What if EA hadn't bought the Ultima license...?

[Lore]

Just curious what the best case scenario would have been in your minds. Like lets assume Garriott wanted to sell the license and was just looking for the best deal that wasn't EA. Who else was in the running? What would that look like based on how that company has done since?

I'm also assuming developers like Blizzard wouldn't buy a license they did not create unless they were intending to just steal technology and turn the game off.

 

[Dot_Warner]

EA didn't buy the "Ultima license," they bought the entirety of Origin Systems, Inc. in '92 (five months after Ultima VII p1 was released).

Back in those days, there weren't many giant gaming companies...mainly just EA and Sierra On-line (now Activision Blizzard). There were other small studios, which probably wouldn't have had the cash to placate Garriott's ego.

Strangely enough, had EA not bought out OSI, UO probably wouldn't exist today...which it does, in spite of EA.

 

[skett]

I mostly agree with Dot

 

[Dot_Warner]

Did EA pick up Broadsword's contract recently?

Sources say that Broadsword's contract expires in November ( I highly doubt we'll ever be officially told one way or the other..well, maybe around the time it is renewed) However, I seriously doubt BS would be working on the plans that they are if they thought renewal was unlikely.

So, UO should be around a while longer.

 

[Captn Norrington]

If I were them I would also be working on a plan to silence those sources too... it's really become rather ridiculous, you can find out anything secret in UO within a couple of hours these days with the right network of friends and sources. Even though I like hearing the secret stuff personally, it's generally not a great idea for an organization to allow such a constant stream of leaks.

 

[Dot_Warner]

If I were them I would also be working on a plan to silence those sources too... it's really become rather ridiculous, you can find out anything secret in UO within a couple of hours these days with the right network of friends and sources. Even though I like hearing the secret stuff personally, it's generally not a great idea for an organization to allow such a constant stream of leaks.

If we didn't have the leaks we do, this would be way more prevalent:


IMHO, Mesanna keeps too many trivial things secret that would be better used to drum up anticipation, excitement and goodwill. All things a 2oyo community of internet/gamer geeks desperately needs.

Conversely, releasing too many plans at one time (i.e. Friday) could lead to overload

 

[Lady Storm]

Dot while I like everyone else loves a good bit of gossip...
Mesanna has had her hands full to keep some things meant to be as a surprise so many time in the past...
I mean how many of those video's did she nearly gag the others to keep a publish's info on the need to know till it went live?
Its nice someone who has loose lips is so free with stuff that is a pink slip offence.

Yes EA has a time line.. we were on the EA sunset list.

Someone here best tell me why I always get the feeling when I come on this site that I feel a good deal of you are wanting that to happen asap.
So many cut and grind the game to such a pulp its not fun to read... any good news? hell no
I have talked to players who were quitting and asked the main question as to why.... they were quoting verbatim people here. Line by line.
I asked them if they had been reading stratics.. yes
So many of you have down talked the game to others when you have a gripe or are angry.
It rubbed off.
You might not of meant that to come off as it did... you have put your hands into this games future.
Will we survive?
You damn well best hope so.

For one Richard needed the capitol to put UO on the market. EA took advantage.
EA has always said its not a online game company. They even admitted UO was a good deal.
Madden is how they made their company... we were just a change purse for their sticky fingers.

 

[Jynxx]

EA is to blame for allowing WOW to sweep the entire MMO field into Blizzard's pocket.

At the end of the 90's people were craving 3D gaming. It wasn't just all the rage; it was the future of gaming and everyone wanted a piece of it.

Who knows how much money was poured into UO2 before EA unceremoniously cancelled it right before it's release.

For those of you who never saw what UO2 looked like, it's worth 4 minutes of your time:


This game would have existed 4 years before WoW. And EA shut it down like it was nothing. A colossal waste of time, money, and resources.

Hope someone at EA realized the 12 million subs X 10 bucks a month that WoW was getting those first several years could have been theirs instead....

 

[Lord Ron Fellows]

EA is to blame for allowing WOW to sweep the entire MMO field into Blizzard's pocket.

At the end of the 90's people were craving 3D gaming. It wasn't just all the rage; it was the future of gaming and everyone wanted a piece of it.

Who knows how much money was poured into UO2 before EA unceremoniously cancelled it right before it's release.

For those of you who never saw what UO2 looked like, it's worth 4 minutes of your time:


This game would have existed 4 years before WoW. And EA shut it down like it was nothing. A colossal waste of time, money, and resources.

Hope someone at EA realized the 12 million subs X 10 bucks a month that WoW was getting those first several years could have been theirs instead....

That looks so terrible...

 

[Jynxx]

That looks so terrible...

It didn't in 1999.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

If I were them I would also be working on a plan to silence those sources too... it's really become rather ridiculous, you can find out anything secret in UO within a couple of hours these days with the right network of friends and sources. Even though I like hearing the secret stuff personally, it's generally not a great idea for an organization to allow such a constant stream of leaks.

Got some hot info but I can't disclose my source. They're coming out with an absurd new land no one wants and there will be some new uber items just slightly better than we have now with a one in a million drop rate. The things we really want and the things that they promised us will be put on hold till that's done in 2021. The new land will get dumped on Kyronix to create and he will get zero appreciation for all his work and will be made a scrape goat for everything the subscribers complain about.

 

[Uvtha]

Strangely enough, had EA not bought out OSI, UO probably wouldn't exist today

No question in my mind.

 

[Uvtha]

The new land will get dumped on Kyronix to create and he will get zero appreciation for all his work and will be made a scrape goat for everything the subscribers complain about.

Scapegoat, anyway... No offense to him, but he shouldn't be world building, someone with experience in art design and or level/world building should be. I hate to bash on him because it's not his fault he got the job (I don't assume) I'm sure it was due to budgetary concerns and he's a good sport for making the effort, but Dino land looks like what it is, "dev art". He's obviously a talented dude, but I just don't think that world building is in his wheelhouse, at least not what we have seen.

 

[Nexus]

Someone here best tell me why I always get the feeling when I come on this site that I feel a good deal of you are wanting that to happen asap.

Here's an explanation. A lot of us, at least the most vocal people here are long time players 15+ years. Since AoS was forced down everyone's throat the game has been evolving by adding increasingly item based game play, grind fests and other non-Sandbox elements. UO was a game where you, I or anyone else could engage in any and all content as a casual player if we chose. Now for some styles of game play you need to grind to acquire, or go the illegitimate route and buy billions in gold in order to purchase items to construct suits, obtain specific power-scrolls, purchase items from the game store to enhance crafting to make legitimate gear at an almost acceptable rate, etc.

UO as it is today more closely resembles a low budget F2P Retro-Theme Park MMO than what was once a thriving AAA Sandbox game. Other titles from the same era that are still running such as EQ are holding true to their roots and origins. The disgruntled you hear are upset that UO hasn't done the same, and as the development teams size has diminished over time the rate these types of changes have gone in has increased. These changes focus on time engagement as a primary metric, not quality of engagement. It's about feeding and creating an obsessive addiction just like the junkie who starts getting high because they think it's fun, only to get snared and unable to stop later. The people who would like to see an end come ASAP are those begging their dealer to cut them off so they can get clean.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Scapegoat, anyway... No offense to him, but he shouldn't be world building, someone with experience in art design and or level/world building should be. I hate to bash on him because it's not his fault he got the job (I don't assume) I'm sure it was due to budgetary concerns and he's a good sport for making the effort, but Dino land looks like what it is, "dev art". He's obviously a talented dude, but I just don't think that world building is in his wheelhouse, at least not what we have seen.

I thought he did a good job. This stuff always looks easy from the outside looking in. He seems like a good guy. People say horrible things to and about him on the boards and he always stays polite and classy. Doesn't lose his cool. Ya gotta remember the current team is just a whisper compared to the size of the teams in the past. Just the fact that an expansion occurred is simply amazing.

 

[Arroth Thaiel]

I thought he did a good job. This stuff always looks easy from the outside looking in. He seems like a good guy. People say horrible things to and about him on the boards and he always stays polite and classy. Doesn't lose his cool. Ya gotta remember the current team is just a whisper compared to the size of the teams in the past. Just the fact that an expansion occurred is simply amazing.

On Friday we may find the team larger than we believe and with something up their sleeve.


Umm....I actually wrote that before realizing it rhymed. So I'm leaving it.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

On Friday we may find the team larger than we believe and with something up their sleeve.


Umm....I actually wrote that before realizing it rhymed. So I'm leaving it.

Whatever they say I'll believe it when I see it Unless it's free shard shields for everyone I doubt I'll be excited lol

 

[skett]

I thought he did a good job. This stuff always looks easy from the outside looking in. He seems like a good guy. People say horrible things to and about him on the boards and he always stays polite and classy. Doesn't lose his cool. Ya gotta remember the current team is just a whisper compared to the size of the teams in the past. Just the fact that an expansion occurred is simply amazing.

This is true, But it's the tone and type of the content that they added that upset some people dinosaurs! Really wtf
I remember back when samurai empire came out a lot of people just laughed it had no part in UO a lot said what's next Star Wars in UO. Then they gave us elf because lotr was popular then pissed off so many should have been orcs. Not done yet the very ugly gargoyle art for player char looks like whacked out batts.
Like it's been said UO is just a wacky theme park now

 

[Lore]

If there is one thing I've learned from message boards and forums it's that when you're happy and enjoying a game you don't usually post about it, but when you disagree with something you're probably going to be very vocal about it. It's always seemed easier to complain than to defend as well so when someone complains they usually snowball and it spreads like someone else said. It rubs off.

It's happened to me where I'll be playing a game and love it and then I read a post about someone's asinine opinion and think about it and then agree or it at least diminishes my enjoyment a bit.

 

[railshot]

I have talked to players who were quitting and asked the main question as to why.... they were quoting verbatim people here. Line by line.
I asked them if they had been reading stratics.. yes
So many of you have down talked the game to others when you have a gripe or are angry.
It rubbed off.
You might not of meant that to come off as it did... you have put your hands into this games future.
Will we survive?
You damn well best hope so.
.

IMO, sweeping things under the rug is a much surer way to kill a game then discussing and addressing them in the open. Regular players will know about negative things even when these things are kept hush hush. They will experience them first hand or hear about them from their guildies. What they also will see is that these issues are not being addressed (because why bother if no one is complaining) or discussion of these issues is actively suppressed. And this will drive away players much faster than a healthy process such as - 1) Seeing a bunch of complaints on Stratics, 2) Within some reasonable time Devs acknowledging the issue and stating how they will address it.
We don't see #2 happening nearly enough with UO. Which is a shame, because for a very small investment of time, they could have garnered huge amounts of good will (and player retention) even if some time they have to say - "hey we know about it but can't/won't fix it for X reasons".

 

[Judas D'arc]

For one Richard needed the capitol to put UO on the market. EA took advantage.
EA has always said its not a online game company. They even admitted UO was a good deal.
Madden is how they made their company... we were just a change purse for their sticky fingers.

This makes no sense. How did EA take advantage? EA already owned Origin and Ultima at the time of UO's development. It was EA's money and he worked for them at that point.

 

[Judas D'arc]

Here's an explanation. A lot of us, at least the most vocal people here are long time players 15+ years. Since AoS was forced down everyone's throat the game has been evolving by adding increasingly item based game play, grind fests and other non-Sandbox elements. UO was a game where you, I or anyone else could engage in any and all content as a casual player if we chose. Now for some styles of game play you need to grind to acquire, or go the illegitimate route and buy billions in gold in order to purchase items to construct suits, obtain specific power-scrolls, purchase items from the game store to enhance crafting to make legitimate gear at an almost acceptable rate, etc.

I agree with this completely. This has been the biggest hurdle I've had with getting former players I once knew to come back to the game and actually stick around.

 

[Revenant]

For those of you who never saw what UO2 looked like, it's worth 4 minutes of your time

This looks like a very few completed animations and backdrops. I bet if it truly had been mere months away, we'd be playing it now... but it was probably behind schedule and in a state of denial.

 

[Lady Storm]

Origin systems was owned by Richard Garrott...
Origin Systems - Wikipedia
He, his dad and brother founded the company...

Learn your facts... UO and its original dev , which by the way most have gone on to be super but in other game industry positions.

EA bought for 35mill even though Origin and EA were constantly fighting over projects.
EA did take and messed up UO to get back at them in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Origin systems was owned by Richard Garrott...
Origin Systems - Wikipedia
He, his dad and brother founded the company...

Learn your facts... UO and its original dev , which by the way most have gone on to be super but in other game industry positions.

EA bought for 35mill even though Origin and EA were constantly fighting over projects.
EA did take and messed up UO to get back at them in my opinion.

umm....the link u & others provided said origin got bought in 1992. uo didn't come until 1997. that's why this weekend is its 20th b-day. how could they mess up something that didn't exist 4 5 years later?

so, um, wut? hope it's ok 2 post this.

 

[Arroth Thaiel]

Just because these threads always pop up....

What Dot said is correct.

EA bought Origin and did so long before Ultima Online. EA, with some serious cajoling, then approved funding for UO.

Without EA's initial investment, UO would not exist at all.

IGN has an excellent series of interviews with Richard Gariott where all of these interactions and funding are discussed in detail.

Here is part 3 of that interview series.

Discussion of how UO came about starts around 3:00.

Discussion of UO2 and why it was eventually cancelled starts around 8:35.

EA nonsense is continuous.

 

[calibek]

I go back and forth on this thought. On one hand I think UO might be in a much different and better state today because they probably wouldn't have tried to Diablo-fied the game. On the other hand I feel it probably wouldn't exist anymore because Garriot seems to have the attention span of a 3 month old puppy where a new shiny ball just rolled past and now he has gone after it.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

This is true, But it's the tone and type of the content that they added that upset some people dinosaurs! Really wtf
I remember back when samurai empire came out a lot of people just laughed it had no part in UO a lot said what's next Star Wars in UO. Then they gave us elf because lotr was popular then pissed off so many should have been orcs. Not done yet the very ugly gargoyle art for player char looks like whacked out batts.
Like it's been said UO is just a wacky theme park now

lol. Yeah dinosaurs was a little off the wall. But I doubt that was a Kyronix call. I would think Mesanna would be making a call like that for the direction of the game. Kyronix just had to make it happen. As part of a team naturally. On a plus note with the theme park idea is you can basically stay out of that one area most of the time and then that content doesn't exist. If you don't go to "dinoland" then you can mostly ignore it Personally I'd like a pirate or orc land. Lots of new pirate goodies I couldn't resist going there. Fix High Seas while they're at it.

 

[Jynxx]

This looks like a very few completed animations and backdrops. I bet if it truly had been mere months away, we'd be playing it now... but it was probably behind schedule and in a state of denial.

Ever play Ultima 9? Probably not, the game sold like crap and EA cancelled everything that Origin was working on due to poor sales. It didn't matter how much work was done, they axed everything.

Here's a picture of the back of my Ultima 9 CD case:

 

[Lore]

lol. Yeah dinosaurs was a little off the wall. But I doubt that was a Kyronix call. I would think Mesanna would be making a call like that for the direction of the game. Kyronix just had to make it happen. As part of a team naturally. On a plus note with the theme park idea is you can basically stay out of that one area most of the time and then that content doesn't exist. If you don't go to "dinoland" then you can mostly ignore it Personally I'd like a pirate or orc land. Lots of new pirate goodies I couldn't resist going there. Fix High Seas while they're at it.

That would be cool. Finding out all the pirates are actually from another land and theirs a rift somewhere leading there. Or having an invading army a shard has to fight off in order to enter the rift and fight back.

 

[Lady Storm]

This is where people get in the thick of an argument when its not anything you or I can change... its history.
Oh we can be like China or Russia and alter the history books and say EA was the innocent party and did no harm.
The truth of it is quite a bit different then is presumed.
EA was not some big benevolent investor that sat back and watched their money grow in this.
The Garrott's and EA had a love hate relationship and a business profile that is very much in the public view today.
Origin Systems was a case in point...
Garrott and company got UO off the ground and were running the game all the while employee by employee was switched out as sneaky as a snake.
EA all the while just told them they were getting to know the workings and the few staff that was being put in was benign in their running of UO.
The fact was the personel that got reassigned to EA's other offices found in a few weeks of being reassigned they got a pink slip.
EA was infiltrating UO to take over, and that happened when they got in an argument with Garrott and crew..
EA took over in a coup worthy of a foreign government!
Garrott didn't walk away he got railroaded out. To this day EA holds a grudge and refused to even allow him near its property.
Our founder offered to dig us out of trouble and get the game back on track... EA told him NO.
Every company EA has acquired its replaced personel first, then stripped talent, funds, then placed in in sunset mode.
Its EA's M.O.
Buy, Strip, Destroy.
Mythic is prime example.
Or don't you remember they gave Bonnie and crew a few days max before they locked the doors to move anything they needed for UO at Broadsword.
No help offered the few dev they left her with after they let go all others they moved the office by themselves in a few days..
EA gave them the ultimatum get out.. and she did too salvaging every scrap she could before they sent in a distruction crew to destroy all that was left.

 

[Judas D'arc]

Origin systems was owned by Richard Garrott...
Origin Systems - Wikipedia
He, his dad and brother founded the company...

Learn your facts... UO and its original dev , which by the way most have gone on to be super but in other game industry positions.

EA bought for 35mill even though Origin and EA were constantly fighting over projects.
EA did take and messed up UO to get back at them in my opinion.

This is where people get in the thick of an argument when its not anything you or I can change... its history.
Oh we can be like China or Russia and alter the history books and say EA was the innocent party and did no harm.
The truth of it is quite a bit different then is presumed.
EA was not some big benevolent investor that sat back and watched their money grow in this.
The Garrott's and EA had a love hate relationship and a business profile that is very much in the public view today.
Origin Systems was a case in point...
Garrott and company got UO off the ground and were running the game all the while employee by employee was switched out as sneaky as a snake.
EA all the while just told them they were getting to know the workings and the few staff that was being put in was benign in their running of UO.
The fact was the personel that got reassigned to EA's other offices found in a few weeks of being reassigned they got a pink slip.
EA was infiltrating UO to take over, and that happened when they got in an argument with Garrott and crew..
EA took over in a coup worthy of a foreign government!
Garrott didn't walk away he got railroaded out. To this day EA holds a grudge and refused to even allow him near its property.
Our founder offered to dig us out of trouble and get the game back on track... EA told him NO.
Every company EA has acquired its replaced personel first, then stripped talent, funds, then placed in in sunset mode.
Its EA's M.O.
Buy, Strip, Destroy.
Mythic is prime example.
Or don't you remember they gave Bonnie and crew a few days max before they locked the doors to move anything they needed for UO at Broadsword.
No help offered the few dev they left her with after they let go all others they moved the office by themselves in a few days..
EA gave them the ultimatum get out.. and she did too salvaging every scrap she could before they sent in a distruction crew to destroy all that was left.

Learn your facts and cut the condescending attitude.

I've been playing Ultima games since the mid-80s (as I'm sure many others here have too), I first started playing UO in 1997, and I know very well the history of Origin systems. I've read books, articles, etc and know about the history between EA and Origin Systems. I'm well aware of how Garriott inserted not so flattering references to EA in his games, like Ultima 6 and 7.

You're not even properly quoting the wikipedia article that you cited. What you're doing is you conflating the issues related to three different time periods 1) EA and Origin's relationship prior to Origin's sale (prior to 1992), 2) Ultima Online's development (1995-1997), and 3) EA's eventually cancellation of UO2 and the gutting of Origin Systems (early 2001).

In this thread, I haven't seen anyone argue that EA's overall treatment of the Ultima IP or Ultima Online during the past 25 years has been particularly STELLAR. Personally, I happen to agree that it was unfortunate what happened to Garriott, Origin, and the cancelled UO2. I don't particularly like what EA has done to UO since. I also agree that EA doesn't have the best history of treating its acquisitions well. But your original point, that EA somehow swooped in and scammed Richard Garriott because he needed the the money during its development makes no sense because EA OWNED ULTIMA AND ORIGIN at that time. It's simply factually inaccurate, which is why I posted.

I also think comparing EA's treatment of Garriott and Origins with their treatment of the team that became Broadsword is very apples and oranges.

Finally, your attempts to compare any argument you disagreement with to the actions of a totalitarian regime is ridiculous and insulting to anyone who has actually lived under those governments, especially since you're the one twisting and confusing the history and facts here. I think the original point of the thread was an interesting "What if" scenario, not yet another excuse for you to go off on another of your ill-formed and ill-informed rants.

 

[Judas D'arc]

In response to the original question (and assuming you meant if EA hadn't scuttled Origins and gotten rid of Garriott), I was personally looking forward to Ultima Online 2. I remember reading all the prequel fiction at the time, though I've only skimmed the three novels. It would have definitely been superior to the recycled elements of it that were used for Lord Blackthorn's Revenge. But I think long term, EA was probably always going to assume more and more control over the subsidiary, if it's history with other acquisitions proves anything. Take Bioware, for example.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

*Captain Lucky sits quietly and speaks softly to a crystal ball* The crystal ball speaks "There's a thread lock coming in the near future!". *Captain Lucky sits back and munches popcorn*

 

[Lady Storm]

Like you I too started on the first Ultima games.
My office was where my son got interested in the game after school waiting for me to head home.
He loved playing Ultima 7, 8, 9.
When we got hooked on UO it was in beta.
I am far from saying Garrott was an angel or that we would be in a better situation.
That is a question for some other time line..
We shall say you have your reading of what happened and I have mine. Both have merit.
The point was EA is not to be trusted.
You cant keep draining the pool of resources and have it keep healthy if you don't support it.
EA made very bad choices for UO, and the other projects under its mantle of influence.
UO2 being a good example.
As for Bioware, the creator and ceo was a smart cookie and put in the contract for the acquisition a few clauses that kept him in the seat over its running I was told.
Now if this is true idk.

 

[Lady Storm]

oh Lucky pass the popcorn... did you add extra butter?

 

[Capt. Lucky]

oh Lucky pass the popcorn... did you add extra butter?

I did! I got free popcorn when I bought Wonder Woman on bluray (a mistake, Wonder Woman not the popcorn lol). EA has destroyed to many of my worlds to ever support them again. UO being the exception to the rule. I'm still pissed about them shutting down Legends of Kesmai lol Me hold a grudge?

 

[Judas D'arc]

Like you I too started on the first Ultima games.
My office was where my son got interested in the game after school waiting for me to head home.
He loved playing Ultima 7, 8, 9.
When we got hooked on UO it was in beta.
I am far from saying Garrott was an angel or that we would be in a better situation.
That is a question for some other time line..
We shall say you have your reading of what happened and I have mine. Both have merit.
The point was EA is not to be trusted.
You cant keep draining the pool of resources and have it keep healthy if you don't support it.
EA made very bad choices for UO, and the other projects under its mantle of influence.
UO2 being a good example.
As for Bioware, the creator and ceo was a smart cookie and put in the contract for the acquisition a few clauses that kept him in the seat over its running I was told.
Now if this is true idk.

Well, conceding that my interpretation has merit is an improvement over than comparing it to a fascist regime, so I can live with that

Yeah, I first got hooked on the Ultima series in the mid-80s because a couple of friends had Ultima 2 and Ultima 3 on their Apple computers.

We're definitely in agreement on the impact of EA on their acquisitions. And yeah, UO2 would have been great.

With Bioware, I was referring more to the general perception by fans of how the EA acquisition affected the quality of the games and the company's brand, which is similar to what I feel happened with Ultima. I think you're correct in that the Bioware founders likely had a much better deal than Garriott, though for whatever reason, they ended up leaving after a few years.

 

[Revenant]

And yeah, UO2 would have been great.

Here you and I disagree. (And nobody need defend Judas, he and I have known each other for most of the time he's been playing Ultima games…)

UO2 could have been great, absolutely. I loved the overall plan, fictionally and what little was announced game mechanics wise. But the scope was very grand, the time line insanely short, and the artifacts coming out of it were interesting but in no way showed that a fully formed MMORPG was mere months away.

It seemed to me at the time that they had the graphics and animation in reasonable shape, but if there was ever anything showing real combat, real crafting, or even a real location I sure didn't see it. Maybe they were intentionally not showing that, but given how we were supposed to ooh and aah over the motion capture videos they posted… that's hard to believe. To me, those motion capture videos were actually a negative: they were interesting, but I didn't see how they were going to make them adapt to game conditions and still look decent.

I think they were probably at least two years away from shipping anything. The emperor may have had clothes, but it was a stained loincloth at best.

My guess is that's why we lost UO2: Because someone did a detailed study of where they were and where they needed to get to, looked at the rate of progress, and coughed out a date in 2003. And that was just too much to justify. Classic second system effect.

 

[G.v.P]

EA is to blame for allowing WOW to sweep the entire MMO field into Blizzard's pocket [...]

Ok, so I have to agree with Lord Ron Fellows on the graphics, and I also think the blame is on Sony rather than EA that Blizzard took over with WoW. Origin had to get backed because they did not have the money or playerbase to fund themselves. Sony had a model to follow in UO and crafted two successful cash-in 3D MMORPGs before WoW was a thing. Sony should have been best able to continue that success. EA's Uo 2 was never a player possibly in part to Sony's overwhelming success. They called it EverCrack for a reason.

Here is the problem: EverQuest came out March of 1999. The notion of UO 2 to the public was September of 1999, with the idea that it would be completed in a year or two. A year or two. I am not sure when that video for UO 2 was compiled, but assuming it was September of 1999 or later, EverQuest already had about 6 months of live development at that time, and roughly 135,000 subs at that point, knocking the top MMORPG crown off UO for the first time since 1997. I am not sure if there is anything in that UO 2 video that looks too much better than EverQuest. By January of 2001, EverQuest was about 100,000 subs ahead of UO. Chained female elf box art sells, eh?

Trion, Scapes, someone!!! :) We need more servers. - Page 14

In addition to EverQuest setting the 3D bar, Asheron's Call further saturated the market in November of 1999, which must have made it difficult for EA to feel as if they could get their share while continuing support for UO. Meanwhile, UO did not have any Western 2D competitors and continued to grow due mostly to their in-game housing market--something no other MMORPG at that time challenged--and the success of UO: Renaissance. World of Warcraft came out in 2004; over that timeline, several successful games, such as Sony's Star Wars Galaxies, helped normalized MMORPG gaming, setting the stage for Blizzard to sweep up with their franchise name. EverQuest was dying at that point, then Star Wars Galaxies was squandered as they forced a major change on the skill tree. WoW came up, and all the Warcraft and Diablo fans gave up the cash-grab Sony franchises for a tag that brought them great games in the past.

Origin paved the way for Blizzard to have tremendous success in that Origin had no choice but to sell at that time because they could not support their product. By 2004, Blizzard could look at the success and failure of several MMORPGs, and their own success given their Battle.net subscriber base. Sony, IMHO, dropped the ball twice as many times given their early success as compared to EA's fumbles with UO. How do you **** up hot elves in chains or Star Wars?