What Camelot Unchained Might Mean For UO

[Blackie]

Camelot Unchained is in open Beta and is ranked as one of the most anticipated games out there by many industry sources. Camelot Unchained

Camelot unchained announced this week that they are implementing massive scale siege warfare, something that old school DAoC players will remember as PvP having been done right. A lot of DAoC players are in the beta already. It's a step up in graphics and has player run towns to build and defend and it very well might be the replacement to DAoC. I've checked it out a bit and was impressed. UO players may not be if they didn't play DAoC but take my word for it, DAoC players are a bit excited about this, some of them a lot in fact.

What that might mean for UO: DAoC is the other half of the UO/DAoC combo run by Broadsword entertainment and it's widely whispered that the company, being a small independent, may be treading water this year. To lose the player base of one of the two titles you run would not be a good thing financially.

Whisper:"Justin: “Daybreak’s going to announce a new EverQuest title, but it won’t be what we expect. Smaller studios, like SSG and Broadsword, are going to continue to tread water with interesting expansions and updates for their games that won’t quite recapture former glory.” Ask Mo: The hits and misses of Massively OP’s 2018 predictions | Massively Overpowered

Free to Play(EJ) for UO was supposed to have been a savior of sorts and was to have been given to both UO and DAoC but after it was implemented in UO Broadsword went silent about how effective it was in bringing in new players. They also delayed giving free to play to DAoC until sometime in 2019.

From a purely financial situation Camelot Unchained may indeed rock the Broadsword boat substantially, which wasn't gaining ground to begin with. It may very well be that if Broadsword falters that UO and DAoC's fates may be intertwined. More heroic efforts may be needed soon to continue keeping an official public server going.

I know they keep saying stuff like this but it's not too often that a clear competitor pops up vs UO, as it just did for DAoC. No need for hateful comments, "heard this before" etc... but do you think Camelot Unchained, and their recent announcement of adding siege warfare which made DAoC fun in the first place, is a threat to the DAoC playerbase? If it is, then it's going to hurt Broadsword, keepers of UO too.

I'd feel more confident in Broadsword at the moment if they spoke up but if there's nothing good to say why say anything right? Maybe if they'd update their copyright from 2014 that would be a good sign too, just saying.

As always you can help keep UO going by telling your friends about it and using the UO store to buy things.

 

[Blackie]

Also, in case you didn't know, Camelot Unchained is run by Mark Jacobs, former CEO of Mythic Entertainment. There is a measure of payback in play, wether they admit it or not, and UO is on the wrong side of that payback at the moment.

 

[Spartan]

Seems to me - before Trials of Atlantis - that there were three realms in DAoC as well. Sounds like Jacobs is somewhat reinventing history. IMO DAoC started downhill with ToA ... while good it couldn't keep my interest too well.

 

[Blackie]

Jacobs created DAoC, the game Broadsword owns now, and he's vying to build a better version in every way. He was CEO of Mythic, creator of many online games and has worked with EA. If there is one guy who can put DAoC, and half of Broadsword's offering, to pasture it's him.

All of my friends lost interest in DAoC when Trials of Atlantis came out, it forced so much grind onto players to "activate" weapons, and had to be redone on every toon, for every weapon, that it just got old. The latest developments truly do suggest that Camelot Unchained is absolutely serious about winning the hearts of DAoC players over.

Having played the game from release in 2001 until shortly after the trials expac and having checked out Unchained... Broadsword needs to come up with a plan, soon. Delaying free to play for DAoC subs probably didn't help either.

If you like PvP the game is built for you, if you prefer crafting you are relied on for almost all items and so are very important. Each of the three realms has unique races and classes. Player housing, merchants etc... it's all there.

While not a competitor to UO it is a competitor to Broadsword which will impact UO. Jacobs is back. I'm a bit sad for DAoC to be honest, it was an amazing game with a sense of working together I haven't seen in a game since. "Enemies at Caer Cardowyn, everyone go go go! Defend!" and everyone went, their towers were under actual real time siege by actual siege weaponry, rams, ballistas etc.

Jacobs joined EA who merged his Mythic with Bioware and later shut down Warhammer... so to see Jacobs back as CEO of a new company with a direct competitor, you'd better believe he's all in. There seems to be no response from Broadsword yet.

 

[Spartan]

I played up to shortly after ToA was released as well. I had a couple Hibernian characters that I really liked to use a lot.

I just read Foundational Principle #3 and man, does it describe UO in so many ways! Partial quote: " ... We removed points of frustration (I termed them “quit points” at Mythic), sped up the leveling curve (the argument being that games should not be harder to level than WoW), highlighted evolutionary or revolutionary new features to differentiate our games from our competition (extremely guilty as charged your honor!) and others too numerous to describe here. ... ". For the readers of this thread, this snippet is only part of game design discussion by Mark Jacobs himself.

 

[Blackie]

Lemme guess, one was a chanter right? Seems every Hibbie player had one, lots of fun. I was Midgard from day one, never created a toon for the other two realms, partly because you couldn't at first.

It looks like Unchained has a bit of that, if you declare your loyalty to one realm from day one you lock your account out of the others but get some nice rewards and perks.

Also, there is no pay to play, no store of items to make you more powerful, no money transactions. What you have you earn in Jacob's games and it means more to players in the long run.

 

[Spartan]

It appears to hark back to the old UO days of where crafters had a good sized part in the community AND in how one protected themself. Also did you notice that bag/bank are limitless ATM?

No chanter in Hib ... at least not that I recall. I did have a Midgard Shaman (similar I think) but didn't really get him well developed. Hib was Ranger (UO tamer equiv). I'm trying to remember as I left it a long while back. There were some others in warrior classes, too.

When I said before that Jacobs appeared to reinvent history in the realms, VIkings = Midgard; Tuatha De Danaan = Hibernians; Arthurian = (<ACK!> Whatever that third realm was). <looks at watch> Time for this ole coot to hit the rack. I'll read more on CU tomorrow.

Thanks for the game pointer. I like the prospects!

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

Yet the keep coming... and UO still stands.

Just think of the population returning if EA cut the monthly fees even a little.

 

[Zalan]

It wont have much if any Impact on UO. After 20+ years those of us left are not going any were. Current population will be here to the server go down for good.

 

[Blackie]

Yet the keep coming... and UO still stands.

Just think of the population returning if EA cut the monthly fees even a little.

Well, that's not going to happen after today's news. Camelot Unchained may be preparing to hammer the population of DAoC, Broadswords "other" game, but the news today from EA isn't good either.

EA is getting hammered on the stock market, they've lost 23 billion since June to be exact, not a small chunk of change. Battlefield V sales did not meet expectations and the full revolt against micro-transactions and "pay to win" is now more than just a meme, it's hitting EA on Wall st. Double whammy. Their cash cow didn't deliver and their very business model is under attack. UO is insignificant financially, lets hope they don't cut off too much to stem the bleeding.


EA has lost player good will now - and this video sums it up very well. Since June EA's stock have crashed by 45%. EA has "cleaned house" in the past and shut down games for much, much less.

Then there's the complete silence from Broadsword so... Keep your fingers crossed. Broadsword is described as a "small publisher just treading water", if that's true or not who knows. Nobody is talking.

 

[Spartan]

Soooo, this isn't the right time to ask for a raise?

 

[Nexus]

It wont have much if any Impact on UO. After 20+ years those of us left are not going any were. Current population will be here to the server go down for good.

I don’t think you are understanding the point in the initial post. This is a game designed to compete with DAoC, no one is expecting it to poach UO players. UO’s fate is currently tied to DAoC through Broadsword. If Camelot Unchianed is able to do significant damage to DAoC, especially when you consider that EA’s stock is tanking, profit estimations being lowered largely thanks to Battlefield V sales underperforming, and legal issues in Europe over FIFA 18 & 19, their contract with Broadsword may become a casualty if they decide to shed marginally profitable investments to focus on improving profits on what are historically better preforming IPs.

**Edit**

To give you an idea of how things are going for EA, here is a graph showing their stock fluctuations for the past year showing a loss of nearly 30% in value.

 

[Victim of Siege]

So now might be time to buy UO, if you have a couple of Mil laying around *chuckles*

 

[kelmo]

Tree fiddy!

 

[Eärendil]

Dont speculate, folks. Future always is uncertain. Only death is certain. Enjoy the game as long as you can. And if they pull the plug, we open up a freeshard!

Merry Christmas!

 

[MalagAste]

I don't know when they pull the plug I think I'll be lost for a long while.

 

[celticus]

Dont speculate, folks. Future always is uncertain. Only death is certain. Enjoy the game as long as you can. And if they pull the plug, we open up a freeshard!

Merry Christmas!

Yep!!

 

[celticus]

Nawww.. we"ll be playing uo till the cows come home, and the lights are out..

 

[ShriNayne]

I think the point some people are trying to make is that the lights might not stay on as long as we had hoped....EA are fickle and they don't care enough about UO to keep it around if they think they can save a few bucks. Nice to know if it all goes sideways @Eärendil will invite us all to EarendilWorld!

 

[Eärendil]

I think, there are many skilled and dedicated UO-players who would be able to offer a much better freeshard than me @Knuckleheads @Gilfane

 

[Danpal]

Dont speculate, folks. Future always is uncertain. Only death is certain. Enjoy the game as long as you can. And if they pull the plug, we open up a freeshard!

Merry Christmas!

You forgot one thing. Only death and taxes are certain.

 

[celticus]

Somehow this has been brought up before, the end is near, etc. over the last at least 10 years. Never happened, and 99% chance will not happen.
If you go to a busy shard and see the pple bank sitting, there is no room to sit there most of the day time. There are still thousands of loyal UO players, and they do produce some revenue for EA/UO/BS etc. I can't see them scrapping UO. There are some things hard to guess, one of them being how many active paying accounts are there, and the earnings before taxes for this specific item, UO. I think that they are still making expenses and more from UO.
There are people/companies out there that are jealous of how UO managed to survive 20+ years, with all the problems that it has had. I think the answer maybe a relatively loyal player base, and good community for the most part. We lost players yes, to real life/death, but still have a decent presence, that likely is carrying the load for the most part. I suspect UO is supporting itself financially, and not leaching $ from the EA/BS bank to stay alive..
Have fun and don't be anxious about UO closing. Will not happen.
Don't let the stock market full you and the stock price, as these depend on way too many variables, outside of UO etc.

 

[Nexus]

Somehow this has been brought up before, the end is near, etc. over the last at least 10 years. Never happened, and 99% chance will not happen.
If you go to a busy shard and see the pple bank sitting, there is no room to sit there most of the day time. There are still thousands of loyal UO players, and they do produce some revenue for EA/UO/BS etc. I can't see them scrapping UO. There are some things hard to guess, one of them being how many active paying accounts are there, and the earnings before taxes for this specific item, UO. I think that they are still making expenses and more from UO.
There are people/companies out there that are jealous of how UO managed to survive 20+ years, with all the problems that it has had. I think the answer maybe a relatively loyal player base, and good community for the most part. We lost players yes, to real life/death, but still have a decent presence, that likely is carrying the load for the most part. I suspect UO is supporting itself financially, and not leaching $ from the EA/BS bank to stay alive..
Have fun and don't be anxious about UO closing. Will not happen.
Don't let the stock market full you and the stock price, as these depend on way too many variables, outside of UO etc.

EA was going to scrap UO years ago, it was only EA saddling it on Rob Denton as a condition of Broadsword getting to manage DAoC that has kept it going. UO’s continuance is dependent on itself and possibly to a greater extent DAoC doing well enough to keep EA sated. The OPs main point condensed comes down to: Any potential threat to DAoC is a threat to UO.

 

[Spartan]

EA was going to scrap UO years ago, it was only EA saddling it on Rob Denton as a condition of Broadsword getting to manage DAoC that has kept it going. UO’s continuance is dependent on itself and possibly to a greater extent DAoC doing well enough to keep EA sated. The OPs main point condensed comes down to: Any potential threat to DAoC is a threat to UO.

Yup. Dey be joined at the hip and Broadsword is the glue.

 

[Beldin Brightaxe]

I was trying to find a release date on this. But, while it is in open beta, the most optimistic date is the end of 2019.

 

[celticus]

I was trying to find a release date on this. But, while it is in open beta, the most optimistic date is the end of 2019.

May never happen..lol

 

[celticus]

Camelot Unchained is in open Beta and is ranked as one of the most anticipated games out there by many industry sources. Camelot Unchained

Camelot unchained announced this week that they are implementing massive scale siege warfare, something that old school DAoC players will remember as PvP having been done right. A lot of DAoC players are in the beta already. It's a step up in graphics and has player run towns to build and defend and it very well might be the replacement to DAoC. I've checked it out a bit and was impressed. UO players may not be if they didn't play DAoC but take my word for it, DAoC players are a bit excited about this, some of them a lot in fact.

What that might mean for UO: DAoC is the other half of the UO/DAoC combo run by Broadsword entertainment and it's widely whispered that the company, being a small independent, may be treading water this year. To lose the player base of one of the two titles you run would not be a good thing financially.

Whisper:"Justin: “Daybreak’s going to announce a new EverQuest title, but it won’t be what we expect. Smaller studios, like SSG and Broadsword, are going to continue to tread water with interesting expansions and updates for their games that won’t quite recapture former glory.” Ask Mo: The hits and misses of Massively OP’s 2018 predictions | Massively Overpowered

Free to Play(EJ) for UO was supposed to have been a savior of sorts and was to have been given to both UO and DAoC but after it was implemented in UO Broadsword went silent about how effective it was in bringing in new players. They also delayed giving free to play to DAoC until sometime in 2019.

From a purely financial situation Camelot Unchained may indeed rock the Broadsword boat substantially, which wasn't gaining ground to begin with. It may very well be that if Broadsword falters that UO and DAoC's fates may be intertwined. More heroic efforts may be needed soon to continue keeping an official public server going.

I know they keep saying stuff like this but it's not too often that a clear competitor pops up vs UO, as it just did for DAoC. No need for hateful comments, "heard this before" etc... but do you think Camelot Unchained, and their recent announcement of adding siege warfare which made DAoC fun in the first place, is a threat to the DAoC playerbase? If it is, then it's going to hurt Broadsword, keepers of UO too.

I'd feel more confident in Broadsword at the moment if they spoke up but if there's nothing good to say why say anything right? Maybe if they'd update their copyright from 2014 that would be a good sign too, just saying.

As always you can help keep UO going by telling your friends about it and using the UO store to buy things.

Camelot unchained nuking UO is uttermost BS. Camelot unchained is a PVP geared game, different realms of players trying to kill one another, mixed with crafting building structures, and good graphics. We have seen these type of games over and over again and the UO still stands, years down the line.
Remember LOL? League of legends with many players using that..UO still stands. Many other games with graphics perks have come and gone also. UO stands.
UO is not just a PVP game, it stands alone for what it is. It is not conquering other players realms, it tons more. I dont think that Camelot unchained will affect UO at all, since the player base of UO has been loyal for many years. Time has proven it. No we are not deluding ourselves. Yes the market has not been favorable, and there have been market losses, and revenue losses. It has been like this for many years.
Now if there was another UO, exactly like UO, it may be different. But will not happen from a major, public company due to copywrights, so it will not happen. Freeshards copy cat UO shards have been around for many years also. UO still stands.
UO is very unique on its own, as it is a true sandbox, and not PVP only or PVE only based.
It needs reworking of the basic engine, better graphics, and some more innovative storylines. But it is great as it is, and even more importantly, it has perhaps the best community.
The EJ system and UO needs to be promoted a little better to get NEW players, and have good incentives fo new subscriptions also. The game is 20+ years old.
Lots of players have left not to go play another MMO, but because of age, real life circumstances, etc. It is not due to things like Camelot Unchained or other similar MMO's.
Doomsayers have been with us for as long as I can recall from years past.

 

[MalagAste]

Camelot unchained nuking UO is uttermost BS. Camelot unchained is a PVP geared game, different realms of players trying to kill one another, mixed with crafting building structures, and good graphics. We have seen these type of games over and over again and the UO still stands, years down the line.
Remember LOL? League of legends with many players using that..UO still stands. Many other games with graphics perks have come and gone also. UO stands.
UO is not just a PVP game, it stands alone for what it is. It is not conquering other players realms, it tons more. I dont think that Camelot unchained will affect UO at all, since the player base of UO has been loyal for many years. Time has proven it. No we are not deluding ourselves. Yes the market has not been favorable, and there have been market losses, and revenue losses. It has been like this for many years.
Now if there was another UO, exactly like UO, it may be different. But will not happen from a major, public company due to copywrights, so it will not happen. Freeshards copy cat UO shards have been around for many years also. UO still stands.
UO is very unique on its own, as it is a true sandbox, and not PVP only or PVE only based.
It needs reworking of the basic engine, better graphics, and some more innovative storylines. But it is great as it is, and even more importantly, it has perhaps the best community.
The EJ system and UO needs to be promoted a little better to get NEW players, and have good incentives fo new subscriptions also. The game is 20+ years old.
Lots of players have left not to go play another MMO, but because of age, real life circumstances, etc. It is not due to things like Camelot Unchained or other similar MMO's.
Doomsayers have been with us for as long as I can recall from years past.

It wasn't that it would crush UO it was that it may crush DAoC... which UO rides on it's coattails... if that dies EA will close Broadsword more than likely and therefore UO goes by the wayside with it... the two are now forever linked... the fear was that it would be something to kill DAoC and therefore the threat is there.

Now there have been doom sayers since day one of UO... heck even prior to day 1.... in it's beta and all but UO has survived in a sense of the word... however I don't know what we have now is called survival.... or just some painful reminder of what was...

As I see it UO has become the Mesanna free shard... where we all pay for the privilege to still be here. Consider whatever you like.

 

[celticus]

Looks I missed the original point. Guess it was a little complex for my simple mind.
But also: DAoC is well established for many years, and has an established player base. By the way they also have their own version of EJ as it looks, they named it Eternal Conquest. Based on the fact they cater to PvP also, and constant war with different realms. Hard to believe that DAoC will die due to CU-Camelot unchained. If it will most likely will die a low death, like UO has supposedly being doing for no less than 20 years.
My point is that different game genres appeal to different people different ways. So the advent of C. Unchained may have no real impact. Also CU is on beta for indefinite time, supported by donations at present, and no definite form so far. I dont think the graphics alone will make it win, and they will be competing against a well established game, DAoC..Hopefully with a loyal base.
Used to play a game called "Avatar" later named "Navatar" back in college. A stick figure black and white graphics MMO with massive amount of items, monsters, dungeon levels etc..etc..On a PDP university old Cyber server, written with Plato language. A true relic of a game. So after U of Illinois scrapped the old Plato system and its servers, and replaced it with PC-based campus interconnection, and the advent of internet..I looked up to see what happened to the old Avatar game: Few sentimentalists got the Avatar working on a personal server, connected it to the web, and still play Avatar the old stick figure game! They all have chars now level 800-900, but they still have fun with it, in spite of all the high graphics and color graphics MMOs. I guess it is the content that keeps the there.

 

[Nexus]

Looks I missed the original point. Guess it was a little complex for my simple mind.
But also: DAoC is well established for many years, and has an established player base. By the way they also have their own version of EJ as it looks, they named it Eternal Conquest. Based on the fact they cater to PvP also, and constant war with different realms. Hard to believe that DAoC will die due to CU-Camelot unchained. If it will most likely will die a low death, like UO has supposedly being doing for no less than 20 years.
My point is that different game genres appeal to different people different ways. So the advent of C. Unchained may have no real impact. Also CU is on beta for indefinite time, supported by donations at present, and no definite form so far. I dont think the graphics alone will make it win, and they will be competing against a well established game, DAoC..Hopefully with a loyal base.
Used to play a game called "Avatar" later named "Navatar" back in college. A stick figure black and white graphics MMO with massive amount of items, monsters, dungeon levels etc..etc..On a PDP university old Cyber server, written with Plato language. A true relic of a game. So after U of Illinois scrapped the old Plato system and its servers, and replaced it with PC-based campus interconnection, and the advent of internet..I looked up to see what happened to the old Avatar game: Few sentimentalists got the Avatar working on a personal server, connected it to the web, and still play Avatar the old stick figure game! They all have chars now level 800-900, but they still have fun with it, in spite of all the high graphics and color graphics MMOs. I guess it is the content that keeps the there.

It doesn't have to die, it just has to stop generating enough revenue for EA to decide it's not worth paying Broadsword to maintain it, if DAoC goes UO does as well. The opposite is also true, if EA decided UO wasn't making enough to be worth paying Broadsword it would likely cause the closure of DAoC. Here's the part where Camelot Unchained is a potential risk: Camelot Unchained is being developed by Mark Jacobs, he co-founded Mythic with Rob Denton and DAoC was one of their first projects. There will be a certain amount of draw based strictly on that, we've seen the same thing happen with Shroud of the Avatar where some long time UO players tried it and a few stayed. If Camelot Unchained is a good game, it could might be able to hold more than a few of the DAoC fans who try it.


No one is saying Camelot Unchained is going to kill UO. What is being said is that a perfect storm of probabilities is starting to form that UO, and more importantly DAoC have to weather.

 

[MalagAste]

Well if the release of Shards didn't kill UO I highly doubt this will kill DAoC... Shards was done by former UO DEVs... the game is sadly awful... and cartoonish.

 

[celticus]

It doesn't have to die, it just has to stop generating enough revenue for EA to decide it's not worth paying Broadsword to maintain it, if DAoC goes UO does as well. The opposite is also true, if EA decided UO wasn't making enough to be worth paying Broadsword it would likely cause the closure of DAoC. Here's the part where Camelot Unchained is a potential risk: Camelot Unchained is being developed by Mark Jacobs, he co-founded Mythic with Rob Denton and DAoC was one of their first projects. There will be a certain amount of draw based strictly on that, we've seen the same thing happen with Shroud of the Avatar where some long time UO players tried it and a few stayed. If Camelot Unchained is a good game, it could might be able to hold more than a few of the DAoC fans who try it.


No one is saying Camelot Unchained is going to kill UO. What is being said is that a perfect storm of probabilities is starting to form that UO, and more importantly DAoC have to weather.

I see your point. By the way : Is the "Camelot" name not patented by EA? Is this CES or something company legal in using the name Camelot something, on an MMO with similar structure? Also if this CES is a small developer, they could be bought eventually by EA? CES is supposed to be a registered, legit co, unlike the 101 free basement type freeshards that carry parts of the name Ultima on Line, or different eras that UO has used. UO cannot go after these due to massive legal fees for court battles I assume. But if a legal, (somewhat known) and registered developer uses name of other items that originated in UO, maybe a different matter. Not sure, just guessing.
Also there is no date for release yet of Camelot Unchained, or any estimate for that..

 

[Nexus]

I see your point. By the way : Is the "Camelot" name not patented by EA? Is this CES or something company legal in using the name Camelot something, on an MMO with similar structure? Also if this CES is a small developer, they could be bought eventually by EA? CES is supposed to be a registered, legit co, unlike the 101 free basement type freeshards that carry parts of the name Ultima on Line, or different eras that UO has used. UO cannot go after these due to massive legal fees for court battles I assume. But if a legal, (somewhat known) and registered developer uses name of other items that originated in UO, maybe a different matter. Not sure, just guessing.
Also there is no date for release yet of Camelot Unchained, or any estimate for that..

Probably for the same reason Shroud of the Avatar can call their "World" Britannia. Titles and Names can't be copyrighted.