Proposal: Allow garg gear to be altered to fit other races

[BrianFreud]

It's always seemed strange to me that gargoyles can wear any gear (naturally, or by altering it), but humans and elves can't even look at garg gear.

Even morph earrings won't last forever, since they were a faction item. They're already selling for 100m. But at least for now, elf-only gear can be used by humans if you fit morph earrings into your suit. As for humans, there is no such thing as human-only gear.

So why can't we alter gargoyle gear so it can be used by the other races? It seems that they could even make it a minor gold sink, similar to mage guildmasters converting gear to add "mage armor". Get rid of "altering" and let the guildmasters for smithing, tailoring, etc charge a fee to convert any item to the equivalent for another race.

You could even expand it to allow the same item to be converted to equivalents for the same race - say 1m to convert platemail samurai to studded leather, or 500k to convert a cloth jester hat into a leather hat. I'm not a fan of mempos on the paperdoll; I'd happily pay 5m to convert a Leurocian's Mempo of Fortune into a Leurocian's Studded Gorget of Fortune.

 

[Lord Gandalf]

It's always seemed strange to me that gargoyles can wear any gear (naturally, or by altering it), but humans and elves can't even look at garg gear.

Even morph earrings won't last forever, since they were a faction item. They're already selling for 100m. But at least for now, elf-only gear can be used by humans if you fit morph earrings into your suit. As for humans, there is no such thing as human-only gear.

So why can't we alter gargoyle gear so it can be used by the other races? It seems that they could even make it a minor gold sink, similar to mage guildmasters converting gear to add "mage armor". Get rid of "altering" and let the guildmasters for smithing, tailoring, etc charge a fee to convert any item to the equivalent for another race.

You could even expand it to allow the same item to be converted to equivalents for the same race - say 1m to convert platemail samurai to studded leather, or 500k to convert a cloth jester hat into a leather hat. I'm not a fan of mempos on the paperdoll; I'd happily pay 5m to convert a Leurocian's Mempo of Fortune into a Leurocian's Studded Gorget of Fortune.

Rules and restrictions are good, and they give a special flavor to the game.

@BrianFreud you could have asked for another version of the mempo, but generalizing by asking to convert leather to iron, or leather to wood is a far from logic. No offense to the original poster, but lets start being less greedy and accept the fundamental things as they are.

Destroying the element of surprise "oh i wish this was studded", or the element of curiosity "i hope they will introduce a nice 250luck piece in the future patches" is what keeps uo going. Stop asking so much, races and the variety of dedicated items is very well put in place.

 

[Cady]

Only tough question here is that Studded vs Plate vs Leather have different properties for mana and stam loss. I don't think we should go so far as to be able to change the material properties of things, but aesthetics within the same class of gear shouldn't be a thorn in anyone's side. They let us do it with reward robes :/

Switching between studded>studded samurai>bone, same for the different metal armor options, should be easy enough. Bc obv ringmail and bone is best looking armor!

Aesthetics are everything, let's be real, how you gonna kill **** if you don't look good?

 

[BrianFreud]

@Lord Gandolf, you've ignored the main point:

Gargoyles don't have the same rules and restrictions of other races.

Gargoyles can use any armor; if it's for another race, they simply alter it to be gargoyle-specific. Elves and humans don't have that same flexibility for gear which starts as gargoyle-only.

 

[GarthGrey]

While I voted yes, and think everything should be alterable to everything, I'm not one of those that says things like "the mempo is ugly". Am I seriously the only one that doesn't hunt/farm/craft/chat while gazing adoringly at my paperdoll ?

 

[Smoot]

@Lord Gandolf, you've ignored the main point:

Gargoyles don't have the same rules and restrictions of other races.

Gargoyles can use any armor; if it's for another race, they simply alter it to be gargoyle-specific. Elves and humans don't have that same flexibility for gear which starts as gargoyle-only.

this isnt true. the vast majority of armor for viable garg templets cant be altered. neck slot. earrings. plus all studded/bone/hide which is the best for throwers, one of the most common garg templates.

Only thing you can alter is leather and plate, which isnt a good option for just about any gargoyal template. you can also alter very specific studded global artifacts, but its such a small percentage (and probably a bug/oversight) that i wouldnt even count these.

So in effect, theres very little useable gear for gargs that can actually be altered.

the whole point of gargs are that theres trade-offs that make them different from other races. why have races in the first place if a huge component of them (gearing) is the same.

For ring / bracelet, its nice that you can get "better" garg jewels for cheaper. its a very nice option for a player to make a very good and affordable character. pay maybe 300m for a jewel that if in human form would be 1billion.

personally i enjoy the differences in the races and would never want to see it all be the same.

 

[Lord Gandalf]

personally i enjoy the differences in the races and would never want to see it all be the same.

thank you

 

[Razz]

Has anyone been able to alter Shadow Dancer Legs to Garg? I would love to know how if you have.

 

[S_S]

I always thought gargoyles only get 5 basic armor slots compared to 6 that human and elf get? Because of that gargoyle items are slightly more powerful than human/elf items. If they allowed altering of gargoyle items we would have overpowered suits beyond what we get now I thought?

 

[Merus]

I always thought gargoyles only get 5 basic armor slots compared to 6 that human and elf get? Because of that gargoyle items are slightly more powerful than human/elf items. If they allowed altering of gargoyle items we would have overpowered suits beyond what we get now I thought?

The only thing that gets a slight bump on gargish items is the resists.... which in today's legendaries market is fairly moot because of resist caps.

 

[Smoot]

On second thought, the 1 template that has a bit of a gearing advantage is a basic Tamer Mage gargoyal, but only if you use a greater dragon and Dont use rideable pets.

theres only 1 slight disadvantage to this template in terms of gear, not being able to alter the luck mempo of fortune, but the gear benefits far outway that 110 luck.

you could also argue that slims shadow veil not being alterable effects gargs negatively, or the helm of swiftness for that matter, but with the introduction of the new doom helm (which is alterable) this isnt really an issue)

If anything, many people argue that more gear should be able to be altered To gargoyle, hardly ever the reverse. Loot abounds, and theres more than enough loot for human and elf characters already.

 

[Smoot]

I always thought gargoyles only get 5 basic armor slots compared to 6 that human and elf get? Because of that gargoyle items are slightly more powerful than human/elf items. If they allowed altering of gargoyle items we would have overpowered suits beyond what we get now I thought?

they get full 6 slots for armor, they just have a kilt slot instead of hands slot.

Originally, the resists did make a big difference in suits. gargs were alot more powerful because of that than they are now.

Also originally no head slot items (mostly applied to reading glasses) could be altered. at the time, the resists bonuses were such a huge advantage that allowing glasses to be altered did make garg gear a bit overpowered. thats not the case anymore of course, especially since imbue wieght of bows was upped by 50.

 

[Smoot]

also, new top end shadowguard arties like hawkwinds robe and that 0mageweapon staff that you can chug with dont come in garg versions, and cant be altered. another current disadvantage.

 

[BrianFreud]

Haven't they been promising that Hawkwinds and the rest will be either alterable, or have gargoyle equivalents, in an upcoming publish, whenever they get to it?

 

[Merus]

Haven't they been promising that Hawkwinds and the rest will be either alterable, or have gargoyle equivalents, in an upcoming publish, whenever they get to it?

Soon ... finishing the TOL expansion is on the list right after the new account management site in May 2015.

 

[Aibal]

Okay, I actually laughed out loud at this one.

Soon ... finishing the TOL expansion is on the list right after the new account management site in May 2015.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I voted no, solely because there needs to be direct trade offs between the races. Right now, each race has passive buffs/abilities. Allowing armor to basically become neutral to all races will force the meta into gargoyles due to the flying ability and controlling a 5 slot pet. I have spent the last year trying to build a Thrower Mage, looking for alterable legendary armor has made it a significant challenge. One I enjoy, but a challenge nonetheless. I known I could imbue something expediting the process, but I am choosing not to.

Gargs currently cannot use any of the head pieces that are of considerable value when building hybrid templates. I couldn't imagine a garg being allowed to use a mage/eval trav or a HH with +20 throwing. If they could I would be done with my suit and my template would be better than an archer mage due to mortal/ai on 1 weapon...

 

[Merus]

Gargs currently cannot use any of the head pieces that are of considerable value when building hybrid templates. I couldn't imagine a garg being allowed to use a mage/eval trav or a HH with +20 throwing. If they could I would be done with my suit and my template would be better than an archer mage due to mortal/ai on 1 weapon...

This seems a bit nonsensical to me.

1. Artifacts should be available to all classes. Why should 1 class have better skill arties than another?
2. Looted armor is only differentiated in resists. 5 pieces @ 17 resist = 85... so having a 6th piece (head slot for gargish) make no difference resist wise, even if the 5 other pieces of gargish are more than 17.
3. Weapon variety is a completely seperate issue... but archers have WAY more options than gargoyles do, most of them just suck.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

This seems a bit nonsensical to me.

1. Artifacts should be available to all classes. Why should 1 class have better skill arties than another?
2. Looted armor is only differentiated in resists. 5 pieces @ 17 resist = 85... so having a 6th piece (head slot for gargish) make no difference resist wise, even if the 5 other pieces of gargish are more than 17.
3. Weapon variety is a completely seperate issue... but archers have WAY more options than gargoyles do, most of them just suck.

Compare the archers weapons to that of throwing. A consolidated weapons list along with specials being different plays a huge part. So, it's not 'nonesensical' when you compare the whole template. Throwing has para shot/d mount on 1 weapon, and AI/mortal on another. An archer attempting to hit the same cycle will have to swap at a minimum of three times. Reg bow- para shot, H Xbow -dmount, Comp -AI. Thrower would only have to go cyclone - infused throw - infused throw, Glaive -mortal -Ai.

On top of that the Cyclone's D mount is 2s faster than archery and 1.25s faster than reg bow para shot.

So no, I do not agree with your statements based on a side by side comparison of the two templates.

 

[Lord Gandalf]

Are some players here trying to accuse the devs of being racist?

 

[Merus]

Compare the archers weapons to that of throwing. A consolidated weapons list along with specials being different plays a huge part. So, it's not 'nonesensical' when you compare the whole template. Throwing has para shot/d mount on 1 weapon, and AI/mortal on another. An archer attempting to hit the same cycle will have to swap at a minimum of three times. Reg bow- para shot, H Xbow -dmount, Comp -AI. Thrower would only have to go cyclone - infused throw - infused throw, Glaive -mortal -Ai.

On top of that the Cyclone's D mount is 2s faster than archery and 1.25s faster than reg bow para shot.

So no, I do not agree with your statements based on a side by side comparison of the two templates.

I don't disagree about weapons, just that its really a different topic unless we are talking about altering weapons along with armor. There isn't a valid argument regarding armor "power" that holds up against altering items.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I don't disagree about weapons, just that its really a different topic unless we are talking about altering weapons along with armor. There isn't a valid argument regarding armor "power" that holds up against altering items.

We are not talking about altering weapons, we are talking about passive abilities coupled with each individual race. Gargoyles are already very powerful with their 'limited' supply on artifacts. Giving them access to a head piece with +20 skill and 15hci will push them to the current meta.

I will say the same goes for magery type arties as well. Playing a mystic mage on a garg for RC is a huge bonus, but having limited skill inc items or arties is what keeps people on human tamplates which also puts them on foot.

You have to look at the risk v reward of the entire template and race. Right now it is very balanced.

 

[cazador]

Why are morph earring selling for that much? You can get them in VvV

I think those sell for so much cause they are ore patch not antique


....

 

[Merus]

We are not talking about altering weapons, we are talking about passive abilities coupled with each individual race. Gargoyles are already very powerful with their 'limited' supply on artifacts. Giving them access to a head piece with +20 skill and 15hci will push them to the current meta.

Then we just have to disagree... letting a gargoyle were a mark of the travesty doesn't unbalance anything more than letting humans were fey leggings, etc. Gear is so powerful nowdays, it really doesn't make much difference anymore.