New Taming Publish Has Old Tamer Very Freaked Out

[Silent Singer]

*accidentally posted this in Siege forum because I was stressing out and overlooked where I was, sorry*

I just came from TC1 and a conversation with Kyronix. I noticed a unicorn had a base slot of 3, and Kyronix said pet slots will be based off each pets relative power, so a good unicorn may start at a slot higher than a bad one.

My obvious next question was a panicked, What about existing pets?

Kyronix said that if you use the new pet revamp training on an existing pet, the system will change its follower slots based on its attributes, then increase from there.

So for example, my Dreadmare is a very high end pet, stat wise. If I use the new system with it, it will automatically shift above 3 slots to 4, then as I use the new system move to 5.

So I now cannot use the Dread with a Bake.

However, if I don't use the new system, my Dread will now not have access to the new skills. If you haven't seen them, pets can now train in Stat Regen, and skills like Necromancy, Spellweaving, Bushido, etc depending on type.

SO a Nightmare that utilizes the new system can potentially destroy my old pet in combat.

Basically, the hours and hours I've spent trying to collect high end versions of each slot-range of pets over the years is invalidated. My stables are full. Either I train my existing pets in the new system, destroying the existing calculus of pet-slot combinations they are built around -OR- I empty my stables and train new pets.

This isn't a Devs effed up post. I don't think they even considered this aspect of it. I'm just very bummed because I was quite vocal to please take into consideration pre-revamp pets when making the new system.

But faced with the option of either:

1. Clear out existing stables of pets to use the new system,
or
2. Use new system with existing pets and discard the slot-relationships they are built around,
or
3. Begin training entirely new tamers with empty stables,
or
4. Do nothing, do not get to utilize the revamp, and have pets that are weaker than all new pets,

I don't see how the new system addresses this.

Taming is the #1 activity I've spent time in UO on over the last 16 years, by a wide margin. I have more tamers than all other types combined. The idea of a pet revamp was very exciting, because there are tons of new pets folks have asked for for years. But changing the fundamental strucutre of pet ownership (follower slots) in this way is definitely NOT what I had hoped.

I just don't even know what to say here, I'm just venting. The new skill trees look cool for sure, I just have the feeling that unless I train up a new tamer (by deleting an existing character) I won't get to utilize it.

And on Siege, there is only 1 character allowed, meaning a very hard limit on what can be stabled. I'm at max already there. My only options are to get rid of some nice pets, or completely alter their utility by changing slots.

*wrings hands*

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

Edit: And yes, I would have to get rid of existing pets if new pets were introduced, but the assumption was that new pets in each slot would be more useful IN THAT SLOT than older pets, so potentially I lose a Tiger or Nightmare but replace it with another utility pet AT THE SAME SLOT level. By creating a sliding scale of follower slots that doesn't work.

 

[Drakelord]

Sonoma is the only shard I have a dread on, so I am a little concern there as it's my favor to ride. I have a lot of tamers across several other shards, even Siege so I do see the concern there. I will be paying close attention to TC1 and copy over tamers from shards to check stats and options

 

[MalagAste]

Oh I have many, many concerns and like you @Silent Singer I have a LOT of tamers... more tamers than anything else. So yes I am very concerned and giving us more stuff to tame without giving more slots is a kick in the face... there are some of my pets that I just can't part with I don't care what you give me to add ...... they are beloved friends and I'm not about to just kick them to the curb because you added something new and shinny...... and honestly it's going to seriously irk many tamers to have to throw out beloved pets just to get new ones.

 

[Aibal]

This is exactly what I was afraid would happen. Use the new option, or your former stable of pets become inferior. I have spent many, many years obtaining the highest end pets I could....1000's of hours spent doing that and now either get rid of them or bring in the new. If this publish goes live like this it may be time to call it. On my main tamer (of 14 Legendary tamers on two accounts) I have assembled a stable of pets I would put against any. And now they'll be next to worthless because the slots relative to power are borked. Great job!

 

[Silent Singer]

I'm going to throw the ol' @Kyronix here and see if he can address our concerns.

 

[Kyronix]

I'm going to throw the ol' @Kyronix here and see if he can address our concerns.

We'll be on TC1 all evening, pop over and we can have a chat about it! Cheers!

 

[Aibal]

@Kryronix....be there to keep telling us how great it is without taking into account anything said above??? It will be the usual "this is AWESOME...tamers have wanted it...blah, blah, blah. I now either upgrade to the "new, awesome, fantastical" system, or my pets short of GD's become obsolete. It messes with every tamers favorite combos (yeah, news flash we don't ALL use GD's all the time) and creates a myriad of new tameables (very cool) that we don't have slots for because we're still hampered by an antiquated system that limits pet stable slots when there is absolutely no need for it.....

 

[Merlin]

Leave the number of pet control slots as is.

 

[Aibal]

Leave the number of pet control slots as is.

Agreed. So make the new system work within that context.

 

[Lord Nabin]

You just got a very nice and great invite to discuss the changes by a Dev and in game.

Seems to me like you can't get a better chance to be heard and effect some changes.

@Kyronix Thanks for engaging and working with the community on this. I know a lot have been looking forward to some changes. I appreciate the interactive approach.

 

[Silent Singer]

Nabin, I did speak with him about this topic. In game. No solution was offered.

 

[Uriah Heep]

It will be okay.

What could possibly go wrong??...

 

[Kyronix]

Nabin, I did speak with him about this topic. In game. No solution was offered.

We didn't really get a chance to chat about it, I had asked a follow up question but you had logged off (assuming the character I was talking to was indeed you!) I'll be on TC1 for the next couple hours, stop by again and we discuss your concerns in greater detail. Hopefully see you there!

 

[GarthGrey]

I read the notes, sort of, does this mean that with enough work put in, you could have a 5 slot spellweaving necro sewer rat ? If so that be pretty epic.

 

[Pawain]

Nabin, I did speak with him about this topic. In game. No solution was offered.

Just talked to Kyronix. He said the goal is to have the best GD still be the best pet. Your stabled pets will be no different than a newly found pet with the same stats. The good stat 5 slot pets cant be trained either way.

So, good luck to the devs on keeping the GD at the top of the food chain. It wont be long until people will find the best setups for their pets. I have faith that the players will cause some nerfs.

 

[Lady Michelle]

*accidentally posted this in Siege forum because I was stressing out and overlooked where I was, sorry*

I just came from TC1 and a conversation with Kyronix. I noticed a unicorn had a base slot of 3, and Kyronix said pet slots will be based off each pets relative power, so a good unicorn may start at a slot higher than a bad one.

My obvious next question was a panicked, What about existing pets?

Kyronix said that if you use the new pet revamp training on an existing pet, the system will change its follower slots based on its attributes, then increase from there.

So for example, my Dreadmare is a very high end pet, stat wise. If I use the new system with it, it will automatically shift above 3 slots to 4, then as I use the new system move to 5.

So I now cannot use the Dread with a Bake.

However, if I don't use the new system, my Dread will now not have access to the new skills. If you haven't seen them, pets can now train in Stat Regen, and skills like Necromancy, Spellweaving, Bushido, etc depending on type.

SO a Nightmare that utilizes the new system can potentially destroy my old pet in combat.

Basically, the hours and hours I've spent trying to collect high end versions of each slot-range of pets over the years is invalidated. My stables are full. Either I train my existing pets in the new system, destroying the existing calculus of pet-slot combinations they are built around -OR- I empty my stables and train new pets.

This isn't a Devs effed up post. I don't think they even considered this aspect of it. I'm just very bummed because I was quite vocal to please take into consideration pre-revamp pets when making the new system.

But faced with the option of either:

1. Clear out existing stables of pets to use the new system,
or
2. Use new system with existing pets and discard the slot-relationships they are built around,
or
3. Begin training entirely new tamers with empty stables,
or
4. Do nothing, do not get to utilize the revamp, and have pets that are weaker than all new pets,

I don't see how the new system addresses this.

Taming is the #1 activity I've spent time in UO on over the last 16 years, by a wide margin. I have more tamers than all other types combined. The idea of a pet revamp was very exciting, because there are tons of new pets folks have asked for for years. But changing the fundamental strucutre of pet ownership (follower slots) in this way is definitely NOT what I had hoped.

I just don't even know what to say here, I'm just venting. The new skill trees look cool for sure, I just have the feeling that unless I train up a new tamer (by deleting an existing character) I won't get to utilize it.

And on Siege, there is only 1 character allowed, meaning a very hard limit on what can be stabled. I'm at max already there. My only options are to get rid of some nice pets, or completely alter their utility by changing slots.

*wrings hands*

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

Edit: And yes, I would have to get rid of existing pets if new pets were introduced, but the assumption was that new pets in each slot would be more useful IN THAT SLOT than older pets, so potentially I lose a Tiger or Nightmare but replace it with another utility pet AT THE SAME SLOT level. By creating a sliding scale of follower slots that doesn't work.

Need more stable slots for the new tamable s maybe 123 more for all of us. Why should any of us have to give up our old pets to get new ones.

 

[Sir_Bolo]

Kyronix said that if you use the new pet revamp training on an existing pet, the system will change its follower slots based on its attributes, then increase from there.

So for example, my Dreadmare is a very high end pet, stat wise. If I use the new system with it, it will automatically shift above 3 slots to 4, then as I use the new system move to 5.

So I now cannot use the Dread with a Bake.

However, if I don't use the new system, my Dread will now not have access to the new skills. If you haven't seen them, pets can now train in Stat Regen, and skills like Necromancy, Spellweaving, Bushido, etc depending on type.

SO a Nightmare that utilizes the new system can potentially destroy my old pet in combat.

Look at the other side of the coin: your untrained legacy high-end dread warhorse won't have any special abilities, but it should have higher stats than a trained 3-slot pet under the new system.
So your old warhorse might still be able to destroy that trained 3-slot nightmare. Maybe worth a test fight on TC...

Of course, your untrained warhorse will probably lose to a nightmare trained to 4 slots. But it will still cost only 3 slots to control, so you can make better pet combos.
Again worth testing...

Anyway, hopefully the devs will consider doubling the number of stable slots for everyone, so that old tamers can try out the new system on new pets before messing up with their old pets.

 

[Bobar]

Firstly i have to admit that I do not play much these days but having said that my position is - I have one tamer with a full stable, many, indeed most of my pets have been with me for years the oldest being a Ki-Rin i tamed years ago when my tamer first started. I have no intention of discarding these to introduce a set of new ones. The revamp is ok I guess for some, perhaps many, but it is not for me, it is already dead in the water. I find the game becoming more and more complicated and a new set of training techniques I will live without.

 

[Scribbles]

Im glad im not the only one scared about these changes. The pvp imbalances alone are scary... How about you give Reds an extra pet slot to balance some of this out. #redlivesmatter #imtoooldtolearnanewsystem

 

[GarthGrey]

I read the notes, sort of, does this mean that with enough work put in, you could have a 5 slot spellweaving necro sewer rat ? If so that be pretty epic.

Someone answer my question !!! I am , after , "A Player on Siege".

 

[Llewen]

This is the biggest change to the game since AoS. Bigger than imbuing imho. It completely destroys my playstyle, my way of making gold, everything.

Having said that, I'm excited, and I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be a challenge to balance this, but the potential for fun is huge.

One thing people need to be aware of, has to do with your old high value pets. If you don't switch them to the new system, they will be "prepatch and overcap" in terms of slots. ie., you will have pets that take a certain number of slots, that under the new system, if you switch them, will take more slots.

As far as pvp goes, it appears that the slot caps are pretty tight. You will be able to customize pets, but it won't be easy, and you won't be able to make pets invincible and unkillable. And what I've heard is that five slot pets won't be rideable, which is probably for the best.

In the words of the immortal Zaphod Beeblebrox, "DON'T PANIC!" This is going to be fun.

 

[Llewen]

I read the notes, sort of, does this mean that with enough work put in, you could have a 5 slot spellweaving necro sewer rat ? If so that be pretty epic.

No. One slot pets can only be built up to three slots. I had the same question.

 

[Uvtha]

So, good luck to the devs on keeping the GD at the top of the food chain. It wont be long until people will find the best setups for their pets. I have faith that the players will cause some nerfs.

I think it can stay the tankiest, but armor ignore alone is gonna make a big difference in damage output. Guess it just depends on what you want. I'd love to test stuff out, but as of right now leveling up pets is not working.

 

[Uvtha]

So your old warhorse might still be able to destroy that trained 3-slot nightmare. Maybe worth a test fight on TC...

I'm interested to see how the trained vs raw pets of same control slots compare.

 

[Uvtha]

I read the notes, sort of, does this mean that with enough work put in, you could have a 5 slot spellweaving necro sewer rat ? If so that be pretty epic.

Sadly no rats can learn magic. Dire wolves however (for whatever reason) can learn necro, so might try that instead, though they are limited to 3 slots. Still gonna try it out.

So are Dark Wolves, which seem to be coming back, and I'm excited about that.

 

[Laura_Gold]

I want more stable spaces, pretty please with sugar on it.

 

[Nexus]

So are Dark Wolves, which seem to be coming back, and I'm excited about that.

I thought everyone had one of those tucked away....

 

[Uvtha]

I thought everyone had one of those tucked away....

I did a million years ago, but it, the silversteed and silver wolf got deleted somehow.

I do have one of those yellow giant rats from the cavern of the discarded that were tamable for a little bit..

 

[MalagAste]

I did a million years ago, but it, the silversteed and silver wolf got deleted somehow.

I do have one of those yellow giant rats from the cavern of the discarded that were tamable for a little bit..

Somewhere tucked away I have 4 or 5 of them I think... but I can't remember where I tucked them... (the Plague Rats)

 

[MissEcho]

I took one look at the list of stuff in the 'no spoiler' thread on the new pet taming and got a headache just looking at it. I guess it is gonna require a whole bunch of new spreadsheets and without the stable slots available it will be just another over complicated mess. If they increased the stable slots to be like all containers (ie up to 125 pets in storage) you could tame stuff, work it up , see how it worked out before deciding what to keep, what works etc etc and experiment with a whole range of stuff. Without the stable slots, it is just a huge waste of time and effort, as most people are not gonna dump out trained pets to be able to 'test' stuff. I for one can barely move on the test centre so that is not an option, plus, don't want to waste my few playing hours working stuff up on a shard that I can't actually use in game. Think this is looking like another huge overcomplicated system.

 

[MalagAste]

I took one look at the list of stuff in the 'no spoiler' thread on the new pet taming and got a headache just looking at it. I guess it is gonna require a whole bunch of new spreadsheets and without the stable slots available it will be just another over complicated mess. If they increased the stable slots to be like all containers (ie up to 125 pets in storage) you could tame stuff, work it up , see how it worked out before deciding what to keep, what works etc etc and experiment with a whole range of stuff. Without the stable slots, it is just a huge waste of time and effort, as most people are not gonna dump out trained pets to be able to 'test' stuff. I for one can barely move on the test centre so that is not an option, plus, don't want to waste my few playing hours working stuff up on a shard that I can't actually use in game. Think this is looking like another huge overcomplicated system.

My thoughts as well without extra stable slots I'm rather disgusted... I don't want to give up beloved pets... Also.... with the grind that is added in training the pet... It'll be MONTHS before a pet is ready for use... with normal gameplay... Most of us aren't sitting at home all day powergaming.... some of us work for a living.... raise families... we can't sit here powergaming up pet training in a week.. It'll be MONTHS... and honestly ..... I doubt the game will survive long enough for anything serious to come of all of the changes. Not to mention I'm willing to bet that PvP balance will nerf the crap out of anything remotely useful within the first 3 months of it going live.

 

[Drowy]

They are actually traing to find out what should be the right amount of time for finishing the training of the pet. Actually i would say its way to slow. It shouldnt be done in no time, but when you kill stuff over and over and dont see any progress there is something wrong in the system.

 

[Uvtha]

I took one look at the list of stuff in the 'no spoiler' thread on the new pet taming and got a headache just looking at it. I guess it is gonna require a whole bunch of new spreadsheets and without the stable slots available it will be just another over complicated mess. If they increased the stable slots to be like all containers (ie up to 125 pets in storage) you could tame stuff, work it up , see how it worked out before deciding what to keep, what works etc etc and experiment with a whole range of stuff. Without the stable slots, it is just a huge waste of time and effort, as most people are not gonna dump out trained pets to be able to 'test' stuff. I for one can barely move on the test centre so that is not an option, plus, don't want to waste my few playing hours working stuff up on a shard that I can't actually use in game. Think this is looking like another huge overcomplicated system.

Doesn't really seem complicated at at all to me. It's just imbuing for pets, and imbuing is pretty straight forward, certainly doesn't require a spreadsheet, then again nothing does. Level up, get some points, buy some stats or abilities with the points. That's it.

I do agree we need a better way to test it than having a GM boost them when they are around. There should also must be a way to "reset" your pet. Stable slots are so limited that you will eventually have to cycle out pets, which many people will not be happy with. You should just be able to wipe a pet's training at the stable for x gold.

 

[Mervyn]

So, if they introduce new pets, why does it affect you?

If you want to train up a new pet, train up a new pet.
If you don't, then don't.

You want some sort of legacy implementation to make sure you continue to have the best of everything....

I really can't beleive trammel players sometimes, constantly trying to ruin the game for everyone.

 

[Nexus]

There should also must be a way to "reset" your pet.

From my understanding that's not in the plans, but you're right it should be. People can, do, and will continue to go out and be selective about their fresh tames looking for the better spawns to tame initially. Not allowing us to remove or reset a pet makes this even more of a grind than training them is looking like it will be.

 

[Fridgster]

I really can't beleive trammel players sometimes, constantly trying to ruin the game for everyone.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Uvtha]

From my understanding that's not in the plans, but you're right it should be. People can, do, and will continue to go out and be selective about their fresh tames looking for the better spawns to tame initially. Not allowing us to remove or reset a pet makes this even more of a grind than training them is looking like it will be.

I don't even mind the grind, so long as I don't have to essentially... kill my pet to try out a new combo idea. Irrational, sure, but that's how it is. My stable is full, and I've had most of these guys for 10 years or so now. :/

I still don't understand the low stable slots. It never made any sense to me.

 

[skett]

Right now I think the max stable is 21 or 22
I just went and bought taming vet and lore 120 ps to put on other char so he can store my pets I realize
I'll have to rebond them thought

40 stable slots would be nice

 

[Uvtha]

Right now I think the max stable is 21 or 22
I just went and bought taming vet and lore 120 ps to put on other char so he can store my pets I realize
I'll have to rebond them thought

40 stable slots would be nice

100 would be nice. 200 would be nice. Why does it matter? That's always my question.

 

[MalagAste]

100 would be nice. 200 would be nice. Why does it matter? That's always my question.

Like I said any dexer can have as many weapons as his heart desires.... they simply take up lockdowns ..... But a tamer???? No restricted not only to 5 slots... ie bringing only 1 or 2 weapons to a fight... (whereas anyone else can bring as many as their backpack allows).... but they are further subjected to only being allowed to store 20 to 24 in the stable.... otherwise if they want more they have to pay HUGE fees and store them on a vendor in New Magincia and overprice them to no end hoping no one buys them. Or they can simply make more tamers but then if you have one account you can't trade yourself your own pets so you have to have more accounts and then like someone else pointed out you have to rebond them... Either paying RL money to get a pet bond potion or wait a week..... does an archer wait a week for his weapon???? NO.

It's silly.

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

I did a little thread clean-up. Lets keep the posts on topic and not personal and lets not turn this into another fel vs tram thread, it affects all play styles.

 

[skett]

Like I said any dexer can have as many weapons as his heart desires.... they simply take up lockdowns ..... But a tamer???? No restricted not only to 5 slots... ie bringing only 1 or 2 weapons to a fight... (whereas anyone else can bring as many as their backpack allows).... but they are further subjected to only being allowed to store 20 to 24 in the stable.... otherwise if they want more they have to pay HUGE fees and store them on a vendor in New Magincia and overprice them to no end hoping no one buys them. Or they can simply make more tamers but then if you have one account you can't trade yourself your own pets so you have to have more accounts and then like someone else pointed out you have to rebond them... Either paying RL money to get a pet bond potion or wait a week..... does an archer wait a week for his weapon???? NO.

It's silly.

These are valid points
Only concern I would have is, let say I bring 10 GD and a few other pets to fight wouldn't that be a bit over powered ?
Picture em events with bots having 100 pets

Seems like there needs to be some sorta balance

 

[MalagAste]

These are valid points
Only concern I would have is, let say I bring 10 GD and a few other pets to fight wouldn't that be a bit over powered ?
Picture em events with bots having 100 pets

Seems like there needs to be some sorta balance

I'm not saying I need more than a GD... I'd like to be able to switch pets like people swap weapons.... is that so terrible? Make it take awhile or whatever but don't make me run all the way back to the stable everytime the spawn changes... Heck make it like a spell... make it having a casting time and/or make it cost mana.... but let a tamer switch pets on the fly. Sure I'd like to have 6 control slots especially if I spend the time and effort to 120 taming, lore and vet... it ought to account for something more than the boot to the head that it does now.

And also what does it hurt anyone to give me more stable slots so I can have and train more pets??? Do you limit how many weapons a dexer can have???? Do they limit how many books a mage can carry or have????? NO ..... So why is the tamer so crippled????

Let me turn the pets into statuettes or something and store them in my house... let me take up vendor slots for pet storage(however that better be like 25 pets per vendor slot!) I don't care... just give me more stable space.

 

[Merlin]

I'm not saying I need more than a GD... I'd like to be able to switch pets like people swap weapons.... is that so terrible? Make it take awhile or whatever but don't make me run all the way back to the stable everytime the spawn changes... Heck make it like a spell... make it having a casting time and/or make it cost mana.... but let a tamer switch pets on the fly. Sure I'd like to have 6 control slots especially if I spend the time and effort to 120 taming, lore and vet... it ought to account for something more than the boot to the head that it does now.

And also what does it hurt anyone to give me more stable slots so I can have and train more pets??? Do you limit how many weapons a dexer can have???? Do they limit how many books a mage can carry or have????? NO ..... So why is the tamer so crippled????

Let me turn the pets into statuettes or something and store them in my house... let me take up vendor slots for pet storage(however that better be like 25 pets per vendor slot!) I don't care... just give me more stable space.

You should not be able to swap pets as easily as swapping weapons.

The game has achieved balance with the current number of control slots. There is no need for change here.

 

[MalagAste]

You should not be able to swap pets as easily as swapping weapons.

The game has achieved balance with the current number of control slots. There is no need for change here.

What makes you right and me wrong???? What harm is there in letting a tamer change pets like any other fighter changes weapons????

How about this.... keep it the way it is..... but then make everyone else restricted to bringing 2 weapons ONLY ....... no more than 2 in your pack at a time. Then it will be "fair" for everyone.

 

[Fridgster]

... to be honest I rarely ever carry more than 2 weapons... With that said I really don't see how it would effect anyone if you increased stable slots. Pet slots I don't think you can raise without there being a big unbalancing. As far as switching pets on the fly... eh wouldn't really bother me one way or the other.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

What makes you right and me wrong???? What harm is there in letting a tamer change pets like any other fighter changes weapons????

How about this.... keep it the way it is..... but then make everyone else restricted to bringing 2 weapons ONLY ....... no more than 2 in your pack at a time. Then it will be "fair" for everyone.

This is just my opinion, but, I think there is a fair balance now. What about the Tamer who is also a Spellweaver? Does he need to be "suped up"?In our PvM guild hunts, when I bring my tamer, I am willing to "stack" my damage up against any of the Dexxers. Of course I hit WoD for around 700-850 a shot , WHILE my pet is doing his damage. I play Tamers, Dexxers, Archers, a Thrower, and even a half baked Sampire (LOL). I think they EACH have a fairly equal value. I just don't see the need to be able to swap pets "on the fly".

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

... to be honest I rarely ever carry more than 2 weapons... With that said I really don't see how it would effect anyone if you increased stable slots. Pet slots I don't think you can raise without there being a big unbalancing. As far as switching pets on the fly... eh wouldn't really bother me one way or the other.

Right. I generally only carry more than 2-3 weapons if I think I might need a PvP weapon or 2.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Just let tamers carry pet balls for their various pets...when they summon one, the one they already have autostables...prob solved, nobody hurt

 

[BeaIank]

Give us pokeballs at once!
Also, please don't make this a major grind. I just can't stand any more grinds.