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NEWS [UO.Com] Macroers and Houses

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Hello Everyone, Keep in mind this is not a change to the TOS, this is a change as to how we will handle macroers from this point forward. In case you haven’t read the newsletter for the past few months the numbers being banned are rising and we feel are out of control. Scripting/macroing needs to stop and this is the step in doing that . So this is how it will be handled in the future by the GM’s. This is not to punish the innocent but to catch the cheaters. Moving forward, we are going to start noting […]

Continue reading...
 

Kojak

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of course they didn't address the main problem which is what if a bunch of jerks decide to macro in your public vendor house to try to get you banned

that needs CLARIFICAAAAAAAAAAAATION, otherwise it's time to make your public houses private and shut down your vendor shops - something needs to be said about this - jeez - this is the only thing that needs to be clarified and they dropped the ball yet again
 

Quickblade

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Yes they need to add some exceptions to where if the reported ''scripter'' is not friended to the house in question , no action will be taken against the house , otherwise it will be too easy to grief and get innocent houses banned.
 

Pawain

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We ask about things and get no responses from the team. Why did they decide to announce this since nothing changed?

They should have just done what they described and no innocents would have been harmed.

Now the guilty know to find a house that is public and go macro there.

The one time they announce something that should have stayed behind the scenes.
 

Cyrah

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What a shock... Who writes this stuff? Her or all of them? I guess her main minion needed some other way to take down his Luna competition. Now he has it. Keep those doors locked L.
 

Qikdraw

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So why hasn't idoc scripters been taken care of before now?They're the ones who are scripting to make money off the game. Skill scripting and resource harvesting are nothing in comparison to what idoc scripters have been doing for over a decade at least, and nothing has ever been done about them. Why is that?
 

Cinderella

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So why hasn't idoc scripters been taken care of before now?They're the ones who are scripting to make money off the game. Skill scripting and resource harvesting are nothing in comparison to what idoc scripters have been doing for over a decade at least, and nothing has ever been done about them. Why is that?
not to mention, instead of actioning the afk'rs at blackthorns, they get rid of the spawn.
 

Cyrah

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@Qikdraw has it! This is to give us something else to complain about besides idoc cheaters. I think she has no intention of doing anything about idoc cheaters ever. Not one thing. Who wrote " and we feel are out of control". Sure wasn't her . It does sound like familiar writing to me.
So do we stay while she does anything she pleases? Is she even close to retirement? Is there hope a replacement dev cares? I do not know. dun dun dun...
 
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Prince Erik

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So why hasn't idoc scripters been taken care of before now?They're the ones who are scripting to make money off the game. Skill scripting and resource harvesting are nothing in comparison to what idoc scripters have been doing for over a decade at least, and nothing has ever been done about them. Why is that?
Why, indeed....

*considers post above yours*

Why, indeed....
 

railshot

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for the past few months the numbers being banned are rising and we feel are out of control
This one made me laugh. Really?! The numbers of macroers are rising in the past few months?!!
I am pretty sure the number of macroers as a percent of population has been steady for a decade and a half at least. Just because you decided to start paying attention, does not mean there is a spike in macroing.
By itself, it is admirable that they finally chose to do something about it. The method, on the other hand, leaves a lot to be desired, as usual. The macorers who do the most damage to the game are resource gatherers, IDOCers, Event bots, and various hunting bots. None of those are likely to spend a lot of time at a house. Who might be caught macroing at a house is some poor sop training a skill by jamming a keyboard button. I am sure suspending or banning that guy will do a lot of good./s
 

Poo

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come on now, lets be honest with each other.
if you haven't already macro'd every character in every slot on your account by now to max (22 freak'n years!) then holy cow are you a procrastinator!
the only people i see this effecting are the resource recall collectors and people who are fresh back.

like really, even years ago i would have never of macro'd unattended in my OWN house!
that's what boats are for people!

this seems to be a very out of left field enforcement or a very old TOS rule.

i thought maybe this was because of the free to play part of the game but those characters cant use peoples houses can they?
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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@Mesanna

This chances of abuse on this is astronomical...

Someone wants a chance at an 18x18 in Luna? Simple.... create EJ accounts, get to macroing unattended in the public (can't have vendors in Private ones) 18x18... rinse/repeat until enough accounts are banned and the 'host house' owner also gets banned...

house decays and drops...

VERY bad situation.

Don't like a person? Take that same approach...

Sure, I know something has to be done to pop the cheaters, it just seems like this is the wrong way to go about it.
 

Johnny Black

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Maybe I am reading a different English that you all!



They will Investigate and VERIFY the account owner of the house against the ones scripting! They will check if
they are friend or co owner of the house by looking into the house sign, they can also check IP.
Do you honestly think I can just go to someones 50P Luna house on Atlantic and camp there with few EJ accounts and
they will Ban that owner without investigating first?. Plus We all know they only have 3 GM's to Handle all the Shards.
I am sure Mesanna is talking about the 100+ EJ's account abusing their free accounts.
 

CovenantX

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Hello Everyone, Keep in mind this is not a change to the TOS, this is a change as to how we will handle macroers from this point forward. In case you haven’t read the newsletter for the past few months the numbers being banned are rising and we feel are out of control.

What took so long ? It's been out of control for well over a decade. scripting in a house is the least of the 'cheating' issues....I guess it's gotta start somewhere though.

How long will it be before pvp is 'cleansed' of cheaters?
 

Pawain

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Posters asked for more banning for scripting and unattended players.
(most of those posters haven't logged on for months)

The Team decided to comply and fight it with Analytics.

Don't ask to fix things that are not broken.
 

Finley Grant

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Maybe I am reading a different English that you all!



They will Investigate and VERIFY the account owner of the house against the ones scripting! They will check if
they are friend or co owner of the house by looking into the house sign, they can also check IP.
Do you honestly think I can just go to someones 50P Luna house on Atlantic and camp there with few EJ accounts and
they will Ban that owner without investigating first?. Plus We all know they only have 3 GM's to Handle all the Shards.
I am sure Mesanna is talking about the 100+ EJ's account abusing their free accounts.

@Johnny Black
by all love man, i guess you were never affected by any weird stuff... let me tell you something:
i once bought a keep from a well known and trusted person. trade went smooth all good.
i loaded the keep with my museum, yes approx 25+ plat in items.

a few MONTHS later (maybe even a year+) i logged into my account and found out i was not the owner anymore but mesanna was.


so what happened?
that well known person got caught with his fingers in the cockie jar VERY DEEEP, like where sun will never shine deep. he was called Clops. (which should ring a bell to everyone on Atlantic)
so you ask yourself now maybe what do i have to do with him right? did i also get busted for something?

the answer is NO.
she took my keep because it was owned by HIM before. they can see previous house owners and she took all of his houses.

the ONLY reason i got my house back was with massive intervention by me, Clops himself (telling her that he sold it way back to me) and another guys who know her better.
ME alone with no proper contact to her would have never been able to stop deletion.
it took almost a week to get it back.

and you want to tell me now that "all will be fine guys" they only target the "bad guys"

SURE THING.....

let me get 1 thing said: i dont want to argue against that there has to be changes to certain things and so on but this "idea" could cost people their houses if they are not as lucky as iam or simply taking a little break then come back blank....
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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Maybe I am reading a different English that you all!



They will Investigate and VERIFY the account owner of the house against the ones scripting! They will check if
they are friend or co owner of the house by looking into the house sign, they can also check IP.
Do you honestly think I can just go to someones 50P Luna house on Atlantic and camp there with few EJ accounts and
they will Ban that owner without investigating first?. Plus We all know they only have 3 GM's to Handle all the Shards.
I am sure Mesanna is talking about the 100+ EJ's account abusing their free accounts.
'verify' can mean a lot of things. she needs 2b specific. you're being 2 kind in ur interpretation
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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what is amazing is that slightly more nuance and this policy could make a lot of sense if it's implemented well. but as phrased it's a paradise 4 people who want 2 get other people in trouble.
 

Great DC

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Here is some locations to check for scripters/botters, Sanctuary - Savaetra, Balrons in different dungeons, Abbcess in blighted grove, fan dancers in tokuno dungeon. These places are highly scripted for loot, leave the people alone who are training skills. Skill training doesn't hurt the game, farming endless high end legendaries does. Only thing at houses that could be an issue is resource drop houses but even that is small time these days versus the mass legendary farming.
 

Cinderella

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Maybe I am reading a different English that you all!



They will Investigate and VERIFY the account owner of the house against the ones scripting! They will check if
they are friend or co owner of the house by looking into the house sign, they can also check IP.
Do you honestly think I can just go to someones 50P Luna house on Atlantic and camp there with few EJ accounts and
they will Ban that owner without investigating first?. Plus We all know they only have 3 GM's to Handle all the Shards.
I am sure Mesanna is talking about the 100+ EJ's account abusing their free accounts.

My issue with this is...
even though they verify that the home owner didn't do anything, there is a note in their file.
If they get so many notes in their file... then that owner would probably be banned.

Say there is a guild that doesn't like your guild.
They could intentionally target your house.
 

ShriNayne

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This was posted on the other forum....

username Posts: 46
November 22 edited November 22 Flag
Fair warning to everyone: I was a 'victim' of this new policy on November 11th. Make your houses private and remove all friends, co-owners and don't allow anyone access to anything. ALSO do not go to/visit other players houses where you are friended, co-owned or accessed where people may be macro-ing.

My 2 accounts were given legitimate email violation warnings for something that was happening at a house that I did not even own. Of course I tried to contest this and I was told by Mesanna herself, '... according to the notes this was your house so you approved of many accounts using your house to script.' I am sad to report this new policy is as bad as it looks. The fact my accounts were actioned and the producer of the game cannot tell that it was not even my house and won't allow me to contest the violations is a big YIKES.

I wish I could make this stuff up.

edit, adding this gem that was at the end of that email:

"Bottom line you are responsible for letting people script/cheat in your house.
Mesanna"

Again, it wasn't even my house lol and she won't give me a chance to contest the violations.
 

superfrog

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And big surprise here, Mariah closed the thread on the official forum. I tell ya this issue is as clear as mud, and just keeps getting worse.
 

Uriah Heep

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I can't believe Mariah let it run as long as she did. She usually shuts down most anything that isn't cheerleading
 

popps

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As I said in the other Thread on the Official Forums (a Thread now closed as it has been mentioned...), in all fairness, @Mesanna did say, to my understanding (Macroers and Houses – Ultima Online) :

Specifically, if we come across a situation where a group of macroers are holed up in a house doing whatever it is they are doing (skill gains, crafting etc) or a recall group dropping off resources in chests at a specific house (or houses), We are going to confirm the house owner from the house sign and then note that house-owner account about what the GM observed in the product account notes section of that house-owner account.
The relevant part to be noted, to my opinion, is where it is said : "...or a recall group dropping off resources in chests at a specific house (or houses)..."

The way I understand here, and if so, it is something which I totally agree with, what Broadsword is going to actively look for, is whether there is a number of "disposable" scripting accounts (EJ accounts or even veteran accounts but which have little to nothing to loose, if banned for scripting) which do the "dirt work", the scripted work to gather Resources, Legendaries or other Loot, and THEN benefit all these "against the TOS gotten items", to OTHER Ultima Online's Accounts which do not actively get involved in the scripting BUT, nonetheless, get the benefits from that....

And to me, it makes a whole lot of sense to ban ALSO these other accounts.....

Because, at least to my understanding, this is most often what scripters do.... they use accounts for scripting which they do not care about should they be found and banned, and then STORE all of the items obtained from Scripting, in "other" Accounts which do not engage in bannable activities in the game.

Of course that also these "other" Accounts which benefit from the "disposable" Accounts which do Script should be Banned.... or the sanction would have n "teeth".... so to speak....

Scripters already take into account that their scripting account can be banned if caught so, often, they use accounts which they can afford losing.... but their "Mains" which get to receive all of the items that were scripted, so to speak ?

That is an entire other story.... and if Broadsword is going to "track down" the Scripting accounts activities all the way to the Main Accounts which benefit from that against the TOS Scripting Activity and ban them too, well, THIS is surely going to make a change and finally work as a real deterrant against Scripting, finally.....

So, personally, as a player who has been against Scripting and all kinds of Cheating in UO from day one, and who saw many fellow players quit playing UO BECAUSE of the rampant scripting and cheating in it, I am totally on the side of @Mesanna, @Bleak, @Kyronix and the entire Broadsword Developing Team to go BEYOND the disposable Scripting Accounts and go to the Root of all this, all the way UP to the Main Accounts (that do not script, usually) which nonetheless benefit from the Activity of Scripting Account.

This is at least the way I see it.
 

Pawain

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This was posted on the other forum....

username Posts: 46
November 22 edited November 22 Flag
Fair warning to everyone: I was a 'victim' of this new policy on November 11th. Make your houses private and remove all friends, co-owners and don't allow anyone access to anything. ALSO do not go to/visit other players houses where you are friended, co-owned or accessed where people may be macro-ing.

My 2 accounts were given legitimate email violation warnings for something that was happening at a house that I did not even own. Of course I tried to contest this and I was told by Mesanna herself, '... according to the notes this was your house so you approved of many accounts using your house to script.' I am sad to report this new policy is as bad as it looks. The fact my accounts were actioned and the producer of the game cannot tell that it was not even my house and won't allow me to contest the violations is a big YIKES.

I wish I could make this stuff up.

edit, adding this gem that was at the end of that email:

"Bottom line you are responsible for letting people script/cheat in your house.
Mesanna"

Again, it wasn't even my house lol and she won't give me a chance to contest the violations.
Amazing that they were able to post since they have been banned for over a week. Sounds like BS to me. He warns us not to go to houses that have scripting going on. Duh. Stupidity gets you banned not Mesanna.
 

G.v.P

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I haven't logged into Stratics in awhile but this news story caught my interest.

Like others have voiced, I had hoped this news would pertain to IDOCs, as IDOC scripting has been a huge issue for a very long time. I also understand the frustration people are having over the whole "contacting the home owner." I, too, do not quite understand that part, and I agree it should only be a concern if the targeted cheaters are friends and/or have access to the house. If there is absolutely no association between the home owner and those scripting, I think it is rather unfair for the home owner to be a target. As long as, in Bonnie's review, the Broadsword team can determine whether or not the scripters have access to the house (to protect the public houses), I think it is a good move going forward.
 

ShriNayne

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Amazing that they were able to post since they have been banned for over a week. Sounds like BS to me. He warns us not to go to houses that have scripting going on. Duh. Stupidity gets you banned not Mesanna.
I don't think he/she said they were actually banned but that they had been emailed saying they had broken the ToS, maybe they have been given a warning? I know Messana said before that paid accounts get a warning first and EJ accounts just get banned. He must have a paid account to have houses and post on the other forum.
 

petemage

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Amazing that they were able to post since they have been banned for over a week. Sounds like BS to me. He warns us not to go to houses that have scripting going on. Duh. Stupidity gets you banned not Mesanna.
You even quote where he literally says "violation warnings".
 

Finley Grant

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As I said in the other Thread on the Official Forums (a Thread now closed as it has been mentioned...), in all fairness, @Mesanna did say, to my understanding (Macroers and Houses – Ultima Online) :



The relevant part to be noted, to my opinion, is where it is said : "...or a recall group dropping off resources in chests at a specific house (or houses)..."

The way I understand here, and if so, it is something which I totally agree with, what Broadsword is going to actively look for, is whether there is a number of "disposable" scripting accounts (EJ accounts or even veteran accounts but which have little to nothing to loose, if banned for scripting) which do the "dirt work", the scripted work to gather Resources, Legendaries or other Loot, and THEN benefit all these "against the TOS gotten items", to OTHER Ultima Online's Accounts which do not actively get involved in the scripting BUT, nonetheless, get the benefits from that....

And to me, it makes a whole lot of sense to ban ALSO these other accounts.....

Because, at least to my understanding, this is most often what scripters do.... they use accounts for scripting which they do not care about should they be found and banned, and then STORE all of the items obtained from Scripting, in "other" Accounts which do not engage in bannable activities in the game.

Of course that also these "other" Accounts which benefit from the "disposable" Accounts which do Script should be Banned.... or the sanction would have n "teeth".... so to speak....

Scripters already take into account that their scripting account can be banned if caught so, often, they use accounts which they can afford losing.... but their "Mains" which get to receive all of the items that were scripted, so to speak ?

That is an entire other story.... and if Broadsword is going to "track down" the Scripting accounts activities all the way to the Main Accounts which benefit from that against the TOS Scripting Activity and ban them too, well, THIS is surely going to make a change and finally work as a real deterrant against Scripting, finally.....

So, personally, as a player who has been against Scripting and all kinds of Cheating in UO from day one, and who saw many fellow players quit playing UO BECAUSE of the rampant scripting and cheating in it, I am totally on the side of @Mesanna, @Bleak, @Kyronix and the entire Broadsword Developing Team to go BEYOND the disposable Scripting Accounts and go to the Root of all this, all the way UP to the Main Accounts (that do not script, usually) which nonetheless benefit from the Activity of Scripting Account.

This is at least the way I see it.

lol
as if scripters would be idiots....
they most likely already adapted before you postet your nonsense.

the whole thing is so easy to get around its laughable....

those persons would never use their main accounts to store those items in the first place. those are not even close to be involved. and if they are halfway clever they dont even use the same IP for scripting and trading...
 

MalagAste

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lol
as if scripters would be idiots....
they most likely already adapted before you postet your nonsense.

the whole thing is so easy to get around its laughable....

those persons would never use their main accounts to store those items in the first place. those are not even close to be involved. and if they are halfway clever they dont even use the same IP for scripting and trading...
Most likely most of them hide behind a VPN.
 

popps

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lol
as if scripters would be idiots....
they most likely already adapted before you postet your nonsense.

the whole thing is so easy to get around its laughable....

those persons would never use their main accounts to store those items in the first place. those are not even close to be involved. and if they are halfway clever they dont even use the same IP for scripting and trading...

Nonetheless, "IF" Broadsword wants to "follow the money" all that they got to do is log the unique Scripted items' IDs and see what Accounts they get through until those scripted items land to their wanted destination Account.

The Scripters won't land them, ultimately, to their "Main" Account ?

Fine, the scripteditems will STILL need to land onto some subscribed Account at least for storage needs which EJ Accounts lack.....

At that point, Broasdword has still subscribed Accounts with ill gotten scribed items which they can ban and delete....

And "even if" Scripters were to Trade for Gold between Accounts in their control to fake up a legit trade to launder those items (the trade would be for below their worth, obviously....), as long as Broadsword was to "follow the trail" of those items' IDs, they could STILL track down those items, delete the Gold AND the items traded below their actual Market value....

And if they were to be traded for their actual Market worth well, in that case the advantage for the Scripter would be non-existant since the Gold would be deleted anyways...

Furthermore, I would imagine that Broadword will look at "patterns".... that is, not at merely a one time scripted item changing account but at patterns taking place over and over between certain accounts with items scripted being "passed over" between those Accounts....

Of course that, if a pattern is detected between known scripted Accounts and other Accounts which get to benefit from those scripted items not just once, but over and over multiple times, then they will take actions in regards to ALL of those Accounts involved....

So, it all depends, to my opinion, how far will Broadsword go in their tracking from Account to Account those scripted items and then take action in regards to ALL of the Accounts which have dealt with those items at any time.

Scripting CAN BE addressed and busted, of course it will require an effort..... it all depends, to my viewing, on how "far" Broadsword is going to go to bust Scripting in Ultima Online....

Personally, I hope that they go all the way and get rid of it once and for all.
 
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popps

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Most likely most of them hide behind a VPN.
I think that the IP is not what Broadswords would be looking at but, instead, the unique in-game ID of the items that were scripted..... what they need to do, is to follow the scripted items unique IDs changing of Accounts, log them all and then proceed to a more in deep investigation of all of them to be able to then take actions against all of those Accounts that they detect repeting patterns in the game that involve scripted items.....
 

El of LA

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Should we pull mailboxes also until they clarify this?
When you make your house private, as we now have to, no mailbox is going to work I don't think. Its just as locked in as the rest of the house.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

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we're doing something here that's pretty bad. we're picking which kind of cheating should be in effect allowed.

that isn't relevant. what's relevant is that they need to offer clarification on the policy so we know if every house in the game needs to suddenly turn private and if community houses are a thing of the past.

that's the issue. the issue isn't which kind of cheating a given poster is and is not OK with.
 

PageBoy

Journeyman
Over the years I've trained 50+ characters totally afk, using third-party programs, as well as all my friends.

I'm currently playing on classic client + a third-party program, like all the people I know who plays CC.

BUT I've never farmed afk resources, I've never scripted idoc, I've never hurt anyone, I've just avoided clicking the mouse millions of times hoping to gain a 0.1 skill in an old game with never renewed mechanics.

Manually macroing a char these days is just insane and nonsense, remove afk macroing (with or without 3d party programs) means def killing this game...
 

petemage

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When you make your house private, as we now have to, no mailbox is going to work I don't think. Its just as locked in as the rest of the house.
I live in Fel and my house is private ever since. It's true that only friends can enter my house, but at least those can use my mailbox just fine.
 

Finley Grant

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Nonetheless, "IF" Broadsword wants to "follow the money" all that they got to do is log the unique Scripted items' IDs and see what Accounts they get through until those scripted items land to their wanted destination Account.

The Scripters won't land them, ultimately, to their "Main" Account ?

Fine, the scripteditems will STILL need to land onto some subscribed Account at least for storage needs which EJ Accounts lack.....

At that point, Broasdword has still subscribed Accounts with ill gotten scribed items which they can ban and delete....

And "even if" Scripters were to Trade for Gold between Accounts in their control to fake up a legit trade to launder those items (the trade would be for below their worth, obviously....), as long as Broadsword was to "follow the trail" of those items' IDs, they could STILL track down those items, delete the Gold AND the items traded below their actual Market value....

And if they were to be traded for their actual Market worth well, in that case the advantage for the Scripter would be non-existant since the Gold would be deleted anyways...

Furthermore, I would imagine that Broadword will look at "patterns".... that is, not at merely a one time scripted item changing account but at patterns taking place over and over between certain accounts with items scripted being "passed over" between those Accounts....

Of course that, if a pattern is detected between known scripted Accounts and other Accounts which get to benefit from those scripted items not just once, but over and over multiple times, then they will take actions in regards to ALL of those Accounts involved....

So, it all depends, to my opinion, how far will Broadsword go in their tracking from Account to Account those scripted items and then take action in regards to ALL of the Accounts which have dealt with those items at any time.

Scripting CAN BE addressed and busted, of course it will require an effort..... it all depends, to my viewing, on how "far" Broadsword is going to go to bust Scripting in Ultima Online....

Personally, I hope that they go all the way and get rid of it once and for all.
sorry to dissapoint you...
not sure what "scripted items" are for you but everything which can be out into a deed will get a new ID so you can launder it pretty fine and quick.
which is also a reason why all the duped 5.0 sots cannot be traced anymore for example and make others a fortune...

you are right in 1 point. some items like EM items and armor most likely would be traceable with their ID. but time told at least me they are not getting that done properly.

the real interesting point here is the scripting of idocs. the items on ground are legit (well most of them) so how excactly you want to see if someone is scripting the looting of an idoc or not?
it me be very obvious that if 90% of the good items at idoc dissapear within 1 second but can you prove it?
same goes with script placing...
 

jack flash uk

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If Mesanna actually bothered to show up at an idoc and uses her powers to open up all of that idoc cheats pack animals packs and watch the vacuum fill them then she can take action. There is not human on earth that can click and drag so many items so quickly, when the dust settles on the idoc she can watch the gate open and the 5/6 stupidly named players one at a time with packs en tow go through. then she can see how full they all are and the final destination. Then she can see all the other goods that are stock piled etc. There is a way but it would take time to do it. I really wished I worked there as I would go over and above to see how it all works. then shut it all down.

Then what about legal action against all the illegal sites selling good for money. surely a cease and diciest order which a HUGE lawsuit should be enough to rid us of this cancer?
 
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El of LA

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Thank you! that is so helpful to know. I've never had a private house in all my years in UO! I'll place mine out in front! :)

I live in Fel and my house is private ever since. It's true that only friends can enter my house, but at least those can use my mailbox just fine.[/QUOTE
 
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