time and effort on it. I think they know better than to waste time on it just watching and seeing the 100's of posts here, on Discord and Youtube showcasing the hacks daily...

I'd prefer they didn't waste anyone's time on that.


When you all get serious about playing the actual game without all your cheats then come talk to the DEVs about fixing some of your problems... Until then keep crying...

I find it interesting that you have an opinion about how UO was before you ever played it. That's kinda telling. UO had far more subscriptions back in its Fel only days that it does now, probably more than it has had in many many many years, so the idea that the Tram only ruleset and expansions have been good for UO overall is pretty debatable.

Was there a change that was needed to provide areas of the game that could be played with less interference from other players, sure there was. But the separation of Tram and Fel was an absolutely horrible "fix".

But regardless of your opinion on PvP, UO has lost its sense of adventure and risk... THAT is why UO has lost most of its sense of community. There are many other reasons this game has become more focused on the individual, namely the itemization of loot. But the truth is, there is NO valid reason to need to hunt with anyone else nowdays except to pass the time.

 

[MalagAste]

I find it interesting that you have an opinion about how UO was before you ever played it. That's kinda telling. UO had far more subscriptions back in its Fel only days that it does now, probably more than it has had in many many many years, so the idea that the Tram only ruleset and expansions have been good for UO overall is pretty debatable.

Was there a change that was needed to provide areas of the game that could be played with less interference from other players, sure there was. But the separation of Tram and Fel was an absolutely horrible "fix".

But regardless of your opinion on PvP, UO has lost its sense of adventure and risk... THAT is why UO has lost most of its sense of community. There are many other reasons this game has become more focused on the individual, namely the itemization of loot. But the truth is, there is NO valid reason to need to hunt with anyone else nowdays except to pass the time.

It has been PROVEN time and time again that subscriptions PEAKED after Trammel... The reason they didn't before was the inflow of players was matching the outflow which was DRAMATIC... which was concerning for the DEVs hence the advent of Trammel which caused the numbers to increase over time FASTER than the decrease... Wasn't until WoW and EQ2 that numbers radically started to decline and not come back. Nothing UO did after that has brought back very many numbers save the current EJ (though not for a lack of trying)...

I NEVER felt that I wasn't having an "Adventure" or that the land was without "risk" while playing UO... I've always enjoyed Trammel and PvM... Just because there isn't a risk of getting PK'd... doesn't mean it isn't FUN... Believe it or not, loads of people do NOT like being PK'd... don't find it fun... don't find it enjoyable and certainly do not care for it. I see nothing wrong with "dueling"... pitting yourself against another player be it in an arena or not... fighting for control of something one group against another... or what have you there... but when you are minding your own business working hard at gathering resources, or fighting mobs... most sane folk don't care to have to also watch out for some narcissist who thinks it's "fun" to come and kill you just because and take your stuff. That to me is NOT fun... I did nothing to them... Now I can see if I was doing something like taking away your spawn when you're grinding somewhere... but when people are minding their own business just enjoying and playing the game and someone comes along and ruins that... it's pretty much is a buzz kill to the game.... for a MAJORITY of players. I guess I have a mentality of morality and kindness to others... I actually enjoy the VIRTUOUS aspect of the game. I don't play Chaos.

While yes it wasn't the Best fix they could have done it was a NECESSARY fix. UO has lost its sense of community. Everyone is so focused on getting stuff they don't want to share or work together anymore because there is no need to... You don't get more benefit from working as a group or team... you don't need to see anyone else in-game for anything at all... not to fix your gear, not to explore a dungeon and not to fight a boss. All you need is a good suit and some lame skill set. Sadly if they tried to add content that you need a "group" to reap more reward it would only at this point increase those who multiclient and multi-box... which we don't need. Many of us already multiclient.

Challenge has been lessened yes... but if they try to put it back you hear whining from people on low population shards with no one to do things with. Which as someone who plays UO in the wee hours... since I work 3rd shift... I can say can suck... often there is hardly anyone around to play with when I'm online. Most everyone is in bed. Now I could go play on some shard where people are awake but then I play at a MASSIVE disadvantage and with horrible lag...

Though the DEVs have tried adding things designed for community support... Like the Artisan Festival... though most don't appreciate the work it takes to fully light a tree. But this IS something that the entire community benefits from. I happen to live on a shard where we have someone who is wonderful to the community and works to light the trees. Without her, we probably wouldn't light as many as we have on GLs.

And finally, as I stated before WHEN PvPers can show they quit with all the cheating hacks they use... THEN we can talk about doing something for them... Until then... I see NO REASON at all that the DEVs should waste their precious time on doing anything for them... Why cater to a bunch of cheaters?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Risk vs. Reward is about the dumbest phrase ever in MMORPGs. Constantly quoted by PvPrs, AKA PKs who can only get satisfaction from the game by griefing and taking from other players who most of which want nothing to do with non-consentual combat or PvP.

What most players want from an MMORPG is PvM content and to solo or play with friends and groups to clear dungeons, complete quests and finish off the boss. Most do want challenge otherwise it just gets boring fast. Add in the community and crafting and in some games housing, you have a complete idea of what most RPGrs want.

UO started as an open world with nearly unlimited non-consentual PvP and it pretty much almost killed the game. Until Everquest came out UO was the only option for this new online genre and thus still thrived even though it lost thousands of players who didn't want to PvP. Not until Trammel did subscriptions significantly increase again peaking after AoS.

Every game that has tried to duplicate what UO had in the beginning has failed at it. Why? Because most players don't want to engage in PvP or any form of non-consentual combat. They don't want to be attacked and killed by other players and they certainly don't want another player to take all their stuff from them. Every game that has tried to expand non-consentual PvP to vast areas has almost immediately realized that more players will quit due to just a small percentage of the players who enjoy attacking other players. The developers of these games then always end up reducing down significantly the areas of non-consentual combat and content in order to keep the majority of players playing instead of quitting.

Risk vs. Reward ingame for most doesn't exist because most players want to PvM/E without losing their stuff and barring any player made errors you shouldn't ever lose your stuff in PvM/E. The only Risk in MMORPGs is from other players coming in and stealing your PvM content and stealing your cursed, non insurable items like power scrolls and such or in the case of a server like Siege looting your gear too. The Risk is what kills most attempts at a good MMORPG.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

The sense of danger that old UO had was the single biggest (not the only) reason to be part of a community. Having a guild meant hunting partners, groups to mitigate the risk, friends to res you when you got in over your head. I know you're big into RP, and that had it place as well... but the old saying.. safety in numbers was the driving force behind much of what community UO used to have.

What I remember is even a couple of PKs out of town would be enough to intimidate an army of blues too scared to venture out of the guard zone. Organized, equipped, experienced and combat efficient blues were few and far between while a few PKs were very good at slaughtering a whole group of blues. I tried a few anti-PK guilds and it was very hard to get and keep everyone organized and disciplined against a force of PKs.

 

[Great DC]

I find it funny that the person speaking for fighting over stuff to get a sense of winning, never leaves yew gate. When they do show up in dungeons they get destroyed in a matter of minutes. PvP will never get better if the game allows these 3rd party programs without repercussion. It wont matter what they add to fel only, there is no real pvpers left, just people who download a way to win.

 

[Merus]

What I remember is even a couple of PKs out of town would be enough to intimidate an army of blues too scared to venture out of the guard zone. Organized, equipped, experienced and combat efficient blues were few and far between while a few PKs were very good at slaughtering a whole group of blues. I tried a few anti-PK guilds and it was very hard to get and keep everyone organized and disciplined against a force of PKs.

We had a very different experience. Far and away the blues would dominate the reds. The guild I was in grew to be the largest blue guild on our shard with over 350 members. (Search OoJ/Napa Valley/Circa 2000) The reds would show up with 5-8... we would easily have 20+. We had community. We depended on each other. We supported each other. Someone would ICQ (or Roger Wilco) that they died or needed help and 40 people would drop what they were doing and show up within seconds.

From where I see UO these days, about the only real solid place that this kind of community still exists is in the PvP realm. Someone says Champ Spawn Raid and people show up expecting to work as a team.

Back then you NEEDed community. Pretty much after Trammel and AoS the need for community vanished. We have been on the slow decline ever since. IMO, you can't really have all 3 in any successful MMO... itemization, no risk of loss, and a vibrant community. What you end up with is a few niche communities going round and round over the same items/content and a whole bunch of solo play.

 

[ShriNayne]

Trammel didn't trigger a mass exodus of players, AoS had a worse effect but that was over a longer period of time, loads of people I knew hated AoS.

 

[Cetric]

Yes.

Our EM events. Are you one of those who only show up on drop night? lol
quite a few events with no drop, and we know ahead of time and go anyway

i dont show up at all, its not my thing

 

[Cetric]

I find it funny that the person speaking for fighting over stuff to get a sense of winning, never leaves yew gate. When they do show up in dungeons they get destroyed in a matter of minutes. PvP will never get better if the game allows these 3rd party programs without repercussion. It wont matter what they add to fel only, there is no real pvpers left, just people who download a way to win.

Got anymore stories to make up? You are the definition of an ignorant player who doesn't know how to pvp so you assume everyone cheated you.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I think we can all agree that MMORPGs evolved from old skool D&D and MUDs.

It's funny though, that I recall years and years of fun amazing gameplay with friends and yet I can't seem to remember a single instance of another player showing up unexpectedly and killing me and taking all my gear. Or showing up at the last minute after a long quest and killing me and finishing off the boss and reaping all the reward.

RPGs survived and thrived just fine without PKs.

 

[MalagAste]

Got anymore stories to make up? You are the definition of an ignorant player who doesn't know how to pvp so you assume everyone cheated you.

Don't have to assume anything just have to look at any pick posted by a PvPer on any forum or in Discord and you can see it for yourself..... it's as obvious as the hair on Trumps head..

 

[Cetric]

Don't have to assume anything just have to look at any pick posted by a PvPer on any forum or in Discord and you can see it for yourself..... it's as obvious as the hair on Trumps head..

why because people modify their art files? lol ya, like thats game breaking. i bet that stump instead of a tree got you killed.

In EC you can see where someones hidden without any changes lol. But you wanna push that and say someones stump tree is a huge problem.

 

[MalagAste]

why because people modify their art files? lol ya, like thats game breaking. i bet that stump instead of a tree got you killed.

In EC you can see where someones hidden without any changes lol. But you wanna push that and say someones stump tree is a huge problem.

IMO anyone who goes and changes art files is doing a lot more than just that... that's just the most obvious ... but go ahead make excuses for it..... but if you are too bothered to see trees and fields... then maybe you should be playing Minecraft and not UO...

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

wow the fel players have turned a thread about a Publish into a big "tram sux' thread i see. not surprising.

 

[Great DC]

why because people modify their art files? lol ya, like thats game breaking. i bet that stump instead of a tree got you killed.

In EC you can see where someones hidden without any changes lol. But you wanna push that and say someones stump tree is a huge problem.

Except in those pictures that's not a normal stump hack, they look like stumps in a legal art change, not like tiles which is a hacked client not art files. But hey I am ignorant and don't know nothing, LOL. Like I said no real contenders just pretenders.

 

[Tyrath]

The biggest thing missing from UO is the sense of danger when you step outside of guard zone. Back in the day the game had that, whether from monster or unpredictable players... nowdays, there is none.

Nope the biggest thing missing is the player base. There are what maybe 5-15 active players per shard with Atlantic being the exception with those 12-15 from all the other shards visiting there