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why power creep may be inevitable & may not be that bad

Anonymous UOPlayer

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Stratics Veteran
simple, really. when people play the same character for years & years they find ways 2 maximize that character's power. better equipment, refined templates, better techniques, etc. there are lots of ways.

this is inevitable. in D&D characters advance in level and, sooner or later, they can challenge powerful beings in the game. that happens here too! it's ok. it's natural. it's the way of things.

no one minds if i call the UO people OSI, do you? I miss calling them that.

anyway....OSI at this point in UO's history has the job of finding ways 2 have higher-level content for higher-level play without erasing all of the lower-end stuff (or without erasing ways for low-level characters 2 reach high level). is it easy? no, but that's the job.

don't be afraid to put stuff in that's temporary as long as you're going to replace it at some point with something else. temporary world bosses (kind of like what you did with krampus which is really cool), random brief invasions ("these super raiders came out of nowhere! we beat them back but where did they come from? they sure dropped some cool stuff!"), etc., are all fine. if we miss an item from temporary content, we can just wait for the next event & we'll have a chance at something else cool.

with all the caps & stuff we have, power creep isn't necessarily bad because at this point all they can really do is offer us more options. there's an upper limit as 2 how powerful a character can become.

SO, OSI....please stop being afraid of coming up with cool rewards and challenging high level content. for rewards, please take a look at what's already available and used and come up with something like that, then give it a cool name, and make it rare but not unobtainable. for content, let the story guide you, and let the players refine it through testing and comments.

deco rewards are great. but when that's all there is? gets old even for players who love deco.
 

Uvtha

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UO long ago doomed itself to power creep with it's itemization choices. Without some form of significant item loss there really can't be much balance without quick stagnation, especially in a game that at this point is, I don't think I'll get much pushback in saying, highly populated by long time (10+ years) die hards. UO isn't like D&D. D&D has a natural system of renewal, playing through one campaign, moving on to the next, with new characters and new ideas ad goals. UO may allow new characters, but it's not a natural cycle like D&D, and all the long time players are still largely playing characters they have been playing for many years, and the goals are all pretty much the same when it comes to gearing, as there's not much viable variety.
As it sits the wall of diminishing returns is tremendously low, and it has rendered most of the games combat related content meaningless. In modern UO you don't really start until you have a fully skilled and geared character and hit the "end game" searching for those elusive pieces in the top 5%. Most hard coded "artifacts" are patently useless and 99% of monsters in the game will never give you a drop you care about, as hand imbued gear which can be made with little effort and tailored directly to your needs will be better than anything but the top end random drops. People have suits that may not be perfect, but they are at that diminishing effectiveness returns threshold that makes the impact of any upgrades all but purely psychological.
That's why I moved to siege when the introduced tram/insurance. The writing was on the wall, and obviously the pay off has been worth it for many, as there are plenty of non gear related things to keep one occupied in the game, but to some, hands on gear hunting is an essential part of game play. Though even on siege with the way the itemization in this game works, it's awfully hard to find good drops on monsters that beat the efficiency of player crafted items. Though if the population of the game had remained healthy I think it would still be a good and fairly sustainable system.

All that said, sure they can add in stuff that people will want. People will go to town over simple rehues, or any drops with tailored basic usefulness with some unique flavor. I honestly wish they had a bit more of a freeform/simplistic approach to adding new content, at least periodically. You CAN give people **** to chase even if it's just a unique color or name or something, without all the tedious quests that are rendered somewhat nonsensical upon repeated undertakings. More Treasures of Tokuno, less Zipactriotl.
 

Stinky Pete

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UO long ago doomed itself to power creep with it's itemization choices. Without some form of significant item loss there really can't be much balance without quick stagnation, especially in a game that at this point is, I don't think I'll get much pushback in saying, highly populated by long time (10+ years) die hards. UO isn't like D&D. D&D has a natural system of renewal, playing through one campaign, moving on to the next, with new characters and new ideas ad goals. UO may allow new characters, but it's not a natural cycle like D&D, and all the long time players are still largely playing characters they have been playing for many years, and the goals are all pretty much the same when it comes to gearing, as there's not much viable variety.
As it sits the wall of diminishing returns is tremendously low, and it has rendered most of the games combat related content meaningless. In modern UO you don't really start until you have a fully skilled and geared character and hit the "end game" searching for those elusive pieces in the top 5%. Most hard coded "artifacts" are patently useless and 99% of monsters in the game will never give you a drop you care about, as hand imbued gear which can be made with little effort and tailored directly to your needs will be better than anything but the top end random drops. People have suits that may not be perfect, but they are at that diminishing effectiveness returns threshold that makes the impact of any upgrades all but purely psychological.
That's why I moved to siege when the introduced tram/insurance. The writing was on the wall, and obviously the pay off has been worth it for many, as there are plenty of non gear related things to keep one occupied in the game, but to some, hands on gear hunting is an essential part of game play. Though even on siege with the way the itemization in this game works, it's awfully hard to find good drops on monsters that beat the efficiency of player crafted items. Though if the population of the game had remained healthy I think it would still be a good and fairly sustainable system.

All that said, sure they can add in stuff that people will want. People will go to town over simple rehues, or any drops with tailored basic usefulness with some unique flavor. I honestly wish they had a bit more of a freeform/simplistic approach to adding new content, at least periodically. You CAN give people **** to chase even if it's just a unique color or name or something, without all the tedious quests that are rendered somewhat nonsensical upon repeated undertakings. More Treasures of Tokuno, less Zipactriotl.
This could be the single smartest thing anyone on Stratics has ever said regarding this topic.
 
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Uvtha

Stratics Legend
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This could be the single smartest thing anyone on Stratics has ever said regarding this topic.
Well, I try... hah.

Feels very nostalgic. I haven't blathered on about UO for too many paragraphs in ages. :p
 

fonsvitae

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
In modern UO you don't really start until you have a fully skilled and geared character and hit the "end game" searching for those elusive pieces in the top 5%.
Totally agree on that and I do remember staring that scenario in the face and that being what to look forward to in my beloved UO experience.

A cool thing about Siege is that, due to the imminent eventuality of loss, it doesn't occur to one to strive for that top 5% gear (except for in some isolated cases): this allows for utilizing gear in the top 30% (a few major & greater magic items coupled w/ assorted artifacts from the global loot often fits the bill nicely). Because these items can make for a decent suit worth the effort of stitching together even though it may only last for so long, this also incentivizes farming lesser content for their procurement.

Siege's limitations allow for areas of the game that would otherwise be ignored to have a notable and continual value; IMHO this brings the depth that the other shards are missing.
 

MalagAste

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Sorry Siege players not missing that aspect in any way shape or form...

But as for some, you are right but IMO UO has NEVER been about gear... it's about community. But then I've always been into the RP aspect of UO which sadly unless you like your RP scripted and put on a timer... is dying in UO. Once upon a time, no one cared about stuff so much and many created their own worlds in UO... full of adventure, intrigue, and rescue ... endless battles of good vs evil... drive the orcs out and what have you... all it needed was a good imagination and a lot of friends and frenemies... and all was well and good. But that got stagnant after a while and frenemies slowly became enemies... tensions rose and drama ensued... and all that fun and folk forgot what it was to imagine... and became nitpicky and started to drive others away... in their pursuit for perfect RP... and what-not but then along came itemization and all and folk started to drift apart seeking that glorified edge in battle... (Lets not forget the dawn of WoW which enticed many people away and all the 100 other games with prettier graphics that have since lured folk away from UO) and eventually communities fell apart... we no longer needed to visit the smithy to get the latest gossip and repair our wares... we didn't need anyone else we could do everything without seeing anyone else...

And then came "rares" and everyone had to have the new hued bobble... now it's all about showing off your bobbles... the essence of the game has been lost... greed has replaced all virtue... that was evident when Magincia fell to ruin. Though IMO it didn't fall without the help of the greedy.

UO has never recovered from that ... it has lost the community that it once had and I don't see it ever returning nor do I see RP rising from the ashes. But that is in part due to many still playing the same beloved characters 20+ years later... and not wanting to start anew... or move.

In my case moving seems an impossibility... even with shields... but a very large part of that is sentiment... not physicality.
 

Uriah Heep

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And then came "rares" and everyone had to have the new hued bobble... now it's all about showing off your bobbles... the essence of the game has been lost... greed has replaced all virtue... that was evident when Magincia fell to ruin. Though IMO it didn't fall without the help of the greedy.

UO has never recovered from that ... it has lost the community that it once had and I don't see it ever returning nor do I see RP rising from the ashes. But that is in part due to many still playing the same beloved characters 20+ years later... and not wanting to start anew... or move.

In my case moving seems an impossibility... even with shields... but a very large part of that is sentiment... not physicality.

Magincia was an awesome event. Loved the rubble. However, myself, as well as most the people I knew, never dreamed that when they told us "You will have a say in rbuilding Magincia" that our input on it would consist of how much we wanted to bid on a parking spot in the great RV park they turned it into.

Dont put Magincia on the players, put it on the devs where it belongs. They could have handled it differently, but took the cheap and easy way out, as always
 

MalagAste

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Magincia was an awesome event. Loved the rubble. However, myself, as well as most the people I knew, never dreamed that when they told us "You will have a say in rbuilding Magincia" that our input on it would consist of how much we wanted to bid on a parking spot in the great RV park they turned it into.

Dont put Magincia on the players, put it on the devs where it belongs. They could have handled it differently, but took the cheap and easy way out, as always
It created a greedy lust to destroy everything there... while the few of us virtuous players struggled to keep the demons out... everyone else delighted in dragging them in to get the "good stuff" ... which is why most of what I picked up was plants.

As for the RV park that it is now it is 100% on the DEVs that monstrosity... I miss the old Magincia... and it destroyed a lot of history. Much of which is irreplaceable. But we are stuck with it now. As well as the 100's of items that are still stuck all over that island on every shard.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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They thought the players would build eye pleasing housing. On small shards its mostly empty.

Cant blame the Devs for what we decide to build. Should they have only let us choose pre built housing?
 

MalagAste

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They thought the players would build eye pleasing housing. On small shards its mostly empty.

Cant blame the Devs for what we decide to build. Should they have only let us choose pre built housing?
No they should have left the city alone... built a new island perhaps... but what they did there is an abomination... I miss the old city.
 

Uriah Heep

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They thought the players would build eye pleasing housing. On small shards its mostly empty.

Cant blame the Devs for what we decide to build. Should they have only let us choose pre built housing?
No. They should have just rebuilt the city to be beautiful as it was originally, with donations from players. And then they take all the trades and npcs, and cram them all into two buildings... Great RP there, yup.

Nope, they dropped the ball on this one, and just threw something together to get rid of it, nothing more nothing less.
 

Lord Arm

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in my opinion, we are powerful enough. the devs nerfed the new loot to 8 mod limit. too late on this one. should of been 7 to 8 mod limit from the beginning of new loot, not 14/16 mods.
I warned/posted that the loot was too good but years later, they changed to 8 mod limit.
where do we go from here?
 

Cetric

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I think they should raise skill caps to 150, spread the skill range appropriately, make power scrolls 120-140 be shard bound, and 150 be account bound.
 

Uvtha

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Sorry Siege players not missing that aspect in any way shape or form...

But as for some, you are right but IMO UO has NEVER been about gear... it's about community. But then I've always been into the RP aspect of UO which sadly unless you like your RP scripted and put on a timer... is dying in UO. Once upon a time, no one cared about stuff so much and many created their own worlds in UO... full of adventure, intrigue, and rescue ... endless battles of good vs evil... drive the orcs out and what have you... all it needed was a good imagination and a lot of friends and frenemies... and all was well and good. But that got stagnant after a while and frenemies slowly became enemies... tensions rose and drama ensued... and all that fun and folk forgot what it was to imagine... and became nitpicky and started to drive others away... in their pursuit for perfect RP... and what-not but then along came itemization and all and folk started to drift apart seeking that glorified edge in battle... (Lets not forget the dawn of WoW which enticed many people away and all the 100 other games with prettier graphics that have since lured folk away from UO) and eventually communities fell apart... we no longer needed to visit the smithy to get the latest gossip and repair our wares... we didn't need anyone else we could do everything without seeing anyone else...

And then came "rares" and everyone had to have the new hued bobble... now it's all about showing off your bobbles... the essence of the game has been lost... greed has replaced all virtue... that was evident when Magincia fell to ruin. Though IMO it didn't fall without the help of the greedy.

UO has never recovered from that ... it has lost the community that it once had and I don't see it ever returning nor do I see RP rising from the ashes. But that is in part due to many still playing the same beloved characters 20+ years later... and not wanting to start anew... or move.

In my case moving seems an impossibility... even with shields... but a very large part of that is sentiment... not physicality.
It was always partially about gear, all rpgs are. Obviously not like it is today, but everyone was out chasing that Silver Indestructible Supremely Accurate Halberd of Vanquishing. There just weren't anywhere near as many pieces of gear or variety of mods of any kind.

I remember the good ole 90's UO too, and it WAS a lot of the things you say (that and rampant griefing heh), but a lot of it was still driven by the seeking/hoarding of treasure. People were just as greedy, and there were always rares. The only thing that's changed is the scope.
 

Uvtha

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Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Magincia was an awesome event. Loved the rubble. However, myself, as well as most the people I knew, never dreamed that when they told us "You will have a say in rbuilding Magincia" that our input on it would consist of how much we wanted to bid on a parking spot in the great RV park they turned it into.

Dont put Magincia on the players, put it on the devs where it belongs. They could have handled it differently, but took the cheap and easy way out, as always
Yeah the event was one of the best, if not THE best event in the history of the game, TONS of content both in terms of experience and new items and mechanics, new universal story that meant something, and pretty good opportunity for everyone to enjoy it.
The rebuild however was very bad. When they put down the sand roads I was like, ahh this must be phase one, soon we'll get to really start rebuilding. Nope. :(
 

Uvtha

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It created a greedy lust to destroy everything there... while the few of us virtuous players struggled to keep the demons out... everyone else delighted in dragging them in to get the "good stuff" ... which is why most of what I picked up was plants.

As for the RV park that it is now it is 100% on the DEVs that monstrosity... I miss the old Magincia... and it destroyed a lot of history. Much of which is irreplaceable. But we are stuck with it now. As well as the 100's of items that are still stuck all over that island on every shard.
I agree about the RV park, but the blowing stuff up aspect was intended. Magincia was never supposed to survive, and I don't think it made anyone any greedier than they already were.
I did miss the old city I must say.
 

Uvtha

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No. They should have just rebuilt the city to be beautiful as it was originally, with donations from players. And then they take all the trades and npcs, and cram them all into two buildings... Great RP there, yup.

Nope, they dropped the ball on this one, and just threw something together to get rid of it, nothing more nothing less.
Indeed. I was expecting an second stage to the event with a similar level of thought put into it as the first part. Wonder if it was just cause Draconi (thats who was the master mind right?) quit/was let go? thereabouts.
 

Uvtha

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I think they should raise skill caps to 150, spread the skill range appropriately, make power scrolls 120-140 be shard bound, and 150 be account bound.
I think you should just be able to set your skills like on test center, with some limitation of course (same as soulstones, gotta be in a safe spot, maybe only once a day or something). Skilling as a meaningful aspect of the game has been dead for over a decade.

The only downside in my mind is the economic loss, as the tools to establish skills (powerscrolls) and mitigate the tedium of raising them (blues and pinks) are one of few items always in demand.
 

Cetric

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i dont necessarily believe 150 skill is the answer lol, its an example though i thought most would get. Pretty much any other mmo, or game in general, over its period of time allows you to advance your characters in some nature. Yes ther eis gear, yes there is add-ons, but the base should change as well and it hasn't in a long time. This could be in the form of abilities or unthought of things as well, but i think people need a reason to invest in themselves versus hoarding items in their intricately decorated borg cubes.

Things that aren't easily farmed on some dead shard, moved, and sold to the masses. Even being forced in some ways to get it yourself, to reward the player versus the dude who scripted it, who bought gold to buy it, who power gamed it without competition somewhere quiet.
 

MalagAste

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That might be your "ideal" @Cetric but most of us do NOT share it. I happen to enjoy content like invasions, defending the city, doing the virtuous thing... I like repelling the invaders, destroying evil... and that. I do NOT enjoy fighting other players. To me as many so often cheat, hack and script I have ZERO desire to pit myself against another player. Especially when I know the battle is pretty one-sided. Many times when I've been in Fel I've witnessed cheating... I have only to view the 100's of videos and pics posted in most any PvP forum and Discord or on Youtube to see the cheats. I don't see a single player save a few using the EC that doesn't use some hack to rid themselves of trees and everything else... Feilds are shown as tiles..... etc... to me that isn't UO. And IMO I want nothing to do with that, it disgusts me.

The thought of having to fight against people like that ... I want nothing to do with it. Once upon a time, I enjoyed a little PvP when it meant something in RP. But I do not enjoy a purely one-sided battle where I'm fighting not only a decent player but against cheats and hacks... I've felt the effects of many of those cheats in many events where someone using them comes on screen and all of the sudden it's like being in mud where you can barely move at all... Now you can argue that it isn't anything and I'm making it up... but I've had this happen in Fel many times when it's just me and them... at a spawn. And all of the sudden someone comes on screen and I can hardly move at all... I know it's some sort of hack or whatever they use... it's not any spell. I'm not weakened or anything there is no debuff at all ... it is some sort of something they are using. And again... cheaters like that just disgust me. Its enough they are fighting and coming up on someone who's battling a bunch of mobs and usually 1/2 dead anyway but no they have to cheat and use some hack as well in order to "win" at PvP...

That's the sort of crap that makes me loathe fel with a passion... I've zero desire to deal with any of that. I would rather just play the game as intended. And yes that means with the EC and Pinco's UI since the EC is actually DESIGNED to be played with a UI. Not vanilla... And there is nothing in that UI that is some illegal script.

Infact without Pinco's I'd rather not play at all... Now maybe that's how some feel about all their hacks they use to PvP... but IMO that's not UO... UO was NEVER intended to be played that way.

I prefer to play the game against the game... not against a cheater. If I wanted that I'd have played Risk more with my brother... Who incidentally reminds me a LOT of Kyronix... always taking a simple game and making it so freaking complex and convoluted that no one really knows how to play it at all but him... so he always won. You've never played UNO until you've played with 4 decks in one and been made to draw 48 or more cards... and had a hand that was over 90 cards...
 

Cetric

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That might be your "ideal" @Cetric but most of us do NOT share it. I happen to enjoy content like invasions, defending the city, doing the virtuous thing... I like repelling the invaders, destroying evil... and that. I do NOT enjoy fighting other players. To me as many so often cheat, hack and script I have ZERO desire to pit myself against another player. Especially when I know the battle is pretty one-sided. Many times when I've been in Fel I've witnessed cheating... I have only to view the 100's of videos and pics posted in most any PvP forum and Discord or on Youtube to see the cheats. I don't see a single player save a few using the EC that doesn't use some hack to rid themselves of trees and everything else... Feilds are shown as tiles..... etc... to me that isn't UO. And IMO I want nothing to do with that, it disgusts me.

The thought of having to fight against people like that ... I want nothing to do with it. Once upon a time, I enjoyed a little PvP when it meant something in RP. But I do not enjoy a purely one-sided battle where I'm fighting not only a decent player but against cheats and hacks... I've felt the effects of many of those cheats in many events where someone using them comes on screen and all of the sudden it's like being in mud where you can barely move at all... Now you can argue that it isn't anything and I'm making it up... but I've had this happen in Fel many times when it's just me and them... at a spawn. And all of the sudden someone comes on screen and I can hardly move at all... I know it's some sort of hack or whatever they use... it's not any spell. I'm not weakened or anything there is no debuff at all ... it is some sort of something they are using. And again... cheaters like that just disgust me. Its enough they are fighting and coming up on someone who's battling a bunch of mobs and usually 1/2 dead anyway but no they have to cheat and use some hack as well in order to "win" at PvP...

That's the sort of crap that makes me loathe fel with a passion... I've zero desire to deal with any of that. I would rather just play the game as intended. And yes that means with the EC and Pinco's UI since the EC is actually DESIGNED to be played with a UI. Not vanilla... And there is nothing in that UI that is some illegal script.

Infact without Pinco's I'd rather not play at all... Now maybe that's how some feel about all their hacks they use to PvP... but IMO that's not UO... UO was NEVER intended to be played that way.

I prefer to play the game against the game... not against a cheater. If I wanted that I'd have played Risk more with my brother... Who incidentally reminds me a LOT of Kyronix... always taking a simple game and making it so freaking complex and convoluted that no one really knows how to play it at all but him... so he always won. You've never played UNO until you've played with 4 decks in one and been made to draw 48 or more cards... and had a hand that was over 90 cards...

I don't bother pvming for the reasons you state you wont pvp - its nothing but multi botted and scripted to death, so whats the point? You villainize pvp for something that is even more prevalent in other realms. Go ahead and get them to do an invasion based on some sort of lore at a scheduled time not everyone can adhere to, and watch 15 botted tamers take over. plz. The "scripting" in pvp is nothing compared to that, inf act theres very little you can do that isnt built right in to EC. You, amongst others, just see players who know the mechanics of the game alot better, and call them "scripters and hackers". Cant really penalize someone for having more knowledge on a subject.

I should also mention, that it is absolutely incredible that i pvp nearly every night and have never experienced a "omg this guy came on my screen and it slowed me down cause of some sort of cheat or hack."
 
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PaithanTheElf

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The thought of having to fight against people like that ... I want nothing to do with it. Once upon a time, I enjoyed a little PvP when it meant something in RP. But I do not enjoy a purely one-sided battle where I'm fighting not only a decent player but against cheats and hacks... I've felt the effects of many of those cheats in many events where someone using them comes on screen and all of the sudden it's like being in mud where you can barely move at all... Now you can argue that it isn't anything and I'm making it up... but I've had this happen in Fel many times when it's just me and them... at a spawn. And all of the sudden someone comes on screen and I can hardly move at all... I know it's some sort of hack or whatever they use... it's not any spell. I'm not weakened or anything there is no debuff at all ... it is some sort of something they are using. And again... cheaters like that just disgust me. Its enough they are fighting and coming up on someone who's battling a bunch of mobs and usually 1/2 dead anyway but no they have to cheat and use some hack as well in order to "win" at PvP...

That's the sort of crap that makes me loathe fel with a passion... I've zero desire to deal with any of that. I would rather just play the game as intended. And yes that means with the EC and Pinco's UI since the EC is actually DESIGNED to be played with a UI. Not vanilla... And there is nothing in that UI that is some illegal script.

Infact without Pinco's I'd rather not play at all... Now maybe that's how some feel about all their hacks they use to PvP... but IMO that's not UO... UO was NEVER intended to be played that way.
Just wanted to laugh at a few of the things you said:

1. You think something is cheating if it is done on Classic Client even though the same thing can be done in Enhanced.
2. You think there is some Lag hack
 

MalagAste

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The EC can not and does not get rid of trees and replace them with stumps .. nor does the EC switch out all fields for teleport tiles... ONLY cheaters in the CC do that.

And yes there is a cheat that does cause lag... there are a few players who use it. Same as the guy who got mad because he was kicked out of an Auctionhouse so he thought it'd be "funny" to come and perform a hack to crash everyone in the CC... until Mesanna showed up and removed him from game.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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lol. umm.....no. power creep would still happen it'd just happen among those who managed to get all the items that other people "lost."

you and all your friends.

*shrugs* I guess i shouldn't have posted something against the grain -- should've known it'd get misappropriated.

UO long ago doomed itself to power creep with it's itemization choices. Without some form of significant item loss there really can't be much balance without quick stagnation, especially in a game that at this point is, I don't think I'll get much pushback in saying, highly populated by long time (10+ years) die hards. UO isn't like D&D. D&D has a natural system of renewal, playing through one campaign, moving on to the next, with new characters and new ideas ad goals. UO may allow new characters, but it's not a natural cycle like D&D, and all the long time players are still largely playing characters they have been playing for many years, and the goals are all pretty much the same when it comes to gearing, as there's not much viable variety.
As it sits the wall of diminishing returns is tremendously low, and it has rendered most of the games combat related content meaningless. In modern UO you don't really start until you have a fully skilled and geared character and hit the "end game" searching for those elusive pieces in the top 5%. Most hard coded "artifacts" are patently useless and 99% of monsters in the game will never give you a drop you care about, as hand imbued gear which can be made with little effort and tailored directly to your needs will be better than anything but the top end random drops. People have suits that may not be perfect, but they are at that diminishing effectiveness returns threshold that makes the impact of any upgrades all but purely psychological.
That's why I moved to siege when the introduced tram/insurance. The writing was on the wall, and obviously the pay off has been worth it for many, as there are plenty of non gear related things to keep one occupied in the game, but to some, hands on gear hunting is an essential part of game play. Though even on siege with the way the itemization in this game works, it's awfully hard to find good drops on monsters that beat the efficiency of player crafted items. Though if the population of the game had remained healthy I think it would still be a good and fairly sustainable system.

All that said, sure they can add in stuff that people will want. People will go to town over simple rehues, or any drops with tailored basic usefulness with some unique flavor. I honestly wish they had a bit more of a freeform/simplistic approach to adding new content, at least periodically. You CAN give people **** to chase even if it's just a unique color or name or something, without all the tedious quests that are rendered somewhat nonsensical upon repeated undertakings. More Treasures of Tokuno, less Zipactriotl.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
why does every thread these days involve someone saying that such-and-such a known and popularly used cheat either doesn't exist or doesn't hurt the game?

wow.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Just wanted to laugh at a few of the things you said:

1. You think something is cheating if it is done on Classic Client even though the same thing can be done in Enhanced.
2. You think there is some Lag hack
there definitely used to be a lag hack -- not sure if it still exists and not sure what else i can say about it. 2 my knowledge ec doesn't have the stump hack thingie, and the auto run around feature is a poor, poor substitute.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
lol. umm.....no. power creep would still happen it'd just happen among those who managed to get all the items that other people "lost."

you and all your friends.

*shrugs* I guess i shouldn't have posted something against the grain -- should've known it'd get misappropriated.
You are making some assumptions here, primarily that because I support item loss that I must necessarily be a predator, that I support it because I want to take stuff from other players, which is not, and generally has never been true. I did do some thieving once upon a time but honestly it was for the experience more than the loot, I have never been a pk (or pvper or any stripe, in fact I sort of hate pks), and my career in game has been 99% pvmer and crafter/vendor, most of which was on siege because that was the shard with the best and most robust top to bottom economy (wide demand from common items through to rare commodities) from the in my experience.
Secondly that item loss must be about another player taking your things. It could just as easily be about items breaking or items being lost when a monster kills you, which happened fairly often back in the day, or some other unrealized method.

I will say that while I was never a pk, pks absolutly play a part in the virtual economy, and in terms of the economy only (ignoring any of the other real downsides of open pvp) the effect is/was greatly positive. The balance there is the key, I think.
Not only do/did pks up demand for valuable gear (both pks in the form of pk demand and to defend against them or restock when they killed you) but they also make automated (scripted) resource gathering, as well as attended but unceasing gold and item farming untenable, both of which serve to control inflation and more importantly to limit supply so that more things maintain value, and in the case of resource gathering, helping to maintaining a market that otherwise would be largely lost to the actual playing public. There is also the element of the secondary market in the form of "buy backs" which is also interesting.
As to "there would still be power creep" yes, to some extent it's more or less unavoidable but you CAN mitigate it to a sustainable level, which the modern game fails to do.
I will say the notion that with item loss (in this case via loss to other players) power creep still happens just in select groups is a notion with some truth to it, (for good or ill is another debate) but I think it's a much better system that has small pockets of power rather than universally across the board.
There was a period of time (a year or so) after Ren that I played both Siege Perilous and Lake Superior, doing the same stuff, pvming/vending and it became rapidly clear which shard had the better economy and better overall experience for me as a non pvp player, and while it's invariably somewhat subjective, I don't think it was coincidental that it was the shard without the item protection/unchecked gold and resource funneling. Not only were the supply demand chains more robust, but the interpersonal dependencies were more intense as well. Those glory days are past, but there was a period where there was a tremendous balance in gameplay and human interaction, easily the best I ever experience in this or probably any other game, but I may be in danger of waxing nostalgic at this point, hah.

As for the I shouldn't go against the grain stuff, I don't see a need for that reaction. There was nothing wrong with your post, it seems to have sparked some interesting conversation. Just because I don't agree with some of your points, and I have done a LOT of thinking about this very subject over the past two decades, so I have a lot to say, doesn't mean you have been negated. It's just a conversation and I'd be happy to continue whether we agree or not. :D

Happy thanksgiving!
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Power creep is going to happen in all games, but the issue with this game is it wasn't done properly. When Imbuing/reforging was popular people complained that killing monsters in the game had no point. Now they could've just increased general loot to be slightly better then imbued/reforged, but they didn't and just opened the floodgates on properties with those insane legendaries. They literally skipped over like 10-15 steps to get there eventually, Same thing was done with the taming patch, it coudlve just been a slight upgrade which could be built upon over years but instead they went from vanilla to ridiculous in one patch. That's the issue this game faces and literally it took a decade away of future ideas in two patches.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The EC can not and does not get rid of trees and replace them with stumps .. nor does the EC switch out all fields for teleport tiles... ONLY cheaters in the CC do that.

And yes there is a cheat that does cause lag... there are a few players who use it. Same as the guy who got mad because he was kicked out of an Auctionhouse so he thought it'd be "funny" to come and perform a hack to crash everyone in the CC... until Mesanna showed up and removed him from game.
1. EC can zoom out and eliminate the need for that. lol
2. Lag Hack... LOL
 
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