Discussion: Resuming a Couple of Months with the New Pet System

[Eärendil]

Dear experts,
dear taming afficionados,

after playing around with the new training system for about 4 months now, I want to show you some better and some worse examples of my work - with a couple of questions and points for discussion. I would be very pleased about lots of feedback, comments and ideas.

Let me first show you the pets which work nicely and do their jobs intended. Interestingly, those arent always the ones with the highest intensities or best scrolls. Look for example at this first pet here:

CU SIDHE



It was my first try and I had absolutely ZERO scrolls in my accounts on Siege. Hence, I had to buy / trade some rather cheap ones to get started. I did everything the way folks told me on this board and the doggie does everything quite the way he should. He is a fast killer, heals nicely, can tank and casts the spells he has in a reasonable manner and quite frequently. I have no idea, why he has only a 62% intensity rating, because when tamed he was close to the maximum of hitpoints and other stats. But this pet is a good and reliable alround killer for most 1:1 situations I usually have to face when hunting. I am really happy with this doggie.

Then there is another quite nice pet, I am using frequently. It was ultimatively cheap to scroll up and subjectively feels like being one of my most versatile and powerful pets:

FIRESTEED



It mows through most spawns slightly or more susceptible to fire damage like a warm knife in butter. It was a pretty cheap build and I was able to put in all abilities and moves I wanted. However, the calculator says, it has a pretty low intensity. Why is that? This pet works better than most others I have but it was ultimatively cheap and the paperform says it is quite weak. No idea why. I would always do it the same and with a broader stock of 120 scrolls bring it up to legendary everywhere. I really use this fire dealer quite often and it never disappointed me. And its spellcasting has a good timing and is reliable.

Then there is this one:

FROST MITE



I use it for the roof and high end single targets like Corgul. I personally think it is a stunner. It is tough, deals tons of damage, almost never dies, and was a pretty cheap build, too. Didnt have to use expensive scrolls. Like above, works like a warm knife into butter. It pretty frequently uses rune corruption and then knocks out its Targets with poison and AI. Yet, the calculator says it has 5,22 % intensity rating? I did everything the experts told me and the mite does everything it should in a steady and realiable way. I would do it quite the same and - of course - use some higher scrolls, if I had some. But even in the current build it feels like a very very strong pet.

Here is another pet, I designed just like it wanted it:

NAJASAURUS



This guy solos Neira without any problems, never dies and kills the boss and its spawn with almost never falling below 85 % of hitpoints. I messed up the resists a bit, hence it works only in Special places. But this time I had some better scrolls and I decided not to overload it with abilities. As a result, the naja casts reliably his area affects, poisons heavily and hits quite hard. Best, however, is: You almost dont have to care about it. Ist very tough against spellcasters and can tank alot. The rating says 66,29 %. Well... no clue. But this pet - like the ones above - was a experiment that worked and I would do it right the same way agan.

Now let me please show you another experiment that pleases me alot:

TIGER



I had this black one in my stable and wanted to play around with it. I had not idea, how good the result would be. This pet is fast, tough, reliable. It was extremely cheap to build and I put in all the things I wanted: Ninja & FWW. It superbly kills stuff in spawns - at the right places up to the boss. And the FWW does even hurt many bosses quite hard. I had almost no expenses with this one and the FWW is stunning. He casts it at very good frequency and its just a joy to see the kitten kill and kill and kill and kill... I love it. Rating is 125,77 % It feels alike, whatever that means ;-) Ah, and it has 100 poisoning, but that doesnt appear in the sheet...

Ok, this first post is full. Those were the experiments I really liked and I will keep and use them all. Thanks for all the fantastic advice.

TO BE CONTINUED IN THE NEXT POSTING

 

[Eärendil]

Ok, now to my rather problematic examples. This one is a riddle to me:

NIGHTMARE



I spent some expensive scrolls (here on Siege, of course) and noticed, that Magery was dead as soon as I added Mysticism. It was one of my first experiments and you guys expained it to me, that this would happen. Nevertheless, some of you told me, mysticism would be a nice add-on. Well, I am not so convinced right now. Strangely, it has one of the highest intensities of all my pets - 234,65%? Well. As stated above, no idea. It was a tight build, I regret 2 things: I didnt increas strength to 700 and I forgot increasing resisting spells. I was a beginner and it feels like I messed it up a bit. Not that it does not work. It does. In certain places it does nice things and kills stuff. But rather slowly, as base damage is low and I couldnt increase it in none of the stages of training. No idea why. Everytime it casts nether cyclone or sleep or bombard, it looks nice and seems to work nicely. Same with cleansing winds. But I cannot manage spawns with it or harder bosses. Well, I can, but its no comparison to the good pets in the first post. It just dies a lot, shakes its head when I command it (I really dislike the nightmares personality) and tends to spend all its mana soon. The spells dont come reliably or frequently and it just doesnt feel right. No idea.

Then there is another example, but in another direction:

LESSER HIRYU



This one is interesting. I KNOW I messed it up, because I didnt notice that it already had 500 points lost for spellweaving when I bought it out of a pet vendor. I was a noob. I regret this, but interestingly, the pet works: I had only some scrolls left and tried to make something meaningful with the pet without spending too much gold for it. The bushido - whirlwind - grasping claw - combo is absolutely lovely. No idea why whirlwind attack does not show up in the calculator. But this pet can kill solo bosses, champs, spawns and almost never dies. Subjectively it feels like a survial hero. Must be the bushido. I dont have to heal it alot. It kills slower than the ones in the first post, but it is still a keeper - even though I lost 500 points due to my lack of experience. Maybe some day I will make a fresh bushido hiryu with 120 scrolls. I love it, it feels good, even though I think I messed it up a bit.

And here is my last example for somewhat problematic pets:

FROST DRAKE



This one is strange. I did everything the way I wanted to and it felt like I did it right. The abilites came in the right order, it was one of the last pets I built - I already had some knowledge. The scrolls again werent the best, but compared to the really good pets in the upper post, it still doesnt convince me. This was close to max in all stats, like 180 dex. But still it feels weak... It just doesnt kill that fast. I think I have to try places suitable for cold damage dealers.

What do you think about these frost drakes and this special build?

Thank you!

TO BE CONTINUED IN THE 3RD POSTING...

 

[Eärendil]

This is the last one, and lucky me: I havent touched it so far. I always loved reptalons. I know, you guys prefer cus and the reptalon eats up alot of mana. But I want to make it an every day killer, ultimatively versatile and reliable. Thats why I need your suggestions:

REPTALON



A friend tamed it for me, because I am not the most skilled tamer here on Siege and its is a bit more difficult here. I am very happy to have it in my stables. This time I will spend 120 scrolls for all skills. I just need to know what to do with it.

Chivalry & AI, I assume? Anything else?

I am REALLY looking forward to your thoughts, ideas, comments on all of my pets and I want to apologize for the length of this thread.

THANK YOU!

 

[Chrille]

On your frostdrake Im pretty sure its phys resist is a bit higher then 3.

 

[Eärendil]

Yes, that was a typo. I will correct it. Gimme a sec... ;-)

 

[SouthPaw]

This is the last one, and lucky me: I havent touched it so far. I always loved reptalons. I know, you guys prefer cus and the reptalon eats up alot of mana. But I want to make it an every day killer, ultimatively versatile and reliable. Thats why I need your suggestions:

REPTALON

View attachment 92216

A friend tamed it for me, because I am not the most skilled tamer here on Siege and its is a bit more difficult here. I am very happy to have it in my stables. This time I will spend 120 scrolls for all skills. I just need to know what to do with it.

Chivalry & AI, I assume? Anything else?

I am REALLY looking forward to your thoughts, ideas, comments on all of my pets and I want to apologize for the length of this thread.

THANK YOU!

Enjoyed all your posts. I have an AI/Chiv Reptalon that I love. They are one of the coolest looking pets using EC in my opinion.

 

[Eärendil]

Thank you, mate. AI + Chiv and how much HP/Mana did you choose?

 

[Max Blackoak]

In my opinion most of your pets could do with less hitpoints and use the points elsewhere. 120s for every skill comes to mind and contrary to what most people will tell you the difference is really noticeable. Typically I put between 550-700 hit points on my pets, 700 only on those that have enough left over points after everything else is maxed out. Then again I know you're a stealth tamer so you might not exactly be the active tamer who watches his pet's healthbar and heals/vets/runs consume damage...so maybe you need the higher hp for that...

 

[SouthPaw]

Thank you, mate. AI + Chiv and how much HP/Mana did you choose?

2 slot Reptalons have a lot of training points. I think mine has around 750 HP (I'm not home at the moment so I can't check). Most of my pets have 600 HP and 500 Mana, a few have more or less than that. Some pets just have a lot more training points available than others so you have to use the points somewhere. Lesser Hiryu's, tigers, naja's, reptalons, all get quite a few training points.

Pet's that have dragon breath tend to burn through mana fast, so you want to have 30 mana regen, 370 Int, and scrolls for meditation and focus also help. At least with Reptalons you get the HP pretty high so dragon breath does decent damage. Reptalon is the only pet I have with the paralyze ability, and I must say I like it, let me know what you think of it.

 

[Pawain]

The ones in the first post look great. Since you are limited on 120 scrolls you have more HP.

The mystic one is hurting because of the 600str. AI and chivalry are the best abilities you can add but that kinda gets boring building them all the same. Mystic is second best magic so you kinda see the difference, but it is not a good comparison without 700 str. The base pet build sets up the damage.

Im not impressed with Bushido on Tokuno pets but others are. The first things we built were Bushido pets because we wanted tanks we thought. But as soon as we stuck Chivalry on a pet we could see that killing the mob faster makes the pet have less need for tanky.

Keep building like the first post and you will have killer pets.

Like stated; build the 2 slot Reptation the same way with AI/Chiv

It is sad that we have 1 build that works for general purpose pets. I really hate telling people to build the same stuff over and over. Weaving pets cast WoD over and over while the target has high life. I asked K about magery last night, he said they are not adding magery to pets anymore.

There are a few different builds that a couple of posters have made. There are other builds that work for the naj since it can not get Chiv.

Very nice pet building!

 

[Khyro]

Dear experts,
dear taming afficionados,

after playing around with the new training system for about 4 months now, I want to show you some better and some worse examples of my work - with a couple of questions and points for discussion. I would be very pleased about lots of feedback, comments and ideas.

I'll try to answer some of the questions regarding general pet Intensity that you are seeing. The intensity rating isn't necessarily going to be indicative of how much damage the pet will do, but more along the lines of what you will be able to train on the pet. Most people have standard templates they like to follow, and then with the remainder of their training points they will bump Hits or Mana typically. Most pets will perform very similar if trained properly (assuming you take the proper pet to proper content, etc.)

The rating % is also dependent upon which pet you are looking at. Some pets, like Hiryus, have a spawn range of 932 intensity, which can make quite a big difference between a top-end and a low-end spawn. While something like a Fire Steed has a spawn range of only 300 intensity, making much less of an impact on a say 40% vs a 70% rated pet. This gap becomes even smaller on a 2-slot Reptalon, which has a spawn range of 227 (before they spawn as a 3 slot).

The smaller the spawn intensity range of a pet, the more drastic a few points here and there at spawn will be reflected in the actual % of the pet.

We typically tell people that a 50%-60% is a good pet for most pet types. A 70% is an excellent pet. An 80% is an amazing pet. Anything over 80% that does not spawn in multiple slots (Nightmare, Naja, Reptalon, Skree, etc.) is an amazing pet and incredibly difficult to find. A 90%+ single-slot pet would be next to impossible to naturally find in the wild, you'd probably have an easier time finding a Blaze Cu.

So don't get discouraged if your pets rate 50%-70%, that is a good target area to look for.

Let me first show you the pets which work nicely and do their jobs intended. Interestingly, those arent always the ones with the highest intensities or best scrolls. Look for example at this first pet here:

CU SIDHE


It was my first try and I had absolutely ZERO scrolls in my accounts on Siege. Hence, I had to buy / trade some rather cheap ones to get started. I did everything the way folks told me on this board and the doggie does everything quite the way he should. He is a fast killer, heals nicely, can tank and casts the spells he has in a reasonable manner and quite frequently. I have no idea, why he has only a 62% intensity rating, because when tamed he was close to the maximum of hitpoints and other stats. But this pet is a good and reliable alround killer for most 1:1 situations I usually have to face when hunting. I am really happy with this doggie.

So your Cu is rating a 62% because of it's resists. You actually have a very nice cu with 73/73 Cold/Energy, but since Cu's can spawn with up to 85/85 in those resists, the rating is actually showing lower because of that. If the pet is untrained, we have an option to set artificial resist caps based on preference, so you can see how the pet would rate with, say, a 75/75 cap instead of an 85/85. This can't be done with the trained pet calculator, which is why you are seeing a 62%. If we were to put artificial resist caps on cold/energy at say 75, the Cu would probably rate around a 72%, which is very good.

Then there is another quite nice pet, I am using frequently. It was ultimatively cheap to scroll up and subjectively feels like being one of my most versatile and powerful pets:

FIRESTEED

It mows through most spawns slightly or more susceptible to fire damage like a warm knife in butter. It was a pretty cheap build and I was able to put in all abilities and moves I wanted. However, the calculator says, it has a pretty low intensity. Why is that? This pet works better than most others I have but it was ultimatively cheap and the paperform says it is quite weak. No idea why. I would always do it the same and with a broader stock of 120 scrolls bring it up to legendary everywhere. I really use this fire dealer quite often and it never disappointed me. And its spellcasting has a good timing and is reliable.

As indicated above, Fire Steeds have a low spawn intensity range of only 300. A 47% is not bad at all. If you look at how much intensity it is actually missing from cap, you can see that it is only missing 160 intensity. Whereas your Cu above is actually 247 intensity from cap. If you had a perfect Fire Steed, this would essentially mean you could give it ~50 more hits. Since you trained it properly with 700 Str and Max base damage, you will not see a hit in performance as far as outgoing damage is concerned.

Then there is this one:

FROST MITE

I use it for the roof and high end single targets like Corgul. I personally think it is a stunner. It is tough, deals tons of damage, almost never dies, and was a pretty cheap build, too. Didnt have to use expensive scrolls. Like above, works like a warm knife into butter. It pretty frequently uses rune corruption and then knocks out its Targets with poison and AI. Yet, the calculator says it has 5,22 % intensity rating? I did everything the experts told me and the mite does everything it should in a steady and realiable way. I would do it quite the same and - of course - use some higher scrolls, if I had some. But even in the current build it feels like a very very strong pet.

Similar to above, this may just be a low-end 2-slot Frost Mite, but the intensity doesn't reflect the combat performance directly as long as it is well trained, which it appears to be.

One thing to consider also, is if you have any untrained points left on any of the pets. Make sure you enter those into the calculator, as those will affect the pet ratings as well.

Here is another pet, I designed just like it wanted it:

NAJASAURUS

This guy solos Neira without any problems, never dies and kills the boss and its spawn with almost never falling below 85 % of hitpoints. I messed up the resists a bit, hence it works only in Special places. But this time I had some better scrolls and I decided not to overload it with abilities. As a result, the naja casts reliably his area affects, poisons heavily and hits quite hard. Best, however, is: You almost dont have to care about it. Ist very tough against spellcasters and can tank alot. The rating says 66,29 %. Well... no clue. But this pet - like the ones above - was a experiment that worked and I would do it right the same way agan.

A well trained 2-slot Naja. The 66% is perfectly acceptable for a Naja, since they have so much training potential at 2 slots.

Now let me please show you another experiment that pleases me alot:

TIGER

I had this black one in my stable and wanted to play around with it. I had not idea, how good the result would be. This pet is fast, tough, reliable. It was extremely cheap to build and I put in all the things I wanted: Ninja & FWW. It superbly kills stuff in spawns - at the right places up to the boss. And the FWW does even hurt many bosses quite hard. I had almost no expenses with this one and the FWW is stunning. He casts it at very good frequency and its just a joy to see the kitten kill and kill and kill and kill... I love it. Rating is 125,77 % It feels alike, whatever that means ;-) Ah, and it has 100 poisoning, but that doesnt appear in the sheet...

I think the problem here is that you added Ninjitsu as a magical in the intensity calculator. When you give the pet FWW (both in-game and on the calculator), Ninjitsu is added into the cost automatically (which is why FWW costs 600 -- 100 for the ability, 500 for Ninjitsu). If you were to re-calculate the Tiger again and remove Ninjitsu, it should rate around a 62% pet, which is in the range of a good pet still.

Ok, now to my rather problematic examples. This one is a riddle to me:

NIGHTMARE

Was this a Legacy Nightmare? My guess is it is either a Legacy Nightmare (Pre-patch) and you used the normal Nightmare pet type, or there is a typo somewhere in the data entered. If it was a legacy, it would actually rate very low, so I'd be more inclined to think it's a little of both -- legacy nightmare with maybe a type somewhere on the calculator.

 

[Eärendil]

Thank you so much for your excellent review! And for all of your work and professionalism! Thats incredible.

I am benefiting very much from you and all the other experts here!

 

[tanotan]

I would train up a 2 slot reptalon, if you want a very usefull all around pet. For example: I tamed a two slot reptalon with 75 Energy Resist (they can have up to 85, so I was happy to find such a "low" energy resist reptalon). I gave it Chiv/AI and scrolled all skills to 120. It ended up with 835 HP/875 Mana, 700 Str/ 30 MR/20 HPR/5 SR. In my opinion: This is my best pvm pet and its a mount! Compare it with the best chiv/ai cu or nightmare or lesser hiryu or fire steed or other rideable pets. The 2 slot reptalon has a huge amount of trainings points and does elemental damage and no phys damage. Just my two cents..

 

[Eärendil]

About the frost drake: I cant see any mistakes I did with him (except that I dont have 120 scrolls in my stock). What do you think of their performance? He kills paragon balrons, but thats not my benchmark. I prefer places with good drops. Where can cold-damage-pets like him shine? Rikktor? Roof? Any further suggestions?

 

[Khaelor]

About the frost drake: I cant see any mistakes I did with him (except that I dont have 120 scrolls in my stock). What do you think of their performance? He kills paragon balrons, but thats not my benchmark. I prefer places with good drops. Where can cold-damage-pets like him shine? Rikktor? Roof? Any further suggestions?

Do you mostly solo on Siege? Is the frost drake's chivarly leveled?

 

[Eärendil]

Both, solo and group. And I am working on bringing up his chiv. It is capped at 115 and I am already at about 100...