@kyronix, @Mesanna, @Bleak Next step to pet revamp?

[celticus]

Hate to bring this up again:
Pet upgrade white PS are needed in large amounts for the pet revamp.
Right now at spawns 6 - 7 drop and they are mostly useless for pets.
Can you increase the drop rate of PS in general or increase the pet specific PS drop a little bit at least?
What are mostly needed are : Wres, Tactics, Anat, Resist spells, Parry.
Most of what we get is 110's 115's : Ninjitsu, Swords, Fencing, Macing, etc..
Can you increase the 120's a little?
The numbers dropping increase from 6-7 to like 15-20?
No code change, just tweak the numbers a little?
I suspect more tamers and most PK/PVP players would agree?
What do you think about this? Please post your opinions here, both PK/PVP and tamer players?

 

[SouthPaw]

Agree completely. Very difficult or very expensive to get the scrolls that are needed.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm sick of all the grind and trying to wrestle PS's out of the hands of PKs... so I just kinda quit working pets, quit doing the roof, quit pretty much playing save for a couple meetings here and there and the EM Event on my shard and lately haven't even done that.

 

[Lex Darion]

I disagree.
PS on pets is supposed to be highend training. The risk vs reward is important, remove that and this game will just be way too easy.

I can dish out a lot of pets with scrolls. I dont know what you are doing, but if you cant get scrolls you're doing it wrong.
You can start with minor scrolls (105 / 110's) and go from there.

If you need help with getting scrolls, let me know.
There's a bunch of good guilds that are PVM that run champs on atlantic, even with risk of facing pk's.

 

[celticus]

I suspect this is a time to change some things about the pet PS. I understand the frustration about the grinding needed to get them, but I think that if we can have a consensus of players of all play styles, not only tamers but PVP/PK styles, the Devs may eventually do something. At the very least they could improve the numbers of the PS dropping at spawns, and it would be nice if the numbers for the most important for pets scrolls could be upped a little bit.
They gave us the gift of the pet revamp, which is great, but now time to deal with some of the reprecussions, such as the huge supply/demand mismatch for PS esp for pet upgrade (Wres, Tact, Anat, Resist, Parry at least, and the magics).
Other people have suggested that also, like Ms Echo from Siege, and some others.

I would vote to increase the numbers dropping, and some tweaks. Will not take much time/effort or coding from the Devs, and will not unbalance the game. It also is likely to improve player satisfaction, and prevent some of the player frustration, and some players becoming disenchanted, and eventually leaving.
But we got to vote/post our opinions here. Or absolutely nothing will ever happen.

Would very much like to hear what our PVP/PK community feels about bumping up the total # PS dropping, their opinion also greatly appreciated. Should not affect their play style much, and may bump up PVP/PK a little bit also..

 

[celticus]

I disagree.
PS on pets is supposed to be highend training. The risk vs reward is important, remove that and this game will just be way too easy.

I can dish out a lot of pets with scrolls. I dont know what you are doing, but if you cant get scrolls you're doing it wrong.
You can start with minor scrolls (105 / 110's) and go from there.

If you need help with getting scrolls, let me know.
There's a bunch of good guilds that are PVM that run champs on atlantic, even with risk of facing pk's.

i have no problem with getting PS. Its that they are few and mostly useless LOL. Its a grind but its always doable. I dont mind being PKed. Agree risk/reward idea. But looking at the most desirable PS they dont seem to drop somehow. (Maybe my RND etc). But others say the same. Would need to do massive spawning to get the right PS the way they drop, probably a full time job doing that lol.
What adverse effect would have if just the numbers of PS dropping was increased to say 15? And with Knight of Justice 30? What would the negatives be?
That is the information I am trying to gather from the more expert players.
Also if there is no consensus agreement nothing will happen.

 

[Lex Darion]

Upping droprate of PS would upset price balance on pets.
Actually would make all other pets than prepatch and such drop its value by a lot since powerscroll prices will crash.

The high price / demand is meant as a goldsink. If powerscroll price drops, we'll see prices on other items go up. Rares etc.
I recommend checking on micro and macro economics. EVE Online actually hired an economics professor to make balance patches that could change the markets in EVE.
Very fine adjustments are required in any game that is hypercapitalistic.

 

[celticus]

Upping droprate of PS would upset price balance on pets.
Actually would make all other pets than prepatch and such drop its value by a lot since powerscroll prices will crash.

The high price / demand is meant as a goldsink. If powerscroll price drops, we'll see prices on other items go up. Rares etc.
I recommend checking on micro and macro economics. EVE Online actually hired an economics professor to make balance patches that could change the markets in EVE.
Very fine adjustments are required in any game that is hypercapitalistic.

Agree that prices in PS will diminish but doubt they may crash. 40-50 M for tact/Wres scrolls are still pretty high in a lot of shards. A nicely trained carefully trained and upgraded pet will maintain a huge value due to the time involved to train and test and plan such a pet, and lots of factors play in such as color etc.
I agree though that a pet that consumed 100 M on PS a few months ago will be painful to look at when PS values decrease. The PS prices need some check point. Or they will remain very high for long time. They have come down just a little bit, but still really hard to face by many people in the game.
Perhaps a little up-adjustment to the drop rates, and see what happens. Things cannot get much worse than they are now with these being unavailable vs needing to make it a full time job to spawn them, for the majority of players.
I suspect that if the drop rates improve, lots more of people will try to go to spawns, and it would be great for both tamers that wish to take the risk, and also for our PVP/PK teams, so everyone would be happy. And at the same time may help the price bloat a little bit.
But I guarrantee you nothing may happen, especially if we do not agree..

 

[Mordha]

I don’t PvP. I am not a pk. I don’t do fel champs.
With that said, I respectfully disagree with this. I do have a few 120 scrolls I acquired last year before the revamp, I’ve also used the ones I have very sparingly. Which is why I still have one set left.
The reason for this? Not all pets deserve a full set of 120 scrolls. I’ll let you in on a little secret, I’ve bought 110’s and 115’s, which happen to be somewhat reasonable. And guess what, my pets, that I’ve used those scrolls on, still do very well!
I even have pets I didn’t bother throwing scrolls at. And guess what, they do well too!
Why am I pointing this out? Because I’m fine with the “rarity” of the 120 scrolls and asking for drop rates to be “better” and/or “higher” is just plain a bad idea.
Now, for one thing I would be ok to see happen. How about having 105 and very very rarely 110 scrolls drop from Illshenar champs? I don’t think that would break anything, it might even encourage people to try fel champs for the higher scrolls. Just a small suggestion.

 

[Max Blackoak]

@celticus with the current system you get 6 powerscrolls to drop from a champ + 6 additional ones when you use protection the correct way (i.e. the protector is knight of justice and does not damage the champ, or heal others as to not get looting rights himself). I have never had problems getting the powerscrolls I needed. Sure, 120 resist is somewhat rarer than say 120 anatomy but I always had what I needed after a couple of champ spawns. I always kept the lesser powerscrolls and bound them until I had enough 15s to bind a 120 too. It's a slower process but it will still get you additional 120s, so why not.
I really don't see why the number of powerscrolls dropping should be increased. It's fine the way it is, especially beacause you can't loose when doing champ spawns: even if you didn't get that 120 you were actually looking for, you get 12 powerscrolls to either sell or keep, you get 300k+, you get mastery primers, some of which you can sell for a pretty penny if you don't wanna use them yourself and you get dungeon artifacts, SoTs and 105s for doing the spawn. You really can't loose. Over time you will either get the scroll you're looking for, or you will have made enough money to afford buying one.

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

I’m fine with the current drop rate, but either the RNG is cursed, or the chance of drop on some is ridiculous.
I’m sorry, but I seriously have no need for acquiring the book full of stealing and stealth scrolls that I do. It’d be nice that the time i put into earning justice and working the champ that i might eventually get something out of it.


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[Lex Darion]

Rather than upping PS droprate.

Why not introduce new endgame content drops for the tamers that like to tweak and minmax pets? (drops would only be possible for paid accounts)
Scrolls arent everything, but the drops could easily sell for a nice penny so it gives another way for people to make some gold.

- Rare consumables that can extract a powerscroll from a pet. (makes the trained skill drop down to GM, so it's a double edged sword)
- Rare consumables that can reset a pets training points and randomize its stats (as if you tamed the pet fresh).
- Rare consumables (very rare) that can increase the natural stat of str / int / hp of a spawned pet towards it's possible spawn max (perhaps limited to say 95% max).

I'd suspect that if Broadsword did consumables like these Id sadly think they'd add it to the origin store instead...

 

[Maker2014]

Rather than upping PS droprate.

Why not introduce new endgame content drops for the tamers that like to tweak and minmax pets? (drops would only be possible for paid accounts)
Scrolls arent everything, but the drops could easily sell for a nice penny so it gives another way for people to make some gold.

- Rare consumables that can extract a powerscroll from a pet. (makes the trained skill drop down to GM, so it's a double edged sword)
- Rare consumables that can reset a pets training points and randomize its stats (as if you tamed the pet fresh).
- Rare consumables (very rare) that can increase the natural stat of str / int / hp of a spawned pet towards it's possible spawn max (perhaps limited to say 95% max).

I'd suspect that if Broadsword did consumables like these Id sadly think they'd add it to the origin store instead...

Yep. Those are good ideas. The problem may be that they require major brain surgery to the game-code, and dev time. What th OP is asking is a very simple small increase in the PS number drops, and that is both easy to put in place and does not take any new code generation or Dev time.
What is the reason for not increasing the PS drop rate? Is there some logic behind the reason not to? It will not affect pet sales/pricing. It will affect the PS pricing a little bit. It will not affect PVP, it will augment it.
I vote YES increase the number of PS dropping from 6 to 8-10, and with Knight of Justice this will become 16-20.
I am not sure about Tram/Ilsh/Abyss spawns dropping PS etc. But the Fel spawns can take a little improvement.

 

[Lex Darion]

If PS drops go up, tamed pet prices will drop a lot.
We've seen changes like these in the source materials in EVE cause huge fluctuations in EVE Online.

Pets is what keeps powerscroll market expensive.
It's a huge goldsink in UO due to the demand for PS being high artificially by pet usage.

Now if the tamers dont spend as much gold on powerscrolls, we'll very likely see people shore up gold and spend it on other stuff.
Rare prices will go up.
Prices of untrained rare pets will go up.

Common untrained will most likely not see an increase.

This is basic macro/micro economics.

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

Trade of power scrolls is not a gold sink. The gold is trading hands. A gold sink is when the gold leaves the economy and does not go to another player (I.e. the raffle for the New Magincia House plots)

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Rather than upping PS droprate.

Why not introduce new endgame content drops for the tamers that like to tweak and minmax pets? (drops would only be possible for paid accounts)
Scrolls arent everything, but the drops could easily sell for a nice penny so it gives another way for people to make some gold.

- Rare consumables that can extract a powerscroll from a pet. (makes the trained skill drop down to GM, so it's a double edged sword)
- Rare consumables that can reset a pets training points and randomize its stats (as if you tamed the pet fresh).
- Rare consumables (very rare) that can increase the natural stat of str / int / hp of a spawned pet towards it's possible spawn max (perhaps limited to say 95% max).

I'd suspect that if Broadsword did consumables like these Id sadly think they'd add it to the origin store instead...

I would pay for those!!!

 

[railshot]

If PS drops go up, tamed pet prices will drop a lot.

I have no problems with that. Those prices are prices of powerscrolls, not pets. Since the revamp, looking for perfect stats lost much of it's meaning so non-rare pets are justifiably cheap.

We've seen changes like these in the source materials in EVE cause huge fluctuations in EVE Online.

I knew I've seen that avatar somewhere? PL?

Pets is what keeps powerscroll market expensive.
It's a huge goldsink in UO due to the demand for PS being high artificially by pet usage.

It's not a gold sink if the gold is going from player to player. But even if it was, all the goldsinks are useless while it's still possible to dupe gold in this game. Prices will keep going up regardless.

 

[Rhafiki]

I would suggest a way to convert PS into a pet training scroll. 2x of a PS could be converted into a pet training scroll of the same level(like 2 120s would be converted into a single 120 pet scroll). The pet scrolls can count as any 120 scroll for the purpose of pet training. This will tank some pet prices, but this will also help burn through a lot more of the 120s that just sit around. Probably increasing the prices of most 120s while bringing down the prices of some.
This could also instead of being a pet training scroll, just be a random reroll scroll. Could double click and it becomes a random scroll of the same level. This would give more chances for 120s of undesirable skills to be used for something.

 

[Macrophage]

PS prices are nowhere near what they used to be. You can get 12 110+ from a champion and countless 105s. It s not rare.

 

[Lex Darion]

I have no problems with that. Those prices are prices of powerscrolls, not pets. Since the revamp, looking for perfect stats lost much of it's meaning so non-rare pets are justifiably cheap.
I knew I've seen that avatar somewhere? PL?

It's not a gold sink if the gold is going from player to player. But even if it was, all the goldsinks are useless while it's still possible to dupe gold in this game. Prices will keep going up regardless.

Actually, finding perfect stat is still very much a thing.
Training a white CU with 510 HP, overcapped cold/energy resist and scrolling with 9x120 is such a waste compared to if you can find one at high HP and decent resist so they dont overcap.

And yes, PL.

It's still a goldsink.
People trade pets back and forth on vendors, it's 5% comission + another weekly gold fee.

I havent mapped the whole path of a goldcoin, but money in motion is a good thing.
It's when they sit stagnated and just accumulate that you'll see huge inflation. Powerscroll trades on vendors, highend sampire weapons sales etc, and the trade of gold is one method to get some gold out of rotation.

Eventually as gold dries up the prices will go down naturally. I think by now there is only a few obscure dupes still in play, Broadsword identifies and bans those dupers too on regular basis.

 

[Xris]

Since there are less overall players on UO then years past, how about just making a champ spawn slightly easier? Maybe 20%? This way solo players can farm spawns more, giving pvp players more incentive to check spawns more often. Leave other harder encounters for groups. Lots of people solo spawn anyway, I just don't like how much time it takes solo. PS prices wouldnt tank right away, and would fluctuate depending on how many people are spawning.

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[Caitlyn Snow]

Since there are less overall players on UO then years past, how about just making a champ spawn slightly easier? Maybe 20%? This way solo players can farm spawns more, giving pvp players more incentive to check spawns more often. Leave other harder encounters for groups. Lots of people solo spawn anyway, I just don't like how much time it takes solo. PS prices wouldnt tank right away, and would fluctuate depending on how many people are spawning.

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This is such a touchy topic for so many that I’ll leave my opinion at this. UO WAS a “MMO”RPG. It’s barely a shell of what it was. Unfortunately the content either is still developed for the thought of crazy large groups, or gets gimped to oblivion so people will focus on the new content (which Kyronix and Bleak have both admitted happens).

Either the content is scaled to what we have, or we will continue our slow but steady decline, all the while the argument about powerscrolls and champs shall forever pop on the forums (and stratics) until the fateful day comes.

Yes there are some areas with crazy large groups. Especially on Atl, Europa, and LS and GL. But the rest of us are scavenging with no hope of making it.

:shrug:



Just my take.

 

[Xris]

I agree, make content suitable for the player base now. IMO the best way to attract more players is to keep the paying players happy (yes I know this is an endless debate on how to keep players happy). I used to try and get rl friends to play, but now they hear me talk about the imbalance and they aren't really interested. Again IMO, we should focus on fixing things current players want, and work on xpacks in the background. I would play wow if I wanted new endgame content frequently, I just want a more balanced game.

This is such a touchy topic for so many that I’ll leave my opinion at this. UO WAS a “MMO”RPG. It’s barely a shell of what it was. Unfortunately the content either is still developed for the thought of crazy large groups, or gets gimped to oblivion so people will focus on the new content (which Kyronix and Bleak have both admitted happens).

Either the content is scaled to what we have, or we will continue our slow but steady decline, all the while the argument about powerscrolls and champs shall forever pop on the forums (and stratics) until the fateful day comes.

Yes there are some areas with crazy large groups. Especially on Atl, Europa, and LS and GL. But the rest of us are scavenging with no hope of making it.

:shrug:



Just my take.

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