Pet Revamp: More Details Please!

[Silent Singer]

I can't even get into all the potential issues this thread is leading to, so I'm just going tomake a simple plea. As someone who has spent more time in UO taming than ANY other activity in the last 15 years, PLEASE DON'T F**K WITH MY EXISTING PETS.

I have spent HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS AND DAYS AND DAYS AND in at least a few cases MONTHS farming each of the species, or in special cases making extremely expensive (in game terms) trades to get specific stats on non farmable breeds.

Please, please don't make all that effort worthless. While it is a videogame at the end of the day, at least some of us take great pride in taming.

 

[Lord Frodo]

A Effing MEN @Silent Singer

 

[Dot_Warner]

I want to be able to train a tiny bird to be a 5 slot tank, damnit!

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

If they go the imbuing route, then any pet that is mountable, should have a large chunk of it's Imbuing Points already tied up in it's Ridable status. That way, a 5 slot ridable pet, will never truly rival a 5 slot non ridable pet.
I'm of the mind that pets should have a pre-defined role, and increasing the slots should make it better for that role, with a few species specific abilities.
- Grizzly Bears for instance, should be Tanks with an Enrage/Berserk mechanic, where the lower their current Health % gets, the more damage they dish out (Grizzlies IRL are infamous for death rampages).
- Rune Beetles, would be a Damage Dealer, their Armor Corruption is already a unique group damage buff.
- Skrees would be Magic Damage Dealers, that have greatly increased Spell Damage and Mana Pool/Regeneration, while also providing some Mage related buffs to their tamer (+MR, maybe a Mana restoring effect like Shadow Wisps have).
- Imps would function similar to Skrees, but maybe give them some Necro spells, and a SDI buff to their tamer.
- Reptalons would be Tanks, with an innate Life Drain like Vampire Bats have, and their Breath would be like the Meer Eternal's "Blood Drain" attack.
- White Wyrms would be Magic Damage Dealers, with greater Spell Damage and the ability to AoE, like have their Breath act like a Hailstorm, or some type of "Wing Buffet" attack that acts like a Wither (just imagine the WW whipping his wings back and forth to create a sudden gust of freezing wind).

These are just some of the ideas that i've come up with and bouncing around.

 

[Uvtha]

I can't even get into all the potential issues this thread is leading to, so I'm just going tomake a simple plea. As someone who has spent more time in UO taming than ANY other activity in the last 15 years, PLEASE DON'T F**K WITH MY EXISTING PETS.

I have spent HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS AND DAYS AND DAYS AND in at least a few cases MONTHS farming each of the species, or in special cases making extremely expensive (in game terms) trades to get specific stats on non farmable breeds.

Please, please don't make all that effort worthless. While it is a videogame at the end of the day, at least some of us take great pride in taming.

I get all that but... if they stopped trying to grow or improve the parts of the game that people spent a lot of time and effort on, development would just have to stop. I know a lot of people may wish it would, but I personally would prefer it go on.

 

[The Craftsman]

If pet revamp items are sold in the store it would generate more money than a major expansion.

So EA can drop the profits from said expansion into their back pocket and not reinvest a cent of it back into UO? Great idea for EA but it does nothing whatsoever for UO.

 

[Kyronix]

The imbuing approach sounds interesting. You can customize a pet for a specific mob.

Just make sure the new Lasher can be upgraded. If not, can 1 slot mounts be able to turn into containers?

I'm assuming you mean turning 1 slot mounts into a statuette from their animal form that you can resummon? With the exception of the ethereal mounts, this won't be the case.

 

[Kyronix]

Reading the newsletter it sounds like a pet will naturally reach a level point while training it. He is using reforge and imbuing as examples of modification methods. With reforging you get an attribute from a group, but you cant choose the actual attribute. With imbuing you get to pick the exact attribute you want the pet to have.

Please don't make the gains cost us materials. Its enough of a pain to train up pets. At least for me.

What about 5 slot pets, will they be able to gain?

The exact nature of how 5 slot pets will be impacted remains to be seen. The first step from our end is to generate some survivability quotient to get a better sense of where all tameables currently stand in relation to each other. This quotient will take into account all stats, skills, and special moves. Once we have that information, we can get a better idea of what will happen to five slot pets. I can say that without altering the greater dragon to give it some tradeoff in terms of damage output, survivability we aren't going to get very far.

And will any pet type be able to increase its stats to a maximum level? Or do we still have to start with a high stat pet?

There will likely be some variation within individual species. Just like nature, individuals of a population have strengths and weaknesses. Our goal is to get tamers out there taming and finding the strongest of a population (the alphas so to speak) should require some investment of time/skill etc.

What about rideable pets that take 4 or less slots, will you still be able to mount them when they reach 5 slots?

Still something we need to consider in terms of balance.


I think it would be nice to use two nightmares or fire steeds and they combine their killing power equal to a GD. Instead of a five slot nightmare.

Which tamables will be able to be advanced? Should we allow a rat , cat or dog be as strong as a GD?

Depends on the creature. The smaller models will unlikely be able to get to any level of uber-strength, but will have other advantages over larger pets of higher slot counts.

@Kyronix you opened this pandoras box, We need more detailed info if you want us involed.

Answered your questions above. Disclaimer: All of this is still very early in the planning stages and is subject to change.

 

[Kyronix]

@Kyronix
It is hard to really to pick just one when you are using Crafting Terms as a Pet Revamp.
With Imbuing a pet are we going to be required to obtain certain items to imbue with? What are the Imbuing weights going to be? Are we getting a %100 success rate when we pick what we want?

The exact mechanic involved in adding/removing attributes to a pet is undecided as of yet, the use of materials hasn't been part of the conversations we've had thus far, so I don't see it being part of the implmentation. Adding things like saddles, armor, and equipment would obviously change that were we to go that route. I only used imbuing/reforging as means to demonstrate cherry picking attributes vs. working with a package of attributes. Specific questions like imbuing weights isn't something I can answer at this stage, or even if we will use a weighted point system like imbuing current does. Randomness will factor in some way, whether at the original spawning of the creature (the way it currently works) or some other mechanic. This will provide a fluid and more realistic simulation of real creature populations and prevent a diminishing of the need to continually tame new creatures.

With the Reforge method are we going to get a tool like a runic and will we have different levels we can pick.

Similar to my answer above, this is only to demonstrate the different strategies to select attributes.

Without some basic ideas of how you intend for us to apply the upgrades then it is hard to pick just one.

It's really a question of whether you prefer a more straightforward implementation of generic packages that allow you to choose a collection of attributes or whether you want to be the one deciding how to mix and match different attributes. The implementation is irrelevant, it's really about your preferences in how much freedom you prefer to make changes and customize things.

Also since you are using Crafting Terms will there be a way to enhance our pets and will there be a Pet enhance tool in the store?

See above about this not being crafting.

Are you considering allowing us to be able to use these methods on existing 5 slot pets that are not at max capacity? If not then a lot of Tamers could be very pissed when our GDs become extinct.

I mentioned this briefly in a previous response. Leaving GDs as the end all/be all pet without changes in that creature to provide tradeoffs prevents any real progress towards the concerns that this feature hopes to address. Those concerns (the ones we hear the most frequently across all channels of feedback include:

• I wish there were new pets to tame
• Everyone uses Greater Dragons, fix it.
• I wish X pet was useful again so I could use it instead of my Greater Dragon.
• I wish I could customize my pets to make them more diverse.

Will we be able to make a new 5 slot pet that is greater than a Great Dragon?

See my above answer about the GD.

Without knowing some of the ideas/thoughts when you first came up with this is is hard to really say.
Can I turn a 1 slot pet horse into a pet with Rune Beetle abilities or are we going to be limited with the abilities that a pet already has?

Depends on the ability. Special creatures will continue to have special abilities. Abilities will likely be in line with the morphologies of the creatures they are on (You can't have a tailswipe ability on a creature without a tail)

How can we say we want this method of application when we have no clue as to what we are going to be able to apply.

See my previous answers, and the newsletter about the kinds of things you'll be able to change.

What are the basic parameters and what is going to be the max limits we are allowed?

See my previous post in this thread about determining a survivability quotient for each pet. Once we understand that, we can get a better sense of min/maxing these values.

Answers are inline above. Disclaimer: All information is subject to change.

 

[Merlin]

If they go the imbuing route, then any pet that is mountable, should have a large chunk of it's Imbuing Points already tied up in it's Ridable status. That way, a 5 slot ridable pet, will never truly rival a 5 slot non ridable pet.
I'm of the mind that pets should have a pre-defined role, and increasing the slots should make it better for that role, with a few species specific abilities.
- Grizzly Bears for instance, should be Tanks with an Enrage/Berserk mechanic, where the lower their current Health % gets, the more damage they dish out (Grizzlies IRL are infamous for death rampages).
- Rune Beetles, would be a Damage Dealer, their Armor Corruption is already a unique group damage buff.
- Skrees would be Magic Damage Dealers, that have greatly increased Spell Damage and Mana Pool/Regeneration, while also providing some Mage related buffs to their tamer (+MR, maybe a Mana restoring effect like Shadow Wisps have).
- Imps would function similar to Skrees, but maybe give them some Necro spells, and a SDI buff to their tamer.
- Reptalons would be Tanks, with an innate Life Drain like Vampire Bats have, and their Breath would be like the Meer Eternal's "Blood Drain" attack.
- White Wyrms would be Magic Damage Dealers, with greater Spell Damage and the ability to AoE, like have their Breath act like a Hailstorm, or some type of "Wing Buffet" attack that acts like a Wither (just imagine the WW whipping his wings back and forth to create a sudden gust of freezing wind).

These are just some of the ideas that i've come up with and bouncing around.

Great ideas as always!

A thought I had lately had to do with the different various bears we see across UO. Grizzly bears, Black bears, and Polar bears should all have some type of different advantage. In example, a Polar bear should do atleast some cold damage (say 20%-25%) in addition to Physical. Maybe have some type of cold AoE or special. I like the idea of a Grizzly having a 'berserk/rampage' type of ability and being more offensive, while maybe a Black bear has higher DCI and Hit Points and has better overall survivability. The available skill sets in these bears should have some variation as well.

A comment I have made a few times was that Dragon Turtles shouldn't have all of the same stats as a GD. Specifically, I think rather than have 100% Physical damage, they should have 80% Physical / 20% Poison, or some other different combination. Since the majority of turtles are less than 4.0 on the UOCraft pet calculator scale, it just doesn't make sense to use these if they offer no variety at all from a GD.

 

[Merlin]

I mentioned this briefly in a previous response. Leaving GDs as the end all/be all pet without changes in that creature to provide tradeoffs prevents any real progress towards the concerns that this feature hopes to address. Those concerns (the ones we hear the most frequently across all channels of feedback include:

• I wish there were new pets to tame
• Everyone uses Greater Dragons, fix it.
• I wish X pet was useful again so I could use it instead of my Greater Dragon.
• I wish I could customize my pets to make them more diverse.

I certainly would like to see some other very viable puts be useful again so that GD's aren't the only thing we see Tamers using. However, I do share the concern that GD's shouldn't exactly go extinct either. I am hoping that GD's are considered as the pet to scale up or down to, and that they can remain one of the top handful of pets to have. Specifically with being able to deal Physical damage, I think GD's should still be a top end pet to have.

Also, I hope you consider bringing back some of the extinct pets that we don't see spawning anymore.

Thanks for all your great responses!

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Answers are inline above. Disclaimer: All information is subject to change.

can you change the answers to red or a different color? The blue is insanely hard to read

 

[Lythos-]

@Kyronix please do not make this more complicated than it needs to be. A revamp would work very smoothly by allowing customization of what's currently available. Combat skills + magery where applicable + resists and elemental damage. Don't take this to a level where it shouldn't go by adding in stats, HPI, DCI or HCI.

Example: I have a dread mare that is 3 slots. That would leave me 2 slots to increase. I would increase fire resistance and most likely wrestling to bring it up to a 5 slot. We also should have the ability to swap special moves whenever and within reason at a cost. This would make some lower end pets better while not taking away the pecking order of creatures in the game. A greater dragon should be the king of pets but a cu sidhe should also be worth using.

But please feel free to add in a rideable pet that will spam Holy Fist at 4/6 casting for me. I would enjoy this in pvp.

 

[Kyronix]

@Kyronix please do not make this more complicated than it needs to be. A revamp would work very smoothly by allowing customization of what's currently available. Combat skills + magery where applicable + resists and elemental damage. Don't take this to a level where it shouldn't go by adding in stats, HPI, DCI or HCI.

Example: I have a dread mare that is 3 slots. That would leave me 2 slots to increase. I would increase fire resistance and most likely wrestling to bring it up to a 5 slot. We also should have the ability to swap special moves whenever and within reason at a cost. This would make some lower end pets better while not taking away the pecking order of creatures in the game. A greater dragon should be the king of pets but a cu sidhe should also be worth using.

But please feel free to add in a rideable pet that will spam Holy Fist at 4/6 casting for me. I would enjoy this in pvp.

The goal isn't to make it overly complicated, and the examples provided were using arbitrary stats just to demonstrate a difference in the level of customization. Making anything "worth using" while maintaining the GD as the "King of Pets" make it hard to accomplish the former task. If anything the GD is going to have to sacrifice something in some area to give each pet pros/cons to use in various situations. Otherwise everyone is just going to tank every mob on a GD while watching it crush everything with dragon AI.

 

[Nexus]

@Kyronix
But please feel free to add in a rideable pet that will spam Holy Fist at 4/6 casting for me. I would enjoy this in pvp.

See that comment right there is the main reason I would like the entire pet revamp idea shelved, there is going to be unintended consequences some where and it will lead to another round of nerfs, buffs, and pseudo-balancing to try and bring it into check which will create more issues. It's really simple, don't "fix" what isn't broken to start with. If they want to get bring diversity back to taming so people are using other pets... fine target the root problem and admit Greater Dragons were a horrible mistake and remove them as tamable, it is not only honest but falls squarely in line with the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle. The more they over think and over complicate various aspects of the game the further from what made UO a great game to begin with they go, and yes I understand that AoS pretty much screwed the pooch on that, but there isn't a whole lot of logic in continuing to make it worse.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

The goal isn't to make it overly complicated, and the examples provided were using arbitrary stats just to demonstrate a difference in the level of customization. Making anything "worth using" while maintaining the GD as the "King of Pets" make it hard to accomplish the former task. If anything the GD is going to have to sacrifice something in some area to give each pet pros/cons to use in various situations. Otherwise everyone is just going to tank every mob on a GD while watching it crush everything with dragon AI.

I like the concept of adding pets that can in essence act like slayer weapons. Certain pets for certain Mobs etc. I like the concept of reforging making it have the potential to be really good, or really bad. Should it be bad, you trash the pet and start over. I think a great gold sink would be turn in points to acquire the runics or talismen to craft your pet.

Imbuing will be tough because it's guaranteed success. I like the concept in relation to armor and weapons, but think it could make this pet revamp a nightmare. I am interested in following the risk vs reward scenario on this. It does sound like a step in the right direction.

All of the tamers are going to freak out when they have to replace their current pets, but this is the way the game progresses. I have had to replace my armor, weapons and templates to adapt to the constantly changing environment. It is a good thing in the end. If anything it is creating a new end-game to search for. Hell, I might even start taming...

 

[Lord Frodo]

I mentioned this briefly in a previous response. Leaving GDs as the end all/be all pet without changes in that creature to provide tradeoffs prevents any real progress towards the concerns that this feature hopes to address. Those concerns (the ones we hear the most frequently across all channels of feedback include:

• I wish there were new pets to tame
• Everyone uses Greater Dragons, fix it.
• I wish X pet was useful again so I could use it instead of my Greater Dragon.
• I wish I could customize my pets to make them more diverse.

Will we be able to make a new 5 slot pet that is greater than a Great Dragon?

See my above answer about the GD.

Answers are inline above. Disclaimer: All information is subject to change.

So if I understand this part you want us to be able to make other pets as strong as a GD so we will use them instead oF GDs and I contend that if you let the Stats,Skills and Resists rise up to be equal to a GD then in fact you will make those pets greater than a GD by allowing us, to by what ever method you decide on, to add HCI, DCI, the list is as long as all the stuff we can add to our chars that they will be better than any GD could ever be. Example but lets just say a Grizzly Bear raised to a 5 slot pet that has everything that a GD has stat, resist and skill, minus magery, but I can add magery plus any thing else that can be imbued/reforged/enhanced being added to the new pets will make it better than a GD. Without us being able to enhance our GDs you have effectively made them useless.

 

[Lord Frodo]

The goal isn't to make it overly complicated, and the examples provided were using arbitrary stats just to demonstrate a difference in the level of customization. Making anything "worth using" while maintaining the GD as the "King of Pets" make it hard to accomplish the former task. If anything the GD is going to have to sacrifice something in some area to give each pet pros/cons to use in various situations. Otherwise everyone is just going to tank every mob on a GD while watching it crush everything with dragon AI.

If you just let the pet raise it s current abilities Stats, Skills, Resists and special ability if it has one then that would be the simple way but when add in all the other stuff that is where the complication comes in. We will have a pet that we are trying to build a suit on like we build for ourselves.

 

[Pawain]

@Kyronix

1. What will happen to fully trained pets? Will they instantly be able to upgrade or will they lose all training and start over. Or, just be a legacy pet.

2. For variety of pets. The only rideable container is a blue beetle. Can a horse or Lasher be upgraded to have a container but given no more fighting abilities.

3. I'm liking the idea of pet add-ons. A saddle to make some tamables be ridable ,like a gamen or other 4 legged beast.
A pack rack to turn a pet into a container. These pets would not be able to fight with that add on attached.
Others can think of other pet add-ons I'm sure.

4. Consider making 2 pets be able to be used as powerfully as a GD. Would be nice to use 2 Nightmares again.

5. You realize that whatever the strongest pet is for PvP or PvM will be found really soon, and everyone will have that pet.
I think it would be a good idea to have most tamables rise to the base high level and the differences be the attributes selected.
I don't think a mongbat, imp or tiny bird should rise too far. But, others may want that to happen. (eagles ok to to be beasts)

6. Don't forget Battle chicken lizards. Let them rise to new heights!!!

7. I'm all in on making more tamables be used, but I have no idea how the attributes are going to be balanced. Good Luck!

Thanks!!

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Kyronix

1. What will happen to fully trained pets? Will they instantly be able to upgrade or will they lose all training and start over. Or, just be a legacy pet.

2. For variety of pets. The only rideable container is a blue beetle. Can a horse or Lasher be upgraded to have a container but given no more fighting abilities.

3. I'm liking the idea of pet add-ons. A saddle to make some tamables be ridable ,like a gamen or other 4 legged beast.
A pack rack to turn a pet into a container. These pets would not be able to fight with that add on attached.
Others can think of other pet add-ons I'm sure.

4. Consider making 2 pets be able to be used as powerfully as a GD. Would be nice to use 2 Nightmares again.

5. You realize that whatever the strongest pet is for PvP or PvM will be found really soon, and everyone will have that pet.
I think it would be a good idea to have most tamables rise to the base high level and the differences be the attributes selected.
I don't think a mongbat, imp or tiny bird should rise too far. But, others may want that to happen. (eagles ok to to be beasts)

6. Don't forget Battle chicken lizards. Let them rise to new heights!!!

7. I'm all in on making more tamables be used, but I have no idea how the attributes are going to be balanced. Good Luck!

Thanks!!

I am all for a pet revamp as long as they do not make all my fully trained pets obsolete.

 

[Merlin]

If anything the GD is going to have to sacrifice something in some area to give each pet pros/cons to use in various situations. Otherwise everyone is just going to tank every mob on a GD while watching it crush everything with dragon AI.

That's a tough one. I can certainly see scaling other pets up to be as viable as a GD, but scaling down existing GD's will cause a lot of frustration amongst tamers who have played these templates for years. I'm not saying GD's need to remain the "be-all end-all" by any means, but if at all possible, please just don't nerf them so that they're second or third tier either. It's going to be a tough balance and I am sure you will give us ample time for testing.

My top suggestion I'd like to see are better pets that do non-physical damage.

 

[Thrakkar]

Example but lets just say a Grizzly Bear raised to a 5 slot pet that has everything that a GD has stat, resist and skill, minus magery, but I can add magery plus any thing else that can be imbued/reforged/enhanced being added to the new pets will make it better than a GD.

No.
The terms imbuing & reforging have just been used as analogy to make people better understand the two approaches with either apply a skill-package (reforging) at level-up or individual skills (imbuing) at level-up. Please stop using those terms. You won't be able to "imbue" or "reforge" any pet with any skill...

And I'm pretty sure, a bear won't be able to get magery. See his answer here:

Abilities will likely be in line with the morphologies of the creatures they are on (You can't have a tailswipe ability on a creature without a tail)

A bear is no magical creature, thus it wouldn't make sense.

 

[Thrakkar]

@Kyronix
1. What will happen to fully trained pets? Will they instantly be able to upgrade or will they lose all training and start over. Or, just be a legacy pet.

Now a fully trained pet just means maxed out skills & stats. I doubt, that the new training will have anything to do with those.
So a current pet with max stats & max skills might easily be completely untrained under the new system. (And skill/stat-training and "level-up"-training on a freshly tamed pet under the new system could go very well in parallel.)

 

[Merus]

@Kyronix

Pet choice for a fight should be based on things like damage type, specials, etc... not really things like HP and resists. Level 3 pets should be comparable in things like HP, Mana, and Resists... Level 5 pets should be comparable in things like HP, Mana, and Resists... then things like specials, elemental damage type, etc make a difference. I don't care how many AI or bleed attacks a mongbat can do, if it can't take a hit, no one will use it.

 

[CovenantX]

people also seem to ignore Regular dragons exist... if the plan stays as is, you could just level a normal dragon to be greater (but also gain Hci, Dci, resist etc through the levelling process (which unless Greaters start with points ready for you to allocate, they would be much less useful)

PS: White wyrms do not have a "breath" attack... they never did. (that's why they were better than dragons before Greaters showed up) lol

 

[Lord Frodo]

people also seem to ignore Regular dragons exist... if the plan stays as is, you could just level a normal dragon to be greater (but also gain Hci, Dci, resist etc through the levelling process (which unless Greaters start with points ready for you to allocate, they would be much less useful)

PS: White wyrms do not have a "breath" attack... they never did. (that's why they were better than dragons before Greaters showed up) lol

Nice example and that reg Dragon could easily be better than a GD with the add ons.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Now a fully trained pet just means maxed out skills & stats. I doubt, that the new training will have anything to do with those.
So a current pet with max stats & max skills might easily be completely untrained under the new system. (And skill/stat-training and "level-up"-training on a freshly tamed pet under the new system could go very well in parallel.)

So now you are suggesting that we will have to retrain all our trained pets, what a cluster.

 

[Lord Frodo]

No.
The terms imbuing & reforging have just been used as analogy to make people better understand the two approaches with either apply a skill-package (reforging) at level-up or individual skills (imbuing) at level-up. Please stop using those terms. You won't be able to "imbue" or "reforge" any pet with any skill...

And I'm pretty sure, a bear won't be able to get magery. See his answer here:

A bear is no magical creature, thus it wouldn't make sense.

I understand his terms as he is using them and I am referring to them in the same manner and the example you gave has nothing to do with skills but special abilities but if you go to the news letter other things are mentioned. When did any pet have HCI or DCI, I rest my case.

 

[Lythos-]

The goal isn't to make it overly complicated, and the examples provided were using arbitrary stats just to demonstrate a difference in the level of customization. Making anything "worth using" while maintaining the GD as the "King of Pets" make it hard to accomplish the former task. If anything the GD is going to have to sacrifice something in some area to give each pet pros/cons to use in various situations. Otherwise everyone is just going to tank every mob on a GD while watching it crush everything with dragon AI.

The greater dragon is already a 5 slot pet. You could make it where there is no room for upgrades or changing of elemental damage. Being unable to customize would be the drawback.

A pet like a dread warhorse or bane dragon would have 2 slots for upgrades. You could involve the consumption of powerscrolls for pets (which would also give an increase to fel activity and the pvp scene) and changing of elemental damage and resists along with the ability to change special moves. Perhaps 2 options per slot level?

This would fit the pro/con situation perfectly. If you sacrifice something on the GD while offering upgrades to every other pet you're only leveling every pet to be equal and the whole system would go stale quick.

 

[cobb]

I certainly would like to see some other very viable puts be useful again so that GD's aren't the only thing we see Tamers using. However, I do share the concern that GD's shouldn't exactly go extinct either. I am hoping that GD's are considered as the pet to scale up or down to, and that they can remain one of the top handful of pets to have. Specifically with being able to deal Physical damage, I think GD's should still be a top end pet to have.

Also, I hope you consider bringing back some of the extinct pets that we don't see spawning anymore.

Thanks for all your great responses!

I agree. Its important to not make Greater Dragons useless. Other 5 slot pets could have more damage but less hp, different abilities or other damage types. They could have variations, but overall they should be around the same power level. Unless of course we are talking about a rideable pet. A rideable pet needs to be weaker overall than other 5 slot pets, or it will completely destroy pvp balance.

 

[The Craftsman]

Its blatant which way this is going to go. In a UO world where imbalances are rife, this pet revamp will cause even further imbalances. Instead of concentrating on fixing stuff that needs to be fixed this is just yet more "add crap to the game ... as it keeps all the sheep paying" without ever getting the game to a stable state. This is going to be a disaster. I'll refer you all back to this post when it happens and you are all whining.

 

[Silent Singer]

Suddenly my excitement that pet revamp meant better WW, Reptalons, Fire Steeds, etc had been replaced by an impending sense of dread. Any chance we can just skip the whole thing and jump straight to a high seas update?

 

[cobb]

Its blatant which way this is going to go. In a UO world where imbalances are rife, this pet revamp will cause even further imbalances. Instead of concentrating on fixing stuff that needs to be fixed this is just yet more "add crap to the game ... as it keeps all the sheep paying" without ever getting the game to a stable state. This is going to be a disaster. I'll refer you all back to this post when it happens and you are all whining.

I don't think there is a need to worry about imbalances yet. As long as the Devs remember to not make rideable pets as strong as the GD'S, it should be ok.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm sorry @Kyronix but this still leaves tamers with the #1 problem we have... I go to a champ spawn with friends while they are archers and throwers and all they swap weapons out to get the best effect bonus per level and I have ONE weapon... my pet I can't swap it whatever I bring has to be able to do it all...

It doesn't matter what fancy stuff other pets can do... I'm still going to be stuck with ONE weapon to bring no matter what pet I raise to 5 slots.

While this might help at say Lady M... or even at some other peerless or whatever it won't help at Doom since all the rooms have different weaknesses again I won't be able to get a new pet out to take to each room... I'm stuck with whatever I take down there in the first place...

 

[The Craftsman]

I don't think there is a need to worry about imbalances yet. As long as the Devs remember to not make rideable pets as strong as the GD'S, it should be ok.

Jesus. Are you serious? This bunch couldnt balance a cup on a table!

 

[Tina Small]

@Kyronix I tried searching to see if you've already answered this, but didn't come up with anything. Will there be an increase in stable slots for all accounts coincident with the pet revamp publish or some other route we can take to increase stable slots?

 

[Merlin]

I'm sorry @Kyronix but this still leaves tamers with the #1 problem we have... I go to a champ spawn with friends while they are archers and throwers and all they swap weapons out to get the best effect bonus per level and I have ONE weapon... my pet I can't swap it whatever I bring has to be able to do it all...

It doesn't matter what fancy stuff other pets can do... I'm still going to be stuck with ONE weapon to bring no matter what pet I raise to 5 slots.

While this might help at say Lady M... or even at some other peerless or whatever it won't help at Doom since all the rooms have different weaknesses again I won't be able to get a new pet out to take to each room... I'm stuck with whatever I take down there in the first place...

Having only 'one weapon' is the cost of being a tamer. Most tamers that go to a champ spawns have some type of casting skill, and have other various types of elemental damage and AoE's available to them. The benefit you have is that you can stand back and cast spells on the mobs / your pet / yourself / your teammates, while the pet acts like a tank for you. Melee fighters don't have that ability, as they are putting their own skin on the line when tanking a boss, and thus should have more than one weapon available to them. Casters also have the ability to change spell books with the various slayers on them. Are you suggesting the ability to just automatically swap pets? That would likely leave tamers too OP, especially if new more powerful pets are introduced with the upcoming publish.

A Greater Dragon, along with no matter what additional template you're running, is going to take down just about anything in the Doom gauntlet.

I agree. Its important to not make Greater Dragons useless. Other 5 slot pets could have more damage but less hp, different abilities or other damage types. They could have variations, but overall they should be around the same power level. Unless of course we are talking about a rideable pet. A rideable pet needs to be weaker overall than other 5 slot pets, or it will completely destroy pvp balance.

Wouldn't it be ironic if they put forth all of these combat changes that affect PVP and then in the next publish they put out some new pets that turn PVP over on its head?

If they nerf GD's by way of making other powerful pets... that's one thing we can adapt to. But if GD's are nerfed by way of reducing GD performance, that is going to make years of hard work tamers have been in to be moot. It's not going to be an easy balance so the developers have their work cut out for them. As long as it is tested properly and long enough, it hopefully won't break balance to the point that an entire class of pets becomes totally obsolete.

 

[The Craftsman]

As long as it is tested properly and long enough, it hopefully won't break balance to the point that an entire class of pets becomes totally obsolete.

And on track record, how confident are you that this will happen?

 

[Lord Frodo]

@The Craftsman Sir you get perty doom and gloom at times but I have to agree with you on this one with all the **** they are proposing that we may add to our new pets will make our current pets obsolete and will be a balancing nightmare for PvP.

 

[Thrakkar]

So now you are suggesting that we will have to retrain all our trained pets, what a cluster.

This is just an assumption. Nobody knows anything, not even the devs, as they are just designing and ironing out the basics for the pet revamp.
But would you rather have to dump your legacy pets, because you can't train them anymore?

I understand his terms as he is using them and I am referring to them in the same manner and the example you gave has nothing to do with skills but special abilities but if you go to the news letter other things are mentioned.

The newsletter doesn't say anything about being able to add magery to a bear. The closest thing in that newsletter to that is the part "you would be able to select from a pool of attributes that would each have an associated weight." And I'm pretty sure magery isn't in any pool of attributes for bears (that's where the "Abilities will likely be in line with the morphologies of the creatures they are on" part comes into play, even if it is about abilities and not skills).

When did any pet have HCI or DCI, I rest my case.

When? Never!
But that doesn't mean, it's not going to change in the future. At least it's on the plate for the pet revamp right now.
IMHO it makes perfectly sense. Some animals are faster than others, HCI would make sense for those. Some animals are stronger than others, HLD would make sense for them.
I'm all in for those....

 

[Lord Frodo]

This is just an assumption. Nobody knows anything, not even the devs, as they are just designing and ironing out the basics for the pet revamp.
But would you rather have to dump your legacy pets, because you can't train them anymore?



The newsletter doesn't say anything about being able to add magery to a bear. The closest thing in that newsletter to that is the part "you would be able to select from a pool of attributes that would each have an associated weight." And I'm pretty sure magery isn't in any pool of attributes for bears (that's where the "Abilities will likely be in line with the morphologies of the creatures they are on" part comes into play, even if it is about abilities and not skills).


When? Never!
But that doesn't mean, it's not going to change in the future. At least it's on the plate for the pet revamp right now.
IMHO it makes perfectly sense. Some animals are faster than others, HCI would make sense for those. Some animals are stronger than others, HLD would make sense for them.
I'm all in for those....

None of the other stuff is in the pool for any pet so why can't a Grizzly Bear be given Magery it makes as much sense as all this other stuff they are going to allow. Can't wait to see Greater Rune Beatles or Greater Reg Dragons or Greater Dreads or Greater WW.

 

[Thrakkar]

Can't wait to see Greater Rune Beatles or Greater Reg Dragons or Greater Dreads or Greater WW.

Me too! This is so exciting!
Just imagine 2 improved two-slot frenzieds and a third one-slot frenzied ostard, which you will be riding because its weaker but still will contribute to the pack instinct. Awesome times ahead

 

[Lythos-]

None of the other stuff is in the pool for any pet so why can't a Grizzly Bear be given Magery it makes as much sense as all this other stuff they are going to allow.

It would make more sense than rainbow unicorns for sure.

Side note, I think we should all agree Vollums should NOT have the ability for upgrades since they require 0 taming.

 

[Lord Frodo]

It would make more sense than rainbow unicorns for sure.

Side note, I think we should all agree Vollums should NOT have the ability for upgrades since they require 0 taming.

Never thought of those but this is a PET REVAMP not a TAMER REVAMP. there are other pets out there that require no Taming so now if we upgrade them are they going to require Taming? A lot of players will be pissed when they upgrade their swampy and watch it go wild because they now require Taming/Lore to control. This seriously could become one big nightmare.

 

[Pawain]

@Kyronix

Don't forget about Time of Legends.

Gallusaurus, Allosaurus, Saurosaurus, or Dimetrosaur Could become comparable to a GD.

At least let us tame an Anchisaur. But you need to allow us to bard them.

 

[transcendent]

Can we make Tigers rideable?

 

[BeaIank]

What about pokeballs? Will we get our UO equivalent of a pokeball so I can swap my pets middle hunt for a pet that is more effective against the foe I am fighting?
White Wyrm used cold breath against Virtuebane. It was super effective!

 

[Lythos-]

Never thought of those but this is a PET REVAMP not a TAMER REVAMP. there are other pets out there that require no Taming so now if we upgrade them are they going to require Taming? A lot of players will be pissed when they upgrade their swampy and watch it go wild because they now require Taming/Lore to control. This seriously could become one big nightmare.

There's NO other pet in the game with the same stats and skills as a nightmare that requires 0 taming like the Vollum in a crystal. If these are allowed to be upgraded, you're looking at something as equal to a dreadmare that anyone could tote around...

It's nowhere close to being the same as a swampie but you are right, this will become a mess quick.

 

[MalagAste]

Having only 'one weapon' is the cost of being a tamer. Most tamers that go to a champ spawns have some type of casting skill, and have other various types of elemental damage and AoE's available to them. The benefit you have is that you can stand back and cast spells on the mobs / your pet / yourself / your teammates, while the pet acts like a tank for you. Melee fighters don't have that ability, as they are putting their own skin on the line when tanking a boss, and thus should have more than one weapon available to them. Casters also have the ability to change spell books with the various slayers on them. Are you suggesting the ability to just automatically swap pets? That would likely leave tamers too OP, especially if new more powerful pets are introduced with the upcoming publish.

A Greater Dragon, along with no matter what additional template you're running, is going to take down just about anything in the Doom gauntlet.



Wouldn't it be ironic if they put forth all of these combat changes that affect PVP and then in the next publish they put out some new pets that turn PVP over on its head?

If they nerf GD's by way of making other powerful pets... that's one thing we can adapt to. But if GD's are nerfed by way of reducing GD performance, that is going to make years of hard work tamers have been in to be moot. It's not going to be an easy balance so the developers have their work cut out for them. As long as it is tested properly and long enough, it hopefully won't break balance to the point that an entire class of pets becomes totally obsolete.

Yes so I can kill it sssslllllooooowwwwwlllllyyyy..... you have any idea how slow it is? And yes I can have a compliment skill of magery or something but cut in two because I already have 360 points wrapped up in taming... or I can drop Animal Lore and cripple myself because when my dragon dies I won't be able to rez it...

And crippled even further because all dexers can make weapons that are specific to the mobs easily and pick exactly what they want on them.... but mages are still left with NO imbuable spellbooks leaving you to chance trying to make a decent spellbook the best of which is a Scrappers that has a 0.00001% chance of actually having it be a "slayer" and getting a slayer of anything actually useful is closer to a 0.0000000000001% chance... without the scrappers you get little to no SDI which for someone who can't have Eval on the template leaves you do little to no damage as a mage. Or you drop something else like meditation so you can't keep up with heals on your pet and since most things now do insane amounts of area damage you can't stand anywhere NEAR your pet to heal it so you are always low on Mana..... but then they gave us these wonderful Masteries... only those too take Mana.... So then what do you sacrifice??? Don't use your Taming Mastery so you can use the mage one??? Or don't use the Barding Mastery if you are a bard tamer to take the Taming one.... but again no mana.... So you build your suit around giving mana and what then do you sacrifice? But as Dexers don't have to make these sorts of sacrifices... you think that tamer who is there to tank the boss so the Dexer can get all the damage in and reap all the reward is happy about being the "support" player who walks away with sometimes not even doing enough to get looting rights is happy????? But saved your dexer from having to tank. And once again your stuck with the GD. Slow... cumbersome and does seriously little damage. But I got crippled magery to back me up... so I should rock.

 

[PaulCH]

I'm sorry @Kyronix but this still leaves tamers with the #1 problem we have... I go to a champ spawn with friends while they are archers and throwers and all they swap weapons out to get the best effect bonus per level and I have ONE weapon... my pet I can't swap it whatever I bring has to be able to do it all...

It doesn't matter what fancy stuff other pets can do... I'm still going to be stuck with ONE weapon to bring no matter what pet I raise to 5 slots.

While this might help at say Lady M... or even at some other peerless or whatever it won't help at Doom since all the rooms have different weaknesses again I won't be able to get a new pet out to take to each room... I'm stuck with whatever I take down there in the first place...

Assuming that tamers should be able to swap out pets then isn't the solution to this one simple? Have a pet ball work both ways. If the pet is in stable then it calls the pet (assuming you have the control slots available) and if the pet is with you then you can send it back to the stable (assuming you have stable slots available). It could also be split into two crystal balls but doesn't seem necessary. You would have to carry a pet ball for each pet that you may want to call.