Vote IDOC changes. @Kyronix, @Mesana

[Rafman]

If you guys even understood how idocs work you'd see why my post makes logical sense to combat scripters, and why none of the ideas in the poll really do. Would love to see someone actually try to engage in an intelligent conversation by responding to some of the specifics i said.

Probably a pipe dream though. Keep on getting the personal attacks out of your system instead - I know it's a favorite pastime here.

 

[Rafman]

Nothing you suggested levels the playing field when the scripters loot the stuff before it even hits the ground or can be registered by actual players who don't cheat.

All your offering is making it 100x easier for the scripters...

How does what I offered make things any easier for scripters, as opposed to non-scripters? A one liner without responding to any of the actual things I said isn't much of a discussion. I think everything I said is meant to help players who don't cheat level the playing field.

Regarding the looting - no I didn't offer up an actual solution. I do explain why none of the solutions laid out in the poll would be helpful in anyway however or realistic, and I stand by that fully. To fix the looting - i'd like to better understand what the Devs can and can't do.There are probably intelligent solutions that can be implemented easily, but it really depends what is feasible or not.

Are the devs able to sort or recognize items automatically? Think of an 18x18 - there's like 3000+ items in there. You can't make it so you have to 'solve a puzzle' or 'kill a monster' for every single item, it would get silly. If there's an easy way for devs to automatically grab certain types of items (let's say artifacts, certain deeds, maybe rares or whatever else gets flagged as high value) and separate them from the rest - well you can make those specific items harder to get. It can be as simple as making the blue little monsters that spawn at idocs "smarter" - and only having them pick up expensive items, instead of junk. That way, a system would lead to ~80% of the 'good stuff' only being available from killing a monster. Can't really script that. Could even make some of the monsters more challenging as make sense.

If they have absolutely no way to sort and recognize items - I'm sure i can come up with a few alternative ideas instead that would help things out.

 

[celticus]

No offense OP, but all of these options kind of suck.

1. Cancel all IDOCs. No....a lot of players really enjoy the playstyle, and have for years, cancelling them is silly

2.Remove stage of decay...if anything, this just makes it easier for scripter. You can't manually sit by an idoc for 6 days straight, but a scripter probably can.

3. Cancel the 5-10-15 hour thing. Sure I suppose - the new system is idiotic. Still - you're not exactly bringing forth any new ideas.

4. Buffer/in-game encounters? Not sure what you mean exactly. Like - each idoc creates its own spawn/monsters you kill for loot? Sounds way too complicated to develop for. Also - some castles are empty, and some 7x7s have tons of containers, seems weird to have more to less spawn ratio...Not 100% sure i understand this option though.

5. It's probably easier for a scripter to loot from a treasure chest than it is from the ground. And it's probably harder for someone to manually do so. Don't think this helps.

6. Drop all items in backpacks. Lots of problems here. First, some would just bring 10+ accounts for advantage. Mostly - think of an idoc castle - there might be over 5M stones worth of items there. Simply put - items won't fit in people's backpacks. Also - even if they did fit - i don't want to spend the next 4 hours sorting through thousands of junk items i need to remove from my backpack that were automatically put there...

7. Reward bank and randomly claim with Fellowship points. Ok....again, think of that castle with those thousands of items. Are you claiming each piece of ingot separately? 500 separate chairs? Seems like this could get silly fast. I haven't played much so not very familiar with fellowship points - but i'm sure there are ways to cheat that system and gain a bunch of points fast, and so the same people would end up with all the loot faster.

8. Permanently delete all items. Why? If you don't like idocs personally - just pretend this is how it works and never go do them and you'll be happy. And others who do like them can continue getting loot. This is extreme.

9. Place all items in the bank account of house owner. Few problems....One, idocs have always been a part of the game, you're essentially taking away a big playstyle that people enjoy. Not sure that's smart. Two - think back to the castle with all those thousands of items. It won't all fit in a bank...

10. Leave idocs as they are. Well - personally, I hate the current system, so i'd welcome some change, i just think your ideas are seriously lacking.

11. I don't care either way. I think that's part of the problem - so many of the people who vote and participate in idoc discussions around here are usually some who never actually do idocs, nor care to. Not sure why their opinion should matter all that much. To give a parallel - i don't think i've ever filled a BOD in uo. When discussions about changing the BOD system arise here - i'll be sure to not have a vocal voice in a system i don't even really participate in.


Here are some actual problems with IDOCS with potential suggestions:

1. You can't see inside a public house anymore. This is really, really lame for me. You spend hours scouting for idocs - let's say you come up with 10, half public and half private. Historically, with the public ones, you always had the ability to walk inside and assess the goods. Looks good, or crap? Than decide if it's worth your time. With private - it's a bit of a gamble. With the system today, it's all random. Kind of loses its luster. I wish they would allow idocs to be public again. At the very least - allow them to be publicly entered until the final "IDOC" stage - then you can make them private if you want.

2. The timers suck. Too long - 5/10/15 hours needs to go away. Most of the time, the only people who have an accurate "time" on an idoc is obtained through illegal method. Why not even the playing field, and give all players a fighting chance? Few ways to do this, here's one suggestion. When the house is within one hour of fall time - have the house sign turn RED, to alert players. To be clear - you would still leave the 5/10/15h timer, or go back to 7h idoc timer - the only change is when it's 1h away, make sign go red, to let everyone know it's coming soon and people can be ready. This allows players to more casually keep track of idocs while playing the game, checking on the hour, but when the sign is RED it's go-time, so you get there and wait, without losing your whole day.

3. As for the items inside the house....well i'd have to understand the dev's ability to "sort" through items a bit better to give some actual suggestions. Maybe make it a bit harder to obtain some of the more valuable/rare items vs others, depending on what the dev's abilities are here in terms of recognizing higher end items vs not. But you simply can't treat all idoc items the same (think of the castle with 5000 individual items) - or it would get ridiculous fast.

4. Placing houses. I think the current "placing timer" was brought in to give players a chance to loot items first. Instead of house being placed, and everything ending up under sign, this system today gives players a chance to "loot first". Great - if that's truly the idea, let's work with that. Same idea as the sign turning red 1 hour before house falls - why not give players a "5 minute warning" before a spot opens up for placement. Maybe it's a sound in-game, or maybe a temporary sign appears in-game after the house falls and before we can place saying "You cannot place a house here at this time" - but 5 mins before you can place, the writing on sign changes to "Placement to open within 5 minutes". That way all players know to prepare and try their hardest then, leveling the playfield. And at the same time - get rid of the stupid house tool "timeout" issue. 5 minute warning - let everyone "mash their buttons" during those 5 mins to get lucky. It's not any faster to "mash a button" manually than it would be with a script - so gives everyone an even playing field.

Basically - there are many possibilities to improve, or "fix" idocs. Most of the ideas laid out in the OP are really poor.

Sadly, what you are suggesting is beneficial to scripters..

 

[celticus]

The most popular vote here, seems to be to place all items in the house owner's bank, which definitely is feasible, code wise, and the code exists for that as others have mentioned. All 6,000 items!
This seems superficially to be the most kind-hearted option that would allow the house owner some time to come back in the game.
However, there are a couple of things that it does not take into account. One is that the player may never come back to the game, as is frequently the case sadly, so all those items are gone forever. The other one is that some of these items are of historical value for the game, and there are people interested in them.
The best option might be to drop all items into the bank box of the house owner, keep them there for 4 weeks or so, not years etc. At the end of that time, then the game may start to randomly drop these items somehow on all levels of encounters (T-maps, and all types of mobs of any level, even mongbats, not just high level that would tend to favor the wealthy, just make it random so all players can potentially benefit).
A final option from the same perspective may be to just drop them randomly anywhere in the game on the ground and make the decay timer very long, again the idea being to distribute the goods rather than have them go to scripters?
Also how about make them drop in dungeon and overland trapped chests, again randomly?

 

[Max Blackoak]

Or like others games have a 4/6 hour restart to kill the scripts as they cannot update that quick. Or a modern version or punk buster

This!

idocs are fine the way they are now as long as they're in Felucca or on Siege Perilous. So please don't screw Fel/Siege players with whatever you come up with. Make a change to how Trammel idocs work all you want but leave Fel/Siege alone!

 

[Chap]

I believe many of the so called "solutions" to this IDOC problem just benefit the existing winners.

Devs have to first identify the problem, then work on a solution.

I voted for "Items to be put in bank until owner returns",
Its not the best solution, but its the only solution I know atm than will 100% fix whats going on right now.

As a reference I did enjoy the felucca IDOCs a decade ago and had lots of fun at them, I believe the major problem exist in the tramel ruleset IDOCs.

 

[Max Blackoak]

yub the problem clearly is Trammel and of course the illegal scripting which again works best in Trammel :-/

 

[Lord Arm]

saving all the crap would just make an exploit to store huge amounts of items and can just reopen account to get the stuff of what is needed. only way is to stop the cheating, period or get rid of completely. it is so amazing how some people have cheated for so long and are still doing it. the only thing the devs seemed to somewhat go after is the unattended macroing. these cheaters can script to find idocs, use program to time them, then bring multi chars to all walk in and script loot. seen one guy had 20 packies/friended and really script looted nearly every chest. you can get lucky and get some stuff. only other way the cheaters use is have multi chars walk in and script loot the area. I wonder how much money has been lost due to people quitting over cheating, whether in pvp, resource gathering or idocs. the number one thing I expect from a game is a fair, honest game. just my opinions

 

[ShriNayne]

I would actually put money on the Devs listening to the wrong group during this 'discussion' and making it worse. They have a history of listening to the wrong people.

 

[jack flash uk]

guaranteed

 

[Rafman]

I have done over 1500 in my time, I understand them. I ams understand that all changes to idol have hurt me and helped people like you.

Not a personal attack, you dropped the ball as you will remember posting a screenshot with an illegal program running . Mandrake root image if I remember rightly?

Anyway, You run, ran cheat programs so yes I am surprised you are here as its because of people like you we are in this mess

I do agree that most suggestions here are by people that don't understand idocs, and want to make some sort or event or auction out of them.

Like I have said many times on here, only idocers should be having an opinion here, not someone that read about them, or did a few here or there.

The only way to solve this in my opinion, if the current team are unable to lock down the client to stop people like YOU running cheat scripts. Then EC only. Not popular I know but at least the scummy illegal programs won't run

Or like others games have a 4/6 hour restart to kill the scripts as they cannot update that quick. Or a modern version or punk buster

There's so many cheat programs out there. If your line in the sand is going to be "wah wah devs stop cheat programs" - that's fine....it's a noble goal, i don't have a problem with you guys wanting/asking for it. The problem is that it's completely unrealistic and never going to happen. It's not a question of if it should happen or not - i'm just saying it's not going to happen. Devs/EA don't have the resources to control that or change that, and they haven't for a very long-time.

If that's the extent of what this thread is going to be about i'll stop bothering. But if you want actual, simple and easy tweaks that would help improve the system a lot, I still say all the suggestions I made are dead-on, yet no one has bothered saying why or why not, outside of "no it doesn't help". I agree the public vs private house probably helps scripters too - it's just a personal pet peeve that i absolutely hate - but the other 2 suggestions about the idoc timer, and placing, would actually solve a lot of problems.

I didn't address looting specifically but I can - since it seems like the biggest problem. Here's a suggestion:

- Every item that falls at an idoc is flagged as an 'idoc item'.
- You cannot place an 'idoc item' inside a packhorse (or beetle) or inside another house for until 30 minutes after a house falls. That way - cheaters can no longer simply mass grab everything, either to put in a packy, or to put inside another loot house, etc.
- Any item you *do* loot and pick up - it stays "stuck" in your backpack for ~5-10minutes. That way - as you pick up items - you can't just grab all the bags as quickly as you can - you have to actually pick and choose your items. Since you can only hold up to 125 items/~500 stones. Forces people to actually sort through stuff before picking them up, and levels the playing field.

I still wonder about Dev's ability to sort through items. I'd like to see the grubbers programmed to actually grab/loot more items, and specifically higher end stuff - so people have to kill them to get the good stuff. Don't know if that's feasible or not though, as they seem broken.

Based on what you guys are describing with the multiple packhorses auto-looting houses - i think this would counter those problems greatly. I'd bet this is a pretty easy coding for devs to implement too.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I would actually put money on the Devs listening to the wrong group during this 'discussion' and making it worse. They have a history of listening to the wrong people.

+1

 

[MalagAste]

There's so many cheat programs out there. If your line in the sand is going to be "wah wah devs stop cheat programs" - that's fine....it's a noble goal, i don't have a problem with you guys wanting/asking for it. The problem is that it's completely unrealistic and never going to happen. It's not a question of if it should happen or not - i'm just saying it's not going to happen. Devs/EA don't have the resources to control that or change that, and they haven't for a very long-time.

If that's the extent of what this thread is going to be about i'll stop bothering. But if you want actual, simple and easy tweaks that would help improve the system a lot, I still say all the suggestions I made are dead-on, yet no one has bothered saying why or why not, outside of "no it doesn't help". I agree the public vs private house probably helps scripters too - it's just a personal pet peeve that i absolutely hate - but the other 2 suggestions about the idoc timer, and placing, would actually solve a lot of problems.

I didn't address looting specifically but I can - since it seems like the biggest problem. Here's a suggestion:

- Every item that falls at an idoc is flagged as an 'idoc item'.
- You cannot place an 'idoc item' inside a packhorse (or beetle) or inside another house for until 30 minutes after a house falls. That way - cheaters can no longer simply mass grab everything, either to put in a packy, or to put inside another loot house, etc.
- Any item you *do* loot and pick up - it stays "stuck" in your backpack for ~5-10minutes. That way - as you pick up items - you can't just grab all the bags as quickly as you can - you have to actually pick and choose your items. Since you can only hold up to 125 items/~500 stones. Forces people to actually sort through stuff before picking them up, and levels the playing field.

I still wonder about Dev's ability to sort through items. I'd like to see the grubbers programmed to actually grab/loot more items, and specifically higher end stuff - so people have to kill them to get the good stuff. Don't know if that's feasible or not though, as they seem broken.

Based on what you guys are describing with the multiple packhorses auto-looting houses - i think this would counter those problems greatly. I'd bet this is a pretty easy coding for devs to implement too.

No then they will just stand there for 30 min with there 30+ characters all in tow holding each chest and item on their finger (game curser).. so no one else can have it to wait out the timer and drop them on their pack animals like they currently do now.... it won't change the cheaters at all or in the slightest... they will still auto grab everything before it hits the ground.... they just won't let go of it for 30 min. They will still win and what you are suggest will not help at all.

 

[Rafman]

No then they will just stand there for 30 min with there 30+ characters all in tow holding each chest and item on their finger (game curser).. so no one else can have it to wait out the timer and drop them on their pack animals like they currently do now.... it won't change the cheaters at all or in the slightest... they will still auto grab everything before it hits the ground.... they just won't let go of it for 30 min. They will still win and what you are suggest will not help at all.

So find a way to counter that too. This becomes a bit more complex, as i'm not sure how easy it would be for devs to code this but maybe:

- You can only "drag" an idoc item for a maximum of 10 seconds (or 30?) before you have to drop it. Also - if you drop an idoc item on ground, you can't pick it back up before 3 seconds have passed (so you can't keep grabbing/dropping).

Or - something like that, depending on what is easy to code or not. But I suppose this could get messy/difficult.

If that doesn't work - here's another idea:

- Idoc "containers" can not be picked up at ALL for 30 minutes. This includes all backpacks, chests, pouches, etc. The only way to grab loot is to actually open them and grab items one by one. This one should be fairly easy to code I expect.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Y'all beginning to scare me. All these ideas. Remember, this is a team, that when asked to bump the loot in a tchest a little bit, completely destroyed the profession. An old T-hunter doing a map now, wouldn't know what the hell had happened.

While I would like to see some enforcement on scripting and cheating, anything requiring heavy changes and coding scares me. No telling what the end product would look like, might end up with all our houses losing their items as well...who knows? lol

 

[celticus]

Here is one NUKE BOMB for the IDOC script looters, that likely is the easiest code-wise to implement, and fair to all participants, ( But would not stop the person who has 10 accounts attending sadly):

-We already have this mechanic in the game when we visit Blackthorn's castle:

[[[ ---> Make the IDOC and immediate area pet free and move ALL the pets, rided pets or not to the STABLE! <---]]] Do this as soon as the house enters IDOC stage, and keep it that way till IDOC is over. Make it so IDOC=NO PET ZONE. ALL pets not just packies.

-This may be the easiest implementation that would slow "Mr Avatar" and Mr IDOC guy to a screeching halt.

-ADD to this the fact that the Devs KNOW and have access to the idoc timers exactly, then BE THERE when the idoc falls, and see who does what. From time to time teleport everyone there to screening location, and inspect packs. Normally looting players cannot possibly fill a backpack with 125 items in 2 seconds, etc. Make surprise NINJA visits to idocs, incognito and see the on-goings.

Muuuhahahah Mr Avatar we are coming to get you!

 

[jack flash uk]

There's so many cheat programs out there. If your line in the sand is going to be "wah wah devs stop cheat programs" - that's fine....it's a noble goal, i don't have a problem with you guys wanting/asking for it. The problem is that it's completely unrealistic and never going to happen. It's not a question of if it should happen or not - i'm just saying it's not going to happen. Devs/EA don't have the resources to control that or change that, and they haven't for a very long-time.

If that's the extent of what this thread is going to be about i'll stop bothering. But if you want actual, simple and easy tweaks that would help improve the system a lot, I still say all the suggestions I made are dead-on, yet no one has bothered saying why or why not, outside of "no it doesn't help". I agree the public vs private house probably helps scripters too - it's just a personal pet peeve that i absolutely hate - but the other 2 suggestions about the idoc timer, and placing, would actually solve a lot of problems.

I didn't address looting specifically but I can - since it seems like the biggest problem. Here's a suggestion:

- Every item that falls at an idoc is flagged as an 'idoc item'.
- You cannot place an 'idoc item' inside a packhorse (or beetle) or inside another house for until 30 minutes after a house falls. That way - cheaters can no longer simply mass grab everything, either to put in a packy, or to put inside another loot house, etc.
- Any item you *do* loot and pick up - it stays "stuck" in your backpack for ~5-10minutes. That way - as you pick up items - you can't just grab all the bags as quickly as you can - you have to actually pick and choose your items. Since you can only hold up to 125 items/~500 stones. Forces people to actually sort through stuff before picking them up, and levels the playing field.

I still wonder about Dev's ability to sort through items. I'd like to see the grubbers programmed to actually grab/loot more items, and specifically higher end stuff - so people have to kill them to get the good stuff. Don't know if that's feasible or not though, as they seem broken.

Based on what you guys are describing with the multiple packhorses auto-looting houses - i think this would counter those problems greatly. I'd bet this is a pretty easy coding for devs to implement too.

But what about the illegal script looter programs that will just keep trying until the timer expires, still quicker than by hand as you don't have to be clever with the fall time.

Though your idoc item timer is a new idea (for me anyway) it still won't hurt scripting

Sadly EC is the only way I can think. Certainly it will kill aa CC illegal scripts, but I am sure there is some grimy clever sod out there that can script the EC.........

 

[celticus]

But what about the illegal script looter programs that will just keep trying until the timer expires, still quicker than by hand as you don't have to be clever with the fall time.

Though your idoc item timer is a new idea (for me anyway) it still won't hurt scripting

Sadly EC is the only way I can think. Certainly it will kill aa CC illegal scripts, but I am sure there is some grimy clever sod out there that can script the EC.........

Killing CC, and single EC client is not a solution. First of all there is 100% chance or close to it that 3-4 scripting programs geared to it will come up. So that is a fail.
THEN and thats the worst part is that LOTS of people do not and will not use EC, due to eye problems, preferences, garbage graphics in EC etc. These people already KNOW that EC has better management options that EC is with special perks for all activities, for PVP and PVM. Yet they dont want to use it, and they use it only to organize stuff etc.
MAke a long story and long debate for years short: More people will be very unhappy with single client EC that I can guarantee you that they will leave. So not that good for the game. I suspect it will be "Coup D'etat" that will take this poor struggling for years horse out of its misery, or bring the end closer than estimated.
Whatever change to be done, should not be allowed to affect other content in the game especially some controversial items like clients, pvp etc.
The more reasonable approach is:

----> Disallow pets in IDOC area. AND:
----> NO EJ ACCOUNTS ON THE IDOC PROPERTY! Especially this one.
----> Surprise visits by GM's to check the back-packs of people there DURING the event. As mentioned, they have access to know the precise timers when the IDOC will fall.

----> There are some packet sniffing software that can be used, but it will require program code alteration that will likely ruin other aspects and bring bugs in.

Finally these options can be on a trial basis. Should not have to spend lots of time devoted to this grimy and morbid aspect of the game. Try the simplest most effective and least time consuming steps first, that will NOT cause a massive chain reaction as proposed by killing CC client.

 

[Alexey Kurkdjian]

@celticus maybe you are not aware but:
EJ accounts current cant picknup anything on Idocs.
Surprise visit by a GM? They onlynhave 2 GM for the entire US shards and you can page today and get an answer in 3 months.
The people like idocperson and his crew are using paid accounts.
Also, just so you know , killing CC aint goint to help, since you can customize scripts using Pincos UI, so will be even worst and best of all, legal.
Like others said already,ay as well put all the contents in a bank or delete idocs forever.

 

[celticus]

@celticus maybe you are not aware but:
EJ accounts current cant picknup anything on Idocs.
Surprise visit by a GM? They onlynhave 2 GM for the entire US shards and you can page today and get an answer in 3 months.
The people like idocperson and his crew are using paid accounts.
Also, just so you know , killing CC aint goint to help, since you can customize scripts using Pincos UI, so will be even worst and best of all, legal.
Like others said already,ay as well put all the contents in a bank or delete idocs forever.

Wow was not aware of this. However there are spinnoffs of UO, that have implemented IDOC contents dropping in T-hunting boxes. Hard to believe that they have much more than 1-2 people working on their UO, and chances are that some of them are kids using their basement computer as a server.
Well at least they were able to disallow EJs from IDOCS. They got that pat down codewise. I bet they can implement the NO PETS in IDOCS easily enough - That may slow down people who hoard massive amounts of junk at the idocs for themselves with 5-20 packies and beetles. So the no pets allowed in the idoc area should be for at least 1-2 hours, so if they are overloaded, as they would, they cannot call their pets to them, or the pets would go to the stable again. Then they are stuck there, overloaded. They will get to work and get their 3-4-10 other chars from 10 of their accounts to go there and try to xfer the crap to them. This will slow them a lot. BUT there is an extra step that would really screw the scripters in addition to this. They cannot move, since they are overloaded, so they are stuck there, unless they start dropping things. It can be made so that no other people can enter the idoc, other than the initial 5-7-10 whatever that were there when the idoc fell - the idoc in inaccessible to people that are being called in..Etc.. Etc..But this would call for complicated coding, and adding tags in the buffers of whoever was there at the time of idoc drop. This could srcew up things, and cause major bugs.
I think the best thing for partial remedy might be the no pet x 3 hours. It will slow them down a bit, and cause them to curse a lot lol. To put them in bank 70%-80% of time would equal to deleting the items, since most people dont come back, as witnessed by looking at shard pops. Deleting them may not be such a great idea also, since apparently they are game content.
The sign idea may be a good one, not showing house status other than the owner. When the house falls, it just falls, its unexpected by any1 and scripers have no idea or warning that house will fall. So other players will find stuff on the ground, and if not, Then the items will just vanish.
So the least complicated choice and the one with the least potential complications, and the least coding wins.
In my opinion it is the NOT SHOW THE HOUSE STATUS, EXCEPT THE HOUSE OWNER.
I think the other theorycrafting, etc are worthless, have no chance ever to be done, would take more work that the Dev team can provide, AND have serious potential complications for bugs.

 

[Spartan]

I voted to just drop it all - immediate delete. Excepting soulstones, after reading all the preceding posts I think my choice was the right one.

Y'all seem to be having a real hard time agreeing on pets, how many, mandatory distance from IDOC for them (yes? no?) and more. Drop/delete is really simple and solves a lot of the discussion points. And for the collectors out there, theoretically that rare thing might just have become rarer.

 

[celticus]

The idea was to change things without causing more damage to the game, though such as not providing players interested with content, and keep them in game and playing. But without giving the upper hand to cheaters. What is the rationale for deleting the items? Instead we take a bad thing i.e. some one leaving the game, and turn it into a positive one, i.e. possibility of some valuable items for some people. The problem is how do we randomize this process so that cheats have less impact. If you take everything into account including Dev time/effort, and the least possibility of introducing bugs, and the highest probability of being implemented and accepted by Devs and players in general, the best solution is likely some combination of choices mentioned by the posters above:

*** DO NOT SHOW STATUS ON HOUSE SIGN, just make status be visible by the house owner. This is the most important one, since it will nuke the person(s) running all over with scripts recording house statuses. (This is real sadly, not science fiction). The house may fall, items lost and that is ok.
*** NO PETS WHATSOEVER AT THE IDOC SITE, ANY AND ALL PETS just like the Blackthorn's Castle. As soon as some one approaches with pets either in tow or riding them message just like Blackthorn's message "No pets allowed etc." and poof all pets in stable instantly, as soon as they approach the drop time or at the drop time. That way no pack animals beetles, lamas, mules etc.

Doing these 2 things will do several things.
1>First, some items will be lost to deletion and that is ok. Limited deletion helps game balance. Allow "normal decay times".
2>Will still provide players with some prospect of IDOCing, and there will be running around the terrain to see what is dropped.
3>Will stop the IDOC exploiters/multibaggers, or at least slow them down a bit.
4>There will be no more IDOC listings and cataloguings for the script idocers to use.
5>Random players will be able to benefit from these, and not necessarily multibaggers/scripters.
6>No pets benefit is that a scripter will not be able to load up 5 beetles with idoc loot and get away.
7>IDOCing will be more fair to more people, and not the scripters alone.
Finally these 2 things are easy to implement and ARE MECHANICS ALREADY IN THE GAME as mentioned. All they have to do is just a little patch code, and 30 minutes of work or less and it is done. Likely the most doable of the stuff we put in this post.
If we all agree, and if we ALL agree that script looting at IDOCS is a negative for the game, then we may present these arguments to the Devs, or post in the uo Forum and see what happens and/or bring it up in meets and greets.

 

[celticus]

@celticus maybe you are not aware but:
EJ accounts current cant picknup anything on Idocs.
Surprise visit by a GM? They onlynhave 2 GM for the entire US shards and you can page today and get an answer in 3 months.
The people like idocperson and his crew are using paid accounts.
Also, just so you know , killing CC aint goint to help, since you can customize scripts using Pincos UI, so will be even worst and best of all, legal.
Like others said already,ay as well put all the contents in a bank or delete idocs forever.

Did not know about EJ's.

 

[jack flash uk]

Killing CC, and single EC client is not a solution. First of all there is 100% chance or close to it that 3-4 scripting programs geared to it will come up. So that is a fail.
THEN and thats the worst part is that LOTS of people do not and will not use EC, due to eye problems, preferences, garbage graphics in EC etc. These people already KNOW that EC has better management options that EC is with special perks for all activities, for PVP and PVM. Yet they dont want to use it, and they use it only to organize stuff etc.
MAke a long story and long debate for years short: More people will be very unhappy with single client EC that I can guarantee you that they will leave. So not that good for the game. I suspect it will be "Coup D'etat" that will take this poor struggling for years horse out of its misery, or bring the end closer than estimated.
Whatever change to be done, should not be allowed to affect other content in the game especially some controversial items like clients, pvp etc.
The more reasonable approach is:

----> Disallow pets in IDOC area. AND:
----> NO EJ ACCOUNTS ON THE IDOC PROPERTY! Especially this one.
----> Surprise visits by GM's to check the back-packs of people there DURING the event. As mentioned, they have access to know the precise timers when the IDOC will fall.

----> There are some packet sniffing software that can be used, but it will require program code alteration that will likely ruin other aspects and bring bugs in.

Finally these options can be on a trial basis. Should not have to spend lots of time devoted to this grimy and morbid aspect of the game. Try the simplest most effective and least time consuming steps first, that will NOT cause a massive chain reaction as proposed by killing CC client.

I know its a horrible idea, but I cannot think of a solution currently to kill the 3rd party script programs, the Devs sadly are not capable, but what is really disappointing is that no help is sought to deal with it. Burying heads in sand and hoping it goes away has been the battle plan for too many years now.

 

[jack flash uk]

EJ accounts are used for llama/cat/dog script timing not looting

 

[ShriNayne]

The only accounts that get banned for cheating are EJ ones, they won't ban anyone who is paying, not permanently, that's why we are in this situation, they can't afford to lose the cheaters subs.

 

[Uriah Heep]

EJ accounts are used for llama/cat/dog script timing not looting

Yeah maybe they can't pick stuff up at idocs, but they can take handoffs lol.

 

[Rafman]

Y'all beginning to scare me. All these ideas. Remember, this is a team, that when asked to bump the loot in a tchest a little bit, completely destroyed the profession. An old T-hunter doing a map now, wouldn't know what the hell had happened.

While I would like to see some enforcement on scripting and cheating, anything requiring heavy changes and coding scares me. No telling what the end product would look like, might end up with all our houses losing their items as well...who knows? lol

Obviously, this is a message of paramount importance. The Devs don't exactly have an impeccable track record when it comes to implementing even simple changes.

That's why I keep asking and talking about understanding the dev's ability to do certain things, like 'sort' idoc items, to ensure my suggestions are actually realistic.

There are probably very, very simply tweaks they can do that would be a big improvement on idocs without affecting anything else.

The idea was to change things without causing more damage to the game, though such as not providing players interested with content, and keep them in game and playing. But without giving the upper hand to cheaters. What is the rationale for deleting the items? Instead we take a bad thing i.e. some one leaving the game, and turn it into a positive one, i.e. possibility of some valuable items for some people. The problem is how do we randomize this process so that cheats have less impact. If you take everything into account including Dev time/effort, and the least possibility of introducing bugs, and the highest probability of being implemented and accepted by Devs and players in general, the best solution is likely some combination of choices mentioned by the posters above:

*** DO NOT SHOW STATUS ON HOUSE SIGN, just make status be visible by the house owner. This is the most important one, since it will nuke the person(s) running all over with scripts recording house statuses. (This is real sadly, not science fiction). The house may fall, items lost and that is ok.
*** NO PETS WHATSOEVER AT THE IDOC SITE, ANY AND ALL PETS just like the Blackthorn's Castle. As soon as some one approaches with pets either in tow or riding them message just like Blackthorn's message "No pets allowed etc." and poof all pets in stable instantly, as soon as they approach the drop time or at the drop time. That way no pack animals beetles, lamas, mules etc.

Doing these 2 things will do several things.
1>First, some items will be lost to deletion and that is ok. Limited deletion helps game balance. Allow "normal decay times".
2>Will still provide players with some prospect of IDOCing, and there will be running around the terrain to see what is dropped.
3>Will stop the IDOC exploiters/multibaggers, or at least slow them down a bit.
4>There will be no more IDOC listings and cataloguings for the script idocers to use.
5>Random players will be able to benefit from these, and not necessarily multibaggers/scripters.
6>No pets benefit is that a scripter will not be able to load up 5 beetles with idoc loot and get away.
7>IDOCing will be more fair to more people, and not the scripters alone.
Finally these 2 things are easy to implement and ARE MECHANICS ALREADY IN THE GAME as mentioned. All they have to do is just a little patch code, and 30 minutes of work or less and it is done. Likely the most doable of the stuff we put in this post.
If we all agree, and if we ALL agree that script looting at IDOCS is a negative for the game, then we may present these arguments to the Devs, or post in the uo Forum and see what happens and/or bring it up in meets and greets.

You again are simplifying things way too much.

No status on house sign does 2 things:

1. It ruins idocs. You're basically killing the playstyle. Half the fun is camping and more than that, for idoc'ers, it's all about knowing ahead of time which houses fall on which days. Randomly running around hoping to come across a house that fell ruins it. Also - so many items would be simply lost/deleted with not enough people running around and catching them quick enough.

2. You're still benefiting scripters imo. Wouldn't be too hard for scripters to run around looking for dropped houses. And they could do so automatically over and over again - faster than players. Still benefit to them.


No Pets at Idocs:

I know I was talking about pets in this thread - but you can't just "ban all pets from at/near idocs". Let's say a 7x7 falls - what's to stop me from placing my pack horse 1 tile east of the 7x7? Or is the area going to be protected bigger than that, so 5 tiles east? Ok - what if the house next door the player wants to play with his pet and it gets stabled bc house nearby is decaying within 5 tiles. What if a Treasure Hunt is in the area and pets are used to kill monsters? Mostly - i'm sure it'll create all kinds of bugs/glitches to have pets auto-stable when you approach an area. It's going to "break" a lot of things.

I know they made it so EJ accounts can't grab idoc items. Therefore, logically - it seems to me that all idoc items are "flagged" - so that the game can recognize they are not grabbable by EJ'ers. If that's true - what they should do is make it so those idoc items cannot be placed inside a pet for so many minutes after fall-time. You should see my post above for a few more accompanying suggestions.

Basically - both in your post and in the poll you're oversimplifying things way too much.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Basically - both in your post and in the poll you're oversimplifying things way too much.

Doesn't matter if we oversimplify. trust me, when this team gets through with it, it will be over-complicated. No question about that

 

[Draden]

Just returned to game a month ago and have been trying to catch up on things here on stratics as i still have a long way to go ! I am enjoying myself as is my wife but after reading all this wondering if i should go another direction .....

 

[Max Blackoak]

Just returned to game a month ago and have been trying to catch up on things here on stratics as i still have a long way to go ! I am enjoying myself as is my wife but after reading all this wondering if i should go another direction .....

don't go another direction. ignore trammel idocs and ignore the whining. there are so many fun aspects of this game it isn't worth getting hung up on something annoying as trammel idocs and scripters. enjoy the good aspects of the game. Have you tried Siege Perilous for a bit of an increased challenge?

 

[Dryzzid of Atlantic]

While I agree with you that the current IDOC system sucks and watching scripters dry loot a house before anyone else can move is frustrating, I really don't like the idea of the devs touching anything on the housing server; all of our houses will end up falling because of some backend bug and we'll get "GMs cannot replace lost items" response.

 

[Max Blackoak]

The only accounts that get banned for cheating are EJ ones, they won't ban anyone who is paying, not permanently, that's why we are in this situation, they can't afford to lose the cheaters subs.

I know a guy who's subbed account was banned for misbehaving in general chat. Surprised me when he sent me the "evidence" (chat excerpt) that was sent to him by the devs as explanation why they banned him. While I didn't agree with anything he said and wouldn't defend any of it either, I must admit I have seen worse before. I guess it's a matter of people paging or not and whether the "culprit" has had priors or not but they definitely do ban people!

 

[ShriNayne]

I honestly thought they couldn't care less about General Chat, if someone got banned for trash talking then that is just weird, with all the other things going on that they turn a blind eye to...

 

[celticus]

Obviously, this is a message of paramount importance. The Devs don't exactly have an impeccable track record when it comes to implementing even simple changes.

That's why I keep asking and talking about understanding the dev's ability to do certain things, like 'sort' idoc items, to ensure my suggestions are actually realistic.

There are probably very, very simply tweaks they can do that would be a big improvement on idocs without affecting anything else.



You again are simplifying things way too much.

No status on house sign does 2 things:

1. It ruins idocs. You're basically killing the playstyle. Half the fun is camping and more than that, for idoc'ers, it's all about knowing ahead of time which houses fall on which days. Randomly running around hoping to come across a house that fell ruins it. Also - so many items would be simply lost/deleted with not enough people running around and catching them quick enough.

2. You're still benefiting scripters imo. Wouldn't be too hard for scripters to run around looking for dropped houses. And they could do so automatically over and over again - faster than players. Still benefit to them.


No Pets at Idocs:

I know I was talking about pets in this thread - but you can't just "ban all pets from at/near idocs". Let's say a 7x7 falls - what's to stop me from placing my pack horse 1 tile east of the 7x7? Or is the area going to be protected bigger than that, so 5 tiles east? Ok - what if the house next door the player wants to play with his pet and it gets stabled bc house nearby is decaying within 5 tiles. What if a Treasure Hunt is in the area and pets are used to kill monsters? Mostly - i'm sure it'll create all kinds of bugs/glitches to have pets auto-stable when you approach an area. It's going to "break" a lot of things.

I know they made it so EJ accounts can't grab idoc items. Therefore, logically - it seems to me that all idoc items are "flagged" - so that the game can recognize they are not grabbable by EJ'ers. If that's true - what they should do is make it so those idoc items cannot be placed inside a pet for so many minutes after fall-time. You should see my post above for a few more accompanying suggestions.

Basically - both in your post and in the poll you're oversimplifying things way too much.

So its likely a given that the idoc items are somehow tagged, or the entire area of the idoc house footprint is tagged for EJ's.
What is meant with no pets, is that the area in question would include the idoc footprint, plus maybe 1 screen, that will stay so for 1 hour or till all the junk is picked up. That would cause any pets to come to unload on poof to the stable.
I like your idea also for "tagged" idoc items not loadable to pets. It is even better!
The other idea about the no status on sign is the real killer: It will make idoc statuses unrecordable, and will result if idocs dropping to the ground randomly, here and there. These idoc items are tagged. The items stay on the ground for 1-2-3? hours. Make their decay a little slower to give a chance to folks to find and pick up. If no-one picks up, the tagged items from the idoc get sent to random encounters in the game, including mongbats, so that newby folk can also benefit. Also GDs, AWs, WWs, and maybe even different Bosses in . the game. Or just allow the items to vanish into idoc heaven.

 

[Rafman]

I know a guy who's subbed account was banned for misbehaving in general chat. Surprised me when he sent me the "evidence" (chat excerpt) that was sent to him by the devs as explanation why they banned him. While I didn't agree with anything he said and wouldn't defend any of it either, I must admit I have seen worse before. I guess it's a matter of people paging or not and whether the "culprit" has had priors or not but they definitely do ban people!

They've always banned people for bad language. In fact - they have often done so excessively when a full perma ban wasn't warranted if a certain word is taken out of context. They don't exactly monitor things 24/7, so i'm sure they also let a lot of things slide in gen chat - but in general i'd say bad language is the one area where they still ban people regularly for.

It's all the other stuff that isn't enforced as much these days.

So its likely a given that the idoc items are somehow tagged, or the entire area of the idoc house footprint is tagged for EJ's.
What is meant with no pets, is that the area in question would include the idoc footprint, plus maybe 1 screen, that will stay so for 1 hour or till all the junk is picked up. That would cause any pets to come to unload on poof to the stable.
I like your idea also for "tagged" idoc items not loadable to pets. It is even better!
The other idea about the no status on sign is the real killer: It will make idoc statuses unrecordable, and will result if idocs dropping to the ground randomly, here and there. These idoc items are tagged. The items stay on the ground for 1-2-3? hours. Make their decay a little slower to give a chance to folks to find and pick up. If no-one picks up, the tagged items from the idoc get sent to random encounters in the game, including mongbats, so that newby folk can also benefit. Also GDs, AWs, WWs, and maybe even different Bosses in . the game. Or just allow the items to vanish into idoc heaven.

There are too many issues with the idea of a pet auto-stabling near an idoc. I could list a whole bunch. What's "1 screen" exactly - and what happens when that "1 screen" impacts the house next door who has the owner using his pet for something. Or what about houses that are near a treasure hunt area where you need a pet to kill stuff. What if the house next door is moving, and needs packies to carry stuff. Even worst - what if the actual "idoc" house is condemned, and the owner bought a new house and now wants to move stuff - he can no longer bring a packy to move stuff out? And that's without thinking of all the bugs or potential exploits that could be caused by this auto-stabling. It's simply a bad idea.

I think if idoc items can be tagged - not allowing them to be placed in a pack horse for up to 30 mins would be a good start. I would ALSO not allow them to be placed inside a house for 30 minutes. That way you can't just drag all the loot to a 'looting house' nearby, levels the playing field more.

The no house signs showing destroys the playstyle. Maybe you personally - and other posters here - don't care about that - but I'm pretty sure if UO was to make any changes to idocs it would be in hopes of keeping the practice alive, not doing away with it completely. Doing away with house signs lessens the chances of scripters to track idocs it's true - but it also completely eliminates the odds for anyone to do idocs.

Most idoc'ers scout once or twice a week i'd guess, and mark idocs (decay is 5-7 days, that way you don't miss any).
If you do away with house sign - you'd have to scout....what, 24 times per day if items decay within 1 hour? 8 times per day if items decay within 3 hours? It's stupid - it would completely kill the IDOC playstyle.
ALSO - in my opinion the BEST way to find houses decayed without house signs would be with scripts. It's easier for a script to run continuously 24x7 tracking for fallen houses than it is for a player to. So again - scripters would get all the spoils, even moreso than they do today, vs the non-scripters.

There are better ways to improve the system.

Finally - your idea that "items not picked up get sent to random encounters in-game". A lot of issues with that, but here are the 2 biggest ones:

1. I don't trust the devs to be able to do that. Simple enough reason - but to me if they tried to, they'd probably break a whole lot of things.

2. There are WAY too many 'idoc items'. When an 18x18 falls 3000 items fall. A castle? 5000+ items. Sometimes, 2500 of those 5000 items may be chairs and goza mats. You really want monsters and champs to be spawning with all those thousands of junk items? It only makes sense to have the game give out the idoc loot differently than they do now if they have a way to "sort" through items automatically. Ie - only grab the good items (artifacts, rares, deeds, etc) and have those awarded differently then today. So instead of just dropping on the ground for first person to pick up - maybe grubbers grab those. Or maybe an in-game encounter like you suggest (but i still think that'd be too complex to code).

 

[Uriah Heep]

2. There are WAY too many 'idoc items'. When an 18x18 falls 3000 items fall. A castle? 5000+ items. Sometimes, 2500 of those 5000 items may be chairs and goza mats. You really want monsters and champs to be spawning with all those thousands of junk items? It only makes sense to have the game give out the idoc loot differently than they do now if they have a way to "sort" through items automatically. Ie - only grab the good items (artifacts, rares, deeds, etc) and have those awarded differently then today. So instead of just dropping on the ground for first person to pick up - maybe grubbers grab those. Or maybe an in-game encounter like you suggest (but i still think that'd be too complex to code).

Let em drop on mobs...we can leave that laying in the corpse like we do all the other junk loot, lol. Atleast there will be a chance of something good

 

[MalagAste]

Again you are NOT helping ... You know that most IDOC scripters will stand there for HOURS with a heavy item on the cursor and not move ...they can stand there 30 min with a item on their cursor and wait.. all that would change with your proposal @Rafman is that they would bring more scripted looters to wait around with things on their cursors for 30 min.... They can still dry loot a house in a nanosecond.

And I've pointed out the flaw in changing the sign to be silent... they would simply just run their script to check every house more often to check for houses that have fallen... it won't stop them.

I prefer a lotto... or to put the stuff in encounters... but you don't like that because it would be fair... I am seriously starting to think you are one of the IDOC scripters... since every suggestion you make favors them.

 

[Rafman]

Again you are NOT helping ... You know that most IDOC scripters will stand there for HOURS with a heavy item on the cursor and not move ...they can stand there 30 min with a item on their cursor and wait.. all that would change with your proposal @Rafman is that they would bring more scripted looters to wait around with things on their cursors for 30 min.... They can still dry loot a house in a nanosecond.

And I've pointed out the flaw in changing the sign to be silent... they would simply just run their script to check every house more often to check for houses that have fallen... it won't stop them.

I prefer a lotto... or to put the stuff in encounters... but you don't like that because it would be fair... I am seriously starting to think you are one of the IDOC scripters... since every suggestion you make favors them.

A lotto or encounter is much more difficult and complex than you make it sound. I've pointed out why. Firstly, it's complicated and no guarantee the devs can code something like this easily (something too complicated can break other systems, or simply not be worth their time to focus on). Secondly - there are idocs with thousands of items, majority of which is junk. Nobody wants a lotto system for junk, nor should you dump massive amounts of junk in active spawns in the game, it would just cause all kinds of issues to pvm'ers having sort through all that extra junk.

You are correct about dragging a heavy chest for hours. Ok - so make it so "tagged idoc items" that are grabbed, have to be dropped from your cursor within 10 seconds or they fall to ground. Maybe even make it so once you drop an item to ground - the player who dropped it can't pick it back up for 3 seconds (so they can't just keep grabbing it).

 

[MalagAste]

A lotto or encounter is much more difficult and complex than you make it sound. I've pointed out why. Firstly, it's complicated and no guarantee the devs can code something like this easily (something too complicated can break other systems, or simply not be worth their time to focus on). Secondly - there are idocs with thousands of items, majority of which is junk. Nobody wants a lotto system for junk, nor should you dump massive amounts of junk in active spawns in the game, it would just cause all kinds of issues to pvm'ers having sort through all that extra junk.

You are correct about dragging a heavy chest for hours. Ok - so make it so "tagged idoc items" that are grabbed, have to be dropped from your cursor within 10 seconds or they fall to ground. Maybe even make it so once you drop an item to ground - the player who dropped it can't pick it back up for 3 seconds (so they can't just keep grabbing it).

They will just have their script pick it back up when it drops... again NOT helping or changing anything for them at all. Or they will have their script have another of their multitude of characters pick it up and pass it back and forth that won't help real players at all...

All the proposals for IDOCs that I've seen barring a Lotto or to have the stuff go elsewhere just favors scripters... not having packies??? really ? How does that help?

If they can't stop the scripting then they need to stop having the IDOCs drop stuff on the ground period.

 

[Rafman]

They will just have their script pick it back up when it drops... again NOT helping or changing anything for them at all.

That's where "can't pick it back up for 3 seconds" comes into play.

I think you guys are over-complicating things with Lotto and other major changes. I say keep it simple. Look at the specific tasks that the scripters are doing that give them a big benefit, and try to come up with ways to void those tasks in the simplest ways possible.

Pick up chests automatically and drop them into packies? Great - can't drop 'idoc items' into a packy for 30 mins.
Grab items and hold on their cursor endlessly? Great - can't hold an "idoc item" on your cursor for more than 10 seconds.
When an item falls back down they just grab it again faster than anyone else can? Great - when you drop an "idoc item" to the ground from your cursor after 10 seconds, you get a 3 second delay to pick it back up.

Other common complaints:

5/10/15 hours is too long and benefits scripters who have exact time, vs those who have to manually wait up to 15 hours at an idoc? Great - have the house sign turn RED 1 hour before fall time to give everyone fair warning. Maybe even a follow up GREEN sign for 10 minute warning, helping even more.
Scripters have an advantage at placing? Great - make it so instead of spot opening up randomly during 2 hours to place, benefiting the scripter who keeps on trying - give a specific 5min warning before you can place so everyone has a fair chance.

I feel like i'm the only one in this thread coming up with suggestions to actually counter the advantages you guys are saying scripters have at idocs today.

 

[MalagAste]

That's where "can't pick it back up for 3 seconds" comes into play.

I think you guys are over-complicating things with Lotto and other major changes. I say keep it simple. Look at the specific tasks that the scripters are doing that give them a big benefit, and try to come up with ways to void those tasks in the simplest ways possible.

Pick up chests automatically and drop them into packies? Great - can't drop 'idoc items' into a packy for 30 mins.
Grab items and hold on their cursor endlessly? Great - can't hold an "idoc item" on your cursor for more than 10 seconds.
When an item falls back down they just grab it again faster than anyone else can? Great - when you drop an "idoc item" to the ground from your cursor after 10 seconds, you get a 3 second delay to pick it back up.

Other common complaints:

5/10/15 hours is too long and benefits scripters who have exact time, vs those who have to manually wait up to 15 hours at an idoc? Great - have the house sign turn RED 1 hour before fall time to give everyone fair warning. Maybe even a follow up GREEN sign for 10 minute warning, helping even more.
Scripters have an advantage at placing? Great - make it so instead of spot opening up randomly during 2 hours to place, benefiting the scripter who keeps on trying - give a specific 5min warning before you can place so everyone has a fair chance.

I feel like i'm the only one in this thread coming up with suggestions to actually counter the advantages you guys are saying scripters have at idocs today.

Falls back to the ground where one of their other bots will just pick it back up..... how does that stop them??? It doesn't... How does not having packies there benefit ANYONE??? The scripters will just pass it on from one to the next out of the zone in less than 2 seconds and put it on a waiting packy out of the area... again... this is a scripters DREAM you are talking about... they will still script and bot the IDOCs clean.....

 

[Rafman]

They will just have their script pick it back up when it drops... again NOT helping or changing anything for them at all. Or they will have their script have another of their multitude of characters pick it up and pass it back and forth that won't help real players at all...

All the proposals for IDOCs that I've seen barring a Lotto or to have the stuff go elsewhere just favors scripters... not having packies??? really ? How does that help?

If they can't stop the scripting then they need to stop having the IDOCs drop stuff on the ground period.

You edited your post. "Have the stuff go elsewhere". Where?

I've not played a lot lately but i keep hearing about how EM Events are full of BOTs getting the best items. Where are you sending your idoc items? To a peerless boss? Or to spawn on monsters in dungeon shame? Or - where specifically? Because i'm pretty sure if they can easily set up to fight an EM Event BOSS with so many chars at once to earn most of the top items - they'll do the same with whatever "encounter/spawn" you send the idoc items to with even more ease. You're not fixing the problem, just displacing it.

As for a lotto...I'd love to hear a suggestion that:

1. Is realistic/simple enough for the Devs to code, vs a pipe dream/something that would never happen
2. Takes into account the fact that in a typical idoc with ~3000 items - 2000 items at least are usually complete junk/trash. Am I bidding 10M$ to end up with 3 goza mats?

 

[MalagAste]

Have the stuff go to high end mobs, have the stuff go to a lotto, have the stuff go into T-chests and chests in dungeons... have the stuff go to the owners bankbox... Which is IMO a horrible prospect and will pretty much remove everything from the game... eventually but it would stop the IDOC scripting. We all know that most people aren't coming back to UO.

No bidding a lotto would have a single bid per account... PAID account. 100k or whatever gold sink... bidding only favors the rich.

And yes you could get 125 rocks... I'm sure they could remove goza mats from the loot...

 

[Rafman]

Have the stuff go to high end mobs, have the stuff go to a lotto, have the stuff go into T-chests and chests in dungeons... have the stuff go to the owners bankbox... Which is IMO a horrible prospect and will pretty much remove everything from the game... eventually but it would stop the IDOC scripting. We all know that most people aren't coming back to UO.

No bidding a lotto would have a single bid per account... PAID account. 100k or whatever gold sink... bidding only favors the rich.

And yes you could get 125 rocks... I'm sure they could remove goza mats from the loot...

Do you believe the Devs are capable of coding the system to have all ~3000 items that are inside an idoc that falls at let's say 330pm automatically be sent to a Mob, or a tchest, or a dungeon? I'm pretty sure they don't...

Are you talking about spreading out through all those avenues, or just picking one? Spreading out through Tchests, and mobs, and dungeons.....now you're "touching" all of those systems that work well today and changing them and likely causing issues. I'm sure within the first day all T-hunters will complain that we broke treasure chests. Those who like doing shadowguard will complain that their boss now spawns junk, and so on.

If you're talking about sending them all to one same avenue (so just Shadowguard, or just Tchets, just pick one option) - again, if a BOT can win out the top loot at an EM event, i'm sure it's even easier for them to do so in those avenues. So instead of "camping idocs" they'd just "camp shadow-guard", or "script thunts". You're displacing the problem, not fixing it.

Lotto. Ok so house falls and it goes into a lotto. There were 3000 items in the idoc. I bid 100k. You bid 200k. The next 8 people bid 300k, and so on. What happens at the end? Explain the idea. Does the highest bidder get ALL the items? Some? Like I said it's easy to say "do a lotto" but i would love to hear an actual lotto system that would work.

And no - i don't think they could just "remove gozas from the loot". Do you expect gms to manually sort through all the loot before an auction? Lol. What if some people WANT Gozas? And outside of gozas - there would be chairs, benches, cut cloth, all kinds of other junk items....

There's no logic in any of your counters

Falls back to the ground where one of their other bots will just pick it back up..... how does that stop them??? It doesn't... How does not having packies there benefit ANYONE??? The scripters will just pass it on from one to the next out of the zone in less than 2 seconds and put it on a waiting packy out of the area... again... this is a scripters DREAM you are talking about... they will still script and bot the IDOCs clean.....

Also to respond to this. The idea is that all items that fall at an idoc are tagged as "idoc items". For 30 mins, you can't drop them into a packy. So you can't just drag the item out of zone and drop it in a packy there.

If you think scripters have the ability to program scripters to automatically keep handing each other 3000 items worth of chests every 3-10 seconds for up to 30 minutes - I think you're seriously overestimating their capabilities. Sure they would still get some items - but a lot, lot less.

 

[MalagAste]

Do you believe the Devs are capable of coding the system to have all ~3000 items that are inside an idoc that falls at let's say 330pm automatically be sent to a Mob, or a tchest, or a dungeon? I'm pretty sure they don't...

Are you talking about spreading out through all those avenues, or just picking one? Spreading out through Tchests, and mobs, and dungeons.....now you're "touching" all of those systems that work well today and changing them and likely causing issues. I'm sure within the first day all T-hunters will complain that we broke treasure chests. Those who like doing shadowguard will complain that their boss now spawns junk, and so on.

If you're talking about sending them all to one same avenue (so just Shadowguard, or just Tchets, just pick one option) - again, if a BOT can win out the top loot at an EM event, i'm sure it's even easier for them to do so in those avenues. So instead of "camping idocs" they'd just "camp shadow-guard", or "script thunts". You're displacing the problem, not fixing it.

Lotto. Ok so house falls and it goes into a lotto. There were 3000 items in the idoc. I bid 100k. You bid 200k. The next 8 people bid 300k, and so on. What happens at the end? Explain the idea. Does the highest bidder get ALL the items? Some? Like I said it's easy to say "do a lotto" but i would love to hear an actual lotto system that would work.

And no - i don't think they could just "remove gozas from the loot". Do you expect gms to manually sort through all the loot before an auction? Lol. What if some people WANT Gozas? And outside of gozas - there would be chairs, benches, cut cloth, all kinds of other junk items....

There's no logic in any of your counters



Also to respond to this. The idea is that all items that fall at an idoc are tagged as "idoc items". For 30 mins, you can't drop them into a packy. So you can't just drag the item out of zone and drop it in a packy there.

If you think scripters have the ability to program scripters to automatically keep handing each other 3000 items worth of chests every 3-10 seconds for up to 30 minutes - I think you're seriously overestimating their capabilities. Sure they would still get some items - but a lot, lot less.

Scripters can easily program it to grab nearest chest... yes they can they already do... and they can put as many there as they want passing them back and forth dropping and picking up just in the blink of an eye have you seen them do it at IDOCs? I have... they drop the item for a millisecond and pick it back up after one of their other bots loots some stuff out of it to make it lighter.... I've seen them... but you can't grab it from them it happens too fast.

 

[Sellingahouse]

I think the biggest problem with idocs is the cheaters, most can agree with that. The cheaters need to be stopped. UO needs to find a way to stop/ banned all of them. what happened with punkbuster (I think that is what it was called) it was going to catch or stop the scripters right? They find a way to stop the cheaters and it wouldn't only be for IDOCs and house placer scripters but all the cheaters in game like PvP and at em events.

If they changed IDOCs it will not stop the cheaters they will just find another way. There is nothing that the dev team can do in game that is simple, anything they do will take tons of time and might cause new bugs.

Maybe find out why they cheat. I think most might do it so they can sell for RL $. If UO did sell gold it might hurt them enough so they stop? If I bought gold I would rather buy from UO so the make more $ and can hire more devs. That probably wouldn't work anyways, the cheaters would just sell it for cheaper than UO could. I just think if they are going to spend TONS of time making a change to IDOCs it should be finding a way to stop all the cheating.

At the meet and greet on SP the other day, Mesanna did say she has some ideas, wants to make one great change and will make a post on forums to get our feedback.

 

[SugarMMM]

Raffle FTW.

Or

This topic reminds me of how a parent sometimes deals with a toy that 2 kids are fighting over.... they take it away so neither of them get it. IE: delete it!

 

[Rafman]

You don't get how a lotto works do you..... I'm talking about a lottery ...... NOT an AUCTION... HUGE difference... people only bid per account... 100k... if they win they spent 100k on whatever it was ... No bidder random who wins it... go pick up your stuff and move on .... didn't get chosen to get an item you are out 100k. Yes there are junk items... there are always junk items in ALL LOOT... It's already stuff you sort through... but yet you could get 25 etherial mounts... or you could get 3 or 4 EM drops.... it's a lottery ... and Yes I am sure they can code it since all the stuff in your house is already digital in their warehouse of items... You think the game physically stores items??? NO they are all coded somewhere ..... so yes they know each and every item in your home as that all gets backed up each and every day on the server anyway at server down... So yes they can easily take that information and distribute it.... and they can easily remove goza mats from the equation...

Again I think you are arguing because you ARE an IDOC scripter and you know exactly how you can game any change but one that would be fair.

I don't get why you're being so aggressive and defensive at the same time. Clearly no - I was confused between Lotto and Auction - which is why I keep asking you to explain your idea. Can you walk me through your idea?

So a castle idoc falls. There are 5000 items in there. Some NPC pops up - "buy a lotto ticket for 100k". 45 accounts show up, each buys a ticket for 100k.

What happens then?

1 winner wins ALL 5000 items? If so - how do they get the items?
Or are you wanting to separate the 5000 items into multiple winners?
Keep in mind that 1 person getting all 5000 items would be absolutely ridiculous imo. Also - if you split the items, how? Explain the logic behind it.

Finally - if 45 accounts show up to bid 100k for a lotto - I expect you personally will have what....2, maybe 3 accounts? The scripter who is running 20 bots with 20 packies will have 20 accounts to buy a lotto ticket on. He'll win more often than anyone else sounds like, no?

Finally - no i still don't think they can "easily remove goza mats" as you say. But goza mats was just one example. There are chairs. Pieces of cloth. Individual reagents. All kinds of massive items that are considered junk/trash when an idoc falls. Who decides what makes the cut or not at idocs, or do you just keep all 5000 items in the lotto?

Scripters can easily program it to grab nearest chest... yes they can they already do... and they can put as many there as they want passing them back and forth dropping and picking up just in the blink of an eye have you seen them do it at IDOCs? I have... they drop the item for a millisecond and pick it back up after one of their other bots loots some stuff out of it to make it lighter.... I've seen them... but you can't grab it from them it happens too fast.

How do you expect the guy whose running those 20 scripters with packies to make it so they pass multiple chests between themselves endlessly - when you include a 3 second drop rule, and a 10 second cursor hold rule - for 30 mins straight? I think you're massively overestimating what's possible and not for those guys.

If what you say is true (and i don't believe it) - an alternative could be, you simply cannot pick up any "containers" from an idoc for 30mins. They stay locked down on ground - so people have to manually sort through loot in those and pick and choose items. It takes a lot of a scripter's edge away.

I think the biggest problem with idocs is the cheaters, most can agree with that. The cheaters need to be stopped. UO needs to find a way to stop/ banned all of them. what happened with punkbuster (I think that is what it was called) it was going to catch or stop the scripters right? They find a way to stop the cheaters and it wouldn't only be for IDOCs and house placer scripters but all the cheaters in game like PvP and at em events.

If they changed IDOCs it will not stop the cheaters they will just find another way. There is nothing that the dev team can do in game that is simple, anything they do will take tons of time and might cause new bugs.

Maybe find out why they cheat. I think most might do it so they can sell for RL $. If UO did sell gold it might hurt them enough so they stop? If I bought gold I would rather buy from UO so the make more $ and can hire more devs. That probably wouldn't work anyways, the cheaters would just sell it for cheaper than UO could. I just think if they are going to spend TONS of time making a change to IDOCs it should be finding a way to stop all the cheating.

At the meet and greet on SP the other day, Mesanna did say she has some ideas, wants to make one great change and will make a post on forums to get our feedback.

UO selling gold for $$ is something I would have expected to happen a long time ago. But that wouldn't change anything. Supply and demand - gold would just be sold for less elsewhere. It's always been that way.

It may not be UO itself - but many of the broker websites used to sell gold. Those prices are always high. When players sell gold not through a website, it's cheaper. Same would happen here.

If you yourself wanted to buy 2 plat worth of gold. Why would you pay twice the cash to buy from UO? You wouldn't. This wouldn't solve anything.

As to the idea of "stopping cheaters" - I have no issue with that. It's a noble goal/idea - i just think it's wholly unrealistic and never going to happen. Better to find specific simple solutions to counters issues.

 

[Rafman]

Raffle FTW.

Or

This topic reminds me of how a parent sometimes deals with a toy that 2 kids are fighting over.... they take it away so neither of them get it. IE: delete it!

Fantastic idea. Let's delete IDOCs.

On an unrelated note - do you know scripters also cheat at EM Events? Let's delete those too.

Also - I've heard of scripters who are able to run shadowguard while AFK. Cool - let's delete that one too.

BODS? Delete those too.

Let's keep going...