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I would like to see Taming as good as some of the SOLO templates vs Spawn.
@Mesanna, @Kyronix, @Bleak In answer to the question about what method I would prefer it would be Imbuing sort of over Reforging... I loathe reforging seriously. And I think that the Imbuing weight system is FAR easier to use.
However that said... I think you are missing the point about pets. Remember many pets have abilities that are greater when grouped... Fire Steeds come to mind... they have pack instinct.
I don't want to raise a bunch to level 5... I just want to be able to not have them die because every other thing we fight now has been beefed up to combat the sampire and such leaving most pets like tissue paper.
Another major problem is PvP ruins everything... IMO... if you fix the pets to not die in .2 seconds to every PvM situation then the potential exists to destroy PvP ticking off a good part of the playerbase. We don't want that. We don't want to make UO Tamers are us...
Also remember that a Tamer can't swap pets in the middle of a battle... So if I go to do a champ spawn as a Tamer I'm pretty well stuck with ONE pet... While dexers and mages can take and swap and carry a vast array of slayers I have ONE. Any pet you take has to be able to deal with ALL the mobs there not just 2 or 3 of them. I also can't go to Doom and swap my pet... so whatever I take there has to do all the rooms and the boss. Same goes for the Abyss.... and so on. This has been a problem for tamers for a LONG time. And fixing it isn't easy because then you'll get PvP folk angry. Being able to swap pets on the fly would be great... except in PvP. But I would argue that no other class has their weapon fail so often... once my pet is dead I'm stuck trying to PvP against someone with 720 skills to use in battle with less than 400 skill. Archers could run out of arrows... mages can run low on mana ... but they rarely ever do. Dexers might run out of mana... but their weapon is always ready.
Also I was hoping you would add more things we could tame... Like Why can I tame frost spiders and wolf spiders but not Black Widows and Dreads???
Why can I tame a skree but not a fairy dragon???
Skree and the Reptalon just need a revamp period. They suck as pets and they NEVER should be 4 slots... they aren't worth 2.
Banes and Dread Warhorses can't be tamed anymore... not very nice for new or returning players to not be able to have them ever.
It's not all about raising their "level" it's HP/Magery/DEX etc... Mostly HP for starters... and their resists! Having a great whatever pet with 25 or 45 resist in something go against something is like insane. Especially with consecrate and all. If I can't raise it's resists it isn't worth investing time to raise it's level. Most anyone goes around in all 70%'s... if my pet can't too then it's honestly not worth working up.
However that said... I think you are missing the point about pets. Remember many pets have abilities that are greater when grouped... Fire Steeds come to mind... they have pack instinct.
I don't want to raise a bunch to level 5... I just want to be able to not have them die because every other thing we fight now has been beefed up to combat the sampire and such leaving most pets like tissue paper.
Another major problem is PvP ruins everything... IMO... if you fix the pets to not die in .2 seconds to every PvM situation then the potential exists to destroy PvP ticking off a good part of the playerbase. We don't want that. We don't want to make UO Tamers are us...
Also remember that a Tamer can't swap pets in the middle of a battle... So if I go to do a champ spawn as a Tamer I'm pretty well stuck with ONE pet... While dexers and mages can take and swap and carry a vast array of slayers I have ONE. Any pet you take has to be able to deal with ALL the mobs there not just 2 or 3 of them. I also can't go to Doom and swap my pet... so whatever I take there has to do all the rooms and the boss. Same goes for the Abyss.... and so on. This has been a problem for tamers for a LONG time. And fixing it isn't easy because then you'll get PvP folk angry. Being able to swap pets on the fly would be great... except in PvP. But I would argue that no other class has their weapon fail so often... once my pet is dead I'm stuck trying to PvP against someone with 720 skills to use in battle with less than 400 skill. Archers could run out of arrows... mages can run low on mana ... but they rarely ever do. Dexers might run out of mana... but their weapon is always ready.
Also I was hoping you would add more things we could tame... Like Why can I tame frost spiders and wolf spiders but not Black Widows and Dreads???
Why can I tame a skree but not a fairy dragon???
Skree and the Reptalon just need a revamp period. They suck as pets and they NEVER should be 4 slots... they aren't worth 2.
Banes and Dread Warhorses can't be tamed anymore... not very nice for new or returning players to not be able to have them ever.
It's not all about raising their "level" it's HP/Magery/DEX etc... Mostly HP for starters... and their resists! Having a great whatever pet with 25 or 45 resist in something go against something is like insane. Especially with consecrate and all. If I can't raise it's resists it isn't worth investing time to raise it's level. Most anyone goes around in all 70%'s... if my pet can't too then it's honestly not worth working up.
Pet Revamp: I vote for the "Imbuing" method for pet advancement.
Bane Dragons, probably not... (I'm not against bane dragon's spawning again)
but a Nightmare would likely be the same a dread (minus the "Trick" command) if a nightmare is leveled up to match the follower count of a dread... assuming they get it right.
I still prefer the idea to add some kind of item to apply to any pet so you could change the pets damage type and/or add a "slayer" bonus damage/vulnerability to the pet.
I'd imagine the item would be applied to pets the same way a dragon barding deed works.
It would look something like this:
maybe a visual effect so that you could tell without mousing over the pet like swamp dragons.
Also, you should be able to use a bladed weapon or an axe to remove the pet modification, so you could change it depending on what you plan to hunt.
It wouldn't be as fast as switching weapons or spell-books like a player could.... but it'll be the next best thing (so far), it wouldn't effect pvp almost at all either.
They are. Currently tamers are really only useful as tanks. I for one will be excited to not have to use a dragon anymore.
It would be funny if you could just make a horse a badass. Super Clydesdale.
Did you not read the part that said every "level up" they get a survivability bonus of hp/hpr/resists?
I did but if it's anything like the rest of the stuff of late I'm sure we'll all be extremely disappointed. IF it's anything like the fishing bonus's we may as well just forget it... get a bonus of 0.00005% per level? Even if it was 5 or 10% per level 5 or 10% of say 25 resist is still not worth it... Take a WW... and having something like 25% fire resist... it's already a 3 slot pet so you only get 2 advances to gain resist... my bet is it'll be so minimal that it's not worth it. Or how about like banking points? Does that feel "good" to you?
Like I said most players wouldn't even try hunting stuff without all 70's... why would I try to fight stuff that my character wouldn't fight with less resist? Even if the pet has 900 HP you still can't heal it fast enough to keep the things alive long enough to kill anything worth fighting... and having your pet die 100 times while trying to fight something isn't good either since they lose all sorts of skill and stats dying.
I'm sorry but IMO lately the DEVs have continuously proven that they want to make the game more and more tedious, time consuming, and unrewarding. How much fun do you have doing the roof 10 times spending countless hours getting all the rooms complete going up there having a 40 min to 2 hour battle.... and getting NOTHING..... time and time again... much like Despise... and so many other things... which is also a MASSIVE complaint at EM Events... I know people that have gone YEARS without ever getting a drop...
At this point if things continue on the path they are on I don't expect I'll be playing this time next year. I've been waiting on this "revamp" to revitalize my love of UO... one of the things I've always enjoyed is taming... guess that's why I have 20+ tamers... but without more stable slots... The entire revamp is a waste of time. Most tamers will NOT give up beloved pets just because they can tame something else and train it up. Most tamers are pretty attached to their old WW's and Mares and such. So even if they did add more pets you can tame.... and such most of us don't have any room to put them in the stables...
Ooooh, I can't wait for this pet revamp - it sounds amazing. I personally would like to see the devs go down the 'Imbuing' route. Being able to customize your pets in such a personal and specific way would be fantastic. It would allow us to have different pets for different situations and give the players the opportunity to discover how best to balance their pets between special moves and stat & skill amounts - definitely a stronger system than randomly reforging. Looking forward to obtaining a super powered 5 slot chicken with deadly poison and magic attacks
I suggest doing the pet revamp in small more detailed expansions. Start at the lower end of the spectrum and work your way up to see the effect of the implementation. Partially because this can put a huge bane on the pvp aspect of it. The pets need to be more "powerful" for PvM, but not for pvp. So here's my humble suggestion.
-List The Pets in a tier system and implement and judge based on that. A huge pet revamp would be just that a HUGE influx of bugs and imbalance. So I suggest start small..work on the current 1 Follower tameables and work your way up to the bigger ones to not 1 overshadow the lesser, and 2 not overpower the already powerful and make the pet revamp wasted time. Granted, a greater dragon should be more powerful than say..a bear or even a normal dragon. That's not to say that a dragon wouldn't have its place or be able to be trained up to say "Greater Dragon" strength. I don't really know what you have planned for the revamp. Wether you want to be able to add skills, specials, slayer saddles, or whatever. So I can't pick the reforging or imbuing route..because I don't know what it entails. What the reforging might do is add a randomness and Grindy aspect, and the imbuing would add a much more ok this is the best way to go and have all the same outcomes. So I can't really comment on which would be better..because there's not enough info on it. So I add my two cents and say take it slow and start small, and get feedback that way. Good luck appeasing the masses though.
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-List The Pets in a tier system and implement and judge based on that. A huge pet revamp would be just that a HUGE influx of bugs and imbalance. So I suggest start small..work on the current 1 Follower tameables and work your way up to the bigger ones to not 1 overshadow the lesser, and 2 not overpower the already powerful and make the pet revamp wasted time. Granted, a greater dragon should be more powerful than say..a bear or even a normal dragon. That's not to say that a dragon wouldn't have its place or be able to be trained up to say "Greater Dragon" strength. I don't really know what you have planned for the revamp. Wether you want to be able to add skills, specials, slayer saddles, or whatever. So I can't pick the reforging or imbuing route..because I don't know what it entails. What the reforging might do is add a randomness and Grindy aspect, and the imbuing would add a much more ok this is the best way to go and have all the same outcomes. So I can't really comment on which would be better..because there's not enough info on it. So I add my two cents and say take it slow and start small, and get feedback that way. Good luck appeasing the masses though.
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why not add craftable pet armor? with slayer bonus...ect, Also im all for smaller pets being as powerful as a GD, Tamers with GD is the whole reason i dont do the Events, my whole screen fills with GD and i can barly move or even tag anything.
I'm sure they will take this into consideration, as they clearly understand (as evidenced by statement in question) that survivability is an key part of a pets value. Even if some pets are clearly worse, it will be far better than what we have now.
You have WAY more confidence than I do that's for sure because I for one highly doubt that they will.
But why? They clearly recognize it's an issue, that's why they put in the free boost, and made sure to mention it in the revamp blurb. I think you may be a bit unnecessarily cynical here.
Plus even with imperfect resists a pet with 45% dci and 400-500hp will probably do just fine.
Again even if some pets end up a bit underpowered I don't see how this system won't be infinitely superior to the one we have right now in which basically only GDs are viable for anything worth doing.
I for one look forward to escorting my Dread Walrus about.
Because they haven't shown any such insight or understanding in the past... So thinking they are actually going to do something logically now is well... dreaming.But why? They clearly recognize it's an issue, that's why they put in the free boost, and made sure to mention it in the revamp blurb. I think you may be a bit unnecessarily cynical here.
Plus even with imperfect resists a pet with 45% dci and 400-500hp will probably do just fine.
Again even if some pets end up a bit underpowered I don't see how this system won't be infinitely superior to the one we have right now in which basically only GDs are viable for anything worth doing.
I for one look forward to escorting my Dread Walrus about.
Most pets are a waste of time... Lets take CuSidhe... SLOW... his special goes of next to never... he does NO magic damage... yet slot wise he takes up quite a lot. Raising him to a 5 slot pet you have just 1 opportunity to give him a bonus... chances are it'll still suck as a pet.
Bake... well rounded pet but you can't ride it... but if you make it a 5 slot pet unless it's going to have 900 HP again... not worth the bother and again with resists but we'll see he'll have 3 opportunities to gain which might just make it worthwhile... but then you lose the match up with a Bake and beetle combo or the Bake and dread... so again HUGE trade off. Can the Bake stand alone with just better resits and HP? I highly doubt it.
Nightmare, Unicorn and Kirin might stand a chance to be decent but my guess is they are going to be crippled so they aren't overpowered... since they are some of the few ride-able pets that might be okish at 5 slots.
Really I think you are putting an awful lot of faith in a team with a poor track record. Look at reforging...
But there is pretty clear evidence they have taken the matter into mind here. How well, we shall see.
At worst pets only get an ability slot when the level up. Leaving us with 100+ usable pets rather than just 1, and leaving 2-5 pets a bit underpowered. Best case scenario the ability adding system is a points system based on controler slots not when they got them, so even GD's would get 5 slots worth of points/space in which to add mods. We really need to see what they choose to do before we start calling them incompetent.
Bake are already very durable. With 2 survivability bumps, and only 2 ability additions they would still be a very useful pet. Again this is assuming the worst case scenario. Currently no one uses Bakes anyway, so it can only get better right?
I wouldn't be surprised if rideability takes an enhancement slot. That would be the most sensible thing to do.
What's wrong with reforging? Works fine. I don't use it much, but I would if I didn't play siege. I'm really not putting any faith in them or not... I'm just not going to assume the system will be garbage before we have any basic details about how it works.
Honestly when the dev team fails they tend to fail by 1) convoluted/oblique design, or 2) overly grindy design. I fully expect pet training to take a million years and probably have extraneous steps. Other than that I'll wait as see.
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A lot of fun stuff in the last news letter... some quick thoughts...
Very excited for changes to Doom...
1) I hope they make it much more difficult and upgrade all of the bosses in each room.
2) Make the rewards comparable to the increase in difficulty, make existing rewards be able to be used as ingredients for new craftable artifacts.
3) Aside from just the doom gauntlet, make the Doom dungeon more worth while to do in some fashion or another.
4) During the last "Treasures of Doom" event, they had a turn in item called "tincture of silver" that would give you a temporary dual undead/demon slayer ability on a weapon of choice. It would be nice to see this incorporated some how some way into game play again. Maybe sell it on an NPC (read: gold sink) or put it in the store (read: revenue).
For Pet revamp changes..
1) I think GD's should still be the overall most powerful pet, even after making whatever revamp changes.
2) Dragon turtles are great and all, but they need some minor change so they're not exactly like GD's beyond just the way they look. My suggestion would be to give them a different damage type instead of 100% physical. Mix some cold and poison elemental damage in there.
3) New colors would be great... just make them semi-relevant. I.e., I like the idea of dragons in various shades of red, orange... but if we start having purple, green, blue.. that might be a little bit much. I think it should be more along the lines of color shading rather than completely altering the base color.
4) I like the idea of 'training up' pets with different levels of abilities/mods you can add to them. I'm interested in both the 'reforge' version and the 'imbue' version of how they can do this. This is going to absolutely be a major game-altering change. I urge the developers to roll it out slowly... put ideas on TC and also give people special pets on TC to see how they can do it. There is bound to be people who end up railing really hard against any changes here (I wouldn't rule out myself even), but I think as long as they show a good faith effort to make the changes and don't completely bomb the revamp, it will be an overall net positive aspect to the game.
I'm sure these will be much debated and probably deserve entire separate threads. Good luck to the devs on this big task!
Very excited for changes to Doom...
1) I hope they make it much more difficult and upgrade all of the bosses in each room.
2) Make the rewards comparable to the increase in difficulty, make existing rewards be able to be used as ingredients for new craftable artifacts.
3) Aside from just the doom gauntlet, make the Doom dungeon more worth while to do in some fashion or another.
4) During the last "Treasures of Doom" event, they had a turn in item called "tincture of silver" that would give you a temporary dual undead/demon slayer ability on a weapon of choice. It would be nice to see this incorporated some how some way into game play again. Maybe sell it on an NPC (read: gold sink) or put it in the store (read: revenue).
For Pet revamp changes..
1) I think GD's should still be the overall most powerful pet, even after making whatever revamp changes.
2) Dragon turtles are great and all, but they need some minor change so they're not exactly like GD's beyond just the way they look. My suggestion would be to give them a different damage type instead of 100% physical. Mix some cold and poison elemental damage in there.
3) New colors would be great... just make them semi-relevant. I.e., I like the idea of dragons in various shades of red, orange... but if we start having purple, green, blue.. that might be a little bit much. I think it should be more along the lines of color shading rather than completely altering the base color.
4) I like the idea of 'training up' pets with different levels of abilities/mods you can add to them. I'm interested in both the 'reforge' version and the 'imbue' version of how they can do this. This is going to absolutely be a major game-altering change. I urge the developers to roll it out slowly... put ideas on TC and also give people special pets on TC to see how they can do it. There is bound to be people who end up railing really hard against any changes here (I wouldn't rule out myself even), but I think as long as they show a good faith effort to make the changes and don't completely bomb the revamp, it will be an overall net positive aspect to the game.
I'm sure these will be much debated and probably deserve entire separate threads. Good luck to the devs on this big task!
Good question. I think it would be leaning towards more combat style pets. However! Say my now 5 follower bear goes wild. Does the taming change? Or even the taming required to control.
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I think that the taming and control requirement should go up as the pet is trained.
Pets should also "evolve" such as...One of the horse upgrades should definitely be a warhorse, controllable by a paladin with 90+ skill (like Bushido for the Hiryu). Maybe Warhorse as of 4 slots and by 5th slot can attack while ridden?
Oh and ridable dragon!
Pets should also "evolve" such as...One of the horse upgrades should definitely be a warhorse, controllable by a paladin with 90+ skill (like Bushido for the Hiryu). Maybe Warhorse as of 4 slots and by 5th slot can attack while ridden?
Oh and ridable dragon!
Which is why I think they should go slowwwww and out thought into every pet reallyI think that the taming and control requirement should go up as the pet is trained.
Pets should also "evolve" such as...One of the horse upgrades should definitely be a warhorse, controllable by a paladin with 90+ skill (like Bushido for the Hiryu). Maybe Warhorse as of 4 slots and by 5th slot can attack while ridden?
Oh and ridable dragon!
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A horse with 'swamp dragon' type armor I think would be more appropriate than an offensive geared horse.
And make it look good... not like that ethy horse wearing bed sheets.
And make it look good... not like that ethy horse wearing bed sheets.
Go in phases...maybe each phase has a revamp of 1 slot, 2 slot, 3 slot, 4 slot and 5 slot pet...something for everyone.
I know that players will be impatient but I think that this can really be a great upgrade for UO if they take their time to roll it out...over the course of the next year.
Hunter S. Thompson "Anything worth doing, is worth doing right"
No to store...if we wanted to be playing "pay to win" games we would be playing something else.
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I want to be playing this game... period. And this game is a business that has to make money if it's going to last. So the more revenue for them, the better. Adding a few minor items to the store does not make it "pay to win".
yes, because we wouldn't want to be on the same level playing field as a Gargoyle tamer who can move at the same speed as a mounted player.
/sarcasm
ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!
next thing your gonna say is "play EC!"
*just gave myself the heebeejeebee's even thinking that*
I feel like there should be more enthusiasm for the possibility of a larger game window. The fact that this was brought up again by the devs seems promising, and I hope @Bleak is making some good progress on this. The current game play window is ludicrously small on newer monitors -- really pulling for this one.
After pub 95 notes were released I was pretty bummed - nothin in that bod/deco patch seemed remotely interesting to me. But if they can pull off a larger game play window, revitalize parts of Doom (artifacts especially), and somehow manage to not make taming overly complicated and non-intuitive with a revamp, I would be surprised and thrilled.
Looking forward to 96.
After pub 95 notes were released I was pretty bummed - nothin in that bod/deco patch seemed remotely interesting to me. But if they can pull off a larger game play window, revitalize parts of Doom (artifacts especially), and somehow manage to not make taming overly complicated and non-intuitive with a revamp, I would be surprised and thrilled.
Looking forward to 96.
Well, they aren't really updating pets individually, rather giving us a system to update them ourselves. So it would have to be all at once.
Dear developers @Mesanna , @Kyronix , in the newsletter from 7 april 2016,it was asked in a Meet and Greet "Negatives in Runic Reforging matching global loot revamp negatives".
Have been already entered 94 ,95 publish,the new letter with announced 96 publish,but abourt this meet and greet and "Negatives in Runic Reforging matching global loot revamp negatives" forgotten )
New BOD system it is very good but need changes in the system runics,reforging,imbuing,all that concerns crafting.
Have been already entered 94 ,95 publish,the new letter with announced 96 publish,but abourt this meet and greet and "Negatives in Runic Reforging matching global loot revamp negatives" forgotten )
New BOD system it is very good but need changes in the system runics,reforging,imbuing,all that concerns crafting.
Moving at mounted speed without using a follower slot is part of the racial ability of a Gargoyle. But they also have the downside of never being able to mount a pet, any pet, ever. No matter what pet a gargoyle chooses, or how fast the gargoyle can move... the pets ALWAYS move at pet speed. I will actually be disappointed if they make any 5 slot pet rideable.
IMO a 5 slot pet should not be mountable. That means Dreads, Banes, Cu's, Nightmares, etc, etc.
2 reasons:
1. I think it takes away from the racial ability of a gargoyle choice. Would be kinda like saying we will let all races train up to 20 in any skill and it wouldn't count against their skill points.
2. I think it has substantial potential to create issues in pvp. At present, a 5 slot pet can not move faster than pet speed, regardless of the speed of its owner. Depending on how the upgrades are done, the ability to mount a 5 slot power dread and ride it up next to you (5 slot pet moving at mounted player speed) could be an issue.
As far as the "Imbuing" form of pet advancement goes, I'd like the ability to "re-do" the imbued attributes on pets, making the changes not permanant
Me too, but I would prefer them to be semi-permanent, personally. Like you could give your pet some special potion that takes some effort to attain to reset it. I'd rather people have situational pets rather than mod one pet for situations on the go. That's just me.
Some time ago I suggested some "seasoning salt" that could be applied to tasty treats that would add the slayer buff along with the stat buff.
Bonus to treasure hunters because tasty treats get added value.
Bonus to cooking skill to create/apply the seasoning salts.
Bonus to tamers who can get slayer damage to their pets.
Win/Win/Win
Bonus to treasure hunters because tasty treats get added value.
Bonus to cooking skill to create/apply the seasoning salts.
Bonus to tamers who can get slayer damage to their pets.
Win/Win/Win
No, not necessarily. For numerous reasons such as not to make GD obsolete, or not to make an OP pet, Devs are very likely to do less rather than more. And the Bake will be improved but it still will be bad and nobody will use it. Ton of man-hours spent on implementing bad design that nobody cares for.
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That just made me snort my tea!
Don't really care about the pet thing, but I hope they decide to include a high luck item like Leurocian's Mempo in the doom loot upgrade.
Repurposing items through other events is okay. But I don't want to run through doom for a specific random drop only to have to jump through more hoops after it's done.
They should drop new items, and have the other existing arties as random drops through the sequence or something.
I wouldn't mind repurposing them then, but not as a main drop.
Repurposing items through other events is okay. But I don't want to run through doom for a specific random drop only to have to jump through more hoops after it's done.
They should drop new items, and have the other existing arties as random drops through the sequence or something.
I wouldn't mind repurposing them then, but not as a main drop.
Again you are assuming changes that haven't been detailed. It's entirely possible that Bake COULD be made useful and in more iterations than one as well. Just like it's quite possible that GD's won't become obsolete.
My point still holds, what's preferable: 1% of pets being obsolete, or 99% of pets being obsolete? I think the answer is clear, and that's assuming there won't be balances to make all pets (well all that can get 5 slot upgraded anyway) potentially equally useful, leaving no obviously obsolete pets.
As for design that no one cares for... I personally care. Being someone who was initially drawn to this game back in the 90's because of pets, and having been a tamer mostly since launch, I'm about as excited as I can get about this game about the pet revamp. Pets are long due for an overhaul, and we all need to stop calling it pointless before we have anything but the tiniest bit of details as to what the new system will entail.
Easy fix for pvp - cap the physical damage of a pet to 35 for non ridable mounts and 15 or so for ridable mounts. Maybe cap the spell damage of pets in pvp too. Done... That way pvmers can use all the 5 slot pets they wish and pvp won't be unbalanced If it was up to me pets would do 0 damage to players.. Pvp tamers are batty!
... *Wants a 5 slot rideable llama*! Don't you try to take that away from meeee!
If it was up to me pets would do 0 damage to players.. Pvp tamers are batty!... *Wants a 5 slot rideable llama*! Don't you try to take that away from meeee!
I did not say that's what was going to happen. I said "likely". And that ofc is just my opinion.
Tamer class is my favorite and not just in UO so I am very hopeful they do it the right way. I am just not terribly optimistic
Easy fix for pvp - cap the physical damage of a pet to 35 for non ridable mounts and 15 or so for ridable mounts. Maybe cap the spell damage of pets in pvp too. Done... That way pvmers can use all the 5 slot pets they wish and pvp won't be unbalanced
... *Wants a 5 slot rideable llama*! Don't you try to take that away from meeee!
Next time you feel the urge to make any pvp related suggestions, do me a favor; Don't.