I'd like to know more about the pet revamp. Please give us a little taste!
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Pet Revamp: More Details Please!
- Thread starter Eric Ravenwind
- Start date
- Watchers 6
Search it. There were a couple threads and one asked for feedback and opinions.
Or wait here for it to be brought up again and complain that u didn't get what u wanted.
Ya know....UO style
Or wait here for it to be brought up again and complain that u didn't get what u wanted.
Ya know....UO style
Check out this newsletter and make sure you send in your feedback.
The major difference is in how you select the customization as the pet is trained up. Would you prefer a pre-packaged (reforging) approach or a more open selection (imbuing) approach?
It is like a straightforward answer, imbuing is so much better. It is like comparing the old advance character and later Mythic character package... one is fixed template but the other allows us to pick which skill to level up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
It is like a straightforward answer, imbuing is so much better. It is like comparing the old advance character and later Mythic character package... one is fixed template but the other allows us to pick which skill to level up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The imbuing approach sounds interesting. You can customize a pet for a specific mob.
Just make sure the new Lasher can be upgraded. If not, can 1 slot mounts be able to turn into containers?
Pet revamp will be fun at first... but I'll just say a few things that are very likely to happen as a result unless it's changed.
Greater dragons will be replaced with 5-slot Rune beetles. (armor corruption is too good, but the pet isn't able to tank much yet) =D
Every firebreath pet (rideable) will just go very high in +HP (defense), this is going to be used in pvp , to substitute/Replace dread-mares. (or even make dreads stronger), right now they can easily do 150-160 damage fire breath at full HP, after they get another +100 HP increase... they should be about 180-190 (it's capped at 200 btw) the damage cap shouldn't be far off...
(before targets resist is calculated)
Pack damage pets will continue to be unused because if they're leveled to increase their follower count, they will lose another slots worth of pack damage bonus.... (counter-productive)
It's still early yet, let's see if it gets changed to a more balanced system before release.
Someone that plays tamers more than I do would probably be able to point out even more problems with the current concept prior to release.... Tamers aren't really my thing.
Greater dragons will be replaced with 5-slot Rune beetles. (armor corruption is too good, but the pet isn't able to tank much yet) =D
Every firebreath pet (rideable) will just go very high in +HP (defense), this is going to be used in pvp , to substitute/Replace dread-mares. (or even make dreads stronger), right now they can easily do 150-160 damage fire breath at full HP, after they get another +100 HP increase... they should be about 180-190 (it's capped at 200 btw) the damage cap shouldn't be far off...
(before targets resist is calculated)Pack damage pets will continue to be unused because if they're leveled to increase their follower count, they will lose another slots worth of pack damage bonus.... (counter-productive)
It's still early yet, let's see if it gets changed to a more balanced system before release.
Someone that plays tamers more than I do would probably be able to point out even more problems with the current concept prior to release.... Tamers aren't really my thing.
Well, that depends on how the factor abilities into everything. Will armor corruption be a rune beetle unique? Will such a powerful ability count against other potential stats?
It's hard to say. I just hope youre wrong. I want to see lots of different pets out there!
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When it comes to Test Center, I am hoping both approaches (package and imbuing) will be available for testing.
While I would like to see some other pets get up to the level of a GD... I hope GD's still remain very viable as one of the top pets in-game. If they're going to be relegated to uselessness by a 5-slot Rainbow Unicorn... that's going to be a problem.
I'm really looking forward to hearing more about this, and as anxious I am to get to testing it, I hope the developers take their time and really think about all the repercussions there could be for tamers.
While I would like to see some other pets get up to the level of a GD... I hope GD's still remain very viable as one of the top pets in-game. If they're going to be relegated to uselessness by a 5-slot Rainbow Unicorn... that's going to be a problem.
I'm really looking forward to hearing more about this, and as anxious I am to get to testing it, I hope the developers take their time and really think about all the repercussions there could be for tamers.
@Kyronix
It is hard to really to pick just one when you are using Crafting Terms as a Pet Revamp.
With Imbuing a pet are we going to be required to obtain certain items to imbue with? What are the Imbuing weights going to be? Are we getting a %100 success rate when we pick what we want?
With the Reforge method are we going to get a tool like a runic and will we have different levels we can pick.
Without some basic ideas of how you intend for us to apply the upgrades then it is hard to pick just one.
Also since you are using Crafting Terms will there be a way to enhance our pets and will there be a Pet enhance tool in the store?
Are you considering allowing us to be able to use these methods on existing 5 slot pets that are not at max capacity? If not then a lot of Tamers could be very pissed when our GDs become extinct.
Will we be able to make a new 5 slot pet that is greater than a Great Dragon?
Without knowing some of the ideas/thoughts when you first came up with this is is hard to really say.
Can I turn a 1 slot pet horse into a pet with Rune Beetle abilities or are we going to be limited with the abilities that a pet already has?
How can we say we want this method of application when we have no clue as to what we are going to be able to apply.
What are the basic parameters and what is going to be the max limits we are allowed?
It is hard to really to pick just one when you are using Crafting Terms as a Pet Revamp.
With Imbuing a pet are we going to be required to obtain certain items to imbue with? What are the Imbuing weights going to be? Are we getting a %100 success rate when we pick what we want?
With the Reforge method are we going to get a tool like a runic and will we have different levels we can pick.
Without some basic ideas of how you intend for us to apply the upgrades then it is hard to pick just one.
Also since you are using Crafting Terms will there be a way to enhance our pets and will there be a Pet enhance tool in the store?
Are you considering allowing us to be able to use these methods on existing 5 slot pets that are not at max capacity? If not then a lot of Tamers could be very pissed when our GDs become extinct.
Will we be able to make a new 5 slot pet that is greater than a Great Dragon?
Without knowing some of the ideas/thoughts when you first came up with this is is hard to really say.
Can I turn a 1 slot pet horse into a pet with Rune Beetle abilities or are we going to be limited with the abilities that a pet already has?
How can we say we want this method of application when we have no clue as to what we are going to be able to apply.
What are the basic parameters and what is going to be the max limits we are allowed?
My comments from the Taming Forum...
First, we need to seperate the ability to level up stats/skills/resist from the ability to add abilities like HCI/DCI/HLD. Otherwise how would you ever add the abilities to a pet that doesn't level up.
Skills: I would recommend skill bands based on slots and to a lesser degree the starting skill. Slot 1 and 2 pets would remain capped at 100. Level 3 would increase cap to 105. Level 4 to 110, and level 5 to 120. Any skill above 120 would come from the natural taming process (GD can go over 120, so can rune beetle poisoning, etc). Addionally the percent of the cap achievable would be scaled by the percent of max skill when tamed. So if your nightmare starts with 92% of max wrestling, you would get 92% of the increased cap (109.2 instead of 110 at level 4). This would make looking for good skill pets at the time of taming relevant. Other skill changes: eliminate the skill loss when ressed by a player with vet. Allow pets to eat SoTs (training magery on pets is a disaster).
Resists: I would change to resist caps based on level unless exceeded by natural resist at taming. Level 1 pets would would bump to 30 in all resists, then add 10 for each level. This would get you to all 70 for a level 5 pets. Any resist over 70 would come from being tamed that way and would add 5 resist per level up (a Cu with 74 physical resist at taming would go to 79 at level 5). This would cap at 90.
Stats: Rebalance starting stats based on slot. Hp would have a 200 hp range per level starting at 0. Mana would have a 100 point range per level starting at 150. Stam would remain capped at 125 unless exceeded at the time of taming. Each level up would add a band (+200 hp and 100 mana per level up). Level 5 pets would cap at 1000hp and 650 mana.
Skills, resists, and stats would not be selectable by the player as they level up, but remain a function of the pet attributes at the time of taming. Finding a good pet to tame would still be important!
I would do abilities via some sort of quest system based on the ability you want to add. (Slay 50 lich lords for a DCI boost, etc) Each quest would add +5 of an ability and a pet would be capped at 5 quests. Maybe I want a 3 slot rune beetle with 25 HLD, or a pair of fire steeds with 25 DCI on one to tank and 25 HCI on the other. If you don't seperate the abilities from the slot increases, you basically hose any pet that you don't want to or can't level up.
Ultimately you would end up with pets whose strength is on par with its slots within a given range with the better pets based on taming level. Those pets would then be customized based on abilities added supplemented by the pets natural abilities.
Finally add some sort of timed effect to provide slayer bonus/vulnerablity. My vote is a seasoned tasty treat made by cooks.
First, we need to seperate the ability to level up stats/skills/resist from the ability to add abilities like HCI/DCI/HLD. Otherwise how would you ever add the abilities to a pet that doesn't level up.
Skills: I would recommend skill bands based on slots and to a lesser degree the starting skill. Slot 1 and 2 pets would remain capped at 100. Level 3 would increase cap to 105. Level 4 to 110, and level 5 to 120. Any skill above 120 would come from the natural taming process (GD can go over 120, so can rune beetle poisoning, etc). Addionally the percent of the cap achievable would be scaled by the percent of max skill when tamed. So if your nightmare starts with 92% of max wrestling, you would get 92% of the increased cap (109.2 instead of 110 at level 4). This would make looking for good skill pets at the time of taming relevant. Other skill changes: eliminate the skill loss when ressed by a player with vet. Allow pets to eat SoTs (training magery on pets is a disaster).
Resists: I would change to resist caps based on level unless exceeded by natural resist at taming. Level 1 pets would would bump to 30 in all resists, then add 10 for each level. This would get you to all 70 for a level 5 pets. Any resist over 70 would come from being tamed that way and would add 5 resist per level up (a Cu with 74 physical resist at taming would go to 79 at level 5). This would cap at 90.
Stats: Rebalance starting stats based on slot. Hp would have a 200 hp range per level starting at 0. Mana would have a 100 point range per level starting at 150. Stam would remain capped at 125 unless exceeded at the time of taming. Each level up would add a band (+200 hp and 100 mana per level up). Level 5 pets would cap at 1000hp and 650 mana.
Skills, resists, and stats would not be selectable by the player as they level up, but remain a function of the pet attributes at the time of taming. Finding a good pet to tame would still be important!
I would do abilities via some sort of quest system based on the ability you want to add. (Slay 50 lich lords for a DCI boost, etc) Each quest would add +5 of an ability and a pet would be capped at 5 quests. Maybe I want a 3 slot rune beetle with 25 HLD, or a pair of fire steeds with 25 DCI on one to tank and 25 HCI on the other. If you don't seperate the abilities from the slot increases, you basically hose any pet that you don't want to or can't level up.
Ultimately you would end up with pets whose strength is on par with its slots within a given range with the better pets based on taming level. Those pets would then be customized based on abilities added supplemented by the pets natural abilities.
Finally add some sort of timed effect to provide slayer bonus/vulnerablity. My vote is a seasoned tasty treat made by cooks.
Dog form archer tamer with a super beetle. Super dreads and banes are a given.
Here's a new one. Hiyru lowers physical and with moving shot changed to all physical it's going to be rough.
Imagine the templates if they give in and take away the tactics requirements.
Interesting ideas. So you want to go beyond the abilities that are on any pet currently in UO. Are you going to allow us to add those abilities to our current pet, if not there are a lot of pets out there that you have just made useless.
How are you going to balance PvP with your add-ons?
Reading the newsletter it sounds like a pet will naturally reach a level point while training it. He is using reforge and imbuing as examples of modification methods. With reforging you get an attribute from a group, but you cant choose the actual attribute. With imbuing you get to pick the exact attribute you want the pet to have.
Please don't make the gains cost us materials. Its enough of a pain to train up pets. At least for me.
What about 5 slot pets, will they be able to gain?
And will any pet type be able to increase its stats to a maximum level? Or do we still have to start with a high stat pet?
What about rideable pets that take 4 or less slots, will you still be able to mount them when they reach 5 slots?
I think it would be nice to use two nightmares or fire steeds and they combine their killing power equal to a GD. Instead of a five slot nightmare.
Which tamables will be able to be advanced? Should we allow a rat , cat or dog be as strong as a GD?
@Kyronix you opened this pandoras box, We need more detailed info if you want us involed.
I understand how all the Crafting Methods work and given that I just want to know the limits of what a MAX pet is going to be and will all my current pets become obsolete? Without knowing what is possible then picking a method is really useless.
The Dev's were the ones who mentioned things like DCI & HLA:
From the newsletter "For example, when your grizzly bear moved from control slot #1 -> #2, you would be able to select a full defense package that would increase a group of stats consisting of something like defense chance increase and hit lower attack, or you could select a full offense option that would include more offensive attributes like a bleed attack AI and hit physical damage"....
I think those attributes should be separated from the leveling up process... what if I want my Rune Beetle as a level 3, but want to give it some HCI? What about a GD or Turtle that can't be leveled up?
I couldn't figure out how to use that mail program to send in feedback, so ill post my wishes here.
Imbuing method all the way. BUT - nothing permanent. Let us swap abilities/properties in and out. Again, nothing permanent.
Imbuing method all the way. BUT - nothing permanent. Let us swap abilities/properties in and out. Again, nothing permanent.
I think the leveling up process should be perm, if you train up a Kit to a level 4 pet, I don't think you should be able to drop it back down to a 3.
However, it would be really cool if they gave each pet a talisman slot. Then make imbuable pet talismans to add properties just like a weapon... mana leech, life leech, DCI, Slayers... then tamers could carry a set of talismans like any other class carries weapons, spellbooks or instruments... and swap them out on the fly.
I just reread the link in post #5 and if they do all that then HELL NO TO ANY PET REVAMP because I might as well just release all my pets. Lets take a 1 slot horse and make it one ass kicking super Dread/GD/Rune 5 slot rideable pet, no ty. I can see the PvPers SCREAM when this hits and all the current Tamers. Do not add anything that does not currently exists on pets or the PvP Balance and current pets will just be ****.
I admit I did not read it %100 before and just went by posts and your was the first I read with it in it, TYVM.
Whatever the case may be. Start small and there HAS to be identification on pet level. Give us 3 pets to start with that people get to vote on. Say Grizzly Bear, White Wyrm, Lesser Hiryu. All pets when tamed are 0 Slots and have VERY low stats and do virtually no damage to players to not be Abused. Each level 1-5 has different armor applied "visually" I'd also like if it could be dyed as well "just a selfish idea there"
Armor Slots
Tail(Back) Shield -Level 1(1 slot)
Torso(Chest) Plate- Level 2(2 slot)
Arms/Legs Gauntlets- Level 3(3 slot)
Neck Shield- Level 4(4 slot)
Head Armor- Level 5(5 slot)
Each Level Allows you 2 properties selected from Group you pick
Offense, Defense,
You pick 1 Ability Each at Slot 4 and Slot 5 as well as two properties. That's 10 Properties and 2 Abilities at Max Level.
I'd personally like to be able to choose which skills I use as well. Be able to raise/lower. Skill cap of 720 All skills available capped at 120
each pet has innate abilities
Grizzly(Parry), White Wyrm(Cold Breath), Lesser Hiryu(Dismount) all of which need to be gained to be effective, but can't be removed or replaced.
When released after 6 hours ALL Slots, skills, abilities are reverted to 0. Imagine the trolling that could incite
Yes it's a lot of work but once the ground work is done it'll just be a matter or edit/add. 3 Pets every 6 months added will give plenty of meta game to keep people interested and continue investing time. Plus you can see first hand the pros/cons and what to tweak for the future. I'd said stick "classy" non freaking neon pet armor Dyes on the UO Store, gain some revenue from it, as well! Add stable Slot Increase scrolls(max 25 Slots). Account bound on purchase (each character can eat up to 25 and make them $2.99 a shot. So even the non tamers can add more Vanity Mounts, new mounts, companion tameables. You'll officially have the most in depth pet system in ANY MMORPG, and it'll all be user generated/created. They're be less need for new tameables because you can add any scroll/skill/gem or whatever to make the possibilities literally endless. Even if you don't go this type of route..start small, don't push a crazy bug filled patch out on us..again lol
....
Armor Slots
Tail(Back) Shield -Level 1(1 slot)
Torso(Chest) Plate- Level 2(2 slot)
Arms/Legs Gauntlets- Level 3(3 slot)
Neck Shield- Level 4(4 slot)
Head Armor- Level 5(5 slot)
Each Level Allows you 2 properties selected from Group you pick
Offense, Defense,
You pick 1 Ability Each at Slot 4 and Slot 5 as well as two properties. That's 10 Properties and 2 Abilities at Max Level.
I'd personally like to be able to choose which skills I use as well. Be able to raise/lower. Skill cap of 720 All skills available capped at 120
each pet has innate abilities
Grizzly(Parry), White Wyrm(Cold Breath), Lesser Hiryu(Dismount) all of which need to be gained to be effective, but can't be removed or replaced.
When released after 6 hours ALL Slots, skills, abilities are reverted to 0. Imagine the trolling that could incite
Yes it's a lot of work but once the ground work is done it'll just be a matter or edit/add. 3 Pets every 6 months added will give plenty of meta game to keep people interested and continue investing time. Plus you can see first hand the pros/cons and what to tweak for the future. I'd said stick "classy" non freaking neon pet armor Dyes on the UO Store, gain some revenue from it, as well! Add stable Slot Increase scrolls(max 25 Slots). Account bound on purchase (each character can eat up to 25 and make them $2.99 a shot. So even the non tamers can add more Vanity Mounts, new mounts, companion tameables. You'll officially have the most in depth pet system in ANY MMORPG, and it'll all be user generated/created. They're be less need for new tameables because you can add any scroll/skill/gem or whatever to make the possibilities literally endless. Even if you don't go this type of route..start small, don't push a crazy bug filled patch out on us..again lol
....
Wow, how did I miss this newsletter? After reading the pet revamp section, my first thought was why can't my rabbit become a level 5 vorpal bunny?
I love playing quirky tamers and I have a whole slew of them, but perhaps quirky tamer is the wrong term. Many of my pen handlers don't even have taming. Rabbits, dogs, slimes, mongbats, horses, pack horses, swamp dragons, etc. don't need taming to control. How will this system work with regards to the taming requirement for the pet? Will you have to have taming to bump it from a level 1 to level 2? Will we be able to keep the pets at level 1 and still control them with no taming?
Another question is, many of my pets are already mostly trained. That is, every skill GMed except magic resistance. Will this system suddenly bump them up to higher control slots and cause me troubles when I reactivate and login to those characters? How will the transition work so as not to cause me to lose pets I've worked hard to train?
Is this pet revamp strictly for tamers or does it encompass all followers like tinkered creatures and hirelings?
Just to help with the pet revamp, how about we start from the ground up and brainstorm the different aspects of pets that combine to determine their effectiveness. This is my brainstorm list straight off the top of my head:
1. Taming Requirement
2. Control Slots
3. Pack Instinct
4. Resists
5. Fully Trained Max Hit Points (a newly trained rabbit will have only a few hit points, but when fully trained it will be in the 100-130 range for instance)
6. Base Damage
7. Max Stats
8. Abilities
I'm sure others could mention additional aspects I've forgotten about.
As of right now, my most effective quirky pets are the pack instinct pets. A pack of fully trained timber wolves or even a pack of fully trained pack horses does more damage than one might expect for creatures that require no taming to control. The biggest surprise pet of mine was probably the frost spiders. They were so weak when first tamed, but once fully trained their damage output was incredible due to pack instinct and cold damage. I would take them to some of the events and easily get top damage rights above those using greater dragons. The downside is their survivability. Their middling hit points and resists means they tend to die much quicker to those area attack creatures. I've been meaning to try a wolf spider/frost spider combo (either 2 Wolf Spiders and 1 Frost or 1 Wolf Spider and 3 Frost Spiders) but as SA accounts are more expensive to create, I haven't gotten around to it yet.
While we're at it, can we ask for a few creatures to be added to the tameable list? I would love to tame black widows, wyverns, and giant serpents and I don't think they'd be overpowered pets by any stretch.
Sorry for how meandering this post is but I'm just getting all my thoughts out. The following was the email I sent in before seeing this Newsletter:
I also just had another idea for the super weak pets out there, like rabbits. As it stands, a pack of fully trained rabbits or mongbats and take down an ogre, but it's a rather long battle. It sounds like you don't mean to give the super weak pets the ability to climb to the top tier of combat pets and that fine but the primary objective of the pet revamps, to me, seems to be about encouraging more diversity in pet use. These super weak pets might never be great fighters, but what if they were valuable in some other way? What if they could be upgraded to become resurrectors, like Wandering Healers but with a cool down timer between resurrections to prevent abuse on the pvp side. Players could bring them to the more inconvenient hunting grounds far from wandering healers or bring them to EM Events freeing up EMs from having to provide wandering healers which sometimes get killed by EVs and Rising Colossi anyway.
I love playing quirky tamers and I have a whole slew of them, but perhaps quirky tamer is the wrong term. Many of my pen handlers don't even have taming. Rabbits, dogs, slimes, mongbats, horses, pack horses, swamp dragons, etc. don't need taming to control. How will this system work with regards to the taming requirement for the pet? Will you have to have taming to bump it from a level 1 to level 2? Will we be able to keep the pets at level 1 and still control them with no taming?
Another question is, many of my pets are already mostly trained. That is, every skill GMed except magic resistance. Will this system suddenly bump them up to higher control slots and cause me troubles when I reactivate and login to those characters? How will the transition work so as not to cause me to lose pets I've worked hard to train?
Is this pet revamp strictly for tamers or does it encompass all followers like tinkered creatures and hirelings?
Just to help with the pet revamp, how about we start from the ground up and brainstorm the different aspects of pets that combine to determine their effectiveness. This is my brainstorm list straight off the top of my head:
1. Taming Requirement
2. Control Slots
3. Pack Instinct
4. Resists
5. Fully Trained Max Hit Points (a newly trained rabbit will have only a few hit points, but when fully trained it will be in the 100-130 range for instance)
6. Base Damage
7. Max Stats
8. Abilities
- Pack Animal
- Fire Breath
- Poison
- Combat Maneuver
- Affect Controller (Armored Swamp Dragon)
- Magic
- Damage Type
- Quirks (I made a dark wolf tamer that had enough taming to bond a pack of dire wolves, then dropped taming and command them using a dark wolf familiar)
- Healing (Cu Sidhe)
- Smelting (Fire Beetle)
- Mount
- Mining (Iron Beetle)
I'm sure others could mention additional aspects I've forgotten about.
As of right now, my most effective quirky pets are the pack instinct pets. A pack of fully trained timber wolves or even a pack of fully trained pack horses does more damage than one might expect for creatures that require no taming to control. The biggest surprise pet of mine was probably the frost spiders. They were so weak when first tamed, but once fully trained their damage output was incredible due to pack instinct and cold damage. I would take them to some of the events and easily get top damage rights above those using greater dragons. The downside is their survivability. Their middling hit points and resists means they tend to die much quicker to those area attack creatures. I've been meaning to try a wolf spider/frost spider combo (either 2 Wolf Spiders and 1 Frost or 1 Wolf Spider and 3 Frost Spiders) but as SA accounts are more expensive to create, I haven't gotten around to it yet.
While we're at it, can we ask for a few creatures to be added to the tameable list? I would love to tame black widows, wyverns, and giant serpents and I don't think they'd be overpowered pets by any stretch.
Sorry for how meandering this post is but I'm just getting all my thoughts out. The following was the email I sent in before seeing this Newsletter:
First, I'd like to see a Veterinary Mastery. The main ability I'd like to see with a Veterinary Mastery is the ability to use the veterinary skill on all followers at the same time. If I'm fighting, say a lich, with my flock, they are likely all going to get hit with withers. It would be nice to keep them all alive. This ability isn't just for me, however. It would make more serious pet combinations more viable. You might actually see hell hound tamers, tamers with rune beetles and nightmares again, and tamers running around with spider and ostard packs.
The second thing I would like to see is to allow pets to have the same resist benefit players get from magic resistance. Maybe not the same caps, but you guys can balance test that. The idea is to give weaker pets a means of surviving more difficult battles as they gain in skill.
Finally, I realize my flocks of sheep and pigs will never be great in battle. It makes sense but one of the things I thought might be cool is to give these weak sort of pets the benefit of conveying a luck boost to their tamer. These weak pets require no taming, so every player out there could benefit from it if they wished to deal with a flock.
I also had an old idea for a few (at the time) useless skills. It falls more as a follower revamp rather than a pet revamp, but the idea was to turn item identification into the leadership skill and turn begging into persuasion. The leadership skill would be like the taming skill except that it would be used for leading NPCs rather than tames and the persuasion skill would be the support skill while still maintaining the begging aspect of it. After all, what is begging but to persuade someone to give you something? I thought the leadership level could dictate the caps on skills your NPCs could learn. So if you have 50 leadership, the NPCs would only fight at 50 in their combat and tactics skill. The one thing that would set the NPCs apart is the ability to be able to outfit them with equipment. There could be all sorts of strategy on what types of weapons to use for special maneuvers as well as magical effects. Inns would serve as stables for these NPCs and they would require food and gold to maintain loyalty and bond.
The second thing I would like to see is to allow pets to have the same resist benefit players get from magic resistance. Maybe not the same caps, but you guys can balance test that. The idea is to give weaker pets a means of surviving more difficult battles as they gain in skill.
Finally, I realize my flocks of sheep and pigs will never be great in battle. It makes sense but one of the things I thought might be cool is to give these weak sort of pets the benefit of conveying a luck boost to their tamer. These weak pets require no taming, so every player out there could benefit from it if they wished to deal with a flock.
I also had an old idea for a few (at the time) useless skills. It falls more as a follower revamp rather than a pet revamp, but the idea was to turn item identification into the leadership skill and turn begging into persuasion. The leadership skill would be like the taming skill except that it would be used for leading NPCs rather than tames and the persuasion skill would be the support skill while still maintaining the begging aspect of it. After all, what is begging but to persuade someone to give you something? I thought the leadership level could dictate the caps on skills your NPCs could learn. So if you have 50 leadership, the NPCs would only fight at 50 in their combat and tactics skill. The one thing that would set the NPCs apart is the ability to be able to outfit them with equipment. There could be all sorts of strategy on what types of weapons to use for special maneuvers as well as magical effects. Inns would serve as stables for these NPCs and they would require food and gold to maintain loyalty and bond.
I also just had another idea for the super weak pets out there, like rabbits. As it stands, a pack of fully trained rabbits or mongbats and take down an ogre, but it's a rather long battle. It sounds like you don't mean to give the super weak pets the ability to climb to the top tier of combat pets and that fine but the primary objective of the pet revamps, to me, seems to be about encouraging more diversity in pet use. These super weak pets might never be great fighters, but what if they were valuable in some other way? What if they could be upgraded to become resurrectors, like Wandering Healers but with a cool down timer between resurrections to prevent abuse on the pvp side. Players could bring them to the more inconvenient hunting grounds far from wandering healers or bring them to EM Events freeing up EMs from having to provide wandering healers which sometimes get killed by EVs and Rising Colossi anyway.
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I'm not seeing why you think the pets we already have will be useless. But, the devs will have to decide if a fully trained pet will be able to upgrade immediately when the system goes live. Maybe a fully trained pet will be able to upgrade as soon as it goes live and we can determine which pets we want to keep. I have a stable full of oddball pets that are only bank sitters, it would be nice to use some of them.
I think an ideal system would allow almost any tamable to have as much killing power as the highest pet in the new system. A tamer would be able to tame a pet and build it up. That way we can choose what we want to hunt with.
Of course some pets should not be able to scale up. I don't want a cat, rat, or squirrel to be a high powered pet. But, some may want to have that ability as long as the time required is high.
As for the DCI and stuff. It sounds like it is going to happen. I agree with you that this will be a PvP nightmare to balance. And it will most likely reduce PvM tamers abilities when that SCREAM occurs.
I think we should be able to have either a 5 slot super pet of any type or have some pets become a pair of 5 slot pets equal to it. I would like to have choices and not see everyone with the new version of a GD.
Remember: Reading is Fundamental.
I'm thinking that training up a Blue beetle or something to be a 5 slot pet would make it require taming. Same with a Hiryu or something... I would hate to see what would happen if non-tamers could have a 5 slot hiryu... Something to think about... though I will say having a 5 slot blue beetle on my fisherman would be pretty sweet... the 3 slot one he has pretty well trained up rocks killing sea serps... he has a bit of trouble with the deep serpents but he survives.
Hehe, no one would do more damage with moving shot if they dropped tactics, doesn't matter what the resistance of the target is... also, the "onlsaught" mechanic that hiryu's use to drop physical resist doesn't effect the resistance cap, so people are essentially immune to it already because of well over 100% in all resistances is extremely easy to do without trying.
couple that with the randomness of the lower resistance going off it's not something the player has much control over. which is another big reason people won't bother with it.
New Skill ... animal training.
Players should not be able to train pets in this way ... a swordsman cant imbue his weapons or armour without the correct skill (ie imbuing). Why should a tamer be able to do it for free.
Players should not be able to train pets in this way ... a swordsman cant imbue his weapons or armour without the correct skill (ie imbuing). Why should a tamer be able to do it for free.
Move along. Already need taming and lore. Your swordsman has Imbuing, tailoring, and smith? Really...
I never said he did. My point is to imbue his weapons he would need it. Animal Training should be required to train an animal especially as it is already being likened to imbuing, but you want it for free.
Great post. Never really bothered playing a tamer and I found this entirely helpful. I would like to see you part of the generic discussions with the devs. It seems you could help balance it for the most part.
What I would like to do is ask a couple questions and see how applicable it would be.
Why can't we do both; Reforging and Imbuing? Reforging having a chance to over cap while not being able to really be specific in your choices, and imbuing allowing a player to just pick and take a slight debuff. I mean, if we are discussing two systems that we currently now have 8 years of experience and data on, why not base it off of it?
I like the generalized concept on paper, but I really cannot comprehend a fully tailored pet. I would hope a level 5 would not be rideable, but this is based on PvP only. Being able to craft a pets template much like your own, or making one complementing your template sounds really fun. But I see a lot of potential OP situations unfolding as well.
I am very intrigued to follow this dialog. I will only interject if/when I see issues in pvp.
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You may very well be right about the phy drop. I haven't tested. This should be changed like corpse skin though. Heh.
I mean if they remove tactics you'll have people basically with archery only for discounts and mortals while having revamped pets and other offensive skills as well.
You may very well be right about the phy drop. I haven't tested. This should be changed like corpse skin though. Heh.
All my pets are fully trained and will not get all these BS BONUSES. You are ASSUMING we will get upgrades. When have they ever upgraded old pets when they change them for the good, NEVER but they will sure throw the derf stick at them in a heart beat. Seriously why are they even thinking about adding all this stuff to pets, IMHO it is stupid and I can't wait till the PvPers figure this all out. Tamers will rule PvP and PvM.
I'm not a pvper but what's the landscape of tamers in pvp now? Are the tamer pvpers just running around with greater dragons/dragon turtles or are they using other pets?
yeah, they need to fix that, same thing with "Onslaught" swords mastery doesn't reduce cap resistance, so it's useless in pvp... though it is effective in pvm.
There are hardly any but dreadmares and bane dragons. You might find a dragon tamer if you're crashing a spawn.
The problem is they are talking about having other abilities beside skills on pets. Could you see a pet with HCI, DCI,SDI, or any other modifiers on them. When GDs first came out they were to powerful so they nerfed them and now we have this pet revamp coming and with all the add ons how powerful will they become and when will the nerf stick fall.
I think it is important to make 5 slot ridable pets a little weaker than the Greater Dragon, otherwise it could cause problems in pvp. It would also make Greater Dragons obsolete in pvm if ridable pets can be trained to be just as strong. Capping rideable pets at 4 slots could work as well.
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Please... don't give them ideas. I'd love for my subscription to still count for something other than access. :/
I would assume (dangerous I know) that pets get a "slot" every "level", and that include all levels the pet had when tamed. Otherwise pets that were initially 1 follower slot would be inherently superior, which would be silly.
I'm guessing it's a bump in stats per level (or a bump in stat caps) and one "slot" per follower slot to be filled whenever.
My real wonder is what will the methods of "training" the pet to fill those slots be? Can you just adjust it on the fly? Is it permanent? It is redoable at a cost? I would personally hope you could reset it, but not any time.
The way I would do it is both imbuing style and reforging style. Imbuing style you get exactly what you want, reforging is more random but with better potential results. Then make it cost x or require rare item x to reset a pet.
Skills, Stats and Resists, and now I am ASSUMING, because they have not said %100 will all go up as the pet goes from one lvl to the next which I think is great BUT and here is the WTF over I have no clue as to the reasoning behind it. From the Newsletter Ultima Online Newsletter we will be able to add abilities that are not normally on pets right now, REFORGE you would be able to select a full defense package that would increase a group of stats consisting of something like defense chance increase and hit lower attack, or you could select a full offense option that would include more offensive attributes like a bleed attack AI and hit physical damage. And under Imbuing we will be given X amount of points and apply them to the pet and be able to add attributes that are not normally on pets.
I would love to hear from a DEV as to WHY they did this. Whose brain child is this and who asked for all these new additions, what is the reasoning behind it and who is going to attempt to BALANCE PvP out after we get new pets with special abilities that are not on any list currently on pets now. I honestly am totally confused and IMHO this "PET REVAMP" is going to do way more harm than good for UO and alls that is going to happen is the DEVs will throw the NERF STICK at it to try and rebalance things out.
A level 5 pet should never be rideable. You can't ride a GD, you shouldn't be able to ride a dread with identical stats. Give gargoyle the perc of flying while controlling, but it should never count as a hard mount.
I think everyone is jumping too fast on how this is going to work. I haven't read anywhere that states a dread would even be close to a greater dragon.
Honestly, judging from the newsletter, I think we'll all be fine. It looks like we'll be able to change elemental damage and specials. If we can bump up the resists a little I don't see a problem at all.
That whole thing is going to need to be clarified more down the road when the time comes anyway.. most of us payed to upgrade our acccount(s) to the most up-to-date expansions/boosters.. if we stop paying (based on what's been discussed with that so far) the only "access" we lose would be vet-rewards & housing.... I actually have two accounts active that do not have houses right now... lol so I guess I'd get all that free, later on? Like I said, that needs to be cleared up if the game continues to head this F2P route...
It would be good if they opened F2P for Fel only. Talk about an increase in fel population...
The drift I get is that F2P is going to be nothing more than a Trial Account without the 14 day timer and if you look at the restrictions it would not help current accounts that have scrolled out players and alls it would do for FEL is to give more sheep to kill, so no F2P would do nothing for FEL.
Yeah, I was referring to if an account has been paid for and upgraded previously (most existing accounts), what happens if people stop paying for them? do they become down-graded, or do they just lose house-placement & vet-rewards?
honesty, one-two accounts with xfer shield accessibility is more than enough for me to supply my remaining 7 accounts on every shard.
of course my main interest in UO is the pvp... so that's a thing.
Anyway, the pet revamp doesn't even need to happen... all that has to happen for pets is a way to make certain pets more defensive and others more offensive. This can be done with items that change the pets attributes when applied to them, and it has been suggested by myself and several other players throughout the last few years...
Also allowing pets to consume powerscrolls (wrestling, Tactics, anatomy etc) would go a long way in bumping up the comparability with some of the higher-end pets.
the problems with tamers is that they take forever to kill anything and they can mostly only kill one target at a time...
What would be the point if the most powerful pet is still a greater dragon. You cant see anything at events.
Would be nice if any tamable could build up to be as good as a GD. Once they pass 4 slots you wouldn't be able to ride them I'm sure.
A little variety in pets would be nice.
On the F2P accounts IMHO I think they will make them with all the restrictions. All 100+ skills will be set to 100 and if you resub then you get them back. How many chars do Trial accounts get? You may have to lose some chars. What version of UO is the basic download, you may be reverted to that type of account with no increased storage of allowed to use a lot of the new equipment.
As far as the revamp goes I personally thing a pet should just go up in Stats, Skills, Resists and any special ability they currently have. I have no clue as to why they are even considering adding in all the other stuff.