Spawn Cap

[OREOGL]

@Kyronix - Hey man, I just did a coon in despise and it took me 30 minutes to even pop the champ on a four candle.

What gives? You guys need to bring the spawn cap up.

I managed to finish the spawn but I was raided in the extra 10 minutes it took me to kill the champ.

Good thing some pvpers are hot heads and think they have to "arena" every time they feel insecure.

 

[Mr Nice ATLC]

What is the issue here? Champs were ment to be group encounters. The fact any can be done solo is the real issue. Updating mobs to the times and all that should be the thing looked at here.

 

[OREOGL]

What is the issue here? Champs were ment to be group encounters. The fact any can be done solo is the real issue. Updating mobs to the times and all that should be the thing looked at here.

whats your point if I can still do it solo and it's slower for groups too?

Logic fail.

 

[chester rockwell]

Put the spawn rates back to normal please, devs.

 

[CovenantX]

I haven't done a champ-Spawn in quite a while, I thought they changed it back to the previous spawn-rate...

Publish 94 under bug fixes.

Increased the spawn cap for mobs in Champion Spawn areas.

spawn cap, which would be how much could spawn before it stops... so they still spawn slower maybe... meh

the last time I "timed" a semidar spawn solo it took me 18 minutes from pop-champ down. I'll have to try it again sometime soon.

2-4 candle pop the alter still takes the same amount of candles regardless, a 4 pop goes around the same amount of times as it does at 2 pop. There are just more candles on the alter when the level changes with more candles, It never made sense to me, maybe there's supposed to be a difference?

 

[OREOGL]

I haven't done a champ-Spawn in quite a while, I thought they changed it back to the previous spawn-rate...

Publish 94 under bug fixes.


spawn cap, which would be how much could spawn before it stops... so they still spawn slower maybe... meh

the last time I "timed" a semidar spawn solo it took me 18 minutes from pop-champ down. I'll have to try it again sometime soon.

2-4 candle pop the alter still takes the same amount of candles regardless, a 4 pop goes around the same amount of times as it does at 2 pop. There are just more candles on the alter when the level changes with more candles, It never made sense to me, maybe there's supposed to be a difference?

The "increased" it.

But we don't know if A) the increased it to the original rate it just slightly above the nerfed rate.
Or B) if it was changed correctly back to where it should have been.

All I know it added 10-15 minutes to finish the spawn and champ.

It doesn't matter if it's group or solo, the rate is reduced.

 

[CovenantX]

The "increased" it.

But we don't know if A) the increased it to the original rate it just slightly above the nerfed rate.
Or B) if it was changed correctly back to where it should have been.

All I know it added 10-15 minutes to finish the spawn and champ.

It doesn't matter if it's group or solo, the rate is reduced.

Yea, the increase was talking about the "cap", not to be confused with the "rate", if the cap (amount of mobs) is increased but the rate is reduced, it would just take longer to reach the cap.

I am still curious as to what exactly this rate-reduction was meant to "fix", they said it was a performance issue... no specific details about it though.

 

[OREOGL]

Yea, the increase was talking about the "cap", not to be confused with the "rate", if the cap (amount of mobs) is increased but the rate is reduced, it would just take longer to reach the cap.

I am still curious as to what exactly this rate-reduction was meant to "fix", they said it was a performance issue... no specific details about it though.

Yes I was referring to the cap,
Hence the thread title.

But if you only spawn
Say 8 where it was 10 then the rate changes which is why it takes 10+ minutes to do.

 

[CovenantX]

Right, because you still need the same amount of spawn-kills for each stage of progression.

 

[OREOGL]

Right, because you still need the same amount of spawn-kills for each stage of progression.

You got it

 

[Eärendil]

Point is: The old rate was good. Why change it? Why dont care for more important issues?

 

[Dot_Warner]

Someone on the dev team wanted more time to raid you newbs.

 

[Eärendil]

Me no newb, ma'am!

 

[OREOGL]

Someone on the dev team wanted more time to raid you newbs.

This is really the only reason I could think, since "performance issues" is a sketchy reason.

Pretty sure I've always performed just fine.

 

[Larisa]

This is really the only reason I could think, since "performance issues" is a sketchy reason.

Pretty sure I've always performed just fine.

Almost made me spit coffee on my screen! lol


Didn't they say it was to help with the ghosting issue in the EC?

I do have to agree though, we do despise A LOT and it does take longer, a very noticeable time difference, but I guess that's a good thing....just wish the old piper would give better special drops now...before I didn't care because that spawn was so ridiculously easy and fast to do, now not so fast but still easy.

 

[Grazz't1970]

Try getting a pink now too with stuff spawning slower. Another grand needless change

 

[OREOGL]

Almost made me spit coffee on my screen! lol


Didn't they say it was to help with the ghosting issue in the EC?

I do have to agree though, we do despise A LOT and it does take longer, a very noticeable time difference, but I guess that's a good thing....just wish the old piper would give better special drops now...before I didn't care because that spawn was so ridiculously easy and fast to do, now not so fast but still easy.

Nah, someone guessed that it was but not to long ago after the change they were still saying something about the ghosting issue, so clearly that wasn't the fix.

As far as being easy, that's cool but it's also the most raided. The extra time makes it more of a grind and pretty much ensures you're going to get raided.

I private messaged @Kyronix but not reply, conveniently.

 

[OREOGL]

Try getting a pink now too with stuff spawning slower. Another grand needless change

Yes I noticed this too, i would get at least a few pinks, now it's maybe 1 or 2 per spawn.

 

[Tyrath]

I had not done a spawn since the change. Did one last night....... I am not super spawner but this added a solid 15 minutes to my usual time which is not impressive to start with. Not seeing where this changed anything other than adding 10-15 minutes to finishing. If there was or a is a point to this, I am totally missing it.

 

[chester rockwell]

Cheaters continue to cheat with no repercussions......yet they "fix" a spawn rate. I swear our guvmint is in charge of this sometimes.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Pinks do seem to have slowed down,

Point is: The old rate was good. Why change it? Why dont care for more important issues?

Amen to the last sentence, as for spawn rate, it could've been turned up a little to speed things along as far as I am concerned...But make no mistake, if this was to help with the ghosting issue, it was a grand fail indeed.

 

[BeaIank]

At least Fel Corgul is still being generous with pinks.
But I am trying to make sense of this "update". The ghost problem remains and this added a good 10 minutes for my Semidar runs.
It is a bit annoying, to say the least.

 

[Uriah Heep]

It's all part of the "Hey that isn't broken, let's fix it!!!" mentality that seems to be predominant now.

 

[Akiho]

I almost exclusively do the Turtle Fel spawn now, maybe takes 20 mins longer but more rewarding than any other champ. Pinks are definitely less, maybe 1-2 a spawn but plus PS and the corpse is always littered with legendary items even with zero luck! Insane difference in loot from all other champs.

Loot across all champs needs balanced imho.

And yeah, the spawn cap needs reverted, its painful now.

 

[Fridgster]

I'm not a champ spawn pro like many of you however wouldn't it have made sense that if they dropped the spawn rate by a certain percent that they should drop the amount needed to light a candle by that same percent?

 

[OREOGL]

I'm not a champ spawn pro like many of you however wouldn't it have made sense that if they dropped the spawn rate by a certain percent that they should drop the amount needed to light a candle by that same percent?

Yeah, it does. I don't think they intended for it to add this much time but since it does I did ask if we could compensate with the level change amounts.

I've yet to receive a reply about it.

 

[chester rockwell]

If the ghosting issues weren't solved, set it back to normal. Try something else. No big deal.

 

[Akiho]

You know what's a real killer now, when you use honor to activate a spawn. If it starts with 2 candles and not 4, thats a straight 10 minutes added just making up those candles.

Seriously needs a revert. Yeah, the difference between 2 and 4 candles clearly adds time no matter what but you certainly feel the pinch now.

 

[Merus]

You know what's a real killer now, when you use honor to activate a spawn. If it starts with 2 candles and not 4, thats a straight 10 minutes added just making up those candles.

Seriously needs a revert. Yeah, the difference between 2 and 4 candles clearly adds time no matter what but you certainly feel the pinch now.

This is a long standing misconception for some. The number of candles on the pop make no difference in the number of mobs you have to kill for each champ to appear.

 

[Akiho]

This is a long standing misconception for some. The number of candles on the pop make no difference in the number of mobs you have to kill for each champ to appear.

I would argue that, 2 candles on a pop takes longer to get to 'stage 2' where the kill requirement decreases. 4 candles will generally take 1 'circuit' of the spawn to get to the next stage, 2 candles may take 2-3 circuits.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, It's simple math. You have to kill 'X' amount of mobs to get a candle to appear, for the spawn to advance you need to get 'X' amount of candles to appear.

Less candles = more to kill

 

[Merus]

I would argue that, 2 candles on a pop takes longer to get to 'stage 2' where the kill requirement decreases. 4 candles will generally take 1 'circuit' of the spawn to get to the next stage, 2 candles may take 2-3 circuits.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, It's simple math. You have to kill 'X' amount of mobs to get a candle to appear, for the spawn to advance you need to get 'X' amount of candles to appear.

Less candles = more to kill

You are greatly mistaken.

 

[Fridgster]

You are greatly mistaken.

Not questioning your knowledge however please fill us in. As far as I have known the way akiho described is the way it worked....

 

[Garen]

I solo'd Baracoon last night in just under an hour. I returned to UO recently I'm shocked this is even possible. I can't believe people want to even bring attention to this and have it eased for them even more. Before I left, champ spawns took a minimum of 10-20 players to complete.

Btw, anybody know when savage kin paint stopped working? I'm getting polymorphed with it on.

 

[OREOGL]

I solo'd Baracoon last night in just under an hour. I returned to UO recently I'm shocked this is even possible. I can't believe people want to even bring attention to this and have it eased for them even more. Before I left, champ spawns took a minimum of 10-20 players to complete.

Btw, anybody know when savage kin paint stopped working? I'm getting polymorphed with it on.

If it took you that many people just to do the spawn, you guys were doing it wrong.

I also don't know if you've noticed,
but populations are much lower than they used to be.

As it's been put before, it's been this way for years, why change it?

 

[Merus]

Not questioning your knowledge however please fill us in. As far as I have known the way akiho described is the way it worked....

A two candle alter will spawn the champ on the last red candle pop.
A three candle alter will have 1 additional pass of 4 white candles after the last red candle pops to spawn the champ.
A four candle alter will have 2 additional passes of 4 white candles after the last red candle pops to spawn the champ.

It takes exactly the same number of white candles cycles to spawn the champ, regardless of how many red candles are on the alter when you start the spawn.

Each white candle requires the same number of spawn to die in order to advance a candle.

Thus, no matter how many red candles you get at the beginning, you have to kill the same amount of spawn to get the champ.

If you track the number of red candles that actually add to the alter as you spawn, it always advances after the same number of red candles get added, not the number on the alter. (except the last rounds because on a three/four candle spawn you can't see the last to red candles because the alter is already full, but it still cycles the white candles)

 

[petemage]

If the ghosting issues weren't solved, set it back to normal. Try something else. No big deal.

From what I read people were also reporting lag in EC especially in areas where lots of mobs spawned. Of course they did not actually fix anything, as it was only a cheap shot without even investigating the real cause of the issue (neither for the spawn lag nor for the ghost thing).

EC is full of bugs for them to "fix", so everybody be happy it's only +15min to the champ spawns so far

 

[drcossack]

I solo'd Baracoon last night in just under an hour. I returned to UO recently I'm shocked this is even possible. I can't believe people want to even bring attention to this and have it eased for them even more. Before I left, champ spawns took a minimum of 10-20 players to complete.

Btw, anybody know when savage kin paint stopped working? I'm getting polymorphed with it on.

Were you on a sampire? If not, look it up, it mows through champ spawns quickly, and vamp form prevents polymorphing as well. Even on a mage it shouldn't take an hour, unless you were using a suit from 2005 or something. If that's the case I can see it taking an hour - I used to do that on Test out of boredom, since it wasn't possible to do so on LS at the time.

 

[Garen]

If it took you that many people just to do the spawn, you guys were doing it wrong.

I also don't know if you've noticed,
but populations are much lower than they used to be.

As it's been put before, it's been this way for years, why change it?

This was when Publish 16 was new. There was no organized champ spawns, they were public events where people would show up kill spawn and each other until the boss was finally dead. So now you activate the spawn yourself, and clear in in 30 minutes, or you're doing it wrong.

 

[Garen]

Were you on a sampire? If not, look it up, it mows through champ spawns quickly, and vamp form prevents polymorphing as well. Even on a mage it shouldn't take an hour, unless you were using a suit from 2005 or something. If that's the case I can see it taking an hour - I used to do that on Test out of boredom, since it wasn't possible to do so on LS at the time.

Both a Sampire and a Bushido/Paladin. With the latter I have to back off to often because the boss hits too hard. I switched to an archer now and don't even have to try.

 

[OREOGL]

This was when Publish 16 was new. There was no organized champ spawns, they were public events where people would show up kill spawn and each other until the boss was finally dead. So now you activate the spawn yourself, and clear in in 30 minutes, or you're doing it wrong.

Well of course it takes longer if you get raided...

The amount of time it takes itself has been the same. You only get raided less because of low populations.

Aside from this, didn't you say it took you just under an hour?

 

[Merlin]

The groups I've spawned with are still knocking them out in relatively short order.

I use the EC and I've seen less "ghost" spawn, although the fix didn't completely eliminate this.

I would say give it some more time before reverting back. I've seen no issues in group play and find level 4 spawn to be more manageable.

 

[OREOGL]

The groups I've spawned with are still knocking them out in relatively short order.

I use the EC and I've seen less "ghost" spawn, although the fix didn't completely eliminate this.

I would say give it some more time before reverting back. I've seen no issues in group play and find level 4 spawn to be more manageable.

I could see this if you're playing with a group of 4 or more

If they weren't spread out as much, it wouldnt be as big of a deal for solo and small groups of 2 or 3.

 

[King Greg]

A two candle alter will spawn the champ on the last red candle pop.
A three candle alter will have 1 additional pass of 4 white candles after the last red candle pops to spawn the champ.
A four candle alter will have 2 additional passes of 4 white candles after the last red candle pops to spawn the champ.

Now, time how long it takes for you to get a red candle at level 1 and at level 4.

 

[Merus]

Now, time how long it takes for you to get a red candle at level 1 and at level 4.

That makes no difference, each level of the spawn takes the same number of WHITE candles to move up. Every WHITE candle takes the same amount of spawn to get.

Same amount of spawn per white candle with the same number of white candles needed = the same number of mobs to spawn the champ.

 

[Acid Rain]

I solo'd Baracoon last night in just under an hour. I returned to UO recently I'm shocked this is even possible. I can't believe people want to even bring attention to this and have it eased for them even more. Before I left, champ spawns took a minimum of 10-20 players to complete.

Btw, anybody know when savage kin paint stopped working? I'm getting polymorphed with it on.

I've been doing champ spawns solo since they came out. I would farm Oasis server up daily from day one on my necro mage. By the 2nd week my times on average were 32-37 mins. Champ spawns NEVER took 10-20 players unless they were totally clueless (LLTS). Back in the day even Oaks could be easily done with 5 players. I just used savage paint yesterday and it works fine.

Spawns r slower now in levels 1 and 2. This makes completing spawns increase by abt 10-15 mins depending on your template.
I see NO need for this. The only tweak to Champ spawning in like 15 yrs and you gotta make it longer..... really?!?

 

[Garen]

I've been doing champ spawns solo since they came out. I would farm Oasis server up daily from day one on my necro mage. By the 2nd week my times on average were 32-37 mins. Champ spawns NEVER took 10-20 players unless they were totally clueless (LLTS). Back in the day even Oaks could be easily done with 5 players. I just used savage paint yesterday and it works fine.

Spawns r slower now in levels 1 and 2. This makes completing spawns increase by abt 10-15 mins depending on your template.
I see NO need for this. The only tweak to Champ spawning in like 15 yrs and you gotta make it longer..... really?!?

Necromancy did not exist when Champ spawns were introduced so there's a gap in your memory.

Savage Kin paint has not been working for me. Maybe it has to be made with 100 cooking?

 

[cazador]

Spawns are taking longer..I've changed nothing in template or my approach. They literally just made it take longer by altering the spawn some how. I mean it's usually just an extra 10 minutes "usually".. not going to complain I pretty much am on autopilot at every spawn minus the turtle..So I guess I can't complain..moving along!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OREOGL]

Necromancy did not exist when Champ spawns were introduced so there's a gap in your memory.

Savage Kin paint has not been working for me. Maybe it has to be made with 100 cooking?

There was about a 6 month gap between the publish and the age of shadows

People still used chain lightning and eq etc

 

[Scribbles]

Dear PvMers,

Im not sure if you guys have noticed... but our dev team isnt exactly the greatest at leaving something that isnt broke alone. They are the kings of fixing things that do not need any fixing.

good luck getting it back.

Sincerely,

The guy sitting at an idoc for 15 hours.

 

[Acid Rain]

Necromancy did not exist when Champ spawns were introduced so there's a gap in your memory.

There was about a 6 month gap between the publish and the age of shadows.

I wouldn't waste my time doing champ spawns for a silly title. IMO champ spawns weren't worth doing until powers scrolls came out.
During that window between champ spawns and AoS release, I ran a gm nox mage & still did solo spawns easily.
When AoS dropped I went to a necro mage template often running with GM nox. Spawns were, have been, & are easy w/ the right temp.

Now they just take longer...... great change !