NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes Update on TC1

[Old Vet Back Again]

I just gave you the numbers showing that its at minimum a 300% increase, that's if the person has resist spells and isn't cursed or corpse. It goes even higher to like 500% if all that falls into place. What more can I do then hard fact proven math for you to understand? @Old Vet Back Again

Math must not be your strongest attribute. Let's use the numbers you guys are using:
0 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 22 damage.
50 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 27 damage.
50 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 13 damage
0 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 6 damage (done for the lolz to see how low the damage went.)

We know that 50EP = 13 and 50ep + Alchemy = 27 so the increase is 14dmg

Find the percent of increase from 4 to 6.

Amount of increase is 6 − 4 = 2

Original amount is 4

2 / 4 = 0.50

multiply 0.50 by one hundred to get the answer as a percent.

Find the percent of increase from 13 to 27.

Amount of increase is 27 − 13 = 14

Original amount is 13

14/13 = 1.0769

multiply 1.0769 by one hundred to get the answer as a percent.

100 X 1.0769 = 107.7%

107.7% is nowhere near 300% or 500%

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Everything was fine with alchemy before Supernovas became a thing. thus, Supernovas should me removed OR they shouldn't gain a bonus from alchemy. (that's what I think about it anyway)

The more I think about it. It would probably be in the games best interest to just remove all consumable-enhancing effects & skills form the game. and make all consumable items function at the same level for everyone. This way, it would just open up Viable Options.

After all... "Please, no more RNG to mage pvp, Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!"

Here is where you lost me. You are on the extreme spectrum. Calling for a removal of all of the consumables further promotes the people calling you and cossak out for not using them, it also makes it seem as though you are advocating for these things to fit your play style. This is 2016 and the current meta has been the most fun in a long time. Following your logic will only hurt players that fight out numbered and that is something I cannot agree with.

The reason I took your quote was to imply it towards mage dueling, which unfortunately is archaic and not interesting to the current player base. I wish it was still relevant, but it's not.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Math must not be your strongest attribute. Let's use the numbers you guys are using:
0 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 22 damage.
50 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 27 damage.
50 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 13 damage
0 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 6 damage (done for the lolz to see how low the damage went.)

We know that 50EP = 13 and 50ep + Alchemy = 27 so the increase is 14dmg

Find the percent of increase from 4 to 6.

Amount of increase is 6 − 4 = 2

Original amount is 4

2 / 4 = 0.50

multiply 0.50 by one hundred to get the answer as a percent.

Find the percent of increase from 13 to 27.

Amount of increase is 27 − 13 = 14

Original amount is 13

14/13 = 1.0769

multiply 1.0769 by one hundred to get the answer as a percent.

100 X 1.0769 = 107.7%

107.7% is nowhere near 300% or 500%

While I don't confirm any of these numbers (I haven't tested it in a while, and don't have access to my old spreadsheet I made on it), but you realize alchemy is suppose to give 30% bonus, not 107.7% (If this is correct) right?

Imagine if Lumberjacking damage bonus was 107.7% instead of 30% ?????

An ornate axe that hit's all 70s with a crushing blow AT THE MOMENT WITH NO LJ BONUS does 32-36.....
An ornate axe that hit's a cursed target at 60 resist with a crushing blow AT THE MOMENT WITH NO LJ BONUS does 43-50 ........

So using your alchemy "100 skill points should -CERTAINLY GIVE 107.7% BONUS!!!!" argument...

A dexxer with LJ could do 66-74 to all 70s resist with crushing blows
A dexxer with LJ could do 89-103 to a cursed target with crushing blows


So let's make all the crafting skill formulas operate like EP and Alchemy. I mean, it is only fair right?

BECAUSE 100 SKILL POINTS IS WORTH IT!!

/SARCASM

C'mon man.........

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

While I don't confirm any of these numbers (I haven't tested it in a while, and don't have access to my old spreadsheet I made on it), but you realize alchemy is suppose to give 30% bonus, not 107.7% (If this is correct) right?

Imagine if Lumberjacking damage bonus was 107.7% instead of 30% ?????

An ornate axe that hit's all 70s with a crushing blow AT THE MOMENT WITH NO LJ BONUS does 32-36.....
An ornate axe that hit's a cursed target at 60 resist with a crushing blow AT THE MOMENT WITH NO LJ BONUS does 43-50 ........

So using your alchemy "100 skill points should -CERTAINLY GIVE 107.7% BONUS!!!!" argument...

A dexxer with LJ could do 66-74 to all 70s resist with crushing blows
A dexxer with LJ could do 89-103 to a cursed target with crushing blows


So let's make all the crafting skill formulas operate like EP and Alchemy. I mean, it is only fair right?

BECAUSE 100 SKILL POINTS IS WORTH IT!!

/SARCASM

C'mon man.........

How come no one can accurately compare two scenarios. You have a weapons base dmg, you have DI and then an additional increase of 30%. Of ****ing course they wouldn't have it comparable to alchemy. C'mon man! I'm trying to find a compromise, but you're just grasping at straws.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

And guys, everyone keeps calling for mage dueling being "RUINED" by poison immunity and casting focus. I will safely assume NONE of you mage dueled PRE-AOS.

You know...

No fast cast
No fast cast recovery
No spell cancelling (you had to equip a candle to cancel it out)
No unlimited regs
No lower mana cost
No mana regen
HORRIBLE meditation Mana Regen
No weaken curse weaken magic arrow weaken harm poison weaken magic arrow poison harm weaken ...... etc ..... spam ..............


Yeah, you get the point. I literally laugh when people say mage dueling was "A THING" anytime after February 2003.


You used to have to plan your attacks. Never get too low on mana. Predict opponents next move. Have a heal or cure prepped... etc. Things people will never know.


The closest ANYONE will get to dueling like back in the day would be to be naked, 50 to 100 of each reg. No FC/No FCR. 225 stat cap. GM Resist. GM Magery. Gm Eval. 40 Med. Hell, you can even have GM wrestle if you want.


If you want to start mage dueling like that, then you'll remember "The good ol days" and I can jump aboard.

This new age "DUELING" crap is nothing more than who has better latency, and who gets lucky with hitting a 50% poison 3 to 4 times in a small window. (Assuming both duelers are on a similar skill level).


This is why I find it funny when people say "DUEL FOR BILLIONS?!" And I say, sure let's get on a free server? Because, that was real dueling.

 

[Skalazar]

Mage Dueling was fine pre aos and it was fine for a long time post aos.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

How come no one can accurately compare two scenarios. You have a weapons base dmg, you have DI and then an additional increase of 30%. Of ****ing course they wouldn't have it comparable to alchemy. C'mon man! I'm trying to find a compromise, but you're just grasping at straws.

How is it grasping at straws? Because Alchemy's formula is broken and Lumberjacking's (In this scenario) isn't?

Both are crafting skills. Both increase damage of something. Both use 100% skill. Both are SUPPOSE to only increase "said" damage by 30%.

I mean... I am just asking. Seems pretty similar to me?

Would you rather me use inscribe? I mean, we can have spell damage doing 107.7% increased instead for inscribe too. It's a crafting skill, right?

 

[Great DC]

Yeah its that % for novas, it goes from 2 dmg to 7 dmg on a conflag and even more on explosion potions. It does very close to 300% on conflags. Keep testing and show all the numbers for pots like everyone else did and tell me something is not wrong. Also the current meta is definitely not skilled at all. Everyone is playing a 2-3 button High DPS template that requires the same amount of brain cells as a squirrel finding an acorn. ITs not rocket science, you want them cause apparently your useless without it.

 

[drcossack]

How come no one can accurately compare two scenarios. You have a weapons base dmg, you have DI and then an additional increase of 30%. Of ****ing course they wouldn't have it comparable to alchemy. C'mon man! I'm trying to find a compromise, but you're just grasping at straws.

Yeah, because Nova pots don't have a base minimum damage or anything. Oh wait. THEY DO. That was another reason why I wanted to test Supernova damage with no modifiers from EP/Alchemy.

Trying to find a compromise? How? You're not offering ONE suggestion that people would possibly agree with. I suggested toning down the damage bonus because it's too high. Your response:

Stating I am willing to reach a compromise does not state that I acknowledge there is an issue. It means I am willing to entertain a middle ground, but it seems that you are not. I would never agree to investing 100 skill points and only getting a 30% increase to EP.

If you're not willing to acknowledge that there's an issue, even after posting that it was a 107.7% increase, I don't know what to tell you. But if you're going to continue to leave your head in the sand on it, there's no compromising or a middle ground.

Here is where you lost me. You are on the extreme spectrum. Calling for a removal of all of the consumables further promotes the people calling you and cossak out for not using them, it also makes it seem as though you are advocating for these things to fit your play style. This is 2016 and the current meta has been the most fun in a long time. Following your logic will only hurt players that fight out numbered and that is something I cannot agree with.

A couple months ago, I ran into a couple people in Despise on LS, who I had fought before. One was a Necro-Mage in Wraith Form, the other was an Archer. I used my standard assortment of consumables (heal, cure, agility, str, refresh, apples) and killed both of them without any problems. Didn't need a single Supernova or Conflag; I just took advantage of their weaknesses - stam-blocking the Archer with spawn, and the Necro was in Protection/unable to mount. That, to me, was more fun than most of the fights I've had on Atlantic. It wasn't because of how easily I won, or how unskilled the other two were. It actually took some thinking/maneuvering to get them into situations where I could easily deal with both of them.

What exactly is fun about a meta that revolves around "do as much damage as possible in a short amount of time"? I can understand the appeal of it, I suppose, but I'd quickly get bored with it and go back to a less dps-oriented template.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Yeah its that % for novas, it goes from 2 dmg to 7 dmg on a conflag and even more on explosion potions. It does very close to 300% on conflags. Keep testing and show all the numbers for pots like everyone else did and tell me something is not wrong. Also the current meta is definitely not skilled at all. Everyone is playing a 2-3 button High DPS template that requires the same amount of brain cells as a squirrel finding an acorn. ITs not rocket science, you want them cause apparently your useless without it.

Greater Conflagration 4-8 Damage Fire Field
8dmg x .80 = 6.4 dmg inc with 80ep.
8+6.4= 14.4 dmg
If the user of conflagration potions has any alchemy skill the damage will be increased by 1 for every 13 points of alchemy skill the user has.
The effects of Enhance Potion items are also added to conflagration potions.
100/13 = 7.69

14.4 + 7.69 = 22.09

22-8 = 14
14/8= 1.75
1.75 x 100= 175

Conflags with 50 EP and 100 alchemy = a 175% increase not consider 70 fire resist or 60 if cursed.

I can provide figures, they are accessible to everyone. Maybe you should glance over them to help better your understanding?

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Yeah, because Nova pots don't have a base minimum damage or anything. Oh wait. THEY DO. That was another reason why I wanted to test Supernova damage with no modifiers from EP/Alchemy.

Trying to find a compromise? How? You're not offering ONE suggestion that people would possibly agree with. I suggested toning down the damage bonus because it's too high. Your response:



If you're not willing to acknowledge that there's an issue, even after posting that it was a 107.7% increase, I don't know what to tell you. But if you're going to continue to leave your head in the sand on it, there's no compromising or a middle ground.

Reduce the added bonus from alchemy skill. Keep 80ep as is. Find a way to drop nova down to 18-22dmg after curse. There is my compromise

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

How is it grasping at straws? Because Alchemy's formula is broken and Lumberjacking's (In this scenario) isn't?

Both are crafting skills. Both increase damage of something. Both use 100% skill. Both are SUPPOSE to only increase "said" damage by 30%.

I mean... I am just asking. Seems pretty similar to me?

Would you rather me use inscribe? I mean, we can have spell damage doing 107.7% increased instead for inscribe too. It's a crafting skill, right?

It's not broken because it is factoring a very small base damage and calculating a dmg modifier to bring the potion to a practical use. If Nova had a base dmg of 15, then yea a 107% inc would be insane. Comparing it to crafting skills is just plain dumb because what the crafting skill is complimenting is different from the next.

 

[drcossack]

Reduce the added bonus from alchemy skill. Keep 80ep as is. Find a way to drop nova down to 18-22dmg after curse. There is my compromise

Which are all things I've proposed in the past week, or in this very thread...

 

[Great DC]

LOLOLOL. Thanks for PROVING the calculation is BROKEN again. Does 30% = 175% in your math too? That's what it supposed to add.

 

[CovenantX]

Here is where you lost me. You are on the extreme spectrum. Calling for a removal of all of the consumables further promotes the people calling you and cossak out for not using them, it also makes it seem as though you are advocating for these things to fit your play style.

The reason I say "Removal" is because of this. it would be "better" If one skill (Alchemy) is no longer in play because Scribe & Poisoning are both viable options. are they viable now? Sure, but they are not viable when compared to the benefits of Alchemy.


It really has nothing to do with someone using potions or not. you can use any damaging potions, shatter potions (basically anything that's not defensive) without a hand free.
I don't use potions on all my characters, but the ones with 50% EP I will... the ones I have alchemy on, there's no way I wouldn't use potions.

This is 2016 and the current meta has been the most fun in a long time. Following your logic will only hurt players that fight out numbered and that is something I cannot agree with.

You lost me with the "Most Fun" in a long time, because there is no "fun" when it's the same fights with the same people, on the same two-three templates over and over again.

What happened to all the players that moved to free shards? Did they quit because $10-13 a month is too much?

I personally know 3 people that said they would come back if Tactics wasn't required for specials and spec-toggling while casting restrictions were removed... it's because changes like that limit choices, and Choices are what this game has Always been about. I know of several people that enjoyed Mage Dueling, and said when the randomness gets taken out of it they'd play again.

Hell, most of our guild is inactive because of bad decisions made by the devs that affected PVP. There's literally 3 people in our guild (actually our alliance....) that are even playing now, that is including myself and like... lol, I play Stratics MORE than I play UO.

The reason I took your quote was to imply it towards mage dueling, which unfortunately is archaic and not interesting to the current player base. I wish it was still relevant, but it's not.

I know, I still remember you asking me if you could use it quite a while back, but if you apply that to the entirety of Pvp, instead of just Dueling. Pvp as a whole would be more engaging for everyone. group play would include more coordination instead of hoping the dice rolls are better for one group over the other at any given time.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

LOLOLOL. Thanks for PROVING the calculation is BROKEN again. Does 30% = 175% in your math too? That's what it supposed to add.

Dude, are you illiterate??

There is a 30% EP bonus from alchemy and also an added dmg modifier for every 13 skill points that stacks on top of the EP bonus. It's not suppose to add to 30%.

Alchemy Potions – Ultima Online

There is a link that explains everything you need to know.

 

[Great DC]

I baited you into showing all the super high percentages for everyone to read. Congrats for biting on my legendary fisherman on stratics. LOLOL

 

[PaithanTheElf]

And guys, everyone keeps calling for mage dueling being "RUINED" by poison immunity and casting focus. I will safely assume NONE of you mage dueled PRE-AOS.

You know...

No fast cast
No fast cast recovery
No spell cancelling (you had to equip a candle to cancel it out)
No unlimited regs
No lower mana cost
No mana regen
HORRIBLE meditation Mana Regen
No weaken curse weaken magic arrow weaken harm poison weaken magic arrow poison harm weaken ...... etc ..... spam ..............


Yeah, you get the point. I literally laugh when people say mage dueling was "A THING" anytime after February 2003.


You used to have to plan your attacks. Never get too low on mana. Predict opponents next move. Have a heal or cure prepped... etc. Things people will never know.


The closest ANYONE will get to dueling like back in the day would be to be naked, 50 to 100 of each reg. No FC/No FCR. 225 stat cap. GM Resist. GM Magery. Gm Eval. 40 Med. Hell, you can even have GM wrestle if you want.


If you want to start mage dueling like that, then you'll remember "The good ol days" and I can jump aboard.

This new age "DUELING" crap is nothing more than who has better latency, and who gets lucky with hitting a 50% poison 3 to 4 times in a small window. (Assuming both duelers are on a similar skill level).


This is why I find it funny when people say "DUEL FOR BILLIONS?!" And I say, sure let's get on a free server? Because, that was real dueling.

You can't emulate dueling back then under any circumstance. Time to move on (for a long time now). You can't take a flame strike and actually resist it and take 2 damage. Stats had to be close or mind blast would **** you up... there is a lot that no longer exists now in dueling. RIP. But it was fun AOS for a while as well, completely different dueling though. Now it is irrelevant.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

The reason I say "Removal" is because of this. it would be "better" If one skill (Alchemy) is no longer in play because Scribe & Poisoning are both viable options. are they viable now? Sure, but they are not viable when compared to the benefits of Alchemy.


It really has nothing to do with someone using potions or not. you can use any damaging potions, shatter potions (basically anything that's not defensive) without a hand free.
I don't use potions on all my characters, but the ones with 50% EP I will... the ones I have alchemy on, there's no way I wouldn't use potions.




You lost me with the "Most Fun" in a long time, because there is no "fun" when it's the same fights with the same people, on the same two-three templates over and over again.

What happened to all the players that moved to free shards? Did they quit because $10-13 a month is too much?

I personally know 3 people that said they would come back if Tactics wasn't required for specials and spec-toggling while casting restrictions were removed... it's because changes like that limit choices, and Choices are what this game has Always been about. I know of several people that enjoyed Mage Dueling, and said when the randomness gets taken out of it they'd play again.

Hell, most of our guild is inactive because of bad decisions made by the devs that affected PVP. There's literally 3 people in our guild (actually our alliance....) that are even playing now, that is including myself and like... lol, I play Stratics MORE than I play UO.



I know, I still remember you asking me if you could use it quite a while back, but if you apply that to the entirety of Pvp, instead of just Dueling. Pvp as a whole would be more engaging for everyone. group play would include more coordination instead of hoping the dice rolls are better for one group over the other at any given time.

I can have fun fighting the same temps over. I just enjoy pvp.

 

[CovenantX]

I can have fun fighting the same temps over. I just enjoy pvp.

If I enjoyed playing a Healing-Alchy-Parry-mage I'd probably enjoy pvp more than I do now too. but that's not fun. it's ridiculous.

It's the same reason my Omen-dexer isn't an archer, it's boring with archery because it doesn't take enough effort.

 

[elster]

Ive of the firm belief if more than 50% of the population is using a type of skill, weapon, special, spell, consumable, etc.... It needs looked in to for balance.

There is about a 75% chance that the "object" being used is way more powerful than the other choices, hence balance needs to be restored.

Archery, why dont people use an Elven Composite bow? Terrible specials and damage/speed. Why do people use "insert stronger bow type name here" ?? Because it is faster/stronger and has better specials.

Do we nerf the strong bows or buff the weak ones?

This works for every skill/class/weapon...

Everything won't be balanced. I understand that, but we can make a better effort.



Now, when it comes to something EVERYONE IS USING it is too strong. (Alchemy for instance)

Actually, EP + Alchemy bonus isnt calculated right, but no one wants to believe it, when the tests clearly show more than a 30% increase when stacked with 50% EP.

So everyone gets used to using the over powered nature of it, and dont want to ADAPT or have it changed. Hence, the problems we are running in to where more people cry about it and it doesnt get changed. And we wonder why our templates have no diversity.

If I'm using alchemy/EP for 80% (actually more but we will pretend the formula isn't screwed up) extra damage on Novas, you have to use alchemy/EP for 80% extra heals on your heal pot.

Notice how this is a never ending cycle?

Change is a good thing, and I get very annoyed at testing things, showing proper data, putting down a collective thought process (In proper -EASY ON THE EYES TO READ- English), to be ignored by answers like...

Omg its been like that for years.

Its not strong. Stfu newb.

Adapt and get it yourself.

Not my fault your suit sucks.

Only 1 option is useful.

It takes 100 skill points to be worth while.



Seriously? Those are the arguments that are keeping this skill (And EP in general) untouched and unnerfed?


Now, take out the word alchemy, and insert archery, and you have almost identical arguments.

Did I prove my point yet? Just saying.

@Bleak

So saying everyone uses alchemy seems very anectodal. I decided to find some actual numbers. I pulled every character on Atlantic from myuo and imported them into my own elasticsearch server. Then I ran some data analysis on it. I filtered out all characters that had any non pvp skill above 0. I filtered out any character that hasn't logged on in 90 days. I realize that there could still be some PVM characters showing up in this analysis, and I can actually re run this and only search characters in PVP guilds. Here is the actual break down:
You can see how I did this here: GitHub - autorock/myuo_analysis: Analysis on data from myuo


The numbers you see are the total amount of characters that have that skill at 100 or more.

TOTAL CHARACTERS ANALYZED: 19,610 (all characters that had no non-pvp skill above 0 that have logged on in the last 90 days)

resisting_spells:

total: 2637
percentage: 13.45%​

tactics:

total: 2539
percentage: 12.95%​

anatomy:

total: 2293
percentage: 11.69%​

magery:

total: 2249
percentage: 11.47%​

evaluating_intelligence:

total: 2186
percentage: 11.15%​

meditation:

total: 2140
percentage: 10.91%​

focus:

total: 1840
percentage: 9.38%​

parry:

total: 1221
percentage: 6.23%​

swordmanship:

total: 1188
percentage: 6.06%​

bushido:

total: 1143
percentage: 5.83%​

necromancy:

total: 1089
percentage: 5.55%​

archery:

total: 1088
percentage: 5.55%​

hiding:

total: 871
percentage: 4.44%​

healing:

total: 842
percentage: 4.29%​

mysticism:

total: 747
percentage: 3.81%​

spirit_speak:

total: 662
percentage: 3.38%​

chivalry:

total: 598
percentage: 3.05%​

spellweaving:

total: 572
percentage: 2.92%​

inscription:

total: 508
percentage: 2.59%​

fencing:

total: 491
percentage: 2.5%​

ninjitsu:

total: 407
percentage: 2.08%​

wrestling:

total: 401
percentage: 2.04%​

throwing:

total: 387
percentage: 1.97%​

alchemy:

total: 281
percentage: 1.43%​

stealth:

total: 275
percentage: 1.4%​

mace_fighting:

total: 259
percentage: 1.32%​

animal_lore:

total: 207
percentage: 1.06%​

poisoning:

total: 206
percentage: 1.05%​

animal_taming:

total: 154
percentage: 0.79%​

tracking:

total: 70
percentage: 0.36%​

detect_hidden:

total: 39
percentage: 0.2%​

 

[elster]

Also just a few more things:

- Comparing skill points needed vs potential damage doesn't tell the whole story. LRC makes it so when you die, you never need to run to the bank to use those skills you invest points in. When you die, novas will always get looted. Sometimes coming back from a death quickly is important. There will be times where you cannot leverage the skill at all because it depends on having these items in your bag. They aren't easy to get, so people will only carry maybe around three, max. That means you have three chances through the course of a fight of using it before having to run to the bank for more. Explosion, armor ignore, every other skill we can compare it to will be cast / used a lot more than that throughout a fight. If I was able to set off a bunch of novas throughout a fight, itd be more comparable.

- It's a fun skill. Throwing conflags / using a nova at the appropriate time is fun. It may have taken a little bit of legwork to get the novas, but now you get to reap the rewards at the right moment. You put a couple in your bag, and you set out hoping to get a chance to use them before ultimately dying and getting looted. I use alchemy on one character, and I have to play against it way more than I play with it. Because I get absolutely torn up if I run through a conflag, or if I let my health get low enough, I risk dying to a nova, it makes me play a little smarter. Most people don't have that big of a problem PVPing while keeping those two small considerations in mind. They think twice before running down that narrow hall, or they keep an eye on their health long enough to not get too low, they finesse their way around it and life goes on. This means it isn't really that OP. Most people have no problems fighting against it. Considering it's fun, and it doesn't really hurt PVP, I think it does more harm to nerf it.

- VvV towns will die. I guess they already kind of are dead, but at least once in a while you get a good fight going on there. If we make novas worthless, we'll certainly see even less activity. Maybe it's better if we put the nail in the coffin here, i don't know. Something small worth considering.

 

[leet]

Both are crafting skills. Both increase damage of something. Both use 100% skill. Both are SUPPOSE to only increase "said" damage by 30%.

I cant wait to craft the new bows with my lumberjacking crafting hatchet in the new patch.

 

[CovenantX]

TOTAL CHARACTERS ANALYZED: 19,555 (all characters that had no non-pvp skill above 0 that have logged on in the last 90 days)

+ these links = the information is completely irrelevant to "PvP - Topic" and Here is why... just because his post says "No non-pvp skill above 0" means what? Skills like Parry, Tactics, any weapon skill = used in pvp too "above 0" means active characters that have 0.1 or more (None-developed characters count in all this information), also counts players that aren't pvp active. it's not accurate.

My UO not updating...
My UO not updating...

If Nova potions had a delay, a count down, did less than 15-18% of the maximum life capacity,


Hey,
resisting_spells:
total: 2636.0
percentage: 13.48

Where are all those players at? 2636 players with resisting spells? if this counted only "pvp" characters, I'm pretty sure Atlantic wouldn't have even a minute of down-time aside from shard-resets.
let alone, every other shard with "low population" having down time even remotely close to what it's like on them....

 

[elster]

+ these links = the information is completely irrelevant to "PvP - Topic" and Here is why... just because his post says "No non-pvp skill above 0" means what? Skills like Parry, Tactics, any weapon skill = used in pvp too "above 0" means active characters that have 0.1 or more (None-developed characters count in all this information), also counts players that aren't pvp active. it's not accurate.

My UO not updating...
My UO not updating...

If Nova potions had a delay, a count down, did less than 15-18% of the maximum life capacity,


Hey,
resisting_spells:
total: 2636.0
percentage: 13.48

Where are all those players at? 2636 players with resisting spells? if this counted only "pvp" characters, I'm pretty sure Atlantic wouldn't have even a minute of down-time aside from shard-resets.
let alone, every other shard with "low population" having down time even remotely close to what it's like on them....

Well I can filter this however you would like. myuo on atlantic was updated not that long ago while alchemy and the masteries and everything else were working the same way it is now.

Also here were my skill breakdowns. If any of the skills in the NON_PVP list were above 0, i excluded them (the github link i provided would show this):
PVP_SKILLS = [
'inscription',
'chivalry',
'mace_fighting',
'necromancy',
'throwing',
'wrestling',
'meditation',
'resisting_spells',
'detect_hidden',
'fencing',
'stealth',
'spirit_speak',
'alchemy',
'magery',
'swordmanship',
'animal_lore',
'parry',
'anatomy',
'evaluating_intelligence',
'focus',
'mysticism',
'hiding',
'archery',
'tracking',
'tactics',
'bushido',
'animal_taming',
'spellweaving',
'poisoning',
'ninjitsu',
'healing'
]
NON_PVP_SKILLS = [
'cartography',
'provocation',
'imbuing',
'bowcraft_and_fletching',
'mining',
'arms_lore',
'fishing',
'stealing',
'blacksmithy',
'camping',
'tailoring',
'cooking',
'lockpicking',
'carpentry',
'herding',
'veterinary',
'begging',
'musicianship',
'peacemaking',
'forensic_evaluation',
'discordance',
'snooping',
'item_identification',
'remove_trap',
'lumberjacking',
'taste_identification',
'tinkering'
]

Here are the numbers for players on in the last 7 day from the last time myuo was updated:

(also, just give me a list of guilds and i can do it by only those players in said guilds)

TOTAL CHARACTERS ANALYZED: 9264
resisting_spells:

total: 1371
percentage: 14.8%​

tactics:

total: 1309
percentage: 14.13%​

magery:

total: 1196
percentage: 12.91%​

anatomy:

total: 1185
percentage: 12.79%​

evaluating_intelligence:

total: 1162
percentage: 12.54%​

meditation:

total: 1137
percentage: 12.27%​

focus:

total: 962
percentage: 10.38%​

swordmanship:

total: 612
percentage: 6.61%​

parry:

total: 610
percentage: 6.58%​

bushido:

total: 596
percentage: 6.43%​

archery:

total: 590
percentage: 6.37%​

necromancy:

total: 546
percentage: 5.89%​

hiding:

total: 499
percentage: 5.39%​

healing:

total: 464
percentage: 5.01%​

mysticism:

total: 408
percentage: 4.4%​

chivalry:

total: 363
percentage: 3.92%​

spirit_speak:

total: 357
percentage: 3.85%​

spellweaving:

total: 342
percentage: 3.69%​

inscription:

total: 268
percentage: 2.89%​

fencing:

total: 244
percentage: 2.63%​

ninjitsu:

total: 226
percentage: 2.44%​

wrestling:

total: 205
percentage: 2.21%​

throwing:

total: 198
percentage: 2.14%​

alchemy:

total: 167
percentage: 1.8%​

stealth:

total: 160
percentage: 1.73%​

animal_lore:

total: 117
percentage: 1.26%​

mace_fighting:

total: 116
percentage: 1.25%​

poisoning:

total: 113
percentage: 1.22%​

animal_taming:

total: 91
percentage: 0.98%​

tracking:

total: 42
percentage: 0.45%​

detect_hidden:

total: 28
percentage: 0.3%​

 

[CovenantX]

Also just a few more things:

- Comparing skill points needed vs potential damage doesn't tell the whole story. LRC makes it so when you die, you never need to run to the bank to use those skills you invest points in. When you die, novas will always get looted. Sometimes coming back from a death quickly is important. There will be times where you cannot leverage the skill at all because it depends on having these items in your bag. They aren't easy to get, so people will only carry maybe around three, max. That means you have three chances through the course of a fight of using it before having to run to the bank for more. Explosion, armor ignore, every other skill we can compare it to will be cast / used a lot more than that throughout a fight. If I was able to set off a bunch of novas throughout a fight, itd be more comparable.

- It's a fun skill. Throwing conflags / using a nova at the appropriate time is fun. It may have taken a little bit of legwork to get the novas, but now you get to reap the rewards at the right moment. You put a couple in your bag, and you set out hoping to get a chance to use them before ultimately dying and getting looted. I use alchemy on one character, and I have to play against it way more than I play with it. Because I get absolutely torn up if I run through a conflag, or if I let my health get low enough, I risk dying to a nova, it makes me play a little smarter. Most people don't have that big of a problem PVPing while keeping those two small considerations in mind. They think twice before running down that narrow hall, or they keep an eye on their health long enough to not get too low, they finesse their way around it and life goes on. This means it isn't really that OP. Most people have no problems fighting against it. Considering it's fun, and it doesn't really hurt PVP, I think it does more harm to nerf it.

- VvV towns will die. I guess they already kind of are dead, but at least once in a while you get a good fight going on there. If we make novas worthless, we'll certainly see even less activity. Maybe it's better if we put the nail in the coffin here, i don't know. Something small worth considering.

If there was an argument that was apples and oranges, point #1 would be it.

- "It's a fun skill" Throwing conflags? Sure, I think that's fun too, because it actually involves thought and what/where you target matters. Conflags are also avoidable, so yes, there is most definitely a "skill" involved with them... they aren't the problem... they're being fixed, so that double conflags are not possible (big difference).

But, How is using a nova at the appropriate time fun? it literally takes, you paying attention to the HP (anything =17% or lower = win) of the person you're killing, and just staying within 5 tiles of them when you "use" the nova. no target necessary.... how do you think melee dexer feel when they need to get closer than 5 tiles and also have a chance to miss? Better yet, anyone without "Alchemy" that doesn't have the "easy button" of an instant 17% max HP guaranteed hit?

- "VvV Towns will die." last time I checked, they're only active when it's yew-gate (If people run over that far to enter the town lol) the reason to farm the town points = the horse, supernovas, and possibly the odd-replacing of a VvV artifact. (the towns are already dead, using this as a means to defend a possible adjustment to Novas is a poor atempt)

I do agree with your #1 point, I just fail to see what that has to do with how "Combat Changes". novas are the only problem with alchemy. nothing else.

better yet, how about we add a new Poison explosion potion that does the same thing as supernova, but gets it's "EP" from Poisoning skill? ....

 

[Lord Frodo]

Well I can filter this however you would like. myuo on atlantic was updated not that long ago while alchemy and the masteries and everything else were working the same way it is now.

Also here were my skill breakdowns. If any of the skills in the NON_PVP list were above 0, i excluded them (the github link i provided would show this):
PVP_SKILLS = [
'inscription',
'chivalry',
'mace_fighting',
'necromancy',
'throwing',
'wrestling',
'meditation',
'resisting_spells',
'detect_hidden',
'fencing',
'stealth',
'spirit_speak',
'alchemy',
'magery',
'swordmanship',
'animal_lore',
'parry',
'anatomy',
'evaluating_intelligence',
'focus',
'mysticism',
'hiding',
'archery',
'tracking',
'tactics',
'bushido',
'animal_taming',
'spellweaving',
'poisoning',
'ninjitsu',
'healing'
]
NON_PVP_SKILLS = [
'cartography',
'provocation',
'imbuing',
'bowcraft_and_fletching',
'mining',
'arms_lore',
'fishing',
'stealing',
'blacksmithy',
'camping',
'tailoring',
'cooking',
'lockpicking',
'carpentry',
'herding',
'veterinary',
'begging',
'musicianship',
'peacemaking',
'forensic_evaluation',
'discordance',
'snooping',
'item_identification',
'remove_trap',
'lumberjacking',
'taste_identification',
'tinkering'
]

Here are the numbers for players on in the last 7 day from the last time myuo was updated:

(also, just give me a list of guilds and i can do it by only those players in said guilds)

TOTAL: 9244.0
resisting_spells:
total: 1370.0
percentage: 14.82

tactics:
total: 1307.0
percentage: 14.14

magery:
total: 1194.0
percentage: 12.92

anatomy:
total: 1184.0
percentage: 12.81

evaluating_intelligence:
total: 1161.0
percentage: 12.56

meditation:
total: 1136.0
percentage: 12.29

focus:
total: 962.0
percentage: 10.41

swordmanship:
total: 611.0
percentage: 6.61

parry:
total: 610.0
percentage: 6.6

bushido:
total: 595.0
percentage: 6.44

archery:
total: 590.0
percentage: 6.38

necromancy:
total: 546.0
percentage: 5.91

hiding:
total: 499.0
percentage: 5.4

healing:
total: 464.0
percentage: 5.02

mysticism:
total: 408.0
percentage: 4.41

chivalry:
total: 362.0
percentage: 3.92

spirit_speak:
total: 357.0
percentage: 3.86

spellweaving:
total: 341.0
percentage: 3.69

inscription:
total: 268.0
percentage: 2.9

fencing:
total: 244.0
percentage: 2.64

ninjitsu:
total: 226.0
percentage: 2.44

wrestling:
total: 205.0
percentage: 2.22

throwing:
total: 197.0
percentage: 2.13

alchemy:
total: 166.0
percentage: 1.8

stealth:
total: 160.0
percentage: 1.73

animal_lore:
total: 117.0
percentage: 1.27

mace_fighting:
total: 116.0
percentage: 1.25

poisoning:
total: 113.0
percentage: 1.22

animal_taming:
total: 91.0
percentage: 0.98

tracking:
total: 42.0
percentage: 0.45

detect_hidden:
total: 28.0
percentage: 0.3

Where the hell are you coming up with all this data? MYUO works only if you know the char name, so are you trying to BS everybody that you know every char that plays UO on Atl. Sure glad I did not get rid of my ******** waders from the Navy. I mean we could spin some whoopers but you my friend have out done even a Sailor, congrats.

 

[elster]

Where the hell are you coming up with all this data? MYUO works only if you know the char name, so are you trying to BS everybody that you know every char that plays UO on Atl. Sure glad I did not get rid of my ******** waders from the Navy. I mean we could spin some whoopers but you my friend have out done even a Sailor, congrats.

I searched for every possible permutation of every 3 character prefix using all legal characters for character names.

For an example, if i search for "an " (notice the space), I'll get every character starting with that prefix. (an energy vortex, an apple, an egg, etc)

Come on man, give me more credit than that, I even included all the code I wrote to do this for the doubters.

 

[drcossack]

TOTAL: 9244.0
resisting_spells:
total: 1370.0
percentage: 14.82

tactics:
total: 1307.0
percentage: 14.14

magery:
total: 1194.0
percentage: 12.92

anatomy:
total: 1184.0
percentage: 12.81

evaluating_intelligence:
total: 1161.0
percentage: 12.56

meditation:
total: 1136.0
percentage: 12.29

focus:
total: 962.0
percentage: 10.41

swordmanship:
total: 611.0
percentage: 6.61

parry:
total: 610.0
percentage: 6.6

bushido:
total: 595.0
percentage: 6.44

archery:
total: 590.0
percentage: 6.38

necromancy:
total: 546.0
percentage: 5.91

hiding:
total: 499.0
percentage: 5.4

healing:
total: 464.0
percentage: 5.02

mysticism:
total: 408.0
percentage: 4.41

chivalry:
total: 362.0
percentage: 3.92

spirit_speak:
total: 357.0
percentage: 3.86

spellweaving:
total: 341.0
percentage: 3.69

inscription:
total: 268.0
percentage: 2.9

fencing:
total: 244.0
percentage: 2.64

ninjitsu:
total: 226.0
percentage: 2.44

wrestling:
total: 205.0
percentage: 2.22

throwing:
total: 197.0
percentage: 2.13

alchemy:
total: 166.0
percentage: 1.8

stealth:
total: 160.0
percentage: 1.73

animal_lore:
total: 117.0
percentage: 1.27

mace_fighting:
total: 116.0
percentage: 1.25

poisoning:
total: 113.0
percentage: 1.22

animal_taming:
total: 91.0
percentage: 0.98

tracking:
total: 42.0
percentage: 0.45

detect_hidden:
total: 28.0
percentage: 0.3

I won't dispute that those are the actual numbers, but there's still a major glaring flaw with that list. Namely, that there are not that many people pvp'ing. Not taking into account multiple accounts or multiple pvp chars, there are maybe less than 50 total? Also, I would guess that's taking into consideration just the people who are using those skills. Magery, Spellweaving, Chiv, Bushido, combat-related skills, Resist, etc, are used by more than just pvp'ers. The actual percentage of people using those skills in a pvp situation is much lower.

 

[elster]

I won't dispute that those are the actual numbers, but there's still a major glaring flaw with that list. Namely, that there are not that many people pvp'ing. Not taking into account multiple accounts or multiple pvp chars, there are maybe less than 50 total? Also, I would guess that's taking into consideration just the people who are using those skills. Magery, Spellweaving, Chiv, Bushido, combat-related skills, Resist, etc, are used by more than just pvp'ers. The actual percentage of people using those skills in a pvp situation is much lower.

Yep I realize this. It does give some insight though. The best way to get PVP only data is to only include PVP guilds and do analysis on that. If someone compiles a list of all active PVP guilds, I can run the numbers on just that sample

 

[Lord Frodo]

I searched for every possible permutation of every 3 character prefix using all legal characters for character names.

For an example, if i search for "an " (notice the space), I'll get every character starting with that prefix. (an energy vortex, an apple, an egg, etc)

Bull **** I just typed in an with a space and it tells me I need 3 chars Minimum length is 3 characters and space aint one of them, try again.

 

[elster]

Bull **** I just typed in an with a space and it tells me I need 3 chars Minimum length is 3 characters and space aint one of them, try again.

http://api.uo.com/character/search?name=an &shard=Atlantic

I didn't do it via the UI. I did it via the API that the UI uses. That search is "an "... The ui probably trims spaces on the edges of strings. I included the code.

 

[CovenantX]

Yep I realize this. It does give some insight though. The best way to get PVP only data is to only include PVP guilds and do analysis on that. If someone compiles a list of all active PVP guilds, I can run the numbers on just that sample

That list wouldn't necessarily be accurate either, although more accurate than the list you have shown so far.

I'm not sure exactly how many "pvp guilds this applies too, but... I know for me, I have most of my Pvp characters, and Pvm characters in the same guild(s).

But also, if there was a way to get the average of characters being played (not just characters that have been logged in within X amount of days) tthat would be the most accurate list to go by.

 

[elster]

That list wouldn't necessarily be accurate either, although more accurate than the list you have shown so far.

I'm not sure exactly how many "pvp guilds this applies too, but... I know for me, I have most of my Pvp characters, and Pvm characters in the same guild(s).

But also, if there was a way to get the average of characters being played (not just characters that have been logged in within X amount of days) tthat would be the most accurate list to go by.

What if I set a bot at yew gate and recorded all names that walked by over the course of a week or two? I could do that too.

 

[elster]

Bull **** I just typed in an with a space and it tells me I need 3 chars Minimum length is 3 characters and space aint one of them, try again.

Frodo, I expect an apology for calling me a bullshitter. I explained how I got the data and all the caveats associated with said data. I'm not the only programmer on this board, I wouldn't have open sourced how I did this if i was bullshitting.

 

[Great DC]

@elster . Name me a skill other then alchemy that gives a 107+% at 100 skill points? Remember that alchemy is a stand alone skill. If you can answer this I'll read your posts again.

Posting random information from a very shaky MyUO doesn't show anything. Havnt you noticed that you see the same 15-25 people every time you pvp. Why do you think that is? IT doesn't even matter what shard your on anymore, its still the same 25 people desperately looking to pvp. Why would anyone not want something fixed that will bring more pvpers to the field? I mean are people that set in "NEEDING" novas that its ok with you to fight the same small group forever. The tactics change will help and so will the parry and moving shot change. But more balancing with damage potions is needed.

 

[elster]

@elster . Name me a skill other then alchemy that gives a 107+% at 100 skill points? Remember that alchemy is a stand alone skill. If you can answer this I'll read your posts again.

Posting random information from a very shaky MyUO doesn't show anything. Havnt you noticed that you see the same 15-25 people every time you pvp. Why do you think that is? IT doesn't even matter what shard your on anymore, its still the same 25 people desperately looking to pvp. Why would anyone not want something fixed that will bring more pvpers to the field? I mean are people that set in "NEEDING" novas that its ok with you to fight the same small group forever. The tactics change will help and so will the parry and moving shot change. But more balancing with damage potions is needed.

I'll just refer you to this post of mine that mentions skill points vs damage: (also, that information is anything but random)

Also just a few more things:

- Comparing skill points needed vs potential damage doesn't tell the whole story. LRC makes it so when you die, you never need to run to the bank to use those skills you invest points in. When you die, novas will always get looted. Sometimes coming back from a death quickly is important. There will be times where you cannot leverage the skill at all because it depends on having these items in your bag. They aren't easy to get, so people will only carry maybe around three, max. That means you have three chances through the course of a fight of using it before having to run to the bank for more. Explosion, armor ignore, every other skill we can compare it to will be cast / used a lot more than that throughout a fight. If I was able to set off a bunch of novas throughout a fight, itd be more comparable.

- It's a fun skill. Throwing conflags / using a nova at the appropriate time is fun. It may have taken a little bit of legwork to get the novas, but now you get to reap the rewards at the right moment. You put a couple in your bag, and you set out hoping to get a chance to use them before ultimately dying and getting looted. I use alchemy on one character, and I have to play against it way more than I play with it. Because I get absolutely torn up if I run through a conflag, or if I let my health get low enough, I risk dying to a nova, it makes me play a little smarter. Most people don't have that big of a problem PVPing while keeping those two small considerations in mind. They think twice before running down that narrow hall, or they keep an eye on their health long enough to not get too low, they finesse their way around it and life goes on. This means it isn't really that OP. Most people have no problems fighting against it. Considering it's fun, and it doesn't really hurt PVP, I think it does more harm to nerf it.

- VvV towns will die. I guess they already kind of are dead, but at least once in a while you get a good fight going on there. If we make novas worthless, we'll certainly see even less activity. Maybe it's better if we put the nail in the coffin here, i don't know. Something small worth considering.

 

[CovenantX]

What if I set a bot at yew gate and recorded all names that walked by over the course of a week or two? I could do that too.

You could get that data by pvping or just observing pvp areas. but yes, recording that list would provide a more accurate list regarding this topic.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I baited you into showing all the super high percentages for everyone to read. Congrats for biting on my legendary fisherman on stratics. LOLOL

You mean, I walked you through step by step how to appropriately determine the mechanics behind alchemy? You're welcome!

 

[Great DC]

Except no other skill does that on its own. No weapon skill, no casting skill, they all need a weapon AND tactics, or Magery and Eval. Only difference is there is a cooldown on two of the damage potions.

I don't know where you pvp but every mage I attempt to fight in UO solo in the field all throw conflags, and when you move out of them and cast down on them they run until they can throw them down again. That's not pvp at all. Its zero fun chasing someone until they have the advantage of free damage potions. Its even less fun when your on a dexxer fighting that same parry mage. This includes all those players that call themselves "TOP" pvpers.

 

[elster]

You could get that data by pvping or just observing pvp areas. but yes, recording that list would provide a more accurate list regarding this topic.

Come on, man. I'm a programmer. I don't do anything manually. Automated or GTFO! j/k... but seriously, I do PVP, but there is no way I'm going to PVP and write down every name I see, though. Using the filters for pvp skills only (so i dont pick up tatiana dropping repair deeds) + only people I see at yew gate should give an accurate representation of what skills PVPers are using.

 

[CovenantX]

Come on, man. I'm a programmer. I don't do anything manually. Automated or GTFO! j/k... but seriously, I do PVP, but there is no way I'm going to PVP and write down every name I see, though. Using the filters for pvp skills only (so i dont pick up tatiana dropping repair deeds) + only people I see at yew gate should give an accurate representation of what skills PVPers are using.

I'm not against you doing this, if you want to set it up and record the data, by all means do it. How long do you plan to collect data for this? 1-2 weeks? I'm pretty sure it's going to tell everyone what I and some others) have already said.

There's only two reasons you wouldn't have something Instead Alchemy....

1) You don't carry pots.
2) Your template doesn't have room for Alchemy.

If you have Scribe or Poisoning:

1) You have Alchemy already and still have room for another skill.
2) you don't carry pots, so Alchemy would do almost nothing for you.

*will be waiting for this "list" so I can point at the quote above*

Action!

 

[Demonic Taste]

- "VvV Towns will die." last time I checked, they're only active when it's yew-gate (If people run over that far to enter the town lol) the reason to farm the town points = the horse, supernovas, and possibly the odd-replacing of a VvV artifact. (the towns are already dead, using this as a means to defend a possible adjustment to Novas is a poor atempt)

Honestly this is a statement out of ignorance. In the last month there have been a good number of monumental town fights (I'm talking 10 people across guilds for small fights, 20+ for the larger ones), and the vast majority of them were not at Yew. I personally haven't seen you or your guildmates at these town fights, so of course you would assume them to be dead just because you're not participating. Any time between North American primetime (~6PM-11PM EST) you'll be hard pressed to go more than full town without running into other people which almost always results in a larger fight. F8, !, GOD, HI5, etc. have a minimum of one decently large town fight a day, and much more than that on the weekends. We've gone from town to town for like 3 hours recently with a lot of these guilds and others showing up at every town.

The silver that comes as a result of fighting in towns is nice but completely negligible, it just serves as a good way to get a lot of people in a specific location at a specific time (and not staying there for too long).

 

[elster]

Ugh woke up in the middle of the night with an idea on getting a more accurate representation of skills PVPers use given the data we have. Adding murder counts to the equation. And total skill points a player has. (if they have at least one murder count, they have PVPd before, and anyone with less than 720 skill points probably should be filtered out)

Atlantic shard only.

Filtered out from analysis:
- All characters that have any non-pvp skill above 0. (Non PVP skills were mentioned above)
- All characters that haven't logged on in more than 30 days (from the last time myuo was updated).
- All characters that have less than 1 murder count (proof of at least one PVP encounter)
- All characters that have less than 720 total skill points (filter out any characters that may just be "holding skills")

Alchemy is #18 out of 31 on the list. This might hurt my argument more than what the previous results showed, but I want to be as objective as possible with the data. It still shows that not everyone is using it. Seems to be a more accurate representation.

TOTAL CHARACTERS ANALYZED: 661
resisting_spells:

total: 438
percentage: 66.26%​

evaluating_intelligence:

total: 283
percentage: 42.81%​

magery:

total: 282
percentage: 42.66%​

tactics:

total: 232
percentage: 35.1%​

anatomy:

total: 192
percentage: 29.05%​

archery:

total: 174
percentage: 26.32%​

parry:

total: 168
percentage: 25.42%​

hiding:

total: 140
percentage: 21.18%​

bushido:

total: 114
percentage: 17.25%​

swordmanship:

total: 107
percentage: 16.19%​

ninjitsu:

total: 104
percentage: 15.73%​

meditation:

total: 98
percentage: 14.83%​

healing:

total: 98
percentage: 14.83%​

necromancy:

total: 97
percentage: 14.67%​

focus:

total: 93
percentage: 14.07%​

wrestling:

total: 92
percentage: 13.92%​

spirit_speak:

total: 87
percentage: 13.16%​

alchemy:

total: 86
percentage: 13.01%​

mysticism:

total: 79
percentage: 11.95%​

fencing:

total: 74
percentage: 11.2%​

inscription:

total: 65
percentage: 9.83%​

spellweaving:

total: 48
percentage: 7.26%​

stealth:

total: 47
percentage: 7.11%​

poisoning:

total: 33
percentage: 4.99%​

throwing:

total: 30
percentage: 4.54%​

chivalry:

total: 29
percentage: 4.39%​

animal_lore:

total: 22
percentage: 3.33%​

animal_taming:

total: 19
percentage: 2.87%​

mace_fighting:

total: 16
percentage: 2.42%​

detect_hidden:

total: 6
percentage: 0.91%​

tracking:

total: 5
percentage: 0.76%​

 

[CovenantX]

Honestly this is a statement out of ignorance. In the last month there have been a good number of monumental town fights (I'm talking 10 people across guilds for small fights, 20+ for the larger ones), and all but a few of them were not at the Yew. I personally haven't seen you or your guildmates at these town fights, so of course you would assume them to be dead just because you're not participating. Any time between North American primetime (~6PM-11PM EST) you'll be hard pressed to go more than full town without running into other people which almost always results in a larger fight. F8, !, GOD, HI5, etc. have a minimum of one decently large town fight a day, and much more than that on the weekends. We've gone from town to town for like 3 hours recently with a lot of these guilds and others showing up at every town.

The silver that comes as a result of fighting in towns is nice but completely negligible, it just serves as a good way to get a lot of people in a specific location at a specific time (and not staying there for too long).

What I said was more in response to : saying that the "VvV Towns will die" if supernova potions get nerfed. My answer is basically, No, they will not die because of a supernova nerf.

Towns are less active than other places pvp occurs (champ spawns, harrowers, & yew gate).
I know towns are active every now and then. they would probably be more active if you didn't have to log out and in to see which town is active though, it's not exactly hard to miss the message when it's announced. and logging in/out is just a hassle.

 

[Demonic Taste]

What I said was more in response to : saying that the "VvV Towns will die" if supernova potions get nerfed. My answer is basically, No, they will not die because of a supernova nerf.

Towns are less active than other places pvp occurs (champ spawns, harrowers, & yew gate).
I know towns are active every now and then. they would probably be more active if you didn't have to log out and in to see which town is active though, it's not exactly hard to miss the message when it's announced. and logging in/out is just a hassle.

Towns are less active than Yew gate (obviously), but they are far more active than champ spawns and harrowers. The harrower that was up tonight on Atlantic saw a few skirmishes (maybe ~15 different players across half an hour) and no one had any interest in staying for the harrower once the PvP died down. Despise isn't even run that frequently on Atlantic, and when it is there is very rarely any large fights (I'm taking once a month, maybe), and if there aren't Despise raids going on I really don't think people are raiding T2A and the other traditional dungeon spawns often sit unpopped or at level 1/2 all day.

 

[CovenantX]

Towns are less active than Yew gate (obviously), but they are far more active than champ spawns and harrowers. The harrower that was up tonight on Atlantic saw a few skirmishes (maybe ~15 different players across half an hour) and no one had any interest in staying for the harrower once the PvP died down. Despise isn't even run that frequently on Atlantic, and when it is there is very rarely any large fights (I'm taking once a month, maybe), and if there aren't Despise raids going on I really don't think people are raiding T2A and the other traditional dungeon spawns often sit unpopped or at level 1/2 all day.

I'll take your word for it. I'm not debating the VvV fights are active or not, I just find it hard to believe the VvV Cities will be more or even less active if Supernova potions are re-balanced. that's it.

 

[virem]

Can we maybe get off supernovas for a while? The vast majority of us believe they are fine. Three to four people keep posting over and over and over hijacking the threads for the real changes.

 

[drcossack]

Can we maybe get off supernovas for a while? The vast majority of us believe they are fine. Three to four people keep posting over and over and over hijacking the threads for the real changes.

If supernovas weren't a problem, there wouldn't need to be a reduction in the damage...

Virem, the # of people complaining isn't the issue. That a) the skill's so widely used, b) it gives such a massive increase to the damage of supernovas, and c) it takes very little skill or timing to use a Supernova ARE THE PROBLEMS. There is literally nothing else in the entire game that can do what a Supernova can: You can't avoid it, it's guaranteed damage, etc. They're not even the most damaging potion in the game, but when was the last time someone died to an explosion potion? Oh wait, they very rarely do, because those take skill and timing to use.

Of course the people using them will think they're fine, because they can't play/kill people without them. Every pro-Nova argument that's been presented has been shut down, but you've ignored them. There is maybe one template where'd you HAVE to use them in a 1v1 situation - the healing/alchemy/parry mage. Even then it's not likely to do much, because of how defensive the template is.

 

[virem]

The number of people complaining is exactly the issue. You are in the minority of people who thinks supernova should be changed. The majority of people are happy the way it is.