Why should I play low chance at reward content when...

[Xris]

As I've said before other games have had similar problems and they have found solutions, it's easier to just say 'well we tried one thing and it didn't work so we gave up!' If they had bothered putting anything into a properly conceived new player experience they could have tackled the problems, some other games segregate new players in their own area for a reason. Forcing a certain level of skill and completion of set quests to move on to the game proper can deter gold sellers. It's too late now, they don't have the manpower, resources or desire to stop this.

Ya it's just manpower really. Every mmo has RMT sites. Larger games have the staff to investigate and enforce.

 

[Thoronnar]

What is really silly for a lot of people, is this question:
--How much money you make per hour in your work? Likely at least the minimum wage of $14-15? And even more likely anywhere from $25-$100 (as a plumber thats easy). Thats the RL $ in just ONE hour.
--To the spawns will take you what? 10 hours? 20? 40? 100? To get useful PS. Not Macing..
--To a lot of players, time is money : Spending $15-20-30 to fully 120 PS one pet is usually LESS than one hour's work. Compare that with Champ spawning in Fel for many hours, weeks, months to get some really useful PS.
--PS for pets is NOT end-game content, and pets are not end-game, they are a means to an end.
--This is real-life logic, taking into account real people with real work and time obligations.
--Lots of people (lots of new subs as I've seen also), go the shortcut of RMT. I don't think they are unreasonable. They have the above reasons for it. I am sure they do not enjoy cheating, but they don't have weeks, or months free, and they have other things to do, plus they want to do their taming play.
--Yes buying PS from RMT IS cheating in a way. I hate it, detest it, never done it and will never do. But I also enjoy being a bum in this game. But thats me. I hate fancy items and gear unless I find some in game. I also hate the goofy Hawkwind Robe looks and don't want to buy one (unless they change it to a doublet, or other look lol). Other people feel differently. I don't blame them for cheating with buying RMT items including PS, ESPECIALLY PS for pets. I do have a bunch of good PS that I got from spawns, but not using them, due to an unstable pet system, and most importantly, lack of time to play lol.
You create a spec pet, 120 PS, then the ner-fhovercraft comes by and oops, pet is junked. They should allow us to RESPEC pets, one way or another, also by the way. That would make it safer perhaps to apply pet specs and PS more comfortably. Still waiting..
--Also, not everyone has the time to do these spawns for hours, weeks, months to get the correct ones to show up, and not every tamer has the desire or feel the fun doing them.
Also you mention hard earned money?
--Hard earned money = $20? --> Hard to find TIME to get all 120's for one Cu translated to US dollars = 20 hours at the least (bad RND) X $25/hour average --> $500 ??? Lots more hard earned money to do the spawn time way. That is how most people think about it, and it is real-life related.
--That is why RMT - PS is a reality, and MANY people are likely doing it.
--The drop rate for trully pet PS is LOW at best, if you talk to more than two people. The first thing the should do as a quickie band-aid is to change the "Pet Useful PS" PUP drop rate ASAP, and let people know when that happens.
--Many other solutions have been mentioned elsewhere is Stratics to this issue. Including EA/BS getting onboard the PS RMT game with the UO in game store. As things are, due to the great need for PS for pets THEY have created, someone ELSE is making good US$ out of it. UO needs the $ anyway. What are they waiting for?

So what? you think then PS should be more expensive then? I mean if it takes 10 hours to collect around 200-300mil worth of PS in game (which is an over statement unless you are really slow at spawning). Then $100/hr of your time means that 200mil in game = $1,000. This logic is incredibly flawed and I'll tell you why. For starters, using this logic, then everything should be a much easier drop, that counts PvP items that cost over 200 mil, "cheap" pvp items that cost 70 mil, "cheap" artifacts that cost 50mil. They are ALL rare, and harder to drop than 120 PS, so what YOU are asking is making the ENTIRE game easier. Oh wait, no you're not, because in your logic, all that matters are tamers.... So if you want to have over 10 pets all scrolled up to 120, I also want over 10 chars all suited and scrolled for PvP. After all, my time cost $$$$.

But here is where your logic is to the max of absurdity. My favorite hobbies are public land archery hunting and fishing. It takes weeks to bag a large animal, weeks and it costs so much money in equipment I could just go to Costco and buy meat for much less, since my time is worth so much. The reality is that I see my hobby as what it is A HOBBY, NOT A JOB, so I enjoy the entire process, it is NOT about the meat, it is about the challenge. So UO is a game, and MOST of us, see it for what it is A GAME A HOBBY. So **** now I would NOT pay $1,000 for 300mil, but yes, I would play for ONE HOUR each day to eventually collect the 300mil, or maybe play 6 hrs on a Sunday here and there. Why? because I have fun playing the game.

And I am sorry, but having a pet scrolled with 120's IS end game. My two Cu sidhes (yes I only have two cause that's all I need) are scrolled with 115's and I can solo all peerless... that sounds like end game to me....

If you want to play the game.... you HAVE to play the game, stop seeing it as work because it isn't. An hour of playtime does not equal an hour of work, that's just the most absurd analogy I've heard in my entire life in UO.

With that said, I am not against people going and spending their real life money in the game, because they enjoy collecting colored pets all scrolled to 120. That is their choice, they like rares, and rares are supposed to be RARES. But instant gratification is a real thing. Is UO gold relatively cheap? well yeah, it is all just a bunch of pixels and a game after all, stop comparing a computer game with real life, that is just extremely sad.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

For example, take 50 bucks out of petty cash and buy several items from him on various shards at various times over a 3-4 week period. They could log the information from all of the accounts used for each transaction. Should be enough to cross match his name and all of the accounts associated with him. This same approach could be used for the other RMT sites to ban and delete their duped goods too.

Give me a break. You DO realize that is WAY too much like common sense for @Mesanna , RIGHT? hehe Of course, doing this would indicate that she WANTS to do something to her, in all likelihood, friends. The "fact" that they have a lot of accounts, and it would cripple/end the game, holds "no water" with me. You either HAVE integrity, or you don't. There is ZERO middle ground. I mean, come on, I have PERSONALLY sent @Mesanna screen shot after screen shot of PROOF of RMT's and she has yet to do SQUAT about it! But then again, these people are "Broker" types, or "Realtor" types, or "Idoc" types", or the "Rares Collector" types. Which is a whole different topic.

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

-- Those complaining about the drop rate of 120's at Champ Spawns make me ponder just how they're running Champ Spawns? I run at least one a day and 4 or 5 days a week I'm running 2-3 a day. So that's ... what? On the low end ... *maths is hard* ... 11 Champ Spawns in Fel a week? [[T2A, not dungeons]]

Out of those 11 spawns, I average at least 9 120 scrolls ... without a Protector. With a Protector, you're look at at least 18 120's.

Now, if I'm running those 11 Champ Spawns with other people? Yes, my drop rate for 120's is going to be hella low.

But I run my spawns solo, with the exception of my Protector. And I let him keep all the scrolls he gets when I drop a Champ. If he can't join me at a spawn, I log in a second account for a Protector.

Static content just needs a time investment from people. If you're running one Lady M a week? You'll never get a glacial blue hair dye or a crimson.

If you're running Roof once a week? You'll never get cameos.

The drop rate becomes a massive issue for timed events. The Halloween event? Yes, this year they had it running for two full months so the drops weren't too terrible to get. But the Christmas event? Oh my lord ... The time investment for Krampus was beyond insane. Trade Orders that could not use a moongate at all ... AND then you had to contend with a really low drop rate for good items from Krampus, even if you'd run a lot of Trade Orders to help you increase your chances. Very, very few people who play UO have the ability (or desire) to spend 12-14 hours a day in game just for a chance at a limited event item because it takes THAT MUCH dedication to obtain them on your own.

So when the Devs make these limited time events for Halloween or Christmas or Anniversary time ... they need to raise the drop rate for them.

 

[Marquis de Sade 209]

I solo (or run with a friend) a large number of champ spawns and get a decent amount of 120's. I do notice a lot of archery scrolls for some reason but when i do get a decent scroll it makes it all that much sweeter. I never did care for the crappy risk vs. reward ratio to be honest. I remember running the wyvern spawn in the abyss 10 straight times and not getting one drop, which turns out to be a complete waste of time. If I only played UO and didn't have a life outside of the game it wouldn't be so bad but my time in UO is limited and I would like to get some sense of achievement when i do play.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I'm not quite sure I understand the logic on this. Legendary scrolls are meant to be more rare and take longer to get, surely? That's where they get their value from. That's why it's more satisfying when they drop. There's certain stuff in the game that should be rare.

They do not seem to be too "rare" for the sites and folks who always have plenty on hand...

On a related note.. told my wife I am probably going to use some of our savings and our "tax refund" this year to buy a house. I wonder how long it will be before she realizes the "house" I will buy is a Castle on Atlantic..

Hell naw I ain't really doing that... she would likely go all Lorena Bobbit on me...

 

[Xris]

They do not seem to be too "rare" for the sites and folks who always have plenty on hand...

On a related note.. told my wife I am probably going to use some of our savings and our "tax refund" this year to buy a house. I wonder how long it will be before she realizes the "house" I will buy is a Castle on Atlantic..

Hell naw I ain't really doing that... she would likely go all Lorena Bobbit on me...

A 20+ year old mmo that still has pixels selling for 800$. UO is a winner in my book.

 

[Arrgh]

@Kyronix why should I play low chance at reward content when I can just buy the rewards for real money from users Avatar, Avatar2, Avatar3, Avatar4, Avatar5, Avatar6, Avatar7?

Context: My friends and I have been champ-spawning quite a bit for several weeks. We are not getting legendary scrolls. One of my friends gave up and bought the scrolls he needed for his pet from the third party site that I am not allowed to mention here. He now has a cu sidhe that is fully 120-scrolled up.

@Kyronix if this is not what you wanted him to do, perhaps you should think about selling that stuff* in the official Ultima store.

... but better yet,
o increase the drop rate of the legendary scrolls
o introduce pet-only scrolls (see the "wish list" thread) to drop from *every* champ, boss, and over-grandmaster monster (because you have to wonder how those over-grandmaster monsters got that way -- must have been by eating those scrolls, right?)
o change the ratios of scrollbinding to something reasonable, say, four 105s to get a 110; four 110s to get a 115; two 115s to get a 120.
o locate the person/people on the Dev Team who have a gambling problem and do not let him/her/them set unreasonably low drop rates. If it's going to take more than two years to get the scrolls for one pet, that's too long. Get out your calculator and start with a reasonable time of play of a particular content to get the rewards.

*Somewhat edited to remove incidences of "omelet," "pancake," "waffle-hat"

I approve this message. I've damn near just quit playing after 20 odd years, since beta, however long ago that was. Either sell the scrolls online, make the odds much easier to get them, look at the above message and take notes, take other suggestions that don't cater to the 1% of the player base making bank. Low populations servers it's hard to find 2-3 ppl logged in at the same time wanting to do the same thing and the servers that do have them are so damn old they can afford to blow 20-40m for a wrestling scroll to put on a pet, not to mention if they aren't old enough to have Xfer shields they have to fork out even more to get to a shard that ACTUALLY has scrolls and then back to home shard. It's a lot easier to want to log in and a LOT more entertaining to NOT have to deal with crap when getting scrolls by just visiting one of the sites that shall not be mentioned. I have worked my ass off for many years, the last thing I want to do is to come home and gamble on getting scrolls or paying close to 300-400m+ to scroll up a pet, just because they keep catering to 1% of the population. Of course we'll have the 1% of the UO population crying about it and as usual I am guessing they'll be catered to rather than the majority of players. I was sick of PvP the 1st 5 years of UO (when AoS came out) and after 4 years of Aion, screw PvP period.

It's much more fun and a LOT less insulting to just play Test Server, no lack of scrolls and no BS prices, wipe the server and I'll just start all over. The way things are going, free shards are looking better and better and better.

 

[TimberWolf]

The only weird part is that Broadsword religiously refuses to pick up any of that money..

I am speculating it is because they can't touch any of it..... all those profits go to the people selling the Sovereigns.
I would suggest the UO store was forced onto Broadsword by EA. They have repeatedly stated that all of their franchises have to have monetization.
I would guess Bonnie is fighting a holding action trying to limit the pay to play feel because there is no benefit to game play budget.

 

[Promathia]

im pretty sure Avatar AKA UltimaOnline codes has ties with broadsword or EA, pretty sure they are getting a kickback, one this dude has been around forever and they have done nothing about him, two they have not shut down the website and three I have ignored every aspect of that name but yet he still pops up in my chat.

The reason you ignore doesn't work, is because its not the same Avatar/Account. Why isn't it the same character/account? Because the previous ones were most likely banned.

Its not like UO has unique names. Just because you see the same name in chat does not mean anything.

 

[Whitewolf of *VK*]

The reason you ignore doesn't work, is because its not the same Avatar/Account. Why isn't it the same character/account? Because the previous ones were most likely banned.

Its not like UO has unique names. Just because you see the same name in chat does not mean anything.

yea that makes sense, it didn't dawn on me your ignoring the account not the name

 

[Blackie]

Two things never cease to amaze me in UO....

#1 - People getting in a huff if others play differently than they do or have something they can't

#2 - Adults arguing about pixel politics

Play your game how you see fit, enjoy it. If some dude trades in an hour's pay instead of 24 hours of his life for an item that's their business. Let Mesanna sort it out.

So long as someone is putting in the time to get the items it's not changing anything and from what I see Mesanna and team do act on duping so... just play and don't worry how others play.

 

[MalagAste]

Two things never cease to amaze me in UO....

#1 - People getting in a huff if others play differently than they do or have something they can't

#2 - Adults arguing about pixel politics

Play your game how you see fit, enjoy it. If some dude trades in an hour's pay instead of 24 hours of his life for an item that's their business. Let Mesanna sort it out.

So long as someone is putting in the time to get the items it's not changing anything and from what I see Mesanna and team do act on duping so... just play and don't worry how others play.

That's sort of how I feel except when it comes to multiboxing and scripting... using illegal 3rd party programs and yes duping...

I mean I don't care if someone is scripting/macroing gaining skills... we all know how boring that is... but when it comes to things like making billions selling for RL money making a job/income out of the game that hurts the economy of the game and hurts other players and in the duping.... hurts the very game as it takes money away from EA/UO and when UO loses enough and isn't making enough ..... we no longer will have a game to play. THAT bothers me.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Play your game how you see fit, enjoy it. If some dude trades in an hour's pay instead of 24 hours of his life for an item that's their business. Let Mesanna sort it out.

1) it IS against the rules, and is a slap in the face to everyone who DOES follow the rules, 2) the fact that people will pay real $$$ is a HUGE part of why people use scripts/cheats/etc... an example is(some of) the multiboxxers at EM events. They have to multibox to get at least 1 (or more) of the drops on a regular basis to sell for gold, to then turn around and sell the gold for $$$$ Another is, the people who run the scripts at IDOCS, to find IDOCS, to loot IDOCS, etc. If people didn't pay for the items, the gold produced from selling the items, or the home script placed then there would be no need to do so.

The bottom line is, BOTH the buyers AND the sellers are bad for the game. The ones who hide behind some "moral" compass of "But I provide a service" "I only make a few $$$ a month" "I'm not doing it to pay my mortgage, only to take my wife and kids out once in a while" are FOOLING themselves. They are even worse. AS are the ones who "pretend" they are all innocent and good. UNTIL you ICQ/PM then a screenshot of their ads/posts buying and/or selling gold/items. End of story.

So no, it's NOT just THEIR business, it's our business as well.

 

[Lore]

I can see the perspective the Pro RMT people have and I understand it and am not mad about it. I've bought stuff too when I played. It's still not good for the video game. It may not happen often, but just one bad experience with something like this can totally ruin a game for people. I'm not talking like them stealing your money and not giving you stuff... I'm talking like one of your nights you had planned to go farm something is now being camped by a third-party seller or no matter how low you price something you keep getting undercut... or no matter how long you farm gold, someone can just buy it... making playing the game useless.

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

no matter how low you price something you keep getting undercut... or no matter how long you farm gold, someone can just buy it... making playing the game useless.

To the first point:

The economy in UO is just like any real world economy. Vendor Search was actually a godsend for us vendor house owners. I never put anything on my vendors without first checking the VS on my home shard and also the VS on Atlantic to check the current prices.

I won't lie: I get accused a lot (my friends, with half-serious teasing) that my vendor house is bad for the economy on my shard because I price everything about 5-10% below the lowest price I find on VS - but I'd rather undercut everyone on the shard and have my stuff move off my vendors before the vendor fees eat any profits I could make. [[And I really couldn't care less if other vendors shop my house to buy stuff and then resell on their vendors at higher rates. In fact, good for those who do because I still get the gold I wanted and they make a tidy little profit for very little effort.]]

To the second point:

Does anyone "farm gold" anymore?

So many times I've run through Fel dungeons or T2A and found a champ spawn that's been recently finished and literally all of the gold is still laying on the ground.

Others are more focus on the loot on the corpse at Shadowguard and they leave that few mil on the ground, too, without bothering to pick any of it up.

I mean, working Fame up at Miasma can net you a tidy little sum in the time it takes to go from 0 Fame to Lord/Lady status ... but people really only care about the chests at Miasma anyway.

I've made well over 2 plat in this game just by actually playing and selling things on vendors, or in Gen Chat, or when other people ask for them in Gen Chat.

Yes, most people in the game won't see plat upon plat of gold in their bank balance sheets - but it's nowhere near as difficult to make gold in UO as it once was.

 

[Riyana]

Dissatisfying game mechanics are not a reason to allow or encourage illegal third party RMT. They are a reason to improve game mechanics.

Allowing RMT to run unchecked doesn't improve the game itself, it just makes it so they don't have to improve it because enough people just circumvent with RMT purchasing that the problems are less visible than they would be otherwise. I think in UO it has actually become a sort of feedback loop wherein future changes to the game work with/around the RMT and the various other cheating that go hand in hand with it, which makes increasing difficulties for honest players. See: IDOC changes, resource gathering, BOD points, drop rates, EM events, shard transfers, grinds, etc.

I think a lot of the people still playing and paying for UO are the people who invested their time and their love into the game. That's a lot harder to walk away from than something you tossed some cash at to jump ahead... it's years long labors of love and community involvement versus an entertainment expense.

 

[kaio]

To the first point:

The economy in UO is just like any real world economy. Vendor Search was actually a godsend for us vendor house owners. I never put anything on my vendors without first checking the VS on my home shard and also the VS on Atlantic to check the current prices.

I won't lie: I get accused a lot (my friends, with half-serious teasing) that my vendor house is bad for the economy on my shard because I price everything about 5-10% below the lowest price I find on VS - but I'd rather undercut everyone on the shard and have my stuff move off my vendors before the vendor fees eat any profits I could make. [[And I really couldn't care less if other vendors shop my house to buy stuff and then resell on their vendors at higher rates. In fact, good for those who do because I still get the gold I wanted and they make a tidy little profit for very little effort.]]

To the second point:

Does anyone "farm gold" anymore?

So many times I've run through Fel dungeons or T2A and found a champ spawn that's been recently finished and literally all of the gold is still laying on the ground.

Others are more focus on the loot on the corpse at Shadowguard and they leave that few mil on the ground, too, without bothering to pick any of it up.

I mean, working Fame up at Miasma can net you a tidy little sum in the time it takes to go from 0 Fame to Lord/Lady status ... but people really only care about the chests at Miasma anyway.

I've made well over 2 plat in this game just by actually playing and selling things on vendors, or in Gen Chat, or when other people ask for them in Gen Chat.

Yes, most people in the game won't see plat upon plat of gold in their bank balance sheets - but it's nowhere near as difficult to make gold in UO as it once was.

First off, VS is totally garbage, it totally destroyed local marked. Try running a shop on a busy shard like atlantic, here you have to check you're prices 10 times a day, else everyone and their grandmother will
undercut you. VS is also painfully slow, and have to update every XX min, further its also inaccurate that sometimes it doesn't show all items. sometimes it doesn't show highest prices when u select order by highest, and the other way around. so here u spend hours loggin in/out checking prices, and adjust prices on a daily basis.
Second off try running a shop on a none-busy shard, here u wont sell anything, because there are 0 players left, and those that remains buy their **** on atlantic and xfer it over.
And even then if someone by accident speak in gen chat about buying XX item, you can be sure that the entire else hidden population on that shard will come to live and talk about what that item cost on atlantic.

So ya, VS+Shard-shields+global chat totally killed UO.
And yes it is easy to make gold, it only takes 10min to pick up 1mill from the piper multiply that by a 1000 times and you have 1 plat.
And you will spend 166 hours getting that plat, thats around 1 month in a full time job. So ya i can totally understand why people don't pick up any gold, and just go to some RMT site and buy 1 plat for $200.
And the most funny thing is, you can't even buy a keep on atlantic for 1 plat

 

[PageBoy]

and buy 1 plat for $200

You can buy a plat for $110

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

And the most funny thing is, you can't even buy a keep on atlantic for 1 plat

Just one of many, many reasons I don't play on Atlantic ... along with the lag, the trolling, the belly-aching, the inflated economy, etc ... etc ... etc ...

 

[railshot]

First off, VS is totally garbage, it totally destroyed local marked. Try running a shop on a busy shard like atlantic, here you have to check you're prices 10 times a day, else everyone and their grandmother will
undercut you.

VS has opened up the market to sellers outside of Luna and increased overall commerce. It also promoted competition and decreased prices. All of these things are good for the shards. If you, as a seller, do not know how to deal with undercutters, you are in the wrong business.

 

[Pawain]

First off, VS is totally garbage, it totally destroyed local marked. Try running a shop on a busy shard like atlantic, here you have to check you're prices 10 times a day, else everyone and their grandmother will
undercut you. VS is also painfully slow, and have to update every XX min, further its also inaccurate that sometimes it doesn't show all items. sometimes it doesn't show highest prices when u select order by highest, and the other way around. so here u spend hours loggin in/out checking prices, and adjust prices on a daily basis.

Just like grocery stores and gas stations in RL do.

I think all the items now show up in VS. They made a ninja change. And it made a bug.

 

[kaio]

Just one of many, many reasons I don't play on Atlantic ... along with the lag, the trolling, the belly-aching, the inflated economy, etc ... etc ... etc ...

The economy is totally broken, and its goes for all prodo shards

 

[kaio]

Just like grocery stores and gas stations in RL do.

I think all the items now show up in VS. They made a ninja change. And it made a bug.

Nope not at all, sometimes you even get a blank page when you click next page, and u can't go back, and have to start a new search.
There is no comparison between RL shops and in game shops.
When i need gas for my car, i don't use google to search for gas and candy bars,and then have scotty to beam me and my car there. I would go to a local gas station, and buy what i need.

 

[Pawain]

The economy is totally broken, and its goes for all prodo shards

It is not broken. If everybody all of a sudden had 0GP, the economy would be fine. The economy works.

The problem is that many players have multi platinums and others do not. The prices reflect the discrepancy in wealth.

When i need gas for my car, i don't use google to search for gas and candy bars,

Gas stations check competitors prices and adjust daily. More often in busy areas. Just because you stop at the most convenient does not mean other do the same. The market is the same in RL or in games. The second oldest profession.

 

[kaio]

VS has opened up the market to sellers outside of Luna and increased overall commerce. It also promoted competition and decreased prices. All of these things are good for the shards. If you, as a seller, do not know how to deal with undercutters, you are in the wrong business.

VS broke all the interaction people used to have at wbb, witch was the center of trading back in the days on most shards. Local shops outside luna would thrive as well, where they had their loyal customers.
I'm actually in the right business i trade in stuff u can't put on VS
VS dosen't promote any fairness at all for sellers, the only winner is the buyers.
I do feel the pain the sellers have when i use VS, if fx i search for a 120 tact, i might find a price for 50mill, and then 5 other sellers selling for 49.999.999 and then the next one sells for 49.999.998 and so forth, and this forces the seller to login 10 times a day to adjust hes prices, else he get ****d by vendor fees witch are super high. This was just an example i dont have any 120 tactics for sale

 

[kaio]

It is not broken. If everybody all of a sudden had 0GP, the economy would be fine. The economy works.

The problem is that many players have multi platinums and others do not. The prices reflect the discrepancy in wealth.



Gas stations check competitors prices and adjust daily. More often in busy areas. Just because you stop at the most convenient does not mean other do the same. The market is the same in RL or in games. The second oldest profession.

That is not true, one of my friends work as a gas station, they adjust their prices maby 1-3 times a week, not 10 times a day
inflated gold is not the only problem, if u really want to feel the economy i dare you to make a new char on dead shard, and not use any shard-shields. You will have a very sad time i can tell you.
I did it just for the luls, and it was a horrible experience. training my nuwbie char was decent, but getting any gear was a totally disaster, and no i dont mean super legendaries, i really mean super low end like lrc pieces with crap mods, runebooks and other "basic" items. When i finally had a char that could hunt alittle and make me some gold, there was nothing to spend it on, because there was noting for sale..lol

 

[Pawain]

Sorry, I have never had a Luna house and never have sold an item on a vendor for over 10M. I have had a vendor house since 2009. I am so glad I do not have to drop runes. And WBB went out a long time ago. I can buy a repair deed or other useful item at any time because of vendor search. There is no toon standing at the Smith shop in Brit that will repair my stuff anymore. Catch up with the times. A shop owner has to spend time in the shop. That's part of being one.

Vendor search allowed a small vendor like me to make some gold! And still would if I wasn't doing events all the time and not have time to restock.

This was just an example i dont have any 120 tactics for sale

Dare I say, dont be so greedy and sell it at Luna stable for 20M to someone that will immediately feed it to a pet. As a multi pet owner I have no sympathy for you taking advantage of part of the player base.

 

[kaio]

Sorry, I have never had a Luna house and never have sold an item on a vendor for over 10M. I have had a vendor house since 2009. I am so glad I do not have to drop runes. And WBB went out a long time ago. I can buy a repair deed or other useful item at any time because of vendor search. There is no toon standing at the Smith shop in Brit that will repair my stuff anymore. Catch up with the times. A shop owner has to spend time in the shop. That's part of being one.

Vendor search allowed a small vendor like me to make some gold! And still would if I wasn't doing events all the time and not have time to restock.



Dare I say, dont be so greedy and sell it at Luna stable for 20M to someone that will immediately feed it to a pet. As a multi pet owner I have no sympathy for you taking advantage of part of the player base.

why would i sell it for 20M ? i could just as well drop in on the ground in luna
Over my time in UO i have given away serveral billions of gold.
A shop owner has to spend some time in hes or hers shop, try selling 50 different items, and VS them all 10 times a day, then u see my point.
Anyways to sum it up, i totally agree with the OP, if anyone needs gold don't borther farming, just go grab that plat for $110 buy what u need and have fun.

 

[railshot]

VS broke all the interaction people used to have at wbb, witch was the center of trading back in the days on most shards. Local shops outside luna would thrive as well, where they had their loyal customers.

WBB was dead long before VS came along. But even if it was not, yelling for sale ads is hardly the optimal way to do business. It's annoying on a busy shard, and unworkable on a slow one.

I'm actually in the right business i trade in stuff u can't put on VS
VS dosen't promote any fairness at all for sellers, the only winner is the buyers.
I do feel the pain the sellers have when i use VS, if fx i search for a 120 tact, i might find a price for 50mill, and then 5 other sellers selling for 49.999.999 and then the next one sells for 49.999.998 and so forth, and this forces the seller to login 10 times a day to adjust hes prices, else he get ****d by vendor fees witch are super high. This was just an example i dont have any 120 tactics for sale

If buyers were the only winners, nobody would sell. VS promotes fair competition and fair prices, rather having select few abuse the lack of knowledge or connections on the part of the players.
Free tip - here's how you deal with undercutters. You determine the bottom price at which it is profitable to sell the item. Let's say, it's 40M for that tactics scroll. You put it up for 50. When someone undercuts you at 49, you relist it 45. If someone goes 44, you relist at 40. If they go 39 or below, you buy it and relist at 40. If you are out of money, let others buy it. People who sell below cost do not last long.
You have to be willing to cut your profits for awhile to drive your competition away. And, pardon me if I don't feel sympathy if you feel that competition that VS introduced is a bad thing.

 

[Xris]

WBB was dead long before VS came along. But even if it was not, yelling for sale ads is hardly the optimal way to do business. It's annoying on a busy shard, and unworkable on a slow one.

If buyers were the only winners, nobody would sell. VS promotes fair competition and fair prices, rather having select few abuse the lack of knowledge or connections on the part of the players.
Free tip - here's how you deal with undercutters. You determine the bottom price at which it is profitable to sell the item. Let's say, it's 40M for that tactics scroll. You put it up for 50. When someone undercuts you at 49, you relist it 45. If someone goes 44, you relist at 40. If they go 39 or below, you buy it and relist at 40. If you are out of money, let others buy it. People who sell below cost do not last long.
You have to be willing to cut your profits for awhile to drive your competition away. And, pardon me if I don't feel sympathy if you feel that competition that VS introduced is a bad thing.

Ya I make most my gold on VS. Knowing what items sell fast, and what you should pay to make some gold on an item is a great way for new players to make money. This works in any game not just UO. I also used to play the auction house on WoW. VS was an excellent upgrade to UO. I don't miss running thru 50 vendor houses to find 1 item I need.

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

— Jeezuz.

I have never owned a house inside of the walls at Luna. I sell quite a lot on my vendors for 10, 20, sometimes 60 or 70 million and those high priced items never sit on my vendors for more than three or four days, maximum.

To take the example of 120 Tactics?

I sell at least two a month on my vendor. I check ATL prices. If the lowest on ATL is 45m? I price mine at 30m.

If a vendor owner prices theirs at 44,999,999 or 44,999,995 then they deserve to have it sit for weeks and eat up fees. That’s just bad business.

The 15m I’m not making on my 120 Tactics doesn’t matter because I’m not paying 5m a day in vendor fees having it sit unsold on my vendor.

And as for shard shields? I have never transferred anything off of my home shard to sell anywhere else. Why would I? It takes away from the people on my home shard. I have characters on every shard in the game to collect gifts and check VS for pricing or items I’m looking to buy. Gifts and items I find on other shards eventually get transferred back to GL.

The successful Vendor Owners also don’t rely JUST on VS to sell their items. They lay runes or announce in Gen Chat when they’ve stocked. And they have a loyal customer base that comes back to check stock.

All this belly aching over the UO economy because people are too lazy to use VS properly, intelligently, or put some effort behind how they play. Jeez.

The fact that people can make a few million gold per day in game if they play smarter, not harder, seems permanently lost on some.

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

Dare I say, dont be so greedy and sell it at Luna stable for 20M to someone that will immediately feed it to a pet. As a multi pet owner I have no sympathy for you taking advantage of part of the player base.

Thank you.

Someone else with a level head on their shoulders.

 

[Jennifer-Marie]

— Also, just to clarify, if there’s an item on my home shard already priced lower than the lowest price on ATL, I price mine lower than that. So if a 120 Tactics is sitting on my home shard at 30m, I’ll price mine at 27.5 or 25.

 

[Smoot]

why get the items yourself? for fun.

i could get into a long explantion of content value, ease vrs reward / time value. but not going to get too far into that. lets just say people always complain about high prices, but my main issue is posts like this. when rationally its "cheaper" to just buy the item, that usually means somethings out of balance with the game (in UOs case botting has alot to do with it)

 

[kaio]

WBB was dead long before VS came along. But even if it was not, yelling for sale ads is hardly the optimal way to do business. It's annoying on a busy shard, and unworkable on a slow one.

If buyers were the only winners, nobody would sell. VS promotes fair competition and fair prices, rather having select few abuse the lack of knowledge or connections on the part of the players.
Free tip - here's how you deal with undercutters. You determine the bottom price at which it is profitable to sell the item. Let's say, it's 40M for that tactics scroll. You put it up for 50. When someone undercuts you at 49, you relist it 45. If someone goes 44, you relist at 40. If they go 39 or below, you buy it and relist at 40. If you are out of money, let others buy it. People who sell below cost do not last long.
You have to be willing to cut your profits for awhile to drive your competition away. And, pardon me if I don't feel sympathy if you feel that competition that VS introduced is a bad thing.

Thats what i been saying all along.
Seller searches for item (To get the 50mill value)
Seller puts an item on VS for 50mill
Seller checks item on VS,
Seller finds same item for 49mill
Seller relist item to 45mill
Seller checks item on VS,
Seller finds same item for 44mill
Seller relist item to 43mill
Seller checks item on VS,
Seller finds same item for 43mill
Seller relist item to 42mil
Seller checks item on VS,
Seller finds same item for 41mill
Seller relist item to 40mill
Seller checks item on VS,
Seller finds same item for 39mill
Seller buys said item, or gets hes item sold. (witch ever you prefer)

1 hour passes between each search.
it takes around 4-5min to do each search/adjustment.
That's 5x5min over a time span of 5 hours.

Now sit back, take a deep breath close your eyes, and imagine you have 2 items you want to sell...
Keep it going and now imagine you have 10 vendors with 200 items.

I don't see anything fair in this, back before VS. People would spend time shopping around in luna, and local shops they know of to get the item they needed. (before luna era, it was WBB)
People would ask friends if they had or knew a vendor selling items they needed, they would interact with each other, like they are supposed to in an MMO.

VS ruined social interaction, and de valuated value of property.

And don't give me the luna crap story, i ran several shops outside luna as many others with great success. I even sold a few shop after i made a worthless plot worth something due to creating a local
customer base by keeping my vendors well stocked with reasonable prices.

So ya i think my statement that VS is garbage hold water. ( For sellers that is )
And now add shard-shields into the mix.
All other shards are just farm-land to feed the marked on atlantic, if you don't believe me, do you're homework and login to every shard and use VS, walk around luna..
And u will discover very little to none items on VS, and free luna plots, and 0 people to interact with.

I don't need sympathy, i don't give a rats ass tbh, i wan't whats best for the game.
What we have now in game is a total destroyed economy, and it hurts the game.

 

[celticus]

VS broke all the interaction people used to have at wbb, witch was the center of trading back in the days on most shards. Local shops outside luna would thrive as well, where they had their loyal customers.
I'm actually in the right business i trade in stuff u can't put on VS
VS dosen't promote any fairness at all for sellers, the only winner is the buyers.
I do feel the pain the sellers have when i use VS, if fx i search for a 120 tact, i might find a price for 50mill, and then 5 other sellers selling for 49.999.999 and then the next one sells for 49.999.998 and so forth, and this forces the seller to login 10 times a day to adjust hes prices, else he get ****d by vendor fees witch are super high. This was just an example i dont have any 120 tactics for sale

VS what we have now is awesome. It gave power to the sellers and buyers non-existent before! It does work, you just have to know how to use it. It saves hours and hours or searching vendors everywhere. But of course..imagine 2,000 people in ATL doing VS at the same time : Yes there will be some lags etc.
Also you are saying that luna bank sitting is dead? Did you visit ATL luna bank at 11 PM, 2 AM, or even later, or even prime time?
And t he statement that VS decreased player interaction is also not too accurate. I see TONS of people spamming g.chat with stuff t hey want to sell without vendors because they do not want to pay vendors fees (that can be massive for casual players), and TONS of people asking for goods on GC also.
Think about it like Sears Roebuck, inc, vs Amazon.com battle. It was bound to happen. Technology wins.
Vendor search is awesome for both shoppers and sellers. Only thing with vendors is the high price of the fees. Maybe they will fix that, and there was some talk on that.
VS helps massively to create a free market, open market, and bring prices down, makes purchase a snap, also selling a snap, just have to keep prices desirable.
With VS a smart seller can sell his goods much more rapidly and efficiently than without the VS.
If you use VS appropriately with ALL its trimmings you can find items that before would take you 1,000 hours of searching vendor to vendor. You can get a spec. Ring or Brac. with stats that you request, and THEN choose a price to boot, or weapon etc. How can some1 knock this? People don't just buy Tact 120 PS. They buy 1000's of other items that are much more useful.
At least this is my perception.

 

[celticus]

VS broke all the interaction people used to have at wbb, witch was the center of trading back in the days on most shards. Local shops outside luna would thrive as well, where they had their loyal customers.
I'm actually in the right business i trade in stuff u can't put on VS
VS dosen't promote any fairness at all for sellers, the only winner is the buyers.
I do feel the pain the sellers have when i use VS, if fx i search for a 120 tact, i might find a price for 50mill, and then 5 other sellers selling for 49.999.999 and then the next one sells for 49.999.998 and so forth, and this forces the seller to login 10 times a day to adjust hes prices, else he get ****d by vendor fees witch are super high. This was just an example i dont have any 120 tactics for sale

VS what we have now is awesome. It gave power to the sellers and buyers non-existent before! It does work, you just have to know how to use it. It saves hours and hours or searching vendors everywhere. But of course..imagine 2,000 people in ATL doing VS at the same time : Yes there will be some lags etc.
Also you are saying that luna bank sitting is dead? Did you visit ATL luna bank at 11 PM, 2 AM, or even later, or even prime time?
And t he statement that VS decreased player interaction is also not too accurate. I see TONS of people spamming g.chat with stuff t hey want to sell without vendors because they do not want to pay vendors fees (that can be massive for casual players), and TONS of people asking for goods on GC also.
Think about it like Sears Roebuck, inc, vs Amazon.com battle. It was bound to happen. Technology wins.
Vendor search is awesome for both shoppers and sellers. Only thing with vendors is the high price of the fees. Maybe they will fix that, and there was some talk on that.
VS helps massively to create a free market, open market, and bring prices down, makes purchase a snap, also selling a snap, just have to keep prices desirable.
With VS a smart seller can sell his goods much more rapidly and efficiently than without the VS.
If you use VS appropriately with ALL its trimmings you can find items that before would take you 1,000 hours of searching vendor to vendor. You can get a spec. Ring or Brac. with stats that you request, and THEN choose a price to boot, or weapon etc. How can some1 knock this? People don't just buy Tact 120 PS. They buy 1000's of other items that are much more useful.
At least this is my perception.

 

[kaio]

VS what we have now is awesome. It gave power to the sellers and buyers non-existent before! It does work, you just have to know how to use it. It saves hours and hours or searching vendors everywhere. But of course..imagine 2,000 people in ATL doing VS at the same time : Yes there will be some lags etc.
Also you are saying that luna bank sitting is dead? Did you visit ATL luna bank at 11 PM, 2 AM, or even later, or even prime time?
And t he statement that VS decreased player interaction is also not too accurate. I see TONS of people spamming g.chat with stuff t hey want to sell without vendors because they do not want to pay vendors fees (that can be massive for casual players), and TONS of people asking for goods on GC also.
Think about it like Sears Roebuck, inc, vs Amazon.com battle. It was bound to happen. Technology wins.
Vendor search is awesome for both shoppers and sellers. Only thing with vendors is the high price of the fees. Maybe they will fix that, and there was some talk on that.
VS helps massively to create a free market, open market, and bring prices down, makes purchase a snap, also selling a snap, just have to keep prices desirable.
With VS a smart seller can sell his goods much more rapidly and efficiently than without the VS.
If you use VS appropriately with ALL its trimmings you can find items that before would take you 1,000 hours of searching vendor to vendor. You can get a spec. Ring or Brac. with stats that you request, and THEN choose a price to boot, or weapon etc. How can some1 knock this? People don't just buy Tact 120 PS. They buy 1000's of other items that are much more useful.
At least this is my perception.

At least read my post, before you reply
You missed around 90% of what i wrote.

 

[kaio]

why get the items yourself? for fun.

i could get into a long explantion of content value, ease vrs reward / time value. but not going to get too far into that. lets just say people always complain about high prices, but my main issue is posts like this. when rationally its "cheaper" to just buy the item, that usually means somethings out of balance with the game (in UOs case botting has alot to do with it)

Don't get me wrong, i love getting stuff, i even enjoy hunting for rare fish on my fisherman.
I even use VS when i buy stuff, and sell stuff, but that doesen't mean its great i kinda have 0 alternatives.
I also xfer from shard to shard, and again that dosen't make shard-shields a great thing for UO as a whole.
And yes scripting/botting has had a huge impact on the broken economy as well. When the pieces is put into motion they fit very well together.

loop:
bot/script/farm/champs/etc/buy stuff on shard X.
xfer to atlantic.
sell on atlantic.
xfer back to shard X
goto loop

its the same 3 elements that pop up..its shard-shields, it's vendor search, and is scripts/botting.
Sadly people don't see it, well ok some do, coz they do it..lol

I could go into more details, but i think its kinda pointless. most are just happy they can use VS, get what they need. And then of cause buy the gold they need from 3rd party sites, coz why bother farmin.

 

[PageBoy]

Shard shield aren’t only used by scripters... my guild plays pvm/pvp on various shards and we use them to xfer chars and consumables... please stop blame the game mechanics for the actions of bad players

 

[Fridgster]

The biggest issue with the economy has nothing to do with shard shields or VS or RMT. The biggest problem is a lack of any credible gold sink since UOs' conception.

 

[Victim of Siege]

The biggest issue with the economy has nothing to do with shard shields or VS or RMT. The biggest problem is a lack of any credible gold sink since UOs' conception.

This, the gold just keeps getting redistributed around. Player make it and buy things, some of the vendors are owned by RMT proprietors who sell the gold to players who then buy from vendors. There is of course more details but this is the bare bones of it. The gold never truly goes away. If they’d offer things like soul stones and Tokuno dyes (insert sought after items here) for gold, in addition to the other ways they are available it would help remove gold from the game to some degree.

 

[Avirunes]

If anything the drop rates are too high although they are streaky. In 60 - 70 spawns last month ( ~ 400 scrolls), i got 4x 120 tact (lost one to pkers) and 2+ of most pet scrolls + 3 taming 3 primers. Most other elite items in the game have a much worse drop rate.

 

[Stinky Pete]

Why the hate for vendor search? I have no idea what stuff sells for. The thought of being a merchant bores me to tears. I like that I can just look up an item that I have, sell it for 50-75% of it's current vendor search price, and never have to look at the thing again. If something stays on my vendor longer than a week, I drop the price or throw it in the trash. I don't care what you think your stuff is worth, if you are getting undercut, your prices are too high. If someone undercuts my prices, it means that nobody is buying and the item should probably go into the trash.

 

[GarthGrey]

If I thought really really hard about it, I might remember the last time I actually looted a pile of gold.

 

[Effort]

im pretty sure Avatar AKA UltimaOnline codes has ties with broadsword or EA, pretty sure they are getting a kickback, one this dude has been around forever and they have done nothing about him, two they have not shut down the website and three I have ignored every aspect of that name but yet he still pops up in my chat.

Nope, it's a guy in Russia who sells gametime codes purchased with stolen credit cards, he was involved with the Tradespot gametime fiasco back in the day too. I'm not allowed to say names so I won't break the rules of course. The motherland is a fairly safe place to do hilarious things. You notice that none of the larger stores spam you in game? I think he's just kind of desperate.

Give me a break. You DO realize that is WAY too much like common sense for @Mesanna , RIGHT? hehe Of course, doing this would indicate that she WANTS to do something to her, in all likelihood, friends. The "fact" that they have a lot of accounts, and it would cripple/end the game, holds "no water" with me. You either HAVE integrity, or you don't. There is ZERO middle ground. I mean, come on, I have PERSONALLY sent @Mesanna screen shot after screen shot of PROOF of RMT's and she has yet to do SQUAT about it! But then again, these people are "Broker" types, or "Realtor" types, or "Idoc" types", or the "Rares Collector" types. Which is a whole different topic.

You're trying to get people banned for buying or selling things? That's your crusade?

1) it IS against the rules, and is a slap in the face to everyone who DOES follow the rules, 2) the fact that people will pay real $$$ is a HUGE part of why people use scripts/cheats/etc... an example is(some of) the multiboxxers at EM events. They have to multibox to get at least 1 (or more) of the drops on a regular basis to sell for gold, to then turn around and sell the gold for $$$$ Another is, the people who run the scripts at IDOCS, to find IDOCS, to loot IDOCS, etc. If people didn't pay for the items, the gold produced from selling the items, or the home script placed then there would be no need to do so.

The bottom line is, BOTH the buyers AND the sellers are bad for the game. The ones who hide behind some "moral" compass of "But I provide a service" "I only make a few $$$ a month" "I'm not doing it to pay my mortgage, only to take my wife and kids out once in a while" are FOOLING themselves. They are even worse. AS are the ones who "pretend" they are all innocent and good. UNTIL you ICQ/PM then a screenshot of their ads/posts buying and/or selling gold/items. End of story.

So no, it's NOT just THEIR business, it's our business as well.

RMT is never bad for games, and people will always pay for progress (see: Apex Legends Battle Pass, Fortnite Battle Pass, League of Legends XP Boost, League of Legends Level 30 Accounts, etc etc) . You can burn your witches if it helps you sleep at night, but your position on RMT as if it's the harbinger of doom is misguided and doesn't follow any basic points proven with RMT. It's a multi-billion dollar industry and only growing, it's not evil, it's evolution.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Nope, it's a guy in Russia who sells gametime codes purchased with stolen credit cards, he was involved with the Tradespot gametime fiasco back in the day too. I'm not allowed to say names so I won't break the rules of course. The motherland is a fairly safe place to do hilarious things. You notice that none of the larger stores spam you in game? I think he's just kind of desperate.



You're trying to get people banned for buying or selling things? That's your crusade?



RMT is never bad for games, and people will always pay for progress (see: Apex Legends Battle Pass, Fortnite Battle Pass, League of Legends XP Boost, League of Legends Level 30 Accounts, etc etc) . You can burn your witches if it helps you sleep at night, but your position on RMT as if it's the harbinger of doom is misguided and doesn't follow any basic points proven with RMT. It's a multi-billion dollar industry and only growing, it's not evil, it's evolution.

What part of , IT'S AGAINST THE UO TERMS OF SERVICE are you unable to comprehend?????

 

[Effort]

Good luck with that ToS argument man. You ever look at the US tax code? I can have my company lease a 180k 911, and not pay gas, tires, any fees, all entirely legally, 85% on the company dime. "Terms of Service" is a near impossible to enforce dream document. Your US tax code is far more researched and easy to abuse.

Come down to the meat of your point though, why would you ever care that I work 60 hours a week and don't have time to grind the Halloween event and just want to buy a Kal ankur mask? Who the hell are you, you know what I mean?

 

[kaio]

Shard shield aren’t only used by scripters... my guild plays pvm/pvp on various shards and we use them to xfer chars and consumables... please stop blame the game mechanics for the actions of bad players

u really fail to see the big picture dont u..
loop:
bot/script/farm/champs/etc/buy stuff on shard X.
xfer to atlantic.
sell on atlantic.
xfer back to shard X
goto loop
U fail on you're main shard, then u move towards another shard, ruin their local economy, and flood atlantic with goods there should't be there in the first place.
In my eyes it does make you a just as bad a player like the rest..

 

[kaio]

The biggest issue with the economy has nothing to do with shard shields or VS or RMT. The biggest problem is a lack of any credible gold sink since UOs' conception.

Lack of gold sinks is a completily different story, i haven't even dared to mention that yet. I mentioned shard-shield, and that word alone makes me hunted by the usual we earned shard-shield crowd.