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Help with my tamer template

SouthPaw

Lore Master
My current template is:
Taming
Animal lore
Vet
Magery
Music
Discord
Meditation

I've been thinking about dropping the music/discord for awhile now. In my opinion the discord failure rate is too high and the timer to use the skill is too long. Otherwise I love what it does, it just doesn't do it fast enough or reliable enough for me.

I'm considering replacing music/disco with either Spellweaving/Eval Int OR Necro/SS (I'd likely change med for eval int with this choice too).

I don't have much experience with either of those magics. I've heard good things about both. Which would be better on a tamer do you think? This character is mainly for doing champ spawns, Shadowguard, and general dungeon hunting. I've reviewed what spells they get and I'm leaning towards Necro, it just sounds more fun, but having never used it on a player I don't know. Thanks for your help!
 
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Caitlyn Snow

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
The fail rate is what keeps Discord from being nerfed.
It can be a pain to build the stockpile, but slayer instruments drastically reduce the fail rate. The most annoying creatures that take a while to discord are dinosaurs, but everything else is fairly simple.
If you do decide to drop it, go with something that augments what you normally hunt.
I have a tamer specifically built for Shadowguard, with Spellweaving/Med and enough +Focus gear that I can keep up a stream of GHs and WODs and not lose my consume spell to mana loss.
 

Xris

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I run tame/lore/mage/med/eval/sw and it's excellent. Necro is great for spawns. Sometimes I switch to tame/lore/necro/ss/resist/sw which brings spawn down fast but have to rely on sw for healing pet (so pet must be trained). You could drop resist for vet/mage if your not comfortable with it. Both temps are good but I think necro is a little better for Champs.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Thanks guys! I'm now looking at one of these 2 specs:

Taming
Lore
Vet
Mage
Eval
Necro
SS

OR

Tame
Lore
Vet
Mage
Eval
SW
Med

Guess I should probably try them out on test center.
 

Xris

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I'd take out vet and use resist for spawns. Vet not really needed for Champs, I just soulstone vet and use as needed. Lichs ect... Can be annoying without resist.
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Thanks guys! I'm now looking at one of these 2 specs:

Taming
Lore
Vet
Mage
Eval
Necro
SS

OR

Tame
Lore
Vet
Mage
Eval
SW
Med

Guess I should probably try them out on test center.
Both builds will work, but it will depend on the content you are doing to determine which one will be more efficient. You also want to try and get as much Spell Damage Increase as possible on your suit, as this will greatly help.

I have 2 tamers, one of which rotates between 2 builds quite frequently depending on the content I'm doing.

Tamer 1
Taming
Lore
Magery
Eval
Spellweaving
Necromancy
Spirit Speak
Meditation

Note, these are not all active at once. Just the skills I often switch between.

Tamer 1, Spec 1 - Spellweaving Necromage:
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore
106 Magery
120 Eval Int
100 Necromancy
102 Spirit Speak
120 Spellweaving
149% SDI

I use this template for most champ spawns, peerless bosses, and other content where Wraith Form can leech mana. If the targets you are killing don't have mana to leech, you will run out of mana very quickly.

This is basically the best of everything:

106 Magery, 120 Eval:
- You have the full support of Magery at your disposal up 100% success rate at 7th circle. The only 8th circle spell I use is Resurrection, so I'm fine with that not being 100%
- Energy Bolt/Flamestrike with high SDI and a slayer spellbook do wonders for single target damage

100 Necromancy, 102 Spirit Speak:
- You have 100% success rate with Necromancy spells up to Wither.
- You can Wither for close-range AOE at spawns
- You can Corpse-Skin individual targets/bosses.
- Wraith Form leeches 20% mana, which is more than enough to sustain (and you can't get stamina blocked in Fel while in Wraith form)

120 Spellweaving:
- You can WoD the Boss
- You have Thunderstorm for a large radius AOE (combined with Wither is really powerful clear)
- You can self res yourself or your pet
- You have a powerful heal-over-time spell

Downside:
- Very mana intensive. If you cannot leech mana in Wraith Form, you will have a rough time.
- No Vet. @Khaelor gives me grief everytime my pet dies because I have to ask them for a rez~. But honestly, my pets don't die often between healing, consume, and gift of renewal. Chances are if the pet is dead, then the group is also probably dead.

Tamer 1, Spec 2: - Necromage:
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore
106 Magery
120 Eval Int
100 Necromancy
102 Spirit Speak
120 Meditation
149% SDI

As you can see, this is identical to the above spec, but with Spellweaving swapped for Meditation. This is my personal choice, as it allows me to corpse skin + flamestrike still. You miss out on WoD and the other goodies from Spellweaving, but if you have no mana, you are doing no damage anyways.

You could also easily take Med to 100 and swap out Necromancy, or 102 and swap out Spirit Speak and keep Spellweaving in your template.

Downside:
- No Vet (sorry again, @Khaelor)
- No Spellweaving, so loss of some utility. Or keep Spellweaving and drop Necromancy, which results in loss of utility and damage.

This tamer has an incredibly particular item build that took a while to put together to achieve the necessary +skills and SDI. If you were around for the 20th Anniversary event, the high SDI spellbooks are extremely useful. If you don't have access to one of those, you will need to settle for a Scrappers. Even running 100 SDI will make a huge difference in your outgoing damage, so I would definitely try to get SDI on your suit.


Tamer 2 - Spellweaving Mage
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore
120 Veterinary
120 Spellweaving
106 Magery
120 Eval Intelligence
75 Meditation
101% SDI

This is a more traditional Tamer build and probably one of the more common ones. It has Vet (which the other tamer does not use), Magery/Eval, and Spellweaving. This is still an extremely efficient tamer build. You do lose the mana leech from Wraith form, corpse skin, and wither. However you do get the benefit of Vet healing and can still nuke with Flamestrike/Energy Bolt, and have all the goodies from Spellweaving. It can be a little mana hungry with no leeching and only 75 med. You could lower Vet to 100 and pump more into Med (I run 120 vet mainly for the stable slot increase).

This tamer is more suited for single combat fights, Peerless, Shadowguard, etc. It can still do well at champ spawns, but my Necromage tamer listed above will outperform this spec at champ spawns.

I've never needed Resisting Spells on my tamers. I'm sure it would have been useful in certain situations I've been in (mainly those mana draining jerks), but personally I find other skills more beneficial to my playstyle.

Taming really relies on your supplemental skills to maximize your effectiveness. Whether those skills are Discord, Necromage, Spellweaving, Archer Hybrid, etc. If you aren't using those skills, you are losing out on potential.

Our guild has a Disco Tamer, and I love the effects of Discordance, but unfortunately those skill points are often wasted. Discord is useless against any peerless boss, and it also becomes useless if there is more than 1 Discord in the group (another Tamer/Bard, or a pet with Discord).

In the end, I would definitely experiment with different builds and see how you like them. Everyone's playstyle is different and what works for some may not work for you, etc. Just remember, some builds may require specific armor/jewelry to really make it work (+skills and sdi), which can be hard to replicate on test center.
 
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Khaelor

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
its pretty rare for @Khyro 's pet to die, high void pool waves and doom when we are duoing are a majority of deaths. We do a lot of content with his necro and then myself on my sw tamer. They compliment each other well, I can consume, vet or greater heal, if needed then wod and supplement spellcast. He can just cast all day long while his pet kills stuff.

Sw has a lot of really nice support spells.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Thanks Khyro! I really want to keep vet for this tamer. Maybe some day I'll make a 2nd tamer without vet, but for this one I really want the healing/rezing ability as well as the extra stable slots.

I think I want to change out Music/Discord to Necro/SS. I have a cu with discord, so I can still use him.
Leaning towards this build:
Taming
Lore
Vet
Mage/Eval
Necro/SS

A little concerned about mana regen, not having meditation, but wraith form should help with that, plus my avatar has 200 mana, max mana regen and max LMC.
 

Xris

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I also use:
Tame
Lore
Necro
Ss
Myst
Focus
Med

It's never failed me at a champ spawn :)
Just something to think about.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
The SW tamer appeals to me a lot too, and I know a lot of people use it. As much as I want to try it, I don't want to make a 2nd tamer right now.
 

PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Don't forget, that Necromancers can also use Necro Mastery for Command Undead, and take control of 2 Skeletal Dragons while still riding an Ethy. Command Undead will grant the Skeletal Dragons Life Leech, so they can self heal through dealing melee damage, and they deal a lot of it. They'll occasionally Wither as well. Between 2 Skeletal Dragons tanking, and you spamming Wither in Wraith Form, a full Necro/Mage would gain a similar benefit from his 2 Skeletal Dragons as a Tamer does from a pet. Only pain is, you have to go and Command the Skeletal Dragons each time you want to do something, and they're not bonded, so you have to gate them everywhere.

A Necro/Mage having 2 Skele Drags, is like if a Tamer could have 2 Shadow Wyrms, but even nastier due to the up to 200 DEX and Life Leech.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Don't forget, that Necromancers can also use Necro Mastery for Command Undead, and take control of 2 Skeletal Dragons while still riding an Ethy. Command Undead will grant the Skeletal Dragons Life Leech, so they can self heal through dealing melee damage, and they deal a lot of it. They'll occasionally Wither as well. Between 2 Skeletal Dragons tanking, and you spamming Wither in Wraith Form, a full Necro/Mage would gain a similar benefit from his 2 Skeletal Dragons as a Tamer does from a pet. Only pain is, you have to go and Command the Skeletal Dragons each time you want to do something, and they're not bonded, so you have to gate them everywhere.

A Necro/Mage having 2 Skele Drags, is like if a Tamer could have 2 Shadow Wyrms, but even nastier due to the up to 200 DEX and Life Leech.
Can't wait to try it! Just got my Necro and SS to GM, need to get a mastery book.
 
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