I give up.

[MissEcho]

Ok on Oceania, been fishing up mibs for days now trying to get Kalens staff. (I had 40 mibs at the start of the process and figured that would be plenty) I am now up to 129 mibs fished up, for zip. I have 0 mibs now and basically give up.

It is the most soul destroying thing I have ever done. I want to be doing other parts of the arc here but frankly have gotten so pissed off with this whole moronic system that I seriously do not know if it is worth the aggravation. @Kyronix is this working as intended? That a person can fish up the staff on 1 (one) mib and others spend hour after hour after hour doing the same thing for nothing?

I am out of mibs now and none available to buy on the shard, I have purchased 200k worth of salvage hooks and gone through the process of spending hours chucking them into the water and killing the mobs to get more mibs.

I thought maybe the char was bugged, so went to iver's rounding and killed undead for the caretakers key which I got in 5 mins. I can't stone the fishing skill to another char as my fisher is 120 fishing skill and I don't have another 120 scroll to put the skill on another char.

If anyone on Ocenia can get one of these staff's please msg me.

I have never experienced anything that has pissed me off more in this game than this. I seriously wonder why anything is designed like this instead of there being a hard coded 'limit' (ie get it between 0-20 attempts) or something so that players can actually progress at reasonable speed through quests like this.

I have all the other bits to hand in but I am not gonna spend another minute on this and am totally over it.

 

[railshot]

I think the problem is with UO's RNG. It's not random. There is some artificial crap going on that forces it into streaks. I was one of the lucky ones that got that staff on the second MiB. But I did get the ugly side of UO's RNG on the Focus of Theury in Minoc. That thing is shown to have 30% success chance. I made 20-30 attempts before it worked.
Now, if you think - "well it's random, these things can happen...", I dare you to make a simple experiment. Pick up one 6-sided dice. Or just write numbers 1-6 on the side of the pencil. Start rolling it. See how long it will take you to make 20 rolls in a row without hitting either a 1 or a 2 (roughly equivalent to the reported success chance.). You'll be there for awhile.

 

[MalagAste]

I feel your pain @MissEcho and I feel for you... I am sorry but I don't have a fisher there and I gave the bulk of the rest of my MIBs to a friend.

 

[Jovi]

I have not used my tamer for the Titans yet, and I don't see anyone feeding back the best template to fight them.

However, you can safely use your tamer Mage to kill the Captains easily. Just to let you know that without the part 4 pagan titan slayer the tamer is still useful for now... I will try it against the titan later and hope it works. And if so, we don't need the slayer on weapons for warriors.

But I agree it's frustrating not being able to complete part 3. This is really bad!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MalagAste]

I have not used my tamer for the Titans yet, and I don't see anyone feeding back the best template to fight them.

However, you can safely use your tamer Mage to kill the Captains easily. Just to let you know that without the part 4 pagan titan slayer the tamer is still useful for now... I will try it against the titan later and hope it works. And if so, we don't need the slayer on weapons for warriors.

But I agree it's frustrating not being able to complete part 3. This is really bad!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Can't apply the Titan Slayer Property to my pet ...... so I just been using them to kill the mobs and bosses... I get looting rights without a problem and without the titan slayer.

 

[MissEcho]

I have not used my tamer for the Titans yet, and I don't see anyone feeding back the best template to fight them.

However, you can safely use your tamer Mage to kill the Captains easily. Just to let you know that without the part 4 pagan titan slayer the tamer is still useful for now... I will try it against the titan later and hope it works. And if so, we don't need the slayer on weapons for warriors.

But I agree it's frustrating not being able to complete part 3. This is really bad!


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I wont have problems doing the titans or the invasion part, don't even use the thing for that on siege where I completed two of the obelisks. I just want to complete the quest on Oceania and get the Obelisk for my rune library so that it is publically available to anyone who wants it and it is nice piece of deco to have going forward. However, I am just so pissed right now that having spent god, at least 20 hours on this I have nothing to show for it.

It is seriously POOR game design.

 

[BeaIank]

It is poor game design.
There should be at the very least a limit of mibs that you would go without fishing up the staff.
Didn't get it on the last 14? The 15th will be a guaranteed drop.

But no, let us make this a completely pointless grind.

 

[MalagAste]

It is poor game design.
There should be at the very least a limit of mibs that you would go without fishing up the staff.
Didn't get it on the last 14? The 15th will be a guaranteed drop.

But no, let us make this a completely pointless grind.

Why should this be any different than the other 95% of the game?

Frustrating and annoying... I must be a total masochist to keep playing... that's all I can say. But then I knew that when I started making more and more tamers...

 

[Jibbed]

I might have a few mins left that I can give you if your willing to go fish them up, otherwise I might try to get another toon to that stage during the week and see if I can get you a staff

 

[MissEcho]

I might have a few mins left that I can give you if your willing to go fish them up, otherwise I might try to get another toon to that stage during the week and see if I can get you a staff

I just got 19 off Sergio but right now my urge to fish em up anymore is at an all time low. I did 2 for another 2 fails, maybe tomorrow or the next day I don't know. It just seems pointless. I thought maybe i should try cancelling the quest and retaking it to maybe 'shock' it into giving me the damn thing on a 'reroll' of the quest but I think if I was to do that it would want another 130+ before it gave it up.

It is just too frustrating and upsetting right now to bother. I don't want 'easy' UO but I do want some semblance of a rational amount of input for reward, this is just totally stupid.

Thanks for the offer tho. If anyone on Oceania wants to have a go at getting it for me I would be grateful.

 

[BrianFreud]

@MissEcho, catch me on Oceania. I just transferred a staff down for you.

 

[MissEcho]

OK Brian you are the best! I will log in!

 

[MissEcho]

Well thanks very much to you Brian, I now have the Obelisk on my shop roof if anyone wants to use it who doesn't have one.

However, it shouldn't requre someone to have to take pity on me to get me something I have worked hours and hours for due to a borked quest system. Perhaps someone may take note of how frustrating this is and do something about it.

 

[Laura_Gold]

@Kyronix Don't make things random. Y' guys have pancaked the reward-to-effort ratio all to omelet.

 

[Cupid]

Well seems like I get one staff per 100 sos and it is streaky like everything else in game, I say that if you can find 25 more to fish up you will get 2 staff's in back to back chests


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[BrianFreud]

@Tina Small it'll take me a couple days getting a Balhae token to Chessie, then the staff to Balhae, but I'll have one on Balhae for you on Mon as well.

 

[Tina Small]

@Tina Small it'll take me a couple days getting a Balhae token to Chessie, then the staff to Balhae, but I'll have one on Balhae for you on Mon as well.

Thank you, Brian! I'll be putting it at my castle and will make it public so anyone can use it.

 

[THP]

i had to buy a staff too... but ksara thats modern UO i guess... always someone gonna make a buck out of someelses misfortunes

 

[Tyrath]

274 before I got one and have talked to people that went through over 300 mibs before getting one. Of course talked to a lot of people that got them in the first 20 and few that got it on their first fished up chest. Frustration is not a word that defines that part of the quest for some of us very well at all.

 

[Drakelord]

I do agree the rate is to low for this drop, and also like the idea that if you do not see one at 14 SOS #15 will be it. However, my drop rate was far lower last week, as I got 9 staff and was well under 200 SOSs for that week. Did not go fishing today since its Deal no Deal weekend, and tomorrow all shard net tossing on Sonoma (Sponsored by PAS) so it be Monday morning before I go fishing again

 

[GarthGrey]

Again, it's because this dev team doesn't actually "play" the game, otherwise they would know the endless frustrations in various aspects of everything lately.

 

[skett]

Like said before I enjoy fishing did over 200 sos

For those that hate fishing and having to do over 20 sos is just wrong on the very high end it should drop at 30 not over 100 or even more that's just wrong

 

[MalagAste]

Like said before I enjoy fishing did over 200 sos

For those that hate fishing and having to do over 20 sos is just wrong on the very high end it should drop at 30 not over 100 or even more that's just wrong

I enjoy fishing as well but after 200 fails to get something even the enjoyment is diminished and it starts to become frustrating and annoying.

 

[skett]

I totally agree

 

[Uvtha]

It is seriously POOR game design.

Yup. Really not sure what the thought process was here. Especially after all these horror stories.

 

[celticus]

I wont have problems doing the titans or the invasion part, don't even use the thing for that on siege where I completed two of the obelisks. I just want to complete the quest on Oceania and get the Obelisk for my rune library so that it is publically available to anyone who wants it and it is nice piece of deco to have going forward. However, I am just so pissed right now that having spent god, at least 20 hours on this I have nothing to show for it.

It is seriously POOR game design.

Forgive my ignorance : How do yu use the Obelisk? Is it something you port with? etc?

 

[afk]

Forgive my ignorance : How do yu use the Obelisk? Is it something you port with? etc?

You double click the little green gem on top and it gives the weap/spellbook you are carrying the pagan titan slayer property(till midnight), you can redo after sever up

 

[afk]

Curious what is the fishing skill levels of peep having problems? it just seems that the higher the fishing skill the lower the drop rate. I have 100 skill and got 5 staves with 120 mib's, i did on four char's2 casters and 2 tamers. tamers got nada with 60 sos's the casters got the 5 with 60 sos's

 

[BrianFreud]

Curious what is the fishing skill levels of peep having problems? it just seems that the higher the fishing skill the lower the drop rate. I have 100 skill and got 5 staves with 120 mib's, i did on four char's2 casters and 2 tamers. tamers got nada with 60 sos's the casters got the 5 with 60 sos's

I used a 120 fisher, pulled 14 with over 300 soses. So I don't think high skill hurt you...

 

[afk]

I used a 120 fisher, pulled 14 with over 300 soses. So I don't think high skill hurt you...

Well, could not do 300 sos's as i was going cross eyed at 120, although from the numbers you got and mine it seems 1 in 25 is likely the average for most peep

 

[MissEcho]

Well, could not do 300 sos's as i was going cross eyed at 120, although from the numbers you got and mine it seems 1 in 25 is likely the average for most peep

120 fishing here and 0 in 131 hence the reason for my post lol. I actually fish a LOT as I generally enjoy it, however a normal fishing outing would be around 5-20 mibs in any one session and that would be if they were clustered. That is enjoyable when you want a quiet day.

This is just ludicrous to put into a quest system at the reliance on the rng. Purely badly badly thought out unless they were gonna put some code in to ensure people didnt have to spend days and days for nothing.

 

[Jovi]

It should have the ggs, guaranteed gain system... after like 10 failure if still no gain then either improve the rng by another 50% chance or else just make it happen at 11th.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ShriNayne]

Used 100-120 mibs on a GM Fisher, got 11 staffs (staves?) some guildies were fishing for days and got nothing, one of them had 120 fishing, RNG seems very unfair on this part. Luckily some of us have insane luck to keep everyone else supplied.

 

[Mama Faith]

I'm still in the same boat as MissEcho. I have been fishing up SOS's since last Wednesday and still no staff. After going through over 60, I'd be ready to give up if it weren't for the fact that there are none for sale on Baja. Is the drop of the staff working as intended? Players have been asking me if I have the quest and if I'm fishing in Trammel. Yes, to all questions so it's down to the RNG just hates some of us. I'll give it one more day but then I'm out of MIBs. So frustrating.

Edit: Well, I'll be a monkey's aunt. 60+ SOS's and the staff finally dropped. I think I'm going to stone fishing and not look at a ship for a year.

 

[Longtooths]

Declare @int int = 1
Declare @Chance int = 0

While @int < 50
Set @Chance = RND(100)

Begin
Reward = case when @Chance = 1 then <Reward> Else <No Reward> END
Set @int = @int +1
END
GO

Reward = <Reward regardless after 50 attempts>

End Sub

 

[Mervyn]

 

[SadBunny]

 

[skett]

Well I need two more I hope the rng is in my favor tonight I just set sail

Have just under 300 sos left better be enough

 

[Kabraxis]

I think the problem is with UO's RNG. It's not random. There is some artificial crap going on that forces it into streaks. I was one of the lucky ones that got that staff on the second MiB. But I did get the ugly side of UO's RNG on the Focus of Theury in Minoc. That thing is shown to have 30% success chance. I made 20-30 attempts before it worked.
Now, if you think - "well it's random, these things can happen...", I dare you to make a simple experiment. Pick up one 6-sided dice. Or just write numbers 1-6 on the side of the pencil. Start rolling it. See how long it will take you to make 20 rolls in a row without hitting either a 1 or a 2 (roughly equivalent to the reported success chance.). You'll be there for awhile.

Well % chance is also implemented by the use of RNG, which makes streaks normal. Also the percent chance deviates from the 30%. The numbers behind 30% are probably 30/100 or 300/1000.

 

[railshot]

Well % chance is also implemented by the use of RNG, which makes streaks normal. Also the percent chance deviates from the 30%. The numbers behind 30% are probably 30/100 or 300/1000.

I am not sure I understand. Of course percent chance is implemented by RNG. It's a key part of its one and only functionality.
Percent chance is not supposed to deviate from 30% when it's set as 30%.
30/100 and 300/1000 should be identical for an RNG. If they aren't, it's broken. RNG is supposed to decide the fate of it's roll independently instead of checking "did I hit 300 out of 1000 or still ays to go". If it does not do it, it's broken.

 

[skett]

Well I got 1 after 17 best ever odds for me so far

 

[Tanivar]

After 17 years of the RNG's lack of love, I've decided there's some number generated in our account file when it's created that's used by the system for RNG and Luck calculations and the ones on my two accounts suck the fabled big time. 17 years of consistent evidence doesn't lie. The RNG ever breaks my way and I'll likely drop dead in shock...

 

[Kabraxis]

I am not sure I understand. Of course percent chance is implemented by RNG. It's a key part of its one and only functionality.
Percent chance is not supposed to deviate from 30% when it's set as 30%.
30/100 and 300/1000 should be identical for an RNG. If they aren't, it's broken. RNG is supposed to decide the fate of it's roll independently instead of checking "did I hit 300 out of 1000 or still ays to go". If it does not do it, it's broken.

The % is just a short way to display a fraction which is x/100. RNG indeed decides the fate of it's roll independently but the implementation always goes down to fraction. Let me give you an example how, i believe your chance to succeed in something is determined. As an example i am going to use the crafting of the quest item from part 3 of the event arc.

You pass the values of your skills to a method that returns you a number which will be your initial chance number. in this case the number is 5. You have a talisman that adds additional lets say 13% then the number 13 is added to your 5 and you end up with the number 18 which represents your final number.
Then when you attempt to craft the item a success check method is called and your number is being passed to it as a parameter and a check is performed and a success or a fail (true/false) is returned. Here is a sample simulation of how RNG works in this case it may not be the same as the one we are dealing with but the concept is the same. Play around with it to see that the there is actual deviation and streaks that evens out when the number of attempts increases.

So all things considered when the screen says X% you get X% the nature of RNG (which is based on this) makes it seems that is wrong but it is not. Also it is possible to get to 19 and even more attempts without succeeding or to get a success streak.

After 17 years of the RNG's lack of love, I've decided there's some number generated in our account file when it's created that's used by the system for RNG and Luck calculations and the ones on my two accounts suck the fabled big time. 17 years of consistent evidence doesn't lie. The RNG ever breaks my way and I'll likely drop dead in shock...

If there is a such number it is then highly exploitable so i do not think this is the case.

Edit: I have made some adjustments to the simulation just no to guarantee that it is 100% accurate

 

[railshot]

You pass the values of your skills to a method that returns you a number which will be your initial chance number. in this case the number is 5. You have a talisman that adds additional lets say 13% then the number 13 is added to your 5 and you end up with the number 18 which represents your final number.
Then when you attempt to craft the item a success check method is called and your number is being passed to it as a parameter and a check is performed and a success or a fail (true/false) is returned. Here is a sample simulation of how RNG works in this case it may not be the same as the one we are dealing with but the concept is the same. Play around with it to see that the there is actual deviation and streaks that evens out when the number of attempts increases.

That's pretty much how I understand it's supposed to work. On my specific case, that chance that is passed to the RNG function was 30%.

So all things considered when the screen says X% you get X% the nature of RNG (which is based on this) makes it seems that is wrong but it is not. Also it is possible to get to 19 and even more attempts without succeeding or to get a success streak.

Of course it's possible, however it's highly unlikely. Unless my math is wrong, with 1/3 chance of winning on each roll, getting 20 losers in a row is a 1 in 3,486,784,401 chance. That's an order of magnitude less likely than winning a top lottery prize. And yet, in UO we routinely get such streaks, which is what makes me think that the RNG sub is broken.

 

[Kabraxis]

That's pretty much how I understand it's supposed to work. On my specific case, that chance that is passed to the RNG function was 30%.

Of course it's possible, however it's highly unlikely. Unless my math is wrong, with 1/3 chance of winning on each roll, getting 20 losers in a row is a 1 in 3,486,784,401 chance. That's an order of magnitude less likely than winning a top lottery prize. And yet, in UO we routinely get such streaks, which is what makes me think that the RNG sub is broken.

The RNG can not be broken, C++ and pretty much every semi descent programming language has some sort of which obeys the same algorithm. It is not true RNG it is Pseudo RNG which means that the things we experience here, are expected and not abnormal at all.

 

[Pix]

Quick question ...

Can you use any old MIB ?

Like ones that are years old ?

 

[ShriNayne]

Mine were all old, some very old.

 

[Basara]

The RNG can not be broken, C++ and pretty much every semi descent programming language has some sort of which obeys the same algorithm. It is not true RNG it is Pseudo RNG which means that the things we experience here, are expected and not abnormal at all.

Except that we had a Dev TELL US 10 years ago that the Pseudo RNG was broken, after he examined the RNG in better detail. To paraphrase Draconi

Most games don't use the "programming language" RNGs - partially due to the faults with them. They typically use their own RNGs, which add in more steps to further randomize the results. However, if they use an existing RNG "engine", they might have to pay royalties for its use.

UO's RNG is a variation on a common (effectively public domain) Pseudo-RNG type that is often used as a programming assignment for 200-300 level college programming classes for CS majors. Variants also appear to be commonly used in a sizable number of Facebook games, since it was basically free to play with.

If samples are taken over millions, the raw results give the false appearance of a fair RNG.
Examining smaller periods of samples within the larger arc, though, shows where it fails. It tends to have small-scale streaks, but the streaks can happen at ANY point along the curve of results.
Therefore, When you take the usual number of samples to look for a bias, all the streaks tend to cancel out - but that doesn't help the guy who just failed 5 times in a row on a 99% smelt chance for an ore type, or gets hit 8 times in a row despite his attacker only having a 50% chance to hit. That something could go the other way at a later date as "balance" (in an unrelated field, usually) isn't consolation.

Draconi started investigating after we (several of us that were math or CS degree holders or pursuing those majors in college) told him of the anomalous results were seeing. He eventually found the root, and started developing a replacement RNG for UO, that he was testing in his spare time, and planned to bring up for testing as soon as the next development arc (Stygian Abyss/EC replacing Kingdom Reborn?) went live. Except, that's when EA laid him off, and he never had the chance.

 

[Schatzi]

I agree 100% with Miss Echo and also about the grind grind and RNG being borked...some of us have to work for a living and do not have the luxury to play all day...This arc has really made me rethink UO. If it were not for some friends that
can play all day a few of us in our guild would not even have part one done. I can only play a few hours a week if I'm lucky, so I'm guessing that this whole Titan damage thing to get a reward will probably be out of the question
for some of us unless I am understanding this part wrong. Ok, rant over... this could have been an awesome 20th Anniversary ARC if it had been
thought out better. But, I also understand there are only 4 or 5 people working on UO at the moment so have to forgive em for that. Oh well, Halloween is right around the corner...will be ready for that one.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Doesn't matter the size of the team...be it one person or 100.
Coming up with the grinds llike some of this has been is just, well, I don't have words I can think of that would work on stratics...