Slayer Spell Books

[celticus]

My apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post this:

== Do slayer spell books like Conj Grim, etc affect summons? Or only damage spells?
== And Is there anything in game for mage / caster type that when worn will stack with the slayer book for additional damage (like a ring, mage type gloves, atrie of some type etc?) Pretty much like the fighter types have slayer talies, plus slayer weapons to do up to 300% damage?

TYVM in advance.

 

[afk]

My apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post this:

== Do slayer spell books like Conj Grim, etc affect summons? Or only damage spells?
== And Is there anything in game for mage / caster type that when worn will stack with the slayer book for additional damage (like a ring, mage type gloves, atrie of some type etc?) Pretty much like the fighter types have slayer talies, plus slayer weapons to do up to 300% damage?

TYVM in advance.

only damage spells; anything with sdi on it

 

[Dot_Warner]

Only direct damage spells benefit from SDI. Summons only benefit from the magery, mysticism, necromancy and spellweaving mastery passive enhanced summons ability.

Slayers that apply to magic skills are ONLY available on spellbooks. You can pretty much ignore any necromancy book with a slayer property on it, slayers don't work for necro spells (or spellweaving).

 

[Lord Gandalf]

Slayers that apply to magic skills are ONLY available on spellbooks.You can pretty much ignore any necromancy book with a slayer property on it, slayers don't work for necro spells (or spellweaving).

Wrong information.
You can equip a necro spellbook and cast magery or mysticism spells and still benefit from all the mods applied on it (slayer,sdi,fc,etc...)

 

[Dot_Warner]

Wrong information.
You can equip a necro spellbook and cast magery or mysticism spells and still benefit from all the mods applied on it (slayer,sdi,fc,etc...)

Notice where I said slayers don't work for necromancy?

Jup'nar's Grimoire books have crappy stats anyway.

 

[Poo]

but you can craft necro and myst books with slayers and stats, kinda funny, eh?
you can get necro and myst books with slayers and such but they do nothing for Necro and Myst.

 

[Mervyn]

but you can craft necro and myst books with slayers and stats, kinda funny, eh?
you can get necro and myst books with slayers and such but they do nothing for Necro and Myst.

Slayers do work for most mysticism spells. Arming a necro or mysticism slayer will enable slayer damage on magery and mysticism spells, i know it's silly. An unneccesary complexity.

 

[Ruby Knight]

Does having say an Undead Slayer Spell book and a Conjurer's Trinket equipped do 200X Damage to undead?

 

[Mervyn]

no, talisman slayers only work for kinetic damage, and they don't work for pets either.

 

[Ruby Knight]

Thanks. That is what I thought. Now if you have an Undead Trinket and an Undead Weapon, then it would do 4x the damage, right?

no, talisman slayers only work for kinetic damage, and they don't work for pets either.

 

[drcossack]

Thanks. That is what I thought. Now if you have an Undead Trinket and an Undead Weapon, then it would do 4x the damage, right?

Yes, Slayer Weap & Talisman stack.

 

[afk]

3x damage is max

 

[celticus]

Yep for the fighter combo trink/weap = 300 max stiil cool --> I wonder if mages could benefit from combo slayers in the future if devs allow..

 

[Smoot]

Yep for the fighter combo trink/weap = 300 max stiil cool --> I wonder if mages could benefit from combo slayers in the future if devs allow..

the thing is, the whole mage damage bonus system would have to be looked at. warriors cant really take advantage of 2 slayers, because you go over the cap so easily without. with increasing SDI increase items, and no pvm cap to sdi, additional slayers would cause balance issues that would have to be carefully looked at. Perhaps, similar to PVP, a pure mage could have no cap. but a mage that also had other skills, like taming spellweaving etc, would be subject to a spell damage increase cap. say around 50 percent or less from items, 200% total (since magery can also be used to heal, unlike warriors who have to have around 100 skill devoted to some sort of healing)

I dont know if its really worth the trouble to balance all of this, just so mages get more damage. A mage isnt a pure damage character anyway, they gain all the benefits of magery. Its more of a support set of skills, and not meant to focus mainly on damage. So having 1 slayer equipped at a time seems very fair. especially since mages have just gotten a huge boost in the past 2 years with spawning artifact spellbooks from the roof encounter.

 

[G.v.P]

no, talisman slayers only work for kinetic damage, and they don't work for pets either.

I never understood why people thought talismans increased pet damage. I have seen people in the past use a bird slayer talisman on their tamer thinking they were getting more damage in on swoops...and I was like...naw.

the thing is, the whole mage damage bonus system would have to be looked at. warriors cant really take advantage of 2 slayers, because you go over the cap so easily without. with increasing SDI increase items, and no pvm cap to sdi, additional slayers would cause balance issues that would have to be carefully looked at. Perhaps, similar to PVP, a pure mage could have no cap. but a mage that also had other skills, like taming spellweaving etc, would be subject to a spell damage increase cap. say around 50 percent or less from items, 200% total (since magery can also be used to heal, unlike warriors who have to have around 100 skill devoted to some sort of healing)

I dont know if its really worth the trouble to balance all of this, just so mages get more damage. A mage isnt a pure damage character anyway, they gain all the benefits of magery. Its more of a support set of skills, and not meant to focus mainly on damage. So having 1 slayer equipped at a time seems very fair. especially since mages have just gotten a huge boost in the past 2 years with spawning artifact spellbooks from the roof encounter.

Do roof books (Anon's Spellbook) have irregular slayer mods like the last invasion, which gave us all kinds of random things like Vermin Slayer spellbooks?

 

[Smoot]

I never understood why people thought talismans increased pet damage. I have seen people in the past use a bird slayer talisman on their tamer thinking they were getting more damage in on swoops...and I was like...naw.



Do roof books (Anon's Spellbook) have irregular slayer mods like the last invasion, which gave us all kinds of random things like Vermin Slayer spellbooks?

no, but for actual use, repond gives the same damage as vermin (200 percent). theres some benefit to some of the minor slayers from the invasion, but most of these have such little practical use. Fey slayer also isnt covered by the roof drops, but there is Fallen Mystic's spellbook. Most of the invasion books minor slayers have already been available for years in scappers for relatively cheap. Bird, Goblin, Bear. those are only available as invasion spellbooks. but very little reason to actually use those. Most people were collecting the minor slayers more as a collector's item to be able to say they had a full set of invasion books.

 

[railshot]

the thing is, the whole mage damage bonus system would have to be looked at. warriors cant really take advantage of 2 slayers, because you go over the cap so easily without. with increasing SDI increase items, and no pvm cap to sdi, additional slayers would cause balance issues that would have to be carefully looked at. Perhaps, similar to PVP, a pure mage could have no cap. but a mage that also had other skills, like taming spellweaving etc, would be subject to a spell damage increase cap. say around 50 percent or less from items, 200% total (since magery can also be used to heal, unlike warriors who have to have around 100 skill devoted to some sort of healing)

I dont know if its really worth the trouble to balance all of this, just so mages get more damage. A mage isnt a pure damage character anyway, they gain all the benefits of magery. Its more of a support set of skills, and not meant to focus mainly on damage. So having 1 slayer equipped at a time seems very fair. especially since mages have just gotten a huge boost in the past 2 years with spawning artifact spellbooks from the roof encounter.

Warriors have a huge advantage over casters in that they are able to leach mana, life, and stamina.In addition warriors have a bunch of additional skills that enhance damage - Chiv, Bush, Anat, etc. Uncapped SDI may produce higher peak DPS, but warriors beat caster in sustained DPS by a wide margin.

 

[Smoot]

Warriors have a huge advantage over casters in that they are able to leach mana, life, and stamina.In addition warriors have a bunch of additional skills that enhance damage - Chiv, Bush, Anat, etc. Uncapped SDI may produce higher peak DPS, but warriors beat caster in sustained DPS by a wide margin.

as they should. warriors have limited crowd control abilities, but do much higher damage. mages arent meant for high damage. they have summons, teleport, fields, mana vamp, protection, magic reflection etc etc to make up for the lower pure damage output.

 

[railshot]

as they should. warriors have limited crowd control abilities, but do much higher damage. mages arent meant for high damage. they have summons, teleport, fields, mana vamp, protection, magic reflection etc etc to make up for the lower pure damage output.

So mages already do less damage than warriors. I don't see why mages should be gimped further then.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Warriors have a huge advantage over casters in that they are able to leach mana, life, and stamina.In addition warriors have a bunch of additional skills that enhance damage - Chiv, Bush, Anat, etc. Uncapped SDI may produce higher peak DPS, but warriors beat caster in sustained DPS by a wide margin.

mages can leech mana (wraith form) and that is all they need to stay alive. mages or casters in general also have skills that increase their damage (eval, spiritspeak, focus, inscription) and mages can always use mageweapons which saves them 120 skill points while still getting the exact same defense chance vs kinetic attacks.

mages and warriors can't do the exact same thing and they shouldn't too because what's the points of having different classes in the first place if they could? Each of them have theis field of expertise in which they outdo the other. Simply looking at one aspect won't give you the full picture.

 

[railshot]

mages can leech mana (wraith form) and that is all they need to stay alive. mages or casters in general also have skills that increase their damage (eval, spiritspeak, focus, inscription) and mages can always use mageweapons which saves them 120 skill points while still getting the exact same defense chance vs kinetic attacks.

mages and warriors can't do the exact same thing and they shouldn't too because what's the points of having different classes in the first place if they could? Each of them have theis field of expertise in which they outdo the other. Simply looking at one aspect won't give you the full picture.

The biggest practical disadvantage for the casters is that they cannot do damage while healing. A mage that is forced to heal all the time is effectively harmless. Warriors can dish out damage while healing themselves or leaching.

I do agree that they should not be the same. I am merely objecting to the notion that mages are somehow owerpowered compared to the warriors. I think in PvM they are more or less balanced.

 

[Basara]

mages can leech mana (wraith form)

Wraith Form is a Necro spell, and necro spell only.

There is a "Mana Vampire" spell, but vs. most targets you don't get back as much mana as you spend to cast it - it's more to mess with your target than to refill yourself.

The real problem is that stuff that would be OP for PvP is nerfed to hell when the same is applied to PvM, and the devs have always been more concerned with PvP balance than making the PvM side balanced. A mage, properly geared, can dominate a single target type, but when the targets get mixed (especially when mixed slayer type) they become vulnerable. For example, my mage with a demon slayer, can 1-shot most ice fiends, but can run into trouble trying to fight the one that's on the main level of Ice, because of the elementals and serpents. Summons sorta balance it out a little, but combat-effective summons are 2 or more slots, unless you're playing a weaver. If anyone wants to argue about AoE, and claim that it's some kind of cure-all, I dare them to take a mage to the turtle spawn and Earthquake a group of 10+ gorillas....

 

[Tabby Kapak]

The biggest advantage mages have is that they don't miss, while dexxers do miss lots. It was one of the reasons we hardly ever play dexxers, contrary to what we expected, the higher the skill got the more we seemed to miss! But we agree with Max and Railshot, they should not be the same as they have their own (dis)advantages.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Wraith Form is a Necro spell, and necro spell only.

yeah, so what?
with a human character all you need is a wraith form scroll and you'll have the mana leech ability. put some spirit speak on your template to get more mana back and that's it. how is that any different from warriors putting necro on their template to gain access to vampire form? the skill points spent are even about the same btw.

also as a mage you have access to a huge variety of spells that replace entire skills: invis replaces 100 hiding to just name one example.

A mage, properly geared, can dominate a single target type, but when the targets get mixed (especially when mixed slayer type) they become vulnerable. For example, my mage with a demon slayer, can 1-shot most ice fiends, but can run into trouble trying to fight the one that's on the main level of Ice, because of the elementals and serpents.

of course you can't expect to just stand there as a mage and deal damage while not having to heal or anything. with invis it is easy to lead monsters away and return to focus on the one you actually want to slay in the scenario described above. mages are the most versatile characters you can play in UO. if you want to play them successfully though, you need to make use of all the spells they have available and know when to use what. they require a different play style than sampires but they're nowhere near ineffective when played right.

 

[G.v.P]

The biggest advantage mages have is that they don't miss, while dexxers do miss lots. It was one of the reasons we hardly ever play dexxers, contrary to what we expected, the higher the skill got the more we seemed to miss! But we agree with Max and Railshot, they should not be the same as they have their own (dis)advantages.

That's why ABC archers became so popular. You have range so you don't have to deal with superior melee range monster abilities or damage, you can heal on the run, and your base dps is sky-high.

For the longest time it's been archers, tamers, and sampires, with mages sprinkled in between. I think one of the significant changes they made to the way looting goes, at least, is in how they allowed mages to heal people and still get rewards. In that regard, a mage can make use of its versatility as an offensive/defensive unit and still get rewarded. Although, Rising Colossus was also a huge addition. Going back to EVs feels bad after using RCs for awhile.

I would like to see EVs looked at but they nerfed them in the past by making it so they will dispel if there are a certain amount together at once in the same tile...so I am not sure if that would be worth getting into, but it would be nice if magic resist played a role in dispel, like say if you had 120 Magic Resist you would have a 20% chance to dispel a revenant every time it hits you for damage (maybe 100, 5%, 110, 10%, 120, 20%). Then likewise, make monsters with high magic resist naturally dispel rather than auto dispel, but maybe half those numbers, like 120 monster magic resist would have a 10% chance to dispel. Shrugs. Auto dispel never feels good, even though I understand why it is there.

 

[Basara]

Are you sure, Max?

Last I checked, the publish a decade or so ago that made all shapechanging spells immediately fail if the character's skill fell below the minimum to cast (without scroll), should prevent a JOAT human from casting and maintaining Wraith Form.

If you're seeing something different, report it as a bug, because it is.

I've sure as heck not seen it, and I play a human mage.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Are you sure, Max?

Last I checked, the publish a decade or so ago that made all shapechanging spells immediately fail if the character's skill fell below the minimum to cast (without scroll), should prevent a JOAT human from casting and maintaining Wraith Form.

If you're seeing something different, report it as a bug, because it is.

I've sure as heck not seen it, and I play a human mage.

I am 100% sure because I use this very often:
human char, JoaT necro of 20, 120 spirit speak (less would also do but I only have 120 on a soulstone) and you get the full mana leech of wraith form.
I use scrolls to cast wraith form but I could theoretically also use regs/lrc since the minimum skill for wraith form is 20 (but even with scrolls I fail a couple of times).

And since the minimum requirement for wraith form is 20 and thus is covered by JoaT it is absolutely NOT a bug.