A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Dock....

[Silent Singer]

... Mesanna showed up!


After finishing my Stratics post for Siege, I stopped by the Cats net toss to continue the slow pet training on a new shard. (And I've never got a one-tile soulforge, so that was a factor too).

Just as we start, Mesanna appears in GC and announces that she'd like to discuss the EM.

!RUT RO SHAGGY!

My first thought was are we about to go full Clops? Cause I'm getting the popcorn if so!

Now a little background so I don't unintentionally assume some expertise on Catskills:
- I haven't played here in 17 years,
- Last week I started casually training a toon that had been stranded here for years,
- IANAL, I only play one on Stratics

Apparently, Mesanna had promised at one of the various Meet and Greets that EMs who failed to properly post events / locations / times would be sacked. The EM for Catskills, EM Dranmar, had apparantly been gently reminded by Mesanna about this rule previously (at some point). But this past week one of his events did not occur at the appointed hour, and Mesanna was here to solicit feedback on the possible sacking of said EM Dranmar.

Well, it is not an overstatement to say Catskills lost its s**t.

The messages in GC scrolled by so fast you could catch maybe one in four. Eventually (thanks in very large part to the net tosser moving down the docks and drawing at least a few of the crowd away from the conflict) cooler heads prevailed and a more reasonable dialogue occurred. The Cats players (who definitely seemed locals, but who am I to say?) strongly supported Dranmar. Nails (apparantly present for the weekly net toss) supported the local opinion with several statements identifying that recent complaints against the EM derived from a small (and known) disgruntled faction, and were not representative of the shard.

The entire thing was interesting to witness. Things I learned (or reinforced my current beliefs):

1. Mesanna was clearly holding at least this EM to a standard she had promised. He had broken a rule (though in this case it was innocent enough, as I happened to be online during the event in question and it was a time-change snafu), and she was ready to meet out punishment if the server felt the infraction warranted it.

2. However, before taking action she was soliciting player feedback. It went south quickly, but the fact remains that she was making an effort, and even doing so after hours at a time she knew a large group of regulars would be online.

So as someone who is often critical of decisions made at her level, I think it should be noted that she put forth some real effort here;

That said, the entire concept of how the producer interacts with the player base REALLY needs consideration. I've argued for a true Community Liaison role on the part of Broadsword for a long time, (or at the very least, having someone else in that role), and the way in which this conversation unfolded did nothing to change my opinion.

3. The Cats players were very quick to defend their EM. Which was chaotic as heck, but also pretty cool. My understanding is that RP is big on Cats, and the crowd gave the impression that Dranmar is very supportive of that. So good for them!

4. However, once that train got rolling it was difficult for Mesanna to get a word in (see comment above) and GC got a little ugly for a second there. Strong feelings all around.

Based on my (admittedly limited) opinion, the crux of the matter still boils down to a GIANT division between players who want events for their shards and players who want EM item drops that wait out the event itself until the end boss. This I DID witness, as I rolled up on the end of the event (last 10 mins) and just fell in with the crowd. I assumed it was all RP (there was a lot more than I have seen before), but once a final boss spawned, gates opened up all around and piles of toons appeared (easily doubling the crowd that had been following the event).

The complaints to Mesanna during the day were (based on the comments in the discussion) from off-shard players who felt that the change in time was intentionally done to prevent them from showing up. Obviously some made it, because I saw the gates myself and also saw them recall away as soon as the boss died.

In the end it was a stark reminder of why I gave up on EM events on Legends over a year ago. The EMs are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. And after the Clops fiasco, everyone is assumed guilty until proven innocent over any complaint (take a look at the rares forum sometime, some great discussion about dupes on there...)

The thing that annoys me the most I think is that this post would never be allowed on the official UO forum, where this type of discussion really should occur between the ?liaison? and the players.

EDIT: Knew, not new. I'm an idiot.

 

[Spartan]

I'll be switched. I did NOT see that one coming at all. Thanks for the heads-up and the writeup.

As for RP, back in '98 when I started, Cats was noted as the heavy RP shard. Apparently it still is ... nice to know.

 

[Lex Darion]

Give EMs more free reigns. They don't need to be able to spawn items. Just be able to do monsters and rename the monsters.

Back in the day that was all we needed when we had EM / IGM support for our rp communities. We didn't need item drops to have fun

 

[Uriah Heep]

Nice write-up. I've grown quite neutral to the whole EM fiasco. Like the one we have now, he's great! But we've been saddled with a couple of real #$&*$*. as well.

Mesanna knows who these people are, they're gypsies, from shard to shard lol. Good to know Dranmar isn't part of the crew. And if the sudden time change let the Cats players have the advantage, good on them! They're the ones who build the shard, they should be the ones who reap the rewards, not the traveling hordes.

 

[Faeryl]

"The complaints to Mesanna during the day were (based on the comments in the discussion) from off-shard players who felt that the change in time was intentionally done to prevent them from showing up."

Honestly that's just illogical paranoia on their parts. If they're referring to Monday's event, it was in fact a simple mistake since we changed to DST. And if they had shown up at the initially scheduled time... they'd have seen the giant green globe staying it was meant to be an hour later with an apology.

Regardless, this issue was apparently a lack of posting on time on their event calendar. Which I didn't really even know existed. But oddly when I looked there... hey, both events were up. And again, if anyone complaining about the time change had gone to the event when initially scheduled, they'd have seen the time update. I don't know how you can be prevented from showing up to an event that's an hour later than planned...

As for this event calendar... who does this really serve aside from the cross sharders who don't care about the specific shards or their stories? They only want the drops, and that just makes it easier for them to schedule where to be and when. In my opinion it's nothing but a detriment to the shards, as the cross sharders sit and complain and demand the boss be popped and basically make attempts to ruin the events for those of us actually interested in the stories.

As a parting remark. Yes, we made it loud and clear. We who actually play on Catskills adore EM Dramnar. He's a boon to the rp community and a great guy, and I know that I, along with many others, would be outraged if we were to lose him due to the greed and agendas of the cross sharders.

 

[Parnoc]

Just another damning of the way things are ran now and have been for a long time.
Shard residents very happy with their beloved EM,
Offshard greedy rude cheating players only there for the multimillion gold EM Event drops complaining and getting their way.
Why are these people pampered and coddled and the folks who live on the shard and support it every day given the shaft?

 

[Uriah Heep]

I don't know how you can be prevented from showing up to an event that's an hour later than planned...

Funniest thing I've read all day

Offshard greedy rude cheating players only there for the multimillion gold EM Event drops complaining and getting their way.
Why are these people pampered and coddled and the folks who live on the shard and support it every day given the shaft?

Good question

 

[MalagAste]

Just another damning of the way things are ran now and have been for a long time.
Shard residents very happy with their beloved EM,
Offshard greedy rude cheating players only there for the multimillion gold EM Event drops complaining and getting their way.
Why are these people pampered and coddled and the folks who live on the shard and support it every day given the shaft?

I've wondered that for a LONG time... I've asked about it, I've complained about it... as it is now... I find it nearly impossible to follow the story. With all the spamming and smack talking going on and outrageous demands etc... I just go through the motions anymore and feel totally clueless as to what's going on... the GL's EM Events were always the high point of my week and had been one of the main reasons why I haven't quit UO... It was wonderful RP fun. But anymore it's blah, blah can't figure out what's going on gate opens with nearly no explanation... mobs spawn kill, kill, kill,... gate somewhere else, kill, kill, kill, some more... gate to the next area and if we aren't split kill again and go back to base or split crash 10x due to too many people being gated in with all their multiboxed clients try to kill something that you can't get anywhere near do to spammed AoE specials being overloaded on the boss just to keep it alive for longer than .2 seconds... drop/no drop and then it just either ends or we get gated back to base again... but still have zero clue what happened.

It's hard to follow what the EMs are doing when there are a few there that make vulgar comments all the time that are just childish... Sadly they just keep spamming vulgarities or seriously rude comments... usually of some sexual nature... that has nothing to do with what's going on... They are constantly casting summons even when it's most obviously just a talking part and there isn't even anything there to kill.. and its always right on top of the EM.

I considered applying to be an EM once or twice but the level of childish behavior and such is something I could never tolerate. Suppose they exact some revenge by killing people a lot with seriously nasty spawn but meh... I think it's almost worse than a daycare provider or teacher having to put up with a bunch of ADHD kids on a sugar rush.

 

[Planters]

My thing with the em drops is this... the shard has a story line they are following, and they work through all the stuff to make it happen. Why not make the EM event items shard bound? I would love to see that happen. Some events aren’t a huge story line and those ones I wouldn’t mind seeing the event drops get shipped to Atlantic but the story line ones I feel should be locked to the shard that housed the event. Yes some of the underpopulated shards would have amazing items and the players there won’t pay 100+mil for the item but they would be kept at home. That’s one of the things I LOVE about siege. Items received there and found there stay there. Yes because you can’t transfer to and from but if they kept them there I feel that some of the shards would be come more populated because some EMs are amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Planters]

And when are the net tosses? I am looking for one when I get to play. Not much this week since I am working 15+ hours a day right now. Sleep, eat, poop and work that’s it for this time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Judas D'arc]

This is a pretty accurate summary of what occurred and I find myself in agreement with everything said above. I'd only add that:

1) This didn't even turn out to be a drop event.

2) This is actually the second such occurrence in a matter of months. It happened previously in November 2017, and a number of Catskills players e-mailed Mesanna in defense of Dramnar. And apparently there's an even longer history before that which has nothing to do with Catskills or his performance as an EM.

3) While I understand Mesanna's point that EMs should be using the uo.com calendar, Dramnar seems to have no trouble attracting an audience to his events. I'm certain that the people complaining know very well when his events are, and their complaints were completely disingenuous, attempting to get him removed on a technicality.

I have no doubt that this will happen again and again and again until they get their way. While I have no problem with people collecting rares or trying to get drops (I've enjoyed many of the ones I've gotten), the dominance of this element of the player base has made the entire situation incredibly toxic for everyone else. First and foremost, the EM program should be about story-telling and live events, and UO has a nice, long history of providing such content without drops being the focus. EM Dramnar clearly spends hours and hours every month on his events, they often last 2+ hours and involve mazes, puzzles, and other elaborate setups that must take hours to implement and demonstrate that Broadsword is getting their money's worth from him.

In what world, is this considered subpar, and the EMs who crank out 45 minute drop dispensary events lauded as the ideal?

 

[Judas D'arc]

And when are the net tosses? I am looking for one when I get to play. Not much this week since I am working 15+ hours a day right now. Sleep, eat, poop and work that’s it for this time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bytor of K^S hosts these every Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. Eastern Time on the Trammel New Magincia docks. They usually last for about 45 minutes to an hour and attract a good crowd. You should definitely check it out sometime, Bytor's done a great job at keeping it going for years now.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I (as Lann, who doesn’t do EM events) was also there for the net toss when Mesanna showed up - what a surprise - but there has to be a better way to communicate than General Chat - chaos! Doesn’t she have the super power to hit mute chat while she talks? She did spawn a Navery and a Scalis for us before leaving

 

[Lord Bytor]

And when are the net tosses? I am looking for one when I get to play. Not much this week since I am working 15+ hours a day right now. Sleep, eat, poop and work that’s it for this time

I have been hosting the Net Toss @ 7:30pm est on the Magincia Docks in Tram on Catskills. We are into our 3rd yr straight now. I summon Scalis 3 separate times and give everyone a few mins in between to loot and drop off their loot at the bank or their homes before I start tossing the next nets

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I have been hosting the Net Toss @ 7:30pm est on the Magincia Docks in Tram on Catskills. We are into our 3rd yr straight now. I summon Scalis 3 separate times and give everyone a few mins in between to loot and drop off their loot at the bank or their homes before I start tossing the next nets

It’s getting so popular now that a Scalis goes down in about 5 minutes - usually almost as many as the Atlantic net toss now, except Bytor (aka Keenbadger) waits longer between nets

 

[Drakelord]

I like coming to Shard events. The story lines and role play are mainly what brings me. And I agree that the drops need to be Shard bound. Any drops I get I normal try to sell on that shard, why? To shop there, (Playing on Sonoma it's hard to get items for imbuing and the larger shards have what I am looking for) and keep insurances on my gear. Would many players stop coming to events if the drops were Shard bounded? I believe so. I would still be there, for the storyline and the role play.

If drops were Shard bound they would be forced to keep them on that shard, fewer players coming to events. I remember when they first started doing the promotion events. I was asked so many times for my Boots that I posted on Facebook that they were NOT for sale. Later they came out with the Shard bound Lanterns and the uproar that evening there was funny. One lady was so upset that she could not take her lantern home to her home shard. Today when the EM holds promotions you do not see the heavy traffic like before I like that. So I say make all the Drops Shard bound. I would just sell any I have at a far lower price on that shard.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

We didn't need item drops to have fun

Exactly.

 

[Lex Darion]

You know. If they really want to make items drop from EM events.
Make them character-bound or possible to only be placed in houses owned by that player.

This means more stuff can be given out, and increase participation in events for people who actually want the item for themselves. Not just to peddle it on the market.

Not saying all items should be this, but a lot of items is unattainable by people due to so many running multiple accounts at the same time.

 

[MalagAste]

I like coming to Shard events. The story lines and role play are mainly what brings me. And I agree that the drops need to be Shard bound. Any drops I get I normal try to sell on that shard, why? To shop there, (Playing on Sonoma it's hard to get items for imbuing and the larger shards have what I am looking for) and keep insurances on my gear. Would many players stop coming to events if the drops were Shard bounded? I believe so. I would still be there, for the storyline and the role play.

If drops were Shard bound they would be forced to keep them on that shard, fewer players coming to events. I remember when they first started doing the promotion events. I was asked so many times for my Boots that I posted on Facebook that they were NOT for sale. Later they came out with the Shard bound Lanterns and the uproar that evening there was funny. One lady was so upset that she could not take her lantern home to her home shard. Today when the EM holds promotions you do not see the heavy traffic like before I like that. So I say make all the Drops Shard bound. I would just sell any I have at a far lower price on that shard.

I'd prefer them to be shard bound for stories but other things like earning your participation and "everyone" drops being the exception.

 

[Drakelord]

I'd prefer them to be shard bound for stories but other things like earning your participation and "everyone" drops being the exception.

I go to the GL events a lot, so that character has received four promotions items, they blessed for that character. And are Shard bound. Most that char can wear, but there one piece that will sit in her bank box forever. Being a mage/tamer she cannot wear it besides the resist totally sucks, it would screw up her 100% LRC

 

[Silent Singer]

You can add mage armor by using the NPC and you can imbue it for LRC.

 

[Planters]

I have been hosting the Net Toss @ 7:30pm est on the Magincia Docks in Tram on Catskills. We are into our 3rd yr straight now. I summon Scalis 3 separate times and give everyone a few mins in between to loot and drop off their loot at the bank or their homes before I start tossing the next nets

I will have to start doing this when I go back in day shift


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drakelord]

You can add mage armor by using the NPC and you can imbue it for LRC.

Did I say I play on Sonoma? My imbuer is there, not on GL, besides that a sor's suit she is wearing so cannot break up the suit just for one piece I cannot wear.

 

[Silent Singer]

Did I say I play on Sonoma? My imbuer is there, not on GL, besides that a sor's suit she is wearing so cannot break up the suit just for one piece I cannot wear.

None of that information was provided. You had a problem. I had a solution. I'll be certain not to make the mistake again.

 

[Riyana]

EM Dramnar is an excellent EM and any shard would be lucky to have him.

I've had great EMs and I've had poor ones on my main shards, and I would FAR rather have a quality EM who focuses on story and interaction but who makes the occasional scheduling mistake than a poor EM.

While I recognize that Mesanna pledged to fire EMs who didn't keep up the calendar (which, in itself, is odd), the recent event that sparked this uproar was an honest time change mistake. There were mentions of other, similar complaints. However, I have attended his events regularly and never had a problem that was not my own doing. It is also my understanding that he is not the only EM who has occasional scheduling issues anyway.

A hard line stance on absolute accuracy on the schedule regardless of real life circumstances is a poor metric for EM performance.

There are EMs who run events that are 30-45 minutes, just a bland race to the boss.

There are EMs who run things like pet battles, net tosses, treasure hunts, fishing contests, cow tipping contests, etc. as their mainstays--events that players can and should run ourselves--utterly wasting the special abilities that makes EM content above what players can do.

There are EMs whose entire approach to EMing seems to be to create themed or valuable drop items with little respect or regard for the community.

Additionally, if public inquisition is going to be how EM complaints are handled, then they ALL need equal review.

As I suggested in game, since UO now has an official forum that is linked to game accounts, using that to create a forum that people could submit feedback that could not be seen publicly, but that the developers could read with certainty of the identities of the submitters, would keep at least some of the nonsense down. I don't know about their software but I know I could make one in less than ten minutes here. I have no doubt that certain people can and will take the time to misleadingly complain from multiple emails. I've seen it done here on Stratics.

The issue with EM Dramnar is frankly absurd. He is a producer of high quality, detailed, and well-thought live content, and Mesanna expressed willingness to fire him over a schedule mistake he made due to a time change. Anyone who was there saw how firmly the actual residents of Catskills rallied behind him.

So what is the priority here? Strict and flawless adherence to a scheduling medium (which again, multiple EMs fall short of), or quality content and shard community?

I also have zero doubt that his biggest detractors have zero stake in the shard or the shard community and are only interested in drops. EM Dramnar's events are played out as actual stories with meaningful content and consequences based on player actions. They are not quick and dirty drop dispensers like so many events are anymore.

Maybe the question we really should be asking is: what exactly is the purpose of the EM program?

The UO.com Live Events article states:



As a whole, is the program succeeding in this?

Personally, I would say no. Because of the way it is structured and operated, it has had the exact opposite of bringing community together. It has built enmity and grudges between people who otherwise might never have even crossed paths, or at least never had any reason to be at odds with one another.

Note that there is not one single word in the UO.com Live Events article about drops or rewards, which is the crux of most of the division. It does, however, specifically mention shard community right in the opening paragraph, which is what is being systematically left behind and even damaged.

In my opinion, the entire EM program is structurally backwards and broken. If the current EM list on uo.com is correct, we have a single PEC for all shards and one or two EMs for each shard save a couple.

We have shard communities consistently complaining that their EM events are overrun with cross sharders and multiboxers who cause the events to be almost unplayable and immediately haul any reward to Atlantic for gold or cash sale. We keep hearing about shard residents giving up on their own shard events in frustration. We have ONE person assigned to support ALL the shard communities' events and efforts.

Why do we have EMs assigned to every shard if not to serve the shard communities? Why is only one person serving the shard communities while the EMs increasingly serve primarily a small group of highly mobile collectors and sellers?

There are two main groups of people interested in shard events: content people and drop people, and they are at such severe odds that it is damaging the game.

So separate the content from the drops.

Instead of having every shard EM have to work in a drop to their event and stave off the hordes of people who don't care about the content, have the shard EMs be more like EM/PEC hybrids, allowed and encouraged more interacting with their shard communities. None of their events would have drops as we know them now, though ideally they could each have one clicky every month or two for the memento/participation crowd.

In the meantime, have a couple of "cross shard" mobile EMs who go shard to shard at pre-announced times with the big boss battle bonanza that some people love, and that still satisfies the rares niche with drops.

This more accurately reflects the actual behavior of both content and drop people. It would be less immediate oversight for Mesanna since only a couple EMs would have any influence or power with regards to special drops, and should make both the content people and the drop people happy. You could go to one, or both, or neither, but the content and drop people would not be shoved together competing for the same limited resources with wildly different goals.

Everyone's a winner, and maybe then these sorts of specious complaints would dry up, or at least be concentrated in a smaller and therefore more easily manageable group that was specific to the sorts of players actually complaining the most. I enjoy well-crafted EM events, and I like getting a drop as much as the next person, but I'd rather see the program shut down than continue to be a divisive mess.

EM Dramnar is fine. The program is not.

 

[Fridgster]

Kind of been holding my tongue here but I've really never been good at that...

If my boss called me out in public about my performance based on complaints with little merit I would have told my boss where to go and given him/her a map of how to get there....

 

[GarthGrey]

Did I say I play on Sonoma? My imbuer is there, not on GL, besides that a sor's suit she is wearing so cannot break up the suit just for one piece I cannot wear.

View attachment 78845

You're being disingenuous. You play multiple shards, and do transfers to sell items you've gotten through EM events, and you do it often. Please stop acting like you're some preserver of lost UO history, no offense

 

[Drakelord]

You're being disingenuous. You play multiple shards, and do transfers to sell items you've gotten through EM events, and you do it often. Please stop acting like you're some preserver of lost UO history, no offense

none taken, Yes I do play multi shards, when we first started we had houses on all the USA shards, before the one house rule. Today we have homes on Sonoma and Siege the only two shards with houses. As for the "Preserver of UO History" remark, I feel that we are all that in some matter or way. Now for the transfers, yes I do transfer off that shard items I buy for Sonoma, mostly imbuing stuff or hard to get rewards, stuff I cannot buy etc.. But for any drops, I normally try to sell them (unless I like it, or its a Sonoma Drop) I rather sell it on that shard, as I said I love shopping on larger shards. Went shopping this morning on LA, nice bargains good load of imbuing items. be a few weeks before I try to ship anything home there as I am still in the shopping mood there and got gold to spend there.

Been shopping on PAC now, buying Ancient SOSs to bring home since they want 2mil for white nets but only 850k for SOS and I have a 120 fisher on Sonoma. I will donate said nets to the EM Net tossing on Sonoma when I get the SOSs home and fish up the nets.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

what exactly is the purpose of the EM program?

Apparently, the EM program is designed SOLELY to give the "rares collectors" new items to sell on a regular basis. The days of it being about a story arc, residents of a shard banding together to fight a common enemy,or any sort of comradeship, are, SADLY, long gone.

And yes, IN MY OPINION, there IS the perception/reality? (without going into specifics) that dishonesty and rule violations DO STILL occur within the EM program.

I feel the time, effort, and money spent on the EM/daily rare events could be MUCH better spent elsewhere.

 

[Riyana]

Apparently, the EM program is designed SOLELY to give the "rares collectors" new items to sell on a regular basis. The days of it being about a story arc, residents of a shard banding together to fight a common enemy,or any sort of comradeship, are, SADLY, long gone.

I agree that this is its current practical function because of how it has been allowed to be twisted and dominated by the emphasis on the rewards.

It doesn't HAVE to be that way, though. Mesanna clearly doesn't want to rock that boat as she has steadfastly maintained that drops will not be shard bound, but that doesn't mean there isn't a kernel of something good in the program if they'd just rethink who is doing what, why, and rearrange accordingly. The rares community and the shard communities could both be served well, but the current status quo is doing more harm than good.

 

[Uriah Heep]

At one time I suggested, and got shot down quick, that EM events be scheduled to all run concurrently. Make the multiboxers pick one. lol. Instead of clogging up all the shards EM events, they would have to split up and settle for one.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

At one time I suggested, and got shot down quick, that EM events be scheduled to all run concurrently. Make the multiboxers pick one. lol. Instead of clogging up all the shards EM events, they would have to split up and settle for one.

Great idea that makes a lot of sense. No wonder it got shot down! @Mesanna

 

[Archnight]

EM Dramnar is an excellent EM and any shard would be lucky to have him.

I've had great EMs and I've had poor ones on my main shards, and I would FAR rather have a quality EM who focuses on story and interaction but who makes the occasional scheduling mistake than a poor EM.

While I recognize that Mesanna pledged to fire EMs who didn't keep up the calendar (which, in itself, is odd), the recent event that sparked this uproar was an honest time change mistake. There were mentions of other, similar complaints. However, I have attended his events regularly and never had a problem that was not my own doing. It is also my understanding that he is not the only EM who has occasional scheduling issues anyway.

A hard line stance on absolute accuracy on the schedule regardless of real life circumstances is a poor metric for EM performance.

There are EMs who run events that are 30-45 minutes, just a bland race to the boss.

There are EMs who run things like pet battles, net tosses, treasure hunts, fishing contests, cow tipping contests, etc. as their mainstays--events that players can and should run ourselves--utterly wasting the special abilities that makes EM content above what players can do.

There are EMs whose entire approach to EMing seems to be to create themed or valuable drop items with little respect or regard for the community.

Additionally, if public inquisition is going to be how EM complaints are handled, then they ALL need equal review.

As I suggested in game, since UO now has an official forum that is linked to game accounts, using that to create a forum that people could submit feedback that could not be seen publicly, but that the developers could read with certainty of the identities of the submitters, would keep at least some of the nonsense down. I don't know about their software but I know I could make one in less than ten minutes here. I have no doubt that certain people can and will take the time to misleadingly complain from multiple emails. I've seen it done here on Stratics.

The issue with EM Dramnar is frankly absurd. He is a producer of high quality, detailed, and well-thought live content, and Mesanna expressed willingness to fire him over a schedule mistake he made due to a time change. Anyone who was there saw how firmly the actual residents of Catskills rallied behind him.

So what is the priority here? Strict and flawless adherence to a scheduling medium (which again, multiple EMs fall short of), or quality content and shard community?

I also have zero doubt that his biggest detractors have zero stake in the shard or the shard community and are only interested in drops. EM Dramnar's events are played out as actual stories with meaningful content and consequences based on player actions. They are not quick and dirty drop dispensers like so many events are anymore.

Maybe the question we really should be asking is: what exactly is the purpose of the EM program?

The UO.com Live Events article states:

View attachment 78942

As a whole, is the program succeeding in this?

Personally, I would say no. Because of the way it is structured and operated, it has had the exact opposite of bringing community together. It has built enmity and grudges between people who otherwise might never have even crossed paths, or at least never had any reason to be at odds with one another.

Note that there is not one single word in the UO.com Live Events article about drops or rewards, which is the crux of most of the division. It does, however, specifically mention shard community right in the opening paragraph, which is what is being systematically left behind and even damaged.

In my opinion, the entire EM program is structurally backwards and broken. If the current EM list on uo.com is correct, we have a single PEC for all shards and one or two EMs for each shard save a couple.

We have shard communities consistently complaining that their EM events are overrun with cross sharders and multiboxers who cause the events to be almost unplayable and immediately haul any reward to Atlantic for gold or cash sale. We keep hearing about shard residents giving up on their own shard events in frustration. We have ONE person assigned to support ALL the shard communities' events and efforts.

Why do we have EMs assigned to every shard if not to serve the shard communities? Why is only one person serving the shard communities while the EMs increasingly serve primarily a small group of highly mobile collectors and sellers?

There are two main groups of people interested in shard events: content people and drop people, and they are at such severe odds that it is damaging the game.

So separate the content from the drops.

Instead of having every shard EM have to work in a drop to their event and stave off the hordes of people who don't care about the content, have the shard EMs be more like EM/PEC hybrids, allowed and encouraged more interacting with their shard communities. None of their events would have drops as we know them now, though ideally they could each have one clicky every month or two for the memento/participation crowd.

In the meantime, have a couple of "cross shard" mobile EMs who go shard to shard at pre-announced times with the big boss battle bonanza that some people love, and that still satisfies the rares niche with drops.

This more accurately reflects the actual behavior of both content and drop people. It would be less immediate oversight for Mesanna since only a couple EMs would have any influence or power with regards to special drops, and should make both the content people and the drop people happy. You could go to one, or both, or neither, but the content and drop people would not be shoved together competing for the same limited resources with wildly different goals.

Everyone's a winner, and maybe then these sorts of specious complaints would dry up, or at least be concentrated in a smaller and therefore more easily manageable group that was specific to the sorts of players actually complaining the most. I enjoy well-crafted EM events, and I like getting a drop as much as the next person, but I'd rather see the program shut down than continue to be a divisive mess.

EM Dramnar is fine. The program is not.

Great write-up and good points, the case with EM Dramnar however could also be seen as a very good employee that`s often late for work... as a company if he keeps being late should they still keep him when all other employees are almost never late while doing their job? And maybe they've already had a talk with him about it and it was done on purpose to avoid *certain* individuals from getting a drop... wouldn't that be corrupt if it was the case?? Points to this rare The Christmas Spirit, Vintage 97 - Stratics Community Wiki | Stratics Community Forums as a possible example. Now I don't want this to be seen as an accusation since it's nonfactual... i'm only throwing another possible angle to this whole situation

Personally I would rather they split the team in half, one part would work on normal events with quality drops on all shards while the others would work on global events with story arcs that everyone could enjoy. This to me would be a win-win scenario as everyone would benefit from the EM's and it's program

 

[Pawain]

Personally, I would say no. Because of the way it is structured and operated, it has had the exact opposite of bringing community together. It has built enmity and grudges between people who otherwise might never have even crossed paths, or at least never had any reason to be at odds with one another.

When she threatened to fire one at the Meet and Great, that was ours. There is a divide on LS. Some hate the EM some love the EM. We have had few EM events this year. But the EM does put up gates and deco for players events.

When the EM does a T Hunt event or Scalis. You hear players in chat complaining that they want drops. They should use a clicky that gives the drop for 30 mins after the event. Then the market would have more drops and they would not be worth so much that they cause greed.

 

[Faeryl]

At one time I suggested, and got shot down quick, that EM events be scheduled to all run concurrently. Make the multiboxers pick one. lol. Instead of clogging up all the shards EM events, they would have to split up and settle for one.

The problem with that is

1. Not all the events will run the same length. This means that people could still hit more than one if they know which tend to run longer or shorter.
2. The EMs run events around their personal schedules. It would be a nightmare to try and force them all to run events at the same time considering differences in time zones, work schedules, appointments, and family affairs.

 

[Riyana]

Great write-up and good points, the case with EM Dramnar however could also be seen as a very good employee that`s often late for work... as a company if he keeps being late should they still keep him when all other employees are almost never late while doing their job?

I already addressed that. Other EMs have scheduling issues. Other EMs have quality issues, which is even worse.

And maybe they've already had a talk with him about it and it was done on purpose to avoid *certain* individuals from getting a drop... wouldn't that be corrupt if it was the case??

Except that is not true, and you are insinuating accusation for a misleading and frankly bad faith argument.

Points to this rare The Christmas Spirit, Vintage 97 - Stratics Community Wiki | Stratics Community Forums as a possible example.

You have absolutely NOTHING to indicate ANY schedule change or ANY action of any kind was made to prevent anyone from getting a drop. I made it to that event and so did plenty of others. The word got out.

Now I don't want this to be seen as an accusation since it's nonfactual... i'm only throwing another possible angle to this whole situation

Exactly. But you are making an accusation, and it is indeed, in your own words, nonfactual. You have no point, just a devil's advocate based on, by your own admission, nothing. That isn't throwing another possible angle on a situation--it's throwing gas on a fire for no reason.

 

[Archnight]

Exactly. But you are making an accusation, and it is indeed, in your own words, nonfactual. You have no point, just a devil's advocate based on, by your own admission, nothing. That isn't throwing another possible angle on a situation--it's throwing gas on a fire for no reason

So Mesanna showed up just for fun? wanted to fish on Catskills while we both know she has better and more important things to do than bring up a situation regarding an EM?? Obviously the complaints she must have received warrant more than a scheduling issue and hence my post...

 

[Riyana]

So Mesanna showed up just for fun? wanted to fish on Catskills while we both know she has better and more important things to do than bring up a situation regarding an EM?? Obviously the complaints she must have received warrant more than a scheduling issue and hence my post...

Or a small handful of people are making themselves appear like more than they are and nitpicking one small point because they are actually angry about another.

 

[Cupid]

I am a late bloomer and did not start doing events until about 2.5 years ago, now that is all I do, I have one toon for this on each of the North American and two European shards, I love it. As I was never a guild person due to rl stuff this is as close as I have ever come to group play and I follow the story lines, I fight the fights and hell I only get 1-3 drops a month and I have given quite a few away and sold hardly any unless I disliked them, if they were to make drops shard bound so the few I like I can't get back home, well that would be it for me anyway, hell most shards couldn't kill the bosses themselves anyway. My beef is with the multi boxers which should be ending soon as Mesanna promised with EJ, they are the problem.

 

[Uriah Heep]

My beef is with the multi boxers which should be ending soon as Mesanna promised with EJ, they are the problem.

We shall see what we shall see

 

[Judas D'arc]

Great write-up and good points, the case with EM Dramnar however could also be seen as a very good employee that`s often late for work... as a company if he keeps being late should they still keep him when all other employees are almost never late while doing their job? And maybe they've already had a talk with him about it and it was done on purpose to avoid *certain* individuals from getting a drop... wouldn't that be corrupt if it was the case?? Points to this rare The Christmas Spirit, Vintage 97 - Stratics Community Wiki | Stratics Community Forums as a possible example. Now I don't want this to be seen as an accusation since it's nonfactual... i'm only throwing another possible angle to this whole situation

Personally I would rather they split the team in half, one part would work on normal events with quality drops on all shards while the others would work on global events with story arcs that everyone could enjoy. This to me would be a win-win scenario as everyone would benefit from the EM's and it's program

I don't think this is a good analogy because EM Dramnar is not habitually late with events. A few have been moved around because of a real life issues, and there was the recent event that was delayed an hour (with notice) because of a Daylight Savings Time misunderstanding, but he's hardly the only EM that's missed or changed an event. I mean, I could easily argue, "the case of EM Dramnar could also be seen as a very good employee who spends hours on his events, provides his primary audience with hours of entertainment, and gives Broadsword their money's worth, so shouldn't Broadsword fire all the EM's who don't live up to that standard and get paid the same amount for less work and 45 minute drop dispensary events?"

I'm really not sure what your point is about the Christmas Spirit, Vintage 97 drop event. I don't recall anything about that event since I missed it, but I don't see anything in that link that would imply that there was an issue there. Also, I think it would be very hard to ensure that certain individuals aren't there to get a drop, UO is a pretty small community and word travels fast.

I do agree with your suggestions about finding some way to split the story-based, shard content from the rares/drops content, since it causes a lot of friction and problems.

Oh, as for Mesanna investigating the complaint, her stated reason was that she can't in good conscience ignore any complaints about an EM. But I don't think that necessarily means she believes the complaints or that the complaints were true. In fact, she also mentioned how much she likes Dramnar. I also think it's been demonstrated that the complaints were disingenuous because I doubt the people complaining are ignorant of the existence of the Catskills Stratics Forum or the NPC Town Criers, where the times and dates of Dramnar's events are easily available. They're playing technicality games because they want the EM program to be reshaped for their convenience and play styles.

 

[Olcher]

As I witnessed the entirety of this play out I'm going to voice my opinion on this matter, and, based on the previous posts in this thread I'm sure it won't be a very popular one but you need to understand that it's fact.

Mesanna has explained numerous times that EMs are REQUIRED as a PART OF THEIR JOB to post their events to the UO.com Event Calendar. She said at the last Atlantic Dev M&G that she will fire EMs that do not post on the calendar as players were complaining the Lake Superior EM was not posting their events on the calendar. While I can't say for sure why this is a requirement I believe it is a good thing. As a player of several shards its an excellent resource to see everything for the upcoming month. Why bother having events if your players don't know when they are? I do also think it provides some sort of clarity for the EM program. We sure don't need any more corruption in the program after the Clops fiasco.

I personally checked the UO.com event calendar twice last Monday. Once was around this time of this post (noon-ish) during my lunch break and the second one was when I got home from work around 5:30 CST. Neither times was the Catskills event on the calendar. The only reason I know that the event was happening was that I was ICQ'd and was told by a fellow Catskills player. This player did not know there was an event that night either until after the event had began. I can admit that it was a bit frustrating that the event was not posted on the calendar a few hours before it starting and my evening was slightly inconvenienced and interrupted.

As a recap: this whole situation has nothing to do with any cross-sharder elitism, item drops, the event being postponed an hour, how good/bad Dramnar is as an EM or any other nonsense. It's literally a case of the EM, whether a mistake or not, did not do their job and someone called Dramnar out on it.

That all being said, I will echo several other posts in this thread and say that I do believe EM Dramnar is an excellent EM, perhaps one of the best, and I'm glad he's not being fired. As a matter of fact I look forward to attending his event tonight

As an aside, this whole 'home shard' elitism has to go. The 'home shard players' that echo this attitude are the ones that have some of the most toxic, deconstruction and cancerous attitudes I've ever seen at events. Everyone pays for the same subscription and has freedom to play on any shard they want to the same capacity as their fellow players. Please, treat them kindly and with respect regardless of their 'home shard'. We are one big community afterall

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

@Olcher What is your opinion on Multiboxxing at EM events?

 

[Olcher]

@Olcher What is your opinion on Multiboxxing at EM events?

THIS, SIR, IS BAIT AND I'M NOT TAKING IT.

 

[DSC Napa]

Get rid of the multiboxxing and 19/20 players at events will be happy.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Get rid of the multiboxxing and 19/20 players at event will be happy.

Thanks for the opinion. It is one I share as well. I currently don't do events because of them. I hope @Mesanna "follows through" as she stated at the 20th party. Because I am looking forward to, perhaps, start doing EM events again.

 

[DSC Napa]

It is one I share as well. I currently don't do events because of them.

I do events on about ~15 shards and multiboxxers are the bane of my existence. The drops(2-3 a month) are nice but they are not the sole reason to attend.
The lag and confusion with that many multibox players is what makes these events so ****ty.

 

[Judas D'arc]

As I witnessed the entirety of this play out I'm going to voice my opinion on this matter, and, based on the previous posts in this thread I'm sure it won't be a very popular one but you need to understand that it's fact.

Mesanna has explained numerous times that EMs are REQUIRED as a PART OF THEIR JOB to post their events to the UO.com Event Calendar. She said at the last Atlantic Dev M&G that she will fire EMs that do not post on the calendar as players were complaining the Lake Superior EM was not posting their events on the calendar. While I can't say for sure why this is a requirement I believe it is a good thing. As a player of several shards its an excellent resource to see everything for the upcoming month. Why bother having events if your players don't know when they are? I do also think it provides some sort of clarity for the EM program. We sure don't need any more corruption in the program after the Clops fiasco.

I personally checked the UO.com event calendar twice last Monday. Once was around this time of this post (noon-ish) during my lunch break and the second one was when I got home from work around 5:30 CST. Neither times was the Catskills event on the calendar. The only reason I know that the event was happening was that I was ICQ'd and was told by a fellow Catskills player. This player did not know there was an event that night either until after the event had began. I can admit that it was a bit frustrating that the event was not posted on the calendar a few hours before it starting and my evening was slightly inconvenienced and interrupted.

As a recap: this whole situation has nothing to do with any cross-sharder elitism, item drops, the event being postponed an hour, how good/bad Dramnar is as an EM or any other nonsense. It's literally a case of the EM, whether a mistake or not, did not do their job and someone called Dramnar out on it.

That all being said, I will echo several other posts in this thread and say that I do believe EM Dramnar is an excellent EM, perhaps one of the best, and I'm glad he's not being fired. As a matter of fact I look forward to attending his event tonight

As an aside, this whole 'home shard' elitism has to go. The 'home shard players' that echo this attitude are the ones that have some of the most toxic, deconstruction and cancerous attitudes I've ever seen at events. Everyone pays for the same subscription and has freedom to play on any shard they want to the same capacity as their fellow players. Please, treat them kindly and with respect regardless of their 'home shard'. We are one big community afterall

First, I would like to say that I'm glad you enjoy EM Dramnar's events and hope to see you there tonight.

You're right, Mesanna did previously state she would fire EMs who didn't post on the uo.com schedule. Do we know whether this was effectively communicated to EM Dramnar after the Meet & Greet two months ago? Without knowing the answer to this, it's hard to hold him solely responsible. Regardless, I'm certain that he's been made aware of this requirement now or will be tonight.

From the content of your post and your profile post count, you appear to be an experienced Stratics user and EM event attendee. So I find it difficult to believe that you were unaware of other places to check (the Catskills Shard Stratics Forum or the Town Criers in-game), where Dramnar (and Barnaby before him) have been giving notice of their events schedules for years. Also, is it your habit to just randomly check each day to see if an EM event is occurring later that day? If so, I would suggest planning ahead by checking the schedules earlier in the month to avoid similar disappointment.

This is the first I've heard someone complain about 'home shard elitism' and I find this term rather laughable. Of course, the EM should first and foremost serve the community of the shard they're assigned to. Every shard has a unique identity and has a different history, and not every EM is a good fit for every shard. This 'globalization' (shard-ization?) of UO has been terrible for the game and each individual shard community, and the only reason to think otherwise is if you're profiting from it.

We do all pay the same subscription fee, and this means that the people who actually play every day on a shard, putting hard work and effort in maintaining a community, should also be allowed to enjoy their home shards' EM events. And by event(s), I mean more than just the once a month drop event. EM Dramnar typically holds three events a month, and only one of these is drop-related. Why should the enjoyment of a select group of people that only play on Catskills for 1-2 hours during that drop event outweigh the enjoyment of the rest of us who are attending all three events? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

I do agree that everyone should treat each other with respect and no one should be rude to anyone else. However, based on my own experiences as a frequent Catskills EM event attendee, rude and disruptive behavior most often occurs at the drop events, rather than the non-drop events or governor meetings. Complaints about the length of an event, starving babies, and Game of Thrones/Walking Dead starting certainly don't happen during the governor meetings. So it's really difficult to agree with the position you're arguing.

That being said, I'm not outright against the presence of cross-sharders at Catskills EM events. In fact, I hope it encourages people to see what a great shard Catskills is so they'll play there more. But it's incredibly frustrating that in the past 5 months, we've repeatedly had to defend an EM the majority of the shard is happy with due to complaints from people who aren't playing there regularly.

 

[DSC Napa]

First, I would like to say that I'm glad you enjoy EM Dramnar's events and hope to see you there tonight.

You're right, Mesanna did previously state she would fire EMs who didn't post on the uo.com schedule. Do we know whether this was effectively communicated to EM Dramnar after the Meet & Greet two months ago? Without knowing the answer to this, it's hard to hold him solely responsible. Regardless, I'm certain that he's been made aware of this requirement now or will be tonight.

From the content of your post and your profile post count, you appear to be an experienced Stratics user and EM event attendee. So I find it difficult to believe that you were unaware of other places to check (the Catskills Shard Stratics Forum or the Town Criers in-game), where Dramnar (and Barnaby before him) have been giving notice of their events schedules for years. Also, is it your habit to just randomly check each day to see if an EM event is occurring later that day? If so, I would suggest planning ahead by checking the schedules earlier in the month to avoid similar disappointment.

This is the first I've heard someone complain about 'home shard elitism' and I find this term rather laughable. Of course, the EM should first and foremost serve the community of the shard they're assigned to. Every shard has a unique identity and has a different history, and not every EM is a good fit for every shard. This 'globalization' (shard-ization?) of UO has been terrible for the game and each individual shard community, and the only reason to think otherwise is if you're profiting from it.

I will take issue with this. My home shard has quite a few players that play elsewhere the majority of the time. PVP/farming/events/IDoCs everywhere. Our identity seems to be we keep our stuff at home but play everywhere else.

Cats is in my top 5 favorite shards.
Seems like a portion of the attendees at your governors meetings are off shard players.
I enjoy the events on Cats
Dranmar seems like he does a pretty good job and the locals enjoy having him around
That said, the manager in me thinks he should be privately chastised about punctuality and publicly praised for good work in his community.

 

[Judas D'arc]

I will take issue with this. My home shard has quite a few players that play elsewhere the majority of the time. PVP/farming/events/IDoCs everywhere. Our identity seems to be we keep our stuff at home but play everywhere else.

Cats is in my top 5 favorite shards.
Seems like a portion of the attendees at your governors meetings are off shard players.
I enjoy the events on Cats
Dranmar seems like he does a pretty good job and the locals enjoy having him around
That said, the manager in me thinks he should be privately chastised about punctuality and publicly praised for good work in his community.

You're right, it wasn't fair to say that the only reason to cross-shard was profit. But when it comes to the EM-drops and sell, I think profit is the motive. Also for other things beyond the scope of this conversation.

I am glad to hear you like Catskills. And to clarify, I wasn't trying to argue that there were no cross-sharders at the Catskills' non-drop event or the governor's meeting, or to imply that they're unwelcome there or any any event. I was merely stating that there's an absence of rude or disruptive behavior at them, in order to counter the accusation of 'home shard elitism' being the most toxic mentality in the game.

I agree with you 100% on your last point. That being said, I was happy with the outcome and Mesanna's deference to the feelings of the Catskills community.