i mean you could say the same thing about the 240 skill points for necro/spirit speak. 1 second to cast remove curse or eat an apple.
100m you cant beat my bard on your necro-archer.
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Latest Corpse Skin Update
- Thread starter Deus Moenia
- Start date
- Watchers 3
100m you cant beat my bard on your necro-archer.
Why would you be able to peace your target and run away? In PVP
And no you cant say that because if someone removed your lets say corpse skin, your not negating my 120 spirit speak heals, or the fact that i didnt necessarily need corpse skin - i can still omen or strangle or cast a revenant on someone or be in vamp form etc etc. That would be like saying eating an apple removes someones 240 points for magery/eval, taking 20 damage on a bard literally negates the buffs, and if your talking about +20 hit points that is provo buff anyway so thats even more useless in pvp unless your doing a harrower at destard provoing dragons on eachother or something
peacing your target takes them out of war mode. just like there are 100 other ways to get away from, or defeat this necro template. if you die to it your just a bad player.
Takes them out of war mode? So they have to hit tab for .1 seconds and be back into war mode. (in which u cant peace again for 10 seconds) What if there a mage?
You must be just trolling at this point right, you cant be serious
Tell you what, carry a confusion blast potion and save yourself the 240 skill points
ill bet any amount of gold. try killing my 120 parry 70 dci suit bard when your sitting there with a measly 13 hit chance after tribulation is cast on you.
But cazador really summed it best. with all the options available, people who are dying to this are just either lazy, uninventive, or just bad players.
its good to see at least some use for 120 necro even if it requires an entire other character with you to be effective.
its good to see at least some use for 120 necro even if it requires an entire other character with you to be effective.
Ill bet you 5B i would kill you eventually because again, Bard is useless in pvp, and the way you are talking you are saying you use your bard to 1vs1 dexxers, which cant be true because you wouldn't kill them ever so you would just be running around non stop with your bard buff on benefiting no one but yourself. So yeah you would eventually die in that situation because at no point in time could you kill anyone, and besides you said it was viable in a 2vs2 where as, a mage would simply negate your 240 skill points (or the way your talking 480 skill points because you apparently have every bard skill) or i could simple cast 1x poison strike on you if i was a necro dexxer. So again, bard is useless in pvp and should not even be in the same conversation no matter how much u want it to be.
Who are your pvpers?
Hell i'll drop a platinum on the winner of the fight.
That only works against inexperienced pvpers, anyone that I would consider a pvper, being unflagged for a split second will not save you.
I'm with De Leet ed on this one, there's no way in hell a bard would survive against a necro-dexer (the fight might not be fast) but there's like a 0% chance to bard would "win"
That being said, Bardsongs are amazing, but it's only feasible to use them with a character that sits inside houses or out of harms way, because it's very easy to take the songs off if not.
Hehe, the point is, you don't need two players for it. you also don't need Curse & Corpse to stack to kill people very fast. (one or the other is plenty).
Flame Strike, equivalent and spells like meteor swarm. (anything that can hit fire/poison resist) 100 damage for a "spell" is exaggerating. That could only happen if the target is ~10% or less resistance. (won't happen)
and can't unless naked w/no resist. I tested it earlier and got 61 dmg flamestrike against 45 resist - 120 eval and 27 SDI. Not even a fully charged focusing sash and 40 SDI would be able to get that high...at least, not without Omen. I'm actually curious about the amount of damage that'd do. I'd guess somewhere around 90 damage (w/no Omen)
73ish...90 is a pretty big jump. Lol. Maybe you should play that leet temp. Maybe you'll get kills
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Your math doesn't add up. There is no way in hell that hitting someone with a fully charged focusing sash/40 SDI Flamestrike is only a 12-ish point jump over a 27 SDI FS (with no focusing sash) against 45 fire resist. The SDI difference alone would be about 6 points more on the FS, so I highly doubt that a fully-charged sash would only be another 6 point increase on the damage.73ish...90 is a pretty big jump. Lol. Maybe you should play that leet temp. Maybe you'll get kills
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The fact remains that you don't want Corpse/Curse stacking changed. I would guess it's because you're abusing it. The two spells shouldn't work in tandem, whether it requires multiple players or not.
The amount of dumb in this thread is absurd! Learn to use apples and you'll be fine. I use the focused necro/archer template with elemental bows and it takes alot to get it to work properly. #1, I cant curse so youre not going to drop to 45 unless its a 2v1 with a mage on my side (youre most likely going to die anyway). #2, the setup to do alot of damage gets ruined instantly because as soon as you corpse someone, they apple. Then I have to do it all over again in which time their cooldown to use another apple is already almost done. Also, a parry mage or anyone with 4/6 chiv will be a problem for this temp. Hell, I even used a mystic mage with 45 dci and a bakalaka staff against a guildmate using this template with far superior items and the only way he could kill me was by disarming/splintering me and then using the elemental bows. IT IS NOT OVERPOWERED! THERE ARE MUCH MORE OVERPOWERED TEMPLATES.
Recasting corpse doesn't take 30 seconds, so, um, I'm not sure where you're coming from with that argument. Nor is a focused spec necro template as weak as you and Army are making it out to be. It does have weaknesses, i.e. 4/6 chiv and parry mage.
Focused Spec Necro DOESN'T NEED CURSE. Will you die faster when both are used? Yes, which is the point of this thread. They shouldn't be able to stack.
You're right. It doesn't take 30 seconds to recast. But go ahead and try the template out and watch your opponent instantly remove curse after you debuff them and then remember that you won't be swinging or doing any damage while you try to recast it (which can be disrupted). By then you're opponent will have ran offscreen and the timer to re-apple will be almost ready.
However, you're missing the point of my post. 4/6 chiv and parry mages are 2 of the most common pvp templates currently so the chances of being completely overwhelmed by a focused necro (with or without a mage cursing) are pretty small. In other words, not something to worry about. A 212 stam archer chaining AI is just as deadly if they have a mage running with them to curse anyway. Let necromancy have some usefulness again.
Jesus dude wrong! The highest damage i output when testing completely was 73. Want to bet gold? I mean I just don't understand why you talk...you have no clue what you're talking about. You just throw out crazy numbers like oh my god guiZ!! 900 damage flamestrikes but didn't even test it. Nevermindddd the fact now your saying that casting like what 15 spells first and syncing with a focused Mage/focused Necro tandem is a remotely viable situation in group play....ehh ok. Let's just add in the 40 sdi Mage is a tactic archer has 29 Necro uses omen scrolls and also is proficient at throwing conflags and hitting perfect nova's...OMG!! UO is broke.
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The logic doesn't seem to stick. The template is even stronger given the right circumstances. But easily overcame with a bit of common UO mechanic sense. I don't know if you read this whole thread of slowness but the major complaint is that with a tandem sync with a focused Necro focused Mage it's OP. Now we're basing things on group syncs. They should stick to chaining roof and selling me Artie's.
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...If you ACTUALLY tested and aren't pulling **** out of thin air, I'll concede that my #s were wrong/exaggerated and untested past the 47/61 Exp/FS combo I used yesterday. However, even if they were, that isn't the real point - it was that so much damage from a single mage spell should not be possible, even if they can (whether realistic or not) achieve the max possible damage (with no outside help other than the corpse skin.)
Again: Corpse itself isn't the problem. While things should ultimately be balanced for 1v1 fighting (where multiple templates can counter Focused Spec Necro, no matter how hard it can hit), there are also certain strategies in group fighting (i.e. 45 fire/poison resist, which you can also very easily do 1v1) that should not exist, simply due to the amount of damage that can be done in a VERY short amount of time.
Multiple templates CAN counter a focused necro. Mystic - counteracts necro. Chivalry - counteracts necro. Anyone who can apple and disrupt - counteracts necro.
How can you do it 1v1 unless youre talking about on TC1? On a regular production shard a mage cant be a focused necro and utilize the corpse debuff bonus. A focused necro cant have enough mage/eval to curse unless maybe they use curse scrolls (in which case they drop their weap because its not spell channeling and as soon as someone apples/cleanses/remove curse, you have to try and set it up all over again). Again, anyone with common pvp sensibility can disrupt the curse and corpse, therefore ruining the whole OP issue. In group pvp, yes, it may be tough to deal with but it really isnt as OP as a mage with scribe and alchy who can kill you in less than 8 seconds with curse/explo/fs/nova/lightning.
Nailed it!
With a mage, you can't. I just wanted to see what Flamestrike could do to 45 resist, and didn't have another way to do it - none of my dexers are focused Necro. Even if I had one, I would've had no way to test the damage otherwise, since I doubt I'd have run into anyone pvp'ing on TC1.
I see. I have one on Chessy (which cant curse on its own) and it is hard as hell to 1v1 someone who knows how to pvp. I speak from experience. The template itself isnt OP. A gank, regardless of the templates used against 1 of you vs 2-3-or more of them is OP. There are way more important things to change than necromancy that has been useless for 4-5 years. This is (hopefully) the start of diversifying pvp templates.
It's been proven wrong you can stack curse & corpse skin without two people 30 seconds is PLENTY of time for you to kill the debuffed player (template doesn't matter as much), The ability to keep the debuffs active of that depends on what template you're fighting. -This is not factoring "Curse" at all, as it is not necessary hence the stacking needs to be fixed.
The whole point of this thread is literally about how Corpse Skin & Curse Stacks. archery was brought into it only because that's pretty much the only weapon skill being used...
Syncing has nothing to do with it. It just so happens it's faster if two people cast a different debuff at the same time over a single target -as it should be.
You say so yourself it's not as OP as a scribe/alchy-mage killing you in 8 seconds with a list of spells and one potion in a specific order without interruption. -You're either trolling (I hope)
or you're playing the template generally wrong. because there's a difference in the time it would take for a dexer with this setup to kill a mage with the setup you say. most definitely if the mage doesn't have Parry.
5s on average for a dexer to kill a non-parry mage as a focused necro (NOT factoring Curse).
vs ~8 seconds for a mage to kill a focused necro that doesn't interrupt a damn thing... (LOL). it's easy to prove points against this "Stacking" when you make it this easy.
This isn't true...
Focused Necromancy is still able to benefit with an SDI cap of 30% (Wither & Poison Strike) in pvp like any other Focused spec.
The functions are the same both spells lowering resistances... The differences are which resistances are lowered that's all.
The debuff - Corpse skin lowers caps of Fire & Poison resists (up to -15) as a counter to magery>Curse. which is -10 all elemental resistances (focused & non-focused).
According to Bleak, it's not a bug that it stacks but is subject to being re-balanced. (as currently indicated by the thread Bleak started)
I'll say it again.
Stacking Curse & Corpse Skin from a focused necromancy Should look like This:
70 physical, 55 Fire, 60 Cold, 55 Poison, 60 Energy. (-15 fire & -15 poison)
Instead of This: (Current)
70 physical, 45 Fire, 60 Cold, 45 Poison, 60 Energy. (-25 fire & -25 Poison)
You don't need two players to stack Curse & Corpse and even if you did the target would naturally take more damage because of more people attacking them.
I don't understand though I really don't. I stated it was entirely possible for a focused Necro to be able to do this alone. With scrolls 0 Magery as a human or 20 otherwise. It just doesn't make sense to maybe gank style dropping weapons reequip etc etc there's no need to explain mechanics. I'm excellent at maximized these niche templates. I never said focused doesn't work the same, my Necro is a focused axer with 30 sdi 100lrc 45/45 2/6 and I use curse scrolls. I'm well aware of how it works, and how much to maximize the damage output for it. What I've been saying is it's very easy to negate and the extra damage is negligible. I gave up Resist and another source of healing for an extra 10-15 damage. My entire case is simple. Post your template and I'll explain the loopholes and what you've sacrificed for a bit of extra damage. Listen I'm not going to argue the fact that if you're fighting an inept player it's over powered, but then again my tinker/tailor is OP to an inept player. Being competitive and being godly are two different beasts all together. A good pvper CAN be competitive with this template, but FAR from
Godly.
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Again, it has nothing to do with being able to cast both Curse & Corpse with the same character (I pointed that out to show it's possible and how it's done -that's it.)... It's stacking the two regardless of how many people there are.... It's not rocket science to know that more people on one person doesn't even take Curse, let alone stacking of Curse with Corpse skin to kill them.
Btw, my last response to you was in reference to how focus Necro is similar to a Focus Mage, with the functions of the debuffs in question (Curse & Corpse Skin) pointing out 30SDI cap is also shared between both focused specs.
Based on your post here, you're not aware of how to maximize the damage output.
Hehe, Why do you want my template so bad?
It's godly if you use it the way I do (even more so with Archery)... but then again, that was before I knew Corpse & Curse Stacked.... Since I normally play solo, I've never had aninstance where Curse & Corpse were stacked after the "Focused" spec were added to Necromancy.
I don't play the template with Archery because it's boring due to how easy it is, same reason I don't play my disarm archer I've had since 1999-2000-ish before weapon specials were even toggle-able... I just don't enjoy playing it because of how easy it is, exactly the same thing with my parry-mage.
Anyway bud.. It's bedtime for this guy.
I'm not trolling as I have personally lived alot longer than 5 seconds against a focused necro on a mage with no parry and I'm not a leet pvper. If you tried the focused necro template (maybe you have and are just doing it wrong) you would realize that it takes longer than 5 seconds to even set up your offense. Regardless, I understand the whole point of this thread. I was just trying to defend the fact that stacking curse and corpse isn't this big, bad, scary thing. The occasions where you will run into this "OP" template are extremely limited in a 1v1 setting. Yes, you may get stomped by a group of players who have a dedicated necro to corpse targets while a mage is dedicated to cursing. That's the point of pvping as a team(to outmatch the opposing player/team). And again, if you can counter the debuffs yourself or running with your team who can cross-heal, you shouldn't have a problem. It doesn't matter if corpse and curse can stack if someone can easily remove it using several different skills/consumables.
There are two reasons it would take longer than 5 seconds to kill someone with a focus necro, both of which the player have limited or no control over.
1) The target running.
2) RNG of missing.
Curse & Corpse should not stack it absolutely needs to be changed.
By keeping Curse & Corpse stack like it does now cause groups to be better and they are already better than single players. It's even worse that a single player can do it, but beside the point.
In a group setting you should be stomped regardless of them stacking, as a matter of fact, you don't even need to be cursed OR corpsed to die in a group setting. debuffs make it easier, stacking debuffs are unnecessary.
It's not uncommon for you to run into me with this template, the other way around sure, because very few people would play it.
Have you even tested the damage from a stacked curse/Corpse compare to curse and just Corpse and seen the difference? The reasoning for your template isn't because I need ideas. I'll gladly PM with you if you'd like to go over OP templates..I have many. I don't play UO to play vanilla anymore. They all have some sort of gimpness/niche to them. I just recently took up a Parry Mage finally and I'm bored to tears it's so easy.
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Yes I tested it. I did 82 & 87 damage with two hits. (hit harm weapon) -I didn't update my LS or GL characters to the more efficient setup I have on Atlantic.
Basic attack (no special) would be ~55 (no hit-spells either) the test was with a special which added ~25 on average + an additional 10 from hit harm.
Oh alright so next test explosion/flamestrike/AI with no curse or Corpse..let me know the damage. Takes the same amount of time to cast and does more damage..well maybe not more but right on par. We can disagree about this till we're blue in the face..fact is the Corpse/curse issue is not an issue and easily remedied. If it wasn't..I'd 10000% agree it needed to be fixed...
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Hehe, you're a funny guy... explode+ FS+ AI with no curse or corpse is about the same amount of the damage a necro dexer can do in a single hit to a corpsed (not Cursed & Corpsed) target. with also a portion of the damage coming from AI having a chance to miss.
The difference is you assume the combo by the mage is going off without any interruptions. It takes less time for the dexer to do the necessary steps, but there is RNG factored when swinging your weapon as far as hitting or missing.
I'm not sure why you're bringing other things (tactics-mages) into this though...
You'd find the balance if you played both templates. your argument seems to be one-sided, you've done nothing to prove it's not.
Going from curse to Corpse + Curse. 60% to 45% Fire resist Is going from 40% damage to 55% Damage, this is a 37.5% Increase in Damage.
Pure Mage with Curse & 125 int (30% sdi) - 35 Damage Explosion, 42 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Scribe Mage With Curse & 125 int - 37 Damage explosion, 45 Damage, 35 Damage AI
After Corpse addition
48 Damage Explosion, 57 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Not Factoring if it were a scribe mage.
51 Damage Explosion, 61 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Time to Cast Corpseskin
~ 1.2 Seconds Depending on Connection.
1.2 Seconds to Increase the damage by 28 on the first example, 30 Damage increase on the second one.
Not Factoring the increase to Supernova and conflags, Also 37.5% More damage. As opposed to a just cursed target.
But this doesn't just effect mages. THIS pushes other attacks beyond armor ignore. 100 Tactics, 100 Anatomy, 100 damage increase, 100% Poison Crossbow hitting for 36-45 Damage base hits + Concussion. Not factoring evil omen or hit spell.
You Wouldn't EVEN have to do a special after the combo with the right weapon to hit as hard if not harder than an armor ignore.
Pure Mage with Curse & 125 int (30% sdi) - 35 Damage Explosion, 42 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Scribe Mage With Curse & 125 int - 37 Damage explosion, 45 Damage, 35 Damage AI
After Corpse addition
48 Damage Explosion, 57 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Not Factoring if it were a scribe mage.
51 Damage Explosion, 61 Damage Flamestrike, 35 Damage AI
Time to Cast Corpseskin
~ 1.2 Seconds Depending on Connection.
1.2 Seconds to Increase the damage by 28 on the first example, 30 Damage increase on the second one.
Not Factoring the increase to Supernova and conflags, Also 37.5% More damage. As opposed to a just cursed target.
But this doesn't just effect mages. THIS pushes other attacks beyond armor ignore. 100 Tactics, 100 Anatomy, 100 damage increase, 100% Poison Crossbow hitting for 36-45 Damage base hits + Concussion. Not factoring evil omen or hit spell.
You Wouldn't EVEN have to do a special after the combo with the right weapon to hit as hard if not harder than an armor ignore.
Ah yes, now I know exactly who he is... Yeah, he sacrifices quite a bit with his template, yet it's still effective without Curse stacking with Corpse skin.... it's a difference between 1-2 less shots if he's playing correctly...