Bane Dragon AI / Chiv, is it possible to lose the innate poison ability?

[Silent Singer]

Hey folks,

I've finally decided to train my Bane on Siege. I hope the new system is settled enough to not change much. I have read several of the Bane threads here, but I want to double check a few things. Here are the stats of my Bane pre-training:




1. My number one concern is not losing his innate poison ability. Is it possible to screw that up?

2. If I add chivalry, does that overwrite his Magery? I have read that the magery critters cast protection on themselves worsening their resists. Is that an issue here?

Based on the stats above, can this guy be a fully scrolled AI / Chiv Bane and still have his natural poison? I think there is a new calculator somewhere, but I haven't used one since the update.

Thanks all very much!

 

[Donavon]

Good afternoon, I was doing my breathing treatment and saw your post. It's been years since Ive been to your shard and am not sure as to the rules of certain things.. but my main advice would be.. make 5-7 copies to test over the next week and play around with it and see if ya like each build and the feel of it.(not sure if you can on that shard) Its a nice bane but a bit low in key stats so there would be a few trade offs if ya wanted it to be chiv.. (such as lower Hp regen or other things depending on your spec and play style)
1. Fear not , The banes Poison is hard coded into the passive(move that happens based off outside procs like a monster/player hitting it) and no matter the changes you make to it so long as ya keep it feed on stew once aday you will see the poison/damage blast going off.
2. Yes, If you add Chiv it will over write Magery. Normal magery like the banes start with doesn't use protection, but rather bless in its stead... the Mage mastery build (uses protection,teleport,mindblast more,etc)has seen a lot of success n the PvP front and one of my good friends truly enjoys his.. blasting things down with the change to pets death ray.
3. I normally shot for a higher intense bane for a proper Chiv bane.. as those with lower intense just don't have the points values to make the spec truly sing without pauses in damage, sustained tanking or other cost... If you like I would gladly meet up with you on test and see what we can do.. I even have a few already spec and skilled banes ready if you would like to test drive them and see which ya might enjoy making on live. ^_~
I hope this helps ,mate.. if ya need anything else feel free to post here or message me.. let me know if ya want to meet up.. until then.. have a grand day =^-^=

 

[Silent Singer]

Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately for pet testing, Siege cannot transfer to Test Center. But at least you have given me some answers for the chiv and mastery questions. Thanks!

 

[Pawain]

Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately for pet testing, Siege cannot transfer to Test Center. But at least you have given me some answers for the chiv and mastery questions. Thanks!

But you could make a new toon on TC and get some built Banes from Don there. Try them out on some Mobs. Then build a castle for the contest.

 

[celticus]

Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately for pet testing, Siege cannot transfer to Test Center. But at least you have given me some answers for the chiv and mastery questions. Thanks!

Also : You have a fantastic tool available to you to use for min-maxing skill training point allocation and theory crafting for this specific bane : Try UO-Cah.com and choose bane dragon, then fill in the numbers, and see how the points fit, esp with the scrolls that you have. You intend to all 120 (except magery/eval) if mage-AI-Goo bane, vs the Chiv/AI/ plus or minus Goo bane? If you intend to use Chiv/AI spec, that pet planner is golden. GL to you!

 

[Silent Singer]

Wow, thanks for the link! I had not used a new pet power tool since the update. Here's what I came up with based on the stats I posted above (though now that I write this I did not account for increasing Base Damage from 3-4 and 4-5. So that is problematic).

 

[Silent Singer]

I checked the Bane I have on prodo, he has almost identical stats, so I'll build that one out using TC and see how I like it before committing on Siege. Thanks again for the advice and the link to the pet planner! Insta-bookmarked!

 

[Pawain]

Needs more Intelligence and 15 points for the damage. Must have that.

Will need to lose some regen points but that is your decision. Thats what makes that planner good, you can modify it easily.

Will make a fine pet!

What things do you fight do cold damage?

 

[celticus]

Wow, thanks for the link! I had not used a new pet power tool since the update. Here's what I came up with based on the stats I posted above (though now that I write this I did not account for increasing Base Damage from 3-4 and 4-5. So that is problematic).

View attachment 92565

Yes but resists, I would put cold resist lower and energy resist higher a bit. Depending on the mobs you intend to fight. Careful with resists and esp
regens since they take a HUGE amount of points. Also INT wonder if it can go a little higher? @Donavon can you help with this a little? What you think reasonable spread of resists, and INT should be? These are soo tight in training points..Good thing that you are using TC1 for putting this thing together!

 

[celticus]

Yes but resists, I would put cold resist lower and energy resist higher a bit. Depending on the mobs you intend to fight. Careful with resists since they take a HUGE amount of points. Also INT wonder if it can go a little higher? @Donavon can you help with this a little? What you think reasonable spread of resists, and INT should be? These are soo tight in training points..

I suspect you will have to sacrifice something : Tactics takes lots of TP, does not absolutely need to be 120, maybe 115? And regens they take lots of TP maybe you need to lower HP regen, and even lower the Stam regen? There are things you cannot sacrifice as the bane is basically toast, the most important one is you need to max BASE DAMAGE to 33.

 

[celticus]

Also remember : This bane right now is probably worth 150-200 M to some buyers, due to halfway decent stats. If you mess him up he is just deco, no real value. By the way if he is made correctly, some people can buy him fully trained and skilled 120'd for close to 1 Plat. PVP folks would NOT buy a Chiv bane: No use for them I guess. They would prefer a magery bane. So it is possible if your intentions are to sometime sell him,
that your market or buyer base may be larger for a magery/AI/ plus-minus goo bane. Before you start finalizing your production bane, come back here again and get help for @Donavon . GL!

 

[Donavon]

Good Evening, doing my last breathing treatment of the day and checking in again... Cel is correct in that PvPers often will not value the chiv banes as they are easy to outrun or just ignore so long as ya keep distance.. I've taken my meds already so take everything I say atm with a grain of salt( sorry if somethings are messy or blocky due to this..lol).. and bare in mind these are just my views.. but if you seek to make it a chiv bane.. based on the pics above here are some options.. on most chiv pets I would not suggest this but banes are no normal pet.. cut the stam regen out all together.. as the passive which negates a % of damage will keep these beasties swinging full force through the worst of damage.. and use part of the points saved there to take focus to 120 as this will be an extra 2-3 stam regen and 1-2 mana regen alone for the mere cost of 20 extra points.. Base damage is the bread and butter of the chiv pets along with 700 str and 150dex/stam .. very important these 3 things are met for the build.. another is 500 mana.. Now you can make them with lower mana and higher regens.. but in my testing 500 was just the magic number for them(chiv spec banes, not caster)..even at just 470-480 mana there would sometimes be a notable pause in damage(outside of the passive that is). If your heart is set on chiv I would consider lowering Hp regen a small mount to make the above changes happen.. Not to much of course as this takes away from the stand alone power of this pet and the build.. luckly once again the banes passive allows for a lot of wiggle room in this.. just don't take the HP regen below 15 if you must then its time to consider other builds honestly. I've helped a few that have used lower HP regen (15-19 range)to make these beasties in their ranks a reality and each sing of the glory they have at their side.. hehe..

Resistance wise.. there is no one answer to this one as it depends on what you are fighting.. I can say that there are 2 builds that most favor.. The one which favors strudy bulk stats in all the elements but cold, making it effective against most mobs in the game( while taking decent spike against cold using beasties).. which is 80 80 45 80 80.. and then the one most favor for banes as the passive truly makes it shine almost totally removing the already barely noticeable difference from the table.. which is 80 75 70 70 70 just allowing for a more stable counter to most things. (the 2nd tends to out shine the first for chiv banes)
My breathing treatment is nearing its end ,and I'm once again leaving the blocks ive been known for in the past.. Once again these are merely my views on the things I have seen.. but I hope they are of some help to ya.. please let us know if ya have any questions before you make anything final on live shards.. as these pets are a true treasure most don't get the honor of having.. and we all want to make sure yours turns out to be the best version of what you seek.. Sorry if any of this is abit hard to read or understand.. I will check this post in the morning and see if I need to edit it... lol until then I hope this helps and have a delightful night =^-^=

 

[celticus]

Good Evening, doing my last breathing treatment of the day and checking in again... Cel is correct in that PvPers often will not value the chiv banes as they are easy to outrun or just ignore so long as ya keep distance.. I've taken my meds already so take everything I say atm with a grain of salt( sorry if somethings are messy or blocky due to this..lol).. and bare in mind these are just my views.. but if you seek to make it a chiv bane.. based on the pics above here are some options.. on most chiv pets I would not suggest this but banes are no normal pet.. cut the stam regen out all together.. as the passive which negates a % of damage will keep these beasties swinging full force through the worst of damage.. and use part of the points saved there to take focus to 120 as this will be an extra 2-3 stam regen and 1-2 mana regen alone for the mere cost of 20 extra points.. Base damage is the bread and butter of the chiv pets along with 700 str and 150dex/stam .. very important these 3 things are met for the build.. another is 500 mana.. Now you can make them with lower mana and higher regens.. but in my testing 500 was just the magic number for them(chiv spec banes, not caster)..even at just 470-480 mana there would sometimes be a notable pause in damage(outside of the passive that is). If your heart is set on chiv I would consider lowering Hp regen a small mount to make the above changes happen.. Not to much of course as this takes away from the stand alone power of this pet and the build.. luckly once again the banes passive allows for a lot of wiggle room in this.. just don't take the HP regen below 15 if you must then its time to consider other builds honestly. I've helped a few that have used lower HP regen (15-19 range)to make these beasties in their ranks a reality and each sing of the glory they have at their side.. hehe..

Resistance wise.. there is no one answer to this one as it depends on what you are fighting.. I can say that there are 2 builds that most favor.. The one which favors strudy bulk stats in all the elements but cold, making it effective against most mobs in the game( while taking decent spike against cold using beasties).. which is 80 80 45 80 80.. and then the one most favor for banes as the passive truly makes it shine almost totally removing the already barely noticeable difference from the table.. which is 80 75 70 70 70 just allowing for a more stable counter to most things. (the 2nd tends to out shine the first for chiv banes)
My breathing treatment is nearing its end ,and I'm once again leaving the blocks ive been known for in the past.. Once again these are merely my views on the things I have seen.. but I hope they are of some help to ya.. please let us know if ya have any questions before you make anything final on live shards.. as these pets are a true treasure most don't get the honor of having.. and we all want to make sure yours turns out to be the best version of what you seek.. Sorry if any of this is abit hard to read or understand.. I will check this post in the morning and see if I need to edit it... lol until then I hope this helps and have a delightful night =^-^=

Thank you Don! This is great info..Caan you post your recommendations for the Magery Bane, stats and resists and INT as above? Also would you recommend Goo with the AI/Magery one, and would you put Goo in her Chiv bane also, since she would not use for PvP? Being that Goo will take 100 more training points, and these are so limited in general in points. Would it be worth it in terms of point investment? Thanks greatly again..

 

[Dantes]

Thank you Don! This is great info..Caan you post your recommendations for the Magery Bane, stats and resists and INT as above? Also would you recommend Goo with the AI/Magery one, and would you put Goo in her Chiv bane also, since she would not use for PvP? Being that Goo will take 100 more training points, and these are so limited in general in points. Would it be worth it in terms of point investment? Thanks greatly again..

I'm also interested in what @Donavon has to say in regards to Magery Banes. I acquired this one earlier this evening, and I'm pretty sure he has what it takes to go Chiv/AI and sing, but I'm not 100% sure - opinions?

 

[Khaelor]

I'm also interested in what @Donavon has to say in regards to Magery Banes. I acquired this one earlier this evening, and I'm pretty sure he has what it takes to go Chiv/AI and sing, but I'm not 100% sure - opinions?
View attachment 92757

Unfortunately there was a lot of inaccurate information in Donovan's post. Particularly about mana, and how focus works, the passive and some other things. I will chalk it up to meds and end it with that.

If there was ever a bane to go Chiv/AI, it would be that one. 70% str, 70% max total resists .

 

[Dantes]

Unfortunately there was a lot of inaccurate information in Donovan's post. Particularly about mana, and how focus works, the passive and some other things. I will chalk it up to meds and end it with that.

If there was ever a bane to go Chiv/AI, it would be that one. 70% str, 70% max total resists .

Care to elaborate a bit more on the inaccuracies? Not so much the inaccurate part, but correcting the information for those of us without the knowledge already Please and thank you!

 

[Pawain]

@Dantes Yup The resists are what makes that one so high. Difficult to get 5 good rolls there. If you want a Mage Bane you really should use a lower value one. There's probably someone out there that would give you 2 low banes for that one! Run that through the planner, you may not have to compensate very much for a 120 bane on that one.

 

[Silent Singer]

Ok all, I think I have located the last scroll I needed for the Siege Chiv Bane. I re-did the plan based on some of the info above.

@Khaelor What were the specific items you thought were incorrect about @Donavon 's suggestion above?

Two final questions:

1. Is there still a specific order AI and the magic skill need to be added? Or can I add both in the fourth round in any order?

2. (Just a curiosity) I'm not sure how Karma works on pets with Chiv but is can a poisoning pet lose Karma and be counterproductive with Chiv (I doubt this is the case but it was one of those 'hmmm' shower moments)

Thanks again all!

 

[Pawain]

Two final questions:

1. Is there still a specific order AI and the magic skill need to be added? Or can I add both in the fourth round in any order?

2. (Just a curiosity) I'm not sure how Karma works on pets with Chiv but is can a poisoning pet lose Karma and be counterproductive with Chiv (I doubt this is the case but it was one of those 'hmmm' shower moments)

AI then Chiv

Pets do not have any concerns with Karma. A player must have positive Karma to add Chiv.

 

[celticus]

Unfortunately there was a lot of inaccurate information in Donovan's post. Particularly about mana, and how focus works, the passive and some other things. I will chalk it up to meds and end it with that.

If there was ever a bane to go Chiv/AI, it would be that one. 70% str, 70% max total resists .

Can you list what the inaccurate information was about mana and focus? It will be good to know.

 

[Dantes]

Can you list what the inaccurate information was about mana and focus? It will be good to know.

I don't believe that information will be made public. I've been told there are a lot of secret tips and tricks surrounding various pets that like to be kept on the DL.

 

[celticus]

I don't believe that information will be made public. I've been told there are a lot of secret tips and tricks surrounding various pets that like to be kept on the DL.

Yep.. And specs on Bane training is one of them. Also concerns PVP with this specific pet.

 

[Khaelor]

I don't believe that information will be made public. I've been told there are a lot of secret tips and tricks surrounding various pets that like to be kept on the DL.

Our guild puts forth a lot of information to the public, we only have so much time to donate to updating our website each week. A lot of knowledge is out there though. We also have offered advice to many tamers on Atlantic.

There are currently no secrets that I'm aware of, unless people are trying to act like they know stuff or their pet is special when they usually don't know stuff and the pet is usually just messed up I see this on atlantic a lot, people often make up stuff and mechanics and really have no clue what they are talking about, often it's an attempt to sell a badly spec'd out pet for way too much money.

If we dont answer here it's because, is the time better spent writing a lengthy reply here or a general article on our webpage which we can therefor reference instead and will be kept up to date, etc.

View attachment 92949

Ok all, I think I have located the last scroll I needed for the Siege Chiv Bane. I re-did the plan based on some of the info above.

@Khaelor What were the specific items you thought were incorrect about @Donavon 's suggestion above?

Focus is 1 stam regen per 10 focus, so 100-120 would equal 2 additional stamina per 10 seconds.
Focus for mana regen would give an additional 6.75 mana over one minute. For a comparison point cost, spending those 20 points in Intelligence would return 6.6.
I would go with a focus scroll as it help mana regen and stam regen.

He's incorrect about needing 500 mana especially at the cost of Mana Regen or intelligence There is no "pause" in damage if you don't have 500 mana. Having 480 will not make a noticeable difference, will not create pauses or anything else. In the beginning of the fight, pets are using their mana reserve and their mana regen for abilities. Once the pet runs out of the mana pool, it's dependent on the regens. If the regens stats of the pet are low, that intial mana pool won't last as long. Also over combat that lasts just a few minutes better regens are more helpful than a larger initial mana pool. Int, mana regen, focus and med contribute to the mana regen formula. Remember the scale of UO is small. Chiv abilities cost as little as 10 mana, AI costs 30. We, personally, max mana regen on all our animals

If you were needing points to get int (and perhaps some mana regen up), I personally would take a few from mana, hp regen or go down to a 115 Tactics, as the difference in a 115 and 120 tactics in a normal melee is 1 point of damage preresists. And that gives 50 points right there. Yes, some people like the all 120s. You can look at our damage calculator to see the difference in damage both tactics and anatomy scrolls make.

 

[Khaelor]

One additional thing, when using the planner, due to rounding for mana/int/dex/stam, leave 4-5 points unspent.