Shields

[Mervyn]

Currently, shields have a strength requirement relating to the type of shield, some a lot higher than others. I propose shields should drop the strength requirement and be replaced with a higher dex requirement as 80 dex is required to use them effeciently anyway.

This would assist new players who may not realise that dex is required to parry effectively.

 

[kelmo]

What would you use all those extra points for then?

 

[Mervyn]

Kelmo, I do not understand the question sorry.

 

[Uvtha]

Currently, shields have a strenght requirement relating to the type of shield, some a lot higher than others. I propose shields should drop the strength requirement and be replaced with a higher dex requirement as 80 dex is required to use them effeciently anyway.

This would assist new players who may not realise that dex is required to parry effectively.

Makes sense. Though, I don't know that many non casters use shields.

 

[Tyrath]

Pick up a buckler IRL and then Pick up a Wall Shield and it does not take long to discover strength REALLY matter when holding a shield.

 

[Deraj]

And yet, there is no functional difference between a buckler and a heater shield in terms of game mechanics (which I find unfortunate).

 

[Tyrath]

And yet, there is no functional difference between a buckler and a heater shield in terms of game mechanics (which I find unfortunate).

In theory each shield going up the scale should have a higher DCI with a buckler being maybe 5% and a heater topping out at maybe 30% Not sure where chaos and order shields should fall since they a left over from a long dead system.

Edit: I forgot to put the lighter the shield the better the dex plays into it, the heavier the shield the more the str plays into it. With a mid tier shield being the optimal balance between str and dex.

 

[Merus]

Sorry to vote no on this one... less complexity is what we need, not more.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Sorry to vote no on this one... less complexity is what we need, not more.

+1 on this idea!

 

[Mervyn]

I was after less complexity..., i don't like hidden features available only to veteran players, if it said on the shield 80 dex required, that would surely make it less complex?

 

[Pawain]

Currently, shields have a strength requirement relating to the type of shield, some a lot higher than others. I propose shields should drop the strength requirement and be replaced with a higher dex requirement as 80 dex is required to use them effeciently anyway.

This would assist new players who may not realise that dex is required to parry effectively.

So, you want mages to have dexterity now? Mine has 25. Mages use the shield for properties not blocking.

 

[skett]

I have to admit only fighting class should be able to use shields
But they need to make some sorta left hand use wand or one handed staff that mages cab use to help with the property's on the items

But then again isn't this game already overwhelming with items and property's lol

 

[Fridgster]

Eh. Just no real reason to change something thats been like this since the start. Bigger fish to fry than this.

 

[Great DC]

Shields should be disarmable!!!!

 

[Great DC]

Also weight on shields should be like 200 stones at least if not more. Ill just let this stir a bit.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Shields are messed up anyway.
Huge volume of good shields drop, but no-one uses them.

Main class that should be using them - Warrior's - Don't because they are all Bushido - no pure's exist anyway.
IMO, Bandage healing should be buffed to equal that of Sampire healing, then pure warriors would get more usage, and shields would get used.

Mages - who don't want to be using shields, are actually forced to use them a. for stats or b. for parry.
If you are a pure mage (without parry), this change would wipe you out on the stats side - so as I've been requesting for years anyway - an off-hand globe for pure mages please, so they don't have to wear something as unattractive as a warriors shield. Make it craftable by tinker scribes.

After all of the above, sure, change shields to a combination of Dex/Str.

 

[Mervyn]

I'm slowly trying to make the game more user friendly for new players, for when the pendulum swings the other way, and a fel only shard opens and attracts better gamers.

 

[Pawain]

I'm slowly trying to make the game more user friendly for new players, for when the pendulum swings the other way, and a fel only shard opens and attracts better gamers.

Dont all the regular shards have Fel? Cant they just pick a shard and play on Fel? Why would you need a Fel only Shard?

Also we tried that in Sept '97. Fel ran the populace away.

 

[Spartan]

Shields should be able to be used as a bashing weapon. Historically, the Romans used theirs along with pikes or gladius to maul enemy. There are instances where shields with bosses (the pointy things on them) were used to smack someone before the sword stroke.

Just adding more fuel to the fire for change. <shrug>

 

[Mervyn]

they can, it's called shield bash...

 

[Mervyn]

The mechanics of this game need to be made clearer for new players. Changing the strength requirement to a dex requirement would simplify the game. Also adding armour inherent bonuses to armour. The devs done a good job with the buffs/debuffs. Let us maintain a high standard.

 

[Spartan]

they can, it's called shield bash...

which currently requires a mastery to obtain. It should be inherent in the item base properties/usage ... not something that a new player has to grind (even more so) to get.

 

[Merlin]

Leave shields as is.

 

[Pawain]

The mechanics of this game need to be made clearer for new players. Changing the strength requirement to a dex requirement would simplify the game. Also adding armour inherent bonuses to armour. The devs done a good job with the buffs/debuffs. Let us maintain a high standard.

So to make things easier for new players, they will have to make orbs for magic users to equip? Mages dont need dex. Warriors need Strength.

Changing shields makes nothing easier for new players.

 

[Acid Rain]

... a fel only shard opens and attracts better gamers.

That seriously made me LOL. I guess 'better gamers' is a subjective term, hahahaha.
I just don't consider players automating every aspect of PvP by using illegal programs a 'better gamer'. LOL
Learning how to place fields is a LOT harder when ur not looking at colored squares.
(Which is generally why BAD players use these programs)

Changing the strength requirement to a dex requirement would simplify the game.

It would just replace one requirement for another, simplifying nothing. If you want simple, they need to stop putting un-Godly amounts of crap
on corpses, in treasure chests, and the like. I'd rather have 20 items to poke through then 120. When I spend more time (cumulative) searching
corpses then playing the game..... I call BS on it.

 

[Mervyn]

I don't think you understand how parrying works. You know you need 80 dex to parry right? this is a hidden game mechanic.

 

[Merus]

I don't think you understand how parrying works. You know you need 80 dex to parry right? this is a hidden game mechanic.

Parry is a skill though, not a piece of equipment.

Almost every template in UO utilizes at least 100 strength, but only dexxers and parry mages really utilize dex. Making shields require high dex to equip is going to exclude a ton of templates that only utilize a shield for extra mods.

 

[Lord Arm]

I see no reason to change at this time. too many other important areas/issues should be worked on.

 

[Mervyn]

Parry is a skill though, not a piece of equipment.

Almost every template in UO utilizes at least 100 strength, but only dexxers and parry mages really utilize dex. Making shields require high dex to equip is going to exclude a ton of templates that only utilize a shield for extra mods.

can you name one example please? As all players would be subject to the same rules.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

can you name one example please? As all players would be subject to the same rules.

Your mage?

 

[Mervyn]

Personally, i have only one mage that carries a shield, who does have 80 dex. It's why i'm interested to know just one of the "ton of templates"

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Personally, i have only one mage that carries a shield, who does have 80 dex. It's why i'm interested to know just one of the "ton of templates"

How come you have Dex?
You don't, or didn't until recently have Parry?

Ok, my Mage - A Pure Mage.
Non Parry Mages, who want to invest their stats, into Str for HP, and Int for Mana,
Mystic Mages, same thing.
Any type of Mage, except a Parry Mage, you would be nerfing them all, I already mentioned it above.

 

[Pawain]

Personally, i have only one mage that carries a shield, who does have 80 dex. It's why i'm interested to know just one of the "ton of templates"

Why would a PvM mage have dex? Spells are cast at a distance. The most common Taming template is a Magic using tamer. You dont think there are a ton of tamers? Have you ever been to an EM event?

 

[Deraj]

Here's an idea. Remove all shield strength requirements. Replace with a dex rating that is different for each shield, ex. a buckler has the lowest dex rating, heater shield has the highest. The dex rating determines how much dex is required to attain maximum blocking capacity for a shield. The block chance will vary with the dex requirement - so while a buckler for example would have the lowest dex rating, it would have the lowest max block chance since the dex rating is easier to acquire. The heater shield on the other hand would have the highest attainable block chance but also require the most dex to achieve.

 

[Merus]

can you name one example please? As all players would be subject to the same rules.

My disco tamer wears a shield for the extra resists and mana regen. She runs about 40 dex and 125 str. If you require high dex to equip a shield she can't wear one without dropping her intel to add dex.

 

[Mervyn]

but most of the mods you're getting from a shield, you can also get on weapons/spellbook.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

but most of the mods you're getting from a shield, you can also get on weapons/spellbook.

But a Spellbook can be disarmed in PvP, are you being deliberately stupid?

 

[Mervyn]

I can see how a pure mage would use a shield for mods yes. Still not convinced on a tamer using a shield...

 

[Mervyn]

but like whatever, if you're a pure mage you'd instead just have no shield... it's not like you can't make up the mods on other pieces with all the legendaries..Everyone would be in the same boat.

 

[Pawain]

I can see how a pure mage would use a shield for mods yes. Still not convinced on a tamer using a shield...

So a mage tamer should just have an open hand? A shield fits nicely. What does a magic using tamer do? They put the pet on a target and sit back and cast spells from a distance. The best weapon is a spellbook which needs one hand. They dont need to drink pots. Im sure you know this already. Stand by Luna stable and see what the tamers have in their hands.

2 main tamer templates. Magic using tamer and Bard tamer. Neither need dex.

There is a way to be a battle tamer if you desire. Most dont.

 

[Mervyn]

okay if you want to utilise both hands (for lord knows whatever reason) you could still carry a 2 handed weapon with lots of mods on. I don't understand the drastic need for a player without parrying to carry a shield...

 

[Merus]

but most of the mods you're getting from a shield, you can also get on weapons/spellbook.

Yup, and all of my characters have two hands. My disco tamer holds a spellbook (usually a TOLK for the magery skill boost) and a shield. That setup is also used for all of my bards (something in both hands). By requiring 80 dex for a piece of equipment when the dex requirement is really related to the parry skill, it robs those extra mods from every low dex template.

 

[Mervyn]

yea but what mods are you really utilising? surely you're capped out in every single possible mod with legendaries already

 

[MalagAste]

but most of the mods you're getting from a shield, you can also get on weapons/spellbook.

But you can only carry one or the other... so no that's a non-answer...

You can't carry both a weapon and a spellbook... However you CAN carry a weapon and a shield or a Spellbook and a shield.

 

[BrianFreud]

I can see how a pure mage would use a shield for mods yes. Still not convinced on a tamer using a shield...

How about my tamer mage?

 

[skett]

Same here tamer mage

120 mage
120 eval
120 Med
120 taming
120 lore
115.8 vet (very very slow gains)

He always has two shields one mostly luck other for stats

And thanks to Tyrath I have a good pet finale

 

[Merus]

yea but what mods are you really utilising? surely you're capped out in every single possible mod with legendaries already

Soul charge
Damage eaters
LMC
Mana and Hit Point Regen
Luck

Those are properties that I use on all my shields for those kinds of characters. Might it be possible to max all those with legendary other pieces, could be but it gets particularly hard when you need to work in other artis for their special properties (like high luck or SDI).

Changing a piece of equipment that can be useful to so many different templates because 1 skill has a high dex requirement doesn't add up to me. And I don't think it simplifies anything.

 

[Uvtha]

Here's an idea. Remove all shield strength requirements. Replace with a dex rating that is different for each shield, ex. a buckler has the lowest dex rating, heater shield has the highest. The dex rating determines how much dex is required to attain maximum blocking capacity for a shield. The block chance will vary with the dex requirement - so while a buckler for example would have the lowest dex rating, it would have the lowest max block chance since the dex rating is easier to acquire. The heater shield on the other hand would have the highest attainable block chance but also require the most dex to achieve.

I think an idea like this makes sense. I personally feel that a warrior with a parry and a heater should be top dog in terms of tanking.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Soul charge
Damage eaters
LMC
Mana and Hit Point Regen
Luck

Those are properties that I use on all my shields for those kinds of characters. Might it be possible to max all those with legendary other pieces, could be but it gets particularly hard when you need to work in other artis for their special properties (like high luck or SDI).

Changing a piece of equipment that can be useful to so many different templates because 1 skill has a high dex requirement doesn't add up to me. And I don't think it simplifies anything.

This is the list for you Mervyn, was going to do it myself.
a. No I'm not already capped out on legendaries.
b. Shields can be crafted, and customised to fit your suit - Spellbooks cannot.

As you already know, offhands cannot be disarmed, main hands can, so if you had stats on a mainhand, you'd lose half your stats in a fight.
You keep one hand free for potions usage - so naturally this is the main hand normally.
The only time I use a Spellbook, is in pure PvM for the SDI, then I drop potion usage.

The big one - the list above didn't even mention Soul Charge 30% - as a Pure Mage, I'm designed for casting, I want my mana regens - you don't get this on a mainhand/spellbook.
DCI can be overcapped to 20 on a shield.
Reactive Paralyse is possible on a shield - though granted more useful to parry mages.


The solution as I see it, and have been pushing for years - see my first post on Stratics in April - is to design an Offhand Globe for Mages.
You can base the Offhand Globe on Intelligence, then swap shields over to Dex.
Mages get the Globe for the Stats, and it looks a whole lot better from an RP perspective - I don't like wearing a shield anyway, hated when they first brought in the requirement for a Mage to wear a shield for Stats - still do.
The Globe would have exactly all the Stats and capabilities of a Shield, just look better on a Mage, and can fit your proposal also.


I have got no issues you swapping Shields over to Dex, but you have to recognise you are nerfing Pure Mages again, and you have to have a fix for them.

 

[Mervyn]

so you would lost the ability to utilise your shield as a talisman? so what, it's not being used as it's purpose anyways. I also happen to think you should require archery to use the quivers.