@Mesanna, @Kyronix, @Bleak Is it about time for a little change?

[celticus]

Hate to bring this up again:
Pet upgrade white PS are needed in large amounts for the pet revamp.
Right now at spawns 6 - 7 drop and they are mostly useless for pets.
Can you increase the drop rate of PS in general or increase the pet specific PS drop a little bit at least?
What are mostly needed are : Wres, Tactics, Anat, Resist spells, Parry.
Most of what we get is 110's 115's : Ninjitsu, Swords, Fencing, Macing, etc..
Can you increase the 120's a little?
The numbers dropping increase from 6-7 to like 15-20?
No code change, just tweak the numbers a little?
I suspect more tamers and most PK/PVP players would agree?

 

[skett]

MAKE THEM DROP IN TRAM !!!

JK

 

[kaio]

Here is a better idea, revamp the pet revamp, so pets can't use any scrolls at all.

 

[Thrakkar]

Make them spawn in your bank box on April, 1st. They should look like ordinary ones, but if you double-click them, you get a message box, which says "April fools", then it vanishes. I bet people would vendor the crap out if that.

 

[celticus]

We need more serious, productive comments. If folks do not agree with changes, please say so. No sarcasm or requesting for things that would make the overall community look at the whole idea of change as a joke.
Can you guys vote for what is being suggested, and MAYBE then the Devs can look at this? The original question is asking for something doable, no recoding. Just tweaking the numbers. Some of the best and most instructive comments have come from PVP and PK folks, frankly. Would like to hear their opinions very much.

 

[Uvtha]

Hate to bring this up again:
Pet upgrade white PS are needed in large amounts for the pet revamp.
Right now at spawns 6 - 7 drop and they are mostly useless for pets.
Can you increase the drop rate of PS in general or increase the pet specific PS drop a little bit at least?
What are mostly needed are : Wres, Tactics, Anat, Resist spells, Parry.
Most of what we get is 110's 115's : Ninjitsu, Swords, Fencing, Macing, etc..
Can you increase the 120's a little?
The numbers dropping increase from 6-7 to like 15-20?
No code change, just tweak the numbers a little?
I suspect more tamers and most PK/PVP players would agree?

Pet only scrolls would be fine. Have 110's drop from spawn, and 120's from boss. 110's from tram boss.

 

[celticus]

Pet only scrolls would be fine. Have 110's drop from spawn, and 120's from boss. 110's from tram boss.

Do you mean pet-specific scrolls Uvtha? If so, that would mean more programming time and changing a lot of items in the code. Kind of a big job for a small Dev team.
All I am asking is just increase the rate of scrolls dropping at least somewhat, and if possible with simple changes the rate that the white PS that pets mostly need a little higher.
This may increase the reward part in the risk vs reward concern for both tamers, players and also for the PVP/PK teams, and make PS more available overall, and help the game a bit.
I hope to get a response from the PVP/PK folks outhere also..

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I've said since day 1 of this debate, the drop rate is very low for 120's. But they do pop up with enough frequency.
Combine this with very few players in the summer period.
Combine this with 90% of players doing roof only, as that is where the real money is, not so many do spawns.

Even if you took spawns to Trammel, it wouldn't make much difference - there would still be a lack of players doing spawns, due to roof etc, and then the Felucca players who are the only guys doing them, would also stop.

Having said all of this - doing spawns is a lot of fun as a game-style, it's up there with the most fun stuff I've done in this game.
Whilst I get your point, the game-style is too much fun, and worth doing over and over, it is not worth diluting spawns, one of the few working mechanisms in the game.

 

[Max Blackoak]

with the current system you get 6 powerscrolls to drop from a champ + 6 additional ones when you use protection the correct way (i.e. the protector is knight of justice and does not damage the champ, or heal others as to not get looting rights himself). I have never had problems getting the powerscrolls I needed. Sure, 120 resist is somewhat rarer than say 120 anatomy but I always had what I needed after a couple of champ spawns. I always kept the lesser powerscrolls and bound them until I had enough 15s to bind a 120 too. It's a slower process but it will still get you additional 120s, so why not.
I really don't see why the number of powerscrolls dropping should be increased. It's fine the way it is, especially beacause you can't loose when doing champ spawns: even if you didn't get that 120 you were actually looking for, you get 12 powerscrolls to either sell or keep, you get 300k+, you get mastery primers, some of which you can sell for a pretty penny if you don't wanna use them yourself and you get dungeon artifacts, SoTs and 105s for doing the spawn. You really can't loose. Over time you will either get the scroll you're looking for, or you will have made enough money to afford buying one.

 

[Syncros]

Power scrolls should just be removed period.
Players would be more able to compete fairly vs others and pets as well.
Pets should also be limited to the amount of 120 skill points as well just like players.

 

[Uvtha]

Do you mean pet-specific scrolls Uvtha? If so, that would mean more programming time and changing a lot of items in the code. Kind of a big job for a small Dev team.
All I am asking is just increase the rate of scrolls dropping at least somewhat, and if possible with simple changes the rate that the white PS that pets mostly need a little higher.
This may increase the reward part in the risk vs reward concern for both tamers, players and also for the PVP/PK teams, and make PS more available overall, and help the game a bit.
I hope to get a response from the PVP/PK folks outhere also..

It wouldn't take that much time. It's not a new system or anything. Just a power scroll that doesn't accept players as a target.

 

[kaio]

We need more serious, productive comments. If folks do not agree with changes, please say so. No sarcasm or requesting for things that would make the overall community look at the whole idea of change as a joke.
Can you guys vote for what is being suggested, and MAYBE then the Devs can look at this? The original question is asking for something doable, no recoding. Just tweaking the numbers. Some of the best and most instructive comments have come from PVP and PK folks, frankly. Would like to hear their opinions very much.

As i recall every major boss got buffed after the pet-revamp to match fully scrolled pets.
After that buff, adding scrolls to pets more or less became mandatory to compete in trammel-land, the pvp-tamer side got nerfed so hard that it was rendered useless.
Here is an example to prove what i mean.

pet A did 100 damage pr hit before pet revamp.
After pet revamp same pet scrolled do 120 damage pr hit.
Then they buffed all the major bosses.
So now the scrolled pet only does 100 damage.
So now we have buffed pets, and buffed bosses, witch evens out, so yes we are better off without the PS part on pets.
This is very simplified but you get the idea.

 

[celticus]

It wouldn't take that much time. It's not a new system or anything. Just a power scroll that doesn't accept players as a target.

That might work, and solve a lot of issues same time..Pet specific items / scrolls etc. There are other UO spinnoff games out there with such pet specific items or pet upgrade items..

 

[Lord Solor]

That might work, and solve a lot of issues same time..Pet specific items / scrolls etc. There are other UO spinnoff games out there with such pet specific items or pet upgrade items..

This is a ridiculous request and a ridiculous discussion. Nothing needs to change about scrolls. I came back a few months ago and was thrilled to find that fel champs were relevant again because the trammies needed scrolls for their pets.

Which scrolls are desirable is always changing and has everything to do with player demand. The reason ppl are flaming you is b/c ppl have been crying about not getting the exact scrolls they want from spawns since scrolls came out. Your idea isn’t new or particularly popular. Scrolls are fine, dev time can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Uvtha]

This is a ridiculous request and a ridiculous discussion. Nothing needs to change about scrolls. I came back a few months ago and was thrilled to find that fel champs were relevant again because the trammies needed scrolls for their pets.

Which scrolls are desirable is always changing and has everything to do with player demand. The reason ppl are flaming you is b/c ppl have been crying about not getting the exact scrolls they want from spawns since scrolls came out. Your idea isn’t new or particularly popular. Scrolls are fine, dev time can be better spent elsewhere.

If the scrolls come from fel spawns... who cares? Even if you doubled the number of scrolls demand would still be very high.

 

[MalagAste]

I'll say this... Prior to the Pet Revamp... if I EVER got lucky enough to get a 120 PS it was for something lame like Wrestling... no one wanted it.

After Pet Revamp now if I EVER get a 120 scroll it's for something like Macing... again that no one wants. But all those wrestling scrolls I'd really like to be getting now?.... GONE.

Do you think that's just a coincidence? I don't.

 

[celticus]

This is a ridiculous request and a ridiculous discussion. Nothing needs to change about scrolls. I came back a few months ago and was thrilled to find that fel champs were relevant again because the trammies needed scrolls for their pets.

Which scrolls are desirable is always changing and has everything to do with player demand. The reason ppl are flaming you is b/c ppl have been crying about not getting the exact scrolls they want from spawns since scrolls came out. Your idea isn’t new or particularly popular. Scrolls are fine, dev time can be better spent elsewhere.

Your opinion is appreciated, and it is your opinion. Yours is not the opinion of the most people, and you are not talking for the majority.
Welcome back to the game by the way..
Good idea to familiarize yourself with the new game updates and happenings, and also while you are doing that maybe look at the progression of the game for the long run a little bit. The "trammies" are not the problem, the PVP elite, PK elite, or any game-legal specific gameplay group of people is not the problem. There are other things. Find out for yourself what is. And be open and sincere about it. Before you call anything ridiculous that is posted here at good faith, and has logic behind it.
Oh and put your bifocals on to see a little better?
Peple here are not "flaming" me or anyone else. What game do you come from? WOW or? We do not flame in this forum : Its called debate, and presenting your LOGIC behind what you believe. We have differing opinions with others, and that is fine.
You start flaming here and you will be booted fairly quickly. So we dont do that or have any inclination of doing that.
As I said, welcome back to the game and the Stratics. New things to learn.

 

[Maker2014]

This is a ridiculous request and a ridiculous discussion. Nothing needs to change about scrolls. I came back a few months ago and was thrilled to find that fel champs were relevant again because the trammies needed scrolls for their pets.

Which scrolls are desirable is always changing and has everything to do with player demand. The reason ppl are flaming you is b/c ppl have been crying about not getting the exact scrolls they want from spawns since scrolls came out. Your idea isn’t new or particularly popular. Scrolls are fine, dev time can be better spent elsewhere.

LOLRDIE :
Do you even follow the logic behind some of the things posted in the forums? Or you simply post your personal opinions? Either way its just fine. By the way you use an interesting word: "flaming". Start doing that here and you will quickly discover a few things. You will be out so fast it will make your head spin. LOL. We don't do things like this here. Also the comment "ridiculous". Wow, you must think you are a UO expert, being in the game a few months?

 

[Picus of Napa]

This is indeed a stupid idea and is deserving of the flames.

 

[Mr. Mayhem]

I like turtles.

 

[celticus]

This is indeed a stupid idea and is deserving of the flames.

Any reasoning behind this one very smart comment? The original message mentioned some reasoning for increasing the number of scrolls that goes with the present-day state of the game. What is the reasoning for your comment? Why is the idea so stupid?

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

One thought, even if the 120 rate stays the same that’s fine. But maybe adding 105s and 110s at the Ilshenar spawns would be nice. Those are the staple of what I use for my pets anyways. Or adding 110s to what you receive from killing spawn. There are ways they can go about this that don’t diminish the current values of pets and scrolls, while still maintaining a balance not monopolized by one party of players.

 

[chester rockwell]

Just go to dang fel in a group and rock a spawn.....stop taking away the only carrot from fel besides a harry.

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

Just go to dang fel in a group and rock a spawn.....stop taking away the only carrot from fel besides a harry.

And if you’ve read any of the posts, we do spawns. Frequently. That’s not the issue. A lot fewer people are scared of Fel than you’d like to believe. We’re just complaining of the skewed return of our plunders. And most of us are willing to compromise. I agree that they should not do anything as drastic as double the drop count, or make all levels of PS available in Tram ruleset areas. I like the risk. There is an economy at stake.

Your complaining about people complaining about a system that was designed 14+ years ago is counter productive at the least.

 

[chester rockwell]

I skimmed the thread cuz it has been made multiple multiple times. I read, didn't see anything new, skimmed fast fast.

I read up there that someone said you only get 6 scrolls per champ....are you not using a protector?

 

[chester rockwell]

I have two accounts. I will run my pro down, pro my samp, and solo the spawn. Pow, just got 12 scrolls in a lil over 20 mins of "work".

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

I skimmed the thread cuz it has been made multiple multiple times. I read, didn't see anything new, skimmed fast fast.

I read up there that someone said you only get 6 scrolls per champ....are you not using a protector?

And I agree about the protector thing. Anyone serious about farming a champ will use a Sampire/protector combo. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time for your turnouts.

And yes, this particular topic appears a lot, and so many times have ridiculous requests popped up in these, no one takes them seriously anymore.

The fact is, pet specific items and more tamer based content will centralize a lot of things to a single template. Sampires and Tamers are the gotos for most people nowadays, because the content difficulty keeps increasing, while the population decreases, and this requires stronger Uber-templates that can put up with the disparity.

Also, this kind of addition is not at the top of the list for devs, as they are working on other projects and have devoted a lot of time towards tamers recently, I don’t see more changes coming anytime soon.

That being said, a few tweaks here and there would be welcome. But complete overhauls at this stage are a fools request as many of the proposed overhauls can upset the delicate “balance” of PVM and PVP players.

I agree there should be more Fel-based content. This is part of the huge argument of the PS market. Champion spawns are about the last thing left for that facet. So any suggestion of taking this away is a spit in the face.

 

[Picus at the office]

The drop rate has been fine for a decade. The last thing this game needs is another easy button which will be farmed for 2 months and then left destroyed by people like the OP who won't do the content after they get the reward. You didn't farm scrolls before, you won't after.

 

[Merus]

I’m with Picus on this one... there is what 19 spawns available... if each spawn gives 12 scrolls and takes on average 30 minutes to complete... than would mean that each shard has the capacity to produce over 10,000 (12 x 19 x 47 (48 - 1 for server down)) power scrolls per DAY. The issue is NOT lack of access to scrolls...

The content is there to be done.

 

[dukarlo]

Problem is players want instant gratification. Content in this game is just burned thru because 90 percent of it is put in safe zones that can be mastered after a few attempts at trial and error. So maybe 10 percent of the high end content is in consensual pvp areas. Having a 900 plus skill point tank pet in addition to a 720 plus skill point character should not be an achievement rewarded instantly. Fact is it is very possible to get scrolls on any shard.

Thing is people aren't willing to work with others in what is multi player game. Not everything in the game should be easy. The only thing in the game that has any challenge whatsoever anymore is champ spawns. Not because the spawns are difficult but because there is a chance of interaction with competing players.
With the reduction of the playerbase in recent years you probably have a better chance of not being raided than raided. Even on ATLANTIC.

Player interaction is the only thing that has kept champ spawns relevant 17 or so years later. Player interaction is the only thing that keeps hours weeks and months of dev work relevant period. The only alternative is grinding repetitively for low drop rates in Trammel. Navery and doom are perfect examples.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Combine this with 90% of players doing roof only, as that is where the real money is,

+1 There's your problem

 

[celticus]

The drop rate has been fine for a decade. The last thing this game needs is another easy button which will be farmed for 2 months and then left destroyed by people like the OP who won't do the content after they get the reward. You didn't farm scrolls before, you won't after.

How did you get this idea about the OP? LOL. I do the "content" every day. Mostly with protector. And end up getting some useful PS, and 95% time useless PS. PKed? Only once long time ago, lol. I don't mind it. Its the game as a progression that is of concern. Look at Kaitlyn Snow's posts, and other's posts.
Some ideas are presented here. Its ok to dislike them, but the point was to hear the reasons. By the way the gold sink theory is SUNK! Lol..Any other reasons? Keep the pet prices very high is the goal in the game etc..does that make sense? Or is it that since I paid 290 M for my fully 120 scrolled, and trained AI / Chiv Cusidhe, I don't want to see same Cu selling for less? The OP message is asking to see these ideas from a broader perspective, rather than few merchants perspectives, or special interests groups of one type or another. I don't think a slight increase in Fel PS drop will be an easy button at all, I think it will help both the PVP/PK folks, and the entire game, increase the use of the spawns by increasing the usefulness of the spawns, and decrease the frustration of getting 2-3 useless PS when hunting with team etc.
The idea of the spawns left destroyed after 2 months use : Can you elaborate a little bit?

 

[Picus of Napa]

I got the idea about the OP largely from the notion that had you spawned, often, for the last half decade you would have accepted the drop rate for what it was. I can't believe you would be asking for

What are mostly needed are : Wres, Tactics, Anat, Resist spells, Parry.
Most of what we get is 110's 115's : Ninjitsu, Swords, Fencing, Macing, etc..

if you had spawned for years on end.

We need wrestling to drop more than any other old scroll....uh huh.

 

[Caitlyn Snow]

My final thought on this matter, as I have resigned myself that this isn’t going anywhere in terms of discussion, is that anyone that says that the drop rates of specific skills are the same uniformly, have not done a champ.
Yes it is at the mercy of the RNG (3x over on the skill level and 20+ on the skill) but it is obvious that some skills drop much more frequently than others.

 

[Chrille]

Good luck Celticus, but in reality just do more spawns and you will end up with the scrolls youy need/ want. You get 6 unproteced and 12 with protection active from a single spawn. Ive never been lucky with the drops of magery Ive seen a total of 4 dropping in all my spawns, Ive got over 160 20s in storage, maybe the numbers match up but I just do more spwans to try to get what I need/ want to drop.

 

[celticus]

Good luck Celticus, but in reality just do more spawns and you will end up with the scrolls youy need/ want. You get 6 unproteced and 12 with protection active from a single spawn. Ive never been lucky with the drops of magery Ive seen a total of 4 dropping in all my spawns, Ive got over 160 20s in storage, maybe the numbers match up but I just do more spwans to try to get what I need/ want to drop.

Yep. I appreciate that. It is really what happens. But the idea of spending upwards or close to 100-200 M to scroll a pet somehow does not suit a lot of tamers in the game. I actually have gotten 3 120's one SW, and one Chiv, and one music also115 magery. Lots of useless ones. Other spawning pple have similar numbers. The others are really rare. But its ok. Will keep grinding, np. Its also fun with the PVP/PK and all. There eventually may be other ways to upgrade pets..some day lol.

 

[chester rockwell]

120 rasslin' scrolls were like 150k-300k......on atlantic.....before the publish. Only mage characters used them. You could have stockpiled them by the dozens. I know I had a crap ton in ps books cuz I was too lazy to sell for the piddly amount. You could have rocked spawns from dawn to dusk without anyone scouting. The option was there.

You could join one of the guilds that loves to just have warm bodies and can have 5+ (early early morning....primetime, lots more) people show up to defend at anytime of the day....and spawn your heart out.

You can scroll up the 10's/15's and make 20's....sell them, buy the 120 that you want. That's what I do.

The problem is you have thousands of tram-set tamers with 50000 pets apiece and they think every single pet NEEDS to be 120 in the main skills. The difference between a pet with 115 and 120 rassle is miniscule. If you are really worried about killing something faster....again....make a sampire.