Keys vs quests to enter boss monster area

[Ox AO]

In order to enter areas such as peerless, exodus, corgal, champ spawns, Doom gauntlet and so on friends could get the keys and hold them when other friends show up to do these boss monsters together.

With these new quest required for each person we have to leave behind friends that want to go.

For future bosses can we use the old systems please.

Thank you

 

[Dot_Warner]

Quests are fun and I want more of them, but I don't want 2+ hours of prerequisite to do a boss.

The Ararat quest was the start of this madness and nobody does it anymore, partially because the Shadowlords are a PITA and the loot is objectively terrible.

Then we get Exodus and the still-fairly-onerous key acquisition.

Shadowguard is a serious waste of time, with certain rooms needing a major balance pass (looking at you Armory & Belfry). This is ignoring the fact that most people receive NOTHING for expending all that time.

The Queen/Zippy is another round of too much...the Pits +1 quest of killing 35 things (which really doesn't add anything but TIME to the quest, + 2 other quests that are more fun.

Kotlan is better, though there is no boss. Which is kind of sad, really.

 

[Ender]

Also don't use that BS Exodus system where every person needs a set of keys. That's just frustrating as hell. Especially when the most common key drop is the only key that ISN'T required by everyone.

 

[J. E. Tamer]

OOC:
Vainly repeating: please take the timer off the Exodus keys...
then make them stack. Make power crystals stack too. And... and... and.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Timers off all keys. I want to be able to just buy them, like gold skulls for Doom.

 

[GarthGrey]

Again, Devs that are actually players would have already known these "wants" and would have coded it properly. It kind of reminds of an old D&D DM our group had, he was so effing stingy he wouldn't give anything of value out. Almost like it was coming out of his own pockettt......errr wwwwait a minute..that's IT !! The devs and their leader receive a bonus each month for content Not Provided !! OMG it all makes sense now....[/set sarcasm = maybe].

 

[Eärendil]

Plus 1 to all posts!

 

[Merlin]

Leave current keys system as is. It is working fine.

 

[Ender]

Leave current keys system as is. It is working fine.

Yeah, I see groups doing Shadowguard and Exodus all the time.

Er, wait...

 

[Ox AO]

Leave current keys system as is. It is working fine.

I agree. We should stick with the key system rather then this new quest system.

I just don't like leaving people behind.
I can almost hear their mouth drop in disappointment when we tell them they can't go.

 

[The Slug]

Quests are fun and I want more of them, but I don't want 2+ hours of prerequisite to do a boss.

The Ararat quest was the start of this madness and nobody does it anymore, partially because the Shadowlords are a PITA and the loot is objectively terrible.

Then we get Exodus and the still-fairly-onerous key acquisition.

Shadowguard is a serious waste of time, with certain rooms needing a major balance pass (looking at you Armory & Belfry). This is ignoring the fact that most people receive NOTHING for expending all that time.

The Queen/Zippy is another round of too much...the Pits +1 quest of killing 35 things (which really doesn't add anything but TIME to the quest, + 2 other quests that are more fun.

Kotlan is better, though there is no boss. Which is kind of sad, really.

I would like the Kotlan setup with a boss only if it is instanced, like Medusa. There are a couple of individuals on Baja who seem to love to flood the "dance floor" with as many automatons as possible. Being a necro mage in wraith form, that tends to make me real dead real quick (it also makes me LOL when they ask me to do all the work for them, including supplying the power cores)

 

[Spock's Beard]

I agree. We should stick with the key system rather then this new quest system.

I think they should just shut up and let us play their content. The idea that I should screw around with prerequisite crap for hours just to kill a boss that will in all likelihood drop nothing 99 out of 100 times is ridiculous.

I've given up on Medusa, for example, since I looked at how long it took to gather the eggs for one kill, multiplied that by the number of times I'd probably have to kill her to get the only thing she drops that anyone wants, and realized that literally NOTHING in this game would be worth wasting dozens and dozens of hours whirlwinding giant serpents mindlessly.

And like that Myrmidex War thing from the previous patch? I got up to the boss, got one-shotted by some gimmick, realized I was expected to try to form a group for a boss with two hours of prerequisite crap just to get in, and dropped the quest without a second thought.

They seem to think that we'll automatically feel obligated to do any content they add, no matter how inconvenient or obnoxious, the same way they used to think we'd automatically want any artifacts they added no matter how bad they made them to avoid nerfing crafters or whatever. They need to wake up.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, I see groups doing Shadowguard and Exodus all the time.

Er, wait...

UWF does both rather frequently.

Exodus is easy to key for, as is Shadowguard. Those two also drop the best loot. There is zero reason to change the way the keying system for these two encounters work.

Some of the other new content in Eodon - like Zippy for example - I could see some minor tweaks.

Peerless keys - timer should be extended, but not dropped entirely.

 

[J. E. Tamer]

OOC:

a) I disagree with Merlin on the Exodus keys. The timers should be removed from Exodus keys. Reason: everyone going has to have a set, and we can't get enough people together in a week to do that on our underpopulated shards that aren't Atlantic.
b) Zippy/Queen: the Myrmidex pit has become too annoying because of having to get looting rights on 80 opponents at each position. That's right, kills made by your allies DO NOT COUNT NOW.
c) Zippy: the Salty Sea takes too long, even with a few nets and lots of anchors.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Who gives a crap about timers on peerless keys? What purpose do they serve? Literally their only purpose is to keep everyone from going in there at once. What difference does it make how they're gotten or how long they last? Let me just buy them like Doom skulls, from someone who doesn't mind jumping through the hoops for some gold.

 

[The Slug]

OOC:

a) I disagree with Merlin on the Exodus keys. The timers should be removed from Exodus keys. Reason: everyone going has to have a set, and we can't get enough people together in a week to do that on our underpopulated shards that aren't Atlantic.
b) Zippy/Queen: the Myrmidex pit has become too annoying because of having to get looting rights on 80 opponents at each position. That's right, kills made by your allies DO NOT COUNT NOW.
c) Zippy: the Salty Sea takes too long, even with a few nets and lots of anchors.

*agrees completely* however I don't think ally kills ever counted. But then again I might be wrong on that

 

[Enziet]

The current system seems fine to me. I've never had an issue with getting keyed for a boss / area. Frankly I like having that extra little bit of stuff to do before the main event.

Now the key timer, that is another issue. I don' t like the idea of only having a small window of time with a key to access an area. Yes it's good for group content, you make a plan to go some place. But it also sucks for anyone that is stuck playing solo (which seems like a large portion of UO these days) and they just want to get a key and sell it to someone.

 

[Ox AO]

I've never had an issue with getting keyed for a boss / area

you never had to leave someone behind because they didn't get keyed up?
Or it doesn't bother you that you left them behind? It bothers me.

 

[Enziet]

you never had to leave someone behind because they didn't get keyed up?
Or it doesn't bother you that you left them behind? It bothers me.

Nope, we run a pretty tight group. If someone is not keyed, we get them keyed first. We have alot of runes books though to alot of area's. In fact most quest destinations are all marked so we can ensure that everyone that is going into the area / killing the boss can go We don't leave people behind.

 

[MissEcho]

Should just be ONE set of keys needed to access the boss, as it is with the peerless. Not everyone having to have a set. I finally did the pub 93 Zippy thing this past week with a couple of people, and realise that it will most like be the last time as getting people on at the same time who have done the keys is next to impossible. I have since done the pitt solo with two of my chars and gotten the keys again, and maybe at some point someone else will have them done when I am on, but I am not counting on it as most ppl have moved on from that to the pub 94 stuff so I have a feeling I will end up binning the keys due to lack of ability to get a group up.

I think if a char has done the 'whole' quest chain once then after that they should be able to go directly in with anyone who has a set of keys.

If I could yell in chat 'I have keys who wants to come' I have no doubt I would get some takers. The way it is now practically impossible.

As it is the whole quest chain to enter boss fights is the pitts. I don't know what bright spark decided this was the way to go, especially with most shards shedding population and getting smaller and smaller. It shouldn't take more than 2-3 hrs from the decision to 'do a boss' to the completion of the boss. That should include any prerequisites to get into that boss. The way it is now it can take 6-7 hours or more to complete the 'stuff' just to get in, by which time most people have logged out due to real life stuff. On larger shards with larger pop they can do it multiple times if it is a 2-3 hr turn around, and smaller shards would actually be able to complete stuff too. One set of keys means you are not deciding to do a boss then finding only 2 of the 5 players you want to do it with have keys, then you know you have to spend another 3-4 hours assisting them to get them by which time you have to log anyways. It is just a GRIND. I am certainly over it.

Quest chains are only good for 'one off' events. Talk about being bored to death having to do it each and every time. I means seriously : 10 water eles, 10 sea serps, 10 deep sea serps, 10 krakens over and over and over and over and over...................... seriously? Do you have any idea how damn boring that is? Not to mention that most of us can one hit kill a water ele or serp so if a bunch of you are attempting it you all have to power down and punch the damn things so that everyone can get a punch in before they die or else you might have to dregde up like 50 of em. BORING.

As I said above, It shouldn't take more than 2-3 hrs from the decision to 'do a boss' to the completion of the boss. Otherwise you cater only to the high pop shards, and LARGE guilds and destroy the game for everyone else. Which is pretty much what is currently happening on all small shards.

 

[Ox AO]

If someone is not keyed, we get them keyed first..

Lets take Shadowguard it takes me about 45 minutes to quest up and about 20 minutes to kill all four bosses. On four characters (less time killing boss if more go)

If someone comes in just at the time some of us are about (or near that time) to go into do the boss. Its better for everyone if he is left behind.
If we wait 45 minutes for one person to quest up some of the others are already gone.

All these new quest requirements are similar time figures. On the new good and evil bosses (what ever they're called) I could get the keys for them but they still need to do the push in the pit which takes me more time then doing the bosses.

This is an on-line game people come and go for real life issues. In order for everyone to go together key's gathered were much more effective way to create a smooth flow for friends to play together as a group.

What we been doing recently is if someone new shows up. We do something else we can all do together.


Question:

You don't have others in your group leaving before that last guy that came in is done with his quest?
This is strange to me. I just don't see many people willing to wait 20 to 45 minutes twiddling their thumbs.

 

[Ox AO]

The way it is now it can take 6-7 hours or more to complete the 'stuff' just to get in

dang. I wish I didn't lag so much on that shard. I would help you out.

 

[Enziet]

You don't have others in your group leaving before that last guy that came in is done with his quest?
This is strange to me. I just don't see many people willing to wait 20 to 45 minutes twiddling their thumbs.

Again nope. And it doesn't take that long when you have 10 - 20 people all helping you complete the quest with rune books to all the quest spots required to get whatever quests done asap. Your talking solo adventuring, yes I can see that taking awhile, also with PUG groups it could take awhile. We run guild groups. Nobody gets left behind

 

[MissEcho]

`

Again nope. And it doesn't take that long when you have 10 - 20 people all helping you complete the quest with rune books to all the quest spots required to get whatever quests done asap. Your talking solo adventuring, yes I can see that taking awhile, also with PUG groups it could take awhile. We run guild groups. Nobody gets left behind

``And there is the crux of the problem. On our shard at any given time you would be LUCKY to get 10 people on on the whole shard. You are lucky to get 20 turn up to an EM event. Let alone that many for general game play on a boss fight. At BEST we can probably on a good day get 2-3 people answer in chat to do something and then only if it gonna take an hour or two. When I did the zippy the other day I did it with 2 people from the biggest guild on our shard, and even then we waited 40 mins to see if anyone else wanted to come. Not only that we had done the keys over 2 days previous just to get to that point as it takes hours with 1-2 people to do the pitt. Not everyone on wants to spend hour upon hour doing boring quests to 'maybe' get a drop and then if they do get something so lame as a reward title, of which the devs seem to think we are all crying out for seeing as how that keeps cropping up as a 'reward' for hours of boring slog. A reward title is like the booby prize, sorry, no idea why they think that they should call em a reward. As it is we are drowned in titles that we cant show as most people want their guild title up which eliminates the space for much else.

As I said, if you could yell out 'I have keys' anyone want to come you would never have a problem getting people. Yelling out 'I wanna do xyz' which is gonna entail hours upon hours of boring quests that you have already done over and over you get noone. At least when collecting keys for peerless and exodus you have the added bonuse of the odd arti drop, looting of gold, a few scrolls, spellweaving etc, or imbuing ingredients if you do boxes in the exodus dungeon, and the keys last a week so you can get enough to be able to offer that your ready in chat. This last one I did with the zippy quests it was time consuming, cost a 100 grand for one of the bits so any 'gold' you did get killing exodus and bloody serpents was well eaten up with buying that and took hours to complete solo.

We all have rune books marked etc. That is not the point. The point is it is a grind fest and killing off content on small shards as you just cant get people to bother with long and convoluted quest chains, especially when the odds of a lame reward are all you get. You only ever want 1 recipe for something and reward titles totally suck. The devs obviously do NOT play this game or they would know that if you are gonna make something so damn tedious the rewards have to be great to keep people doing it. Ever since the peerless dungeons in ML, which still get done today, the newer stuff is just done one or two times and then left to rot or done so sporadically that it doesn't really count. The list of stuff in this category includes: despise, cora, pub 93 myrmidex stuff, Ararat, shadowguard, the quests for the tribes (sheesh what a pita they are), exodus, high seas bosses. And sure they get done sporadically but it is not since the peerless stuff and treasures of tokuno that this game actually had content that stood the test of time.

 

[Enziet]

Sounds to me like we may need to merge all the shards. I know old folks hate change and all but it would fix all these "finding people" issues. Keep two shards. One open pvp and one atlantic. The RP groups will find each other.

 

[Ox AO]

we may need to merge all the shards

Please leave our little shards alone. Its like a small community. What MissEcho is saying the designers design the game for Atlantic. Which is a mistake.

 

[Enziet]

Please leave our little shards alone. Its like a small community. What MissEcho is saying the designers design the game for Atlantic. Which is a mistake.

Sounds to me like we've found the issue. They can't create content for the smaller shards and expect it to go over well on Atlantic. Time to dispose of the small shards. They be costing more money then they be worth.

 

[Ender]

Except they can create content for shards of all sizes. I don't recall there being much of a problem getting people to do any ML or SA peerless.

 

[Ox AO]

They be costing more money then they be worth.

IF they did it would just save me money. I'm holding a number of accounts that I really don't need to keep the buildings up.

 

[MissEcho]

Except they can create content for shards of all sizes. I don't recall there being much of a problem getting people to do any ML or SA peerless.

There is no reason why all the 'new' bosses cannot be based on similar systems to the ML peerless bosses, there were successful unlike the past few yrs of totally borked bosses that people do for the first five minutes then forget due to all the above. OK I like new quests too, however they should be structured so you only have to do them ONCE if they are part of access to another boss, ie, like the 'gorrow' quest used to get into bedlam, once it is done you dont need to do it over and over, or the sacred quest to enter the stygian abyss. Ideally doing a quest should actually give you a decent reward so you actually want to do it more than once, but still only be required ONCE if it is to access further content. The way they have structured these things in the past few yrs is just destroying enjoyment and people give up on the content once they have done it once or maybe twice as the effort is not worth the reward. I have done a million melisandes, travesty, grizzle, etc and still do them now as they are able to b e done in an hour or two. I have not done a single shadowguard, nor despise for the past couple of yr as doing all that pet training before you get in then getting booted out on your ass if the thing dies when doing andros just isn't fun. Cora has zero reward for effort, have never done ararat as havent been able to get group wanting to do it and I cant solo it. I have done exodus a couple of times but only after I have spent hours getting 3-4 sets of keys so that I can ask in chat with 'I have the keys who wants to come' situation.

As for merging shards, that is not gonna happen, nor could they merge us to anything playable anyways. Lag would kill us and make it a waste of effort. I just agree with the OP. Simplify the damn system and stop making it an all day affair to get into the bosses. And while you are at it revamp the doom artis so that at least that area is worth bothering with. People loved doing Doom all it needs is some incentive to actually do the bloody thing. A simple revamp on rewards would open that area up to actually being played again.

I don't know why the Devs don't actually use this feedback and actually take note of what it is we want instead of inventing more and more useless systems to aggravate the majority.

 

[Finley Grant]

Just prolong Timers to 15 days

 

[Uvtha]

Sounds to me like we've found the issue. They can't create content for the smaller shards and expect it to go over well on Atlantic. Time to dispose of the small shards. They be costing more money then they be worth.

So basically turn the game off for anyone who doesn't play Atlantic. Sounds like a great business plan.

They CAN create content for smaller shards. They just need to rethink the way they design content additions so that people on lower population shards don't feel like ugly step children.

 

[Uvtha]

There is no reason why all the 'new' bosses cannot be based on similar systems to the ML peerless bosses, there were successful unlike the past few yrs of totally borked bosses that people do for the first five minutes then forget due to all the above.

IMO group play things should be fairly easy access like Peerless. Solo or small party play things should soak up more time, like quest lines, etc. I don't see why they can't do both.

I know they like to make things as grindy as possible to make it take longer to "finish" the content, but it sucks so much joy out of the process. At least mitigate it by adding more active short time investment stuff alongside the tedious grind.

 

[Enziet]

No not turn the game off. It's like talking to grandpa, he just doesn't get it. MERGE. If the shard can't pay it's bills why keep it open? Just because the 5 people that play there cry?

 

[Eärendil]

My humble 5 cents: Encounters with lengthy quests (SG, Ararat) are poo. Encounters with keys are great. Keys should be freely tradable and immortal - no timer.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Never mind Enziet. He's one of those guys who thinks "but it's an emm emm oh" magically justifies all sorts of obnoxious group play crap, even if most people don't care or haven't had more than 5 people to play with since like 2004.

 

[Uvtha]

No not turn the game off. It's like talking to grandpa, he just doesn't get it. MERGE. If the shard can't pay it's bills why keep it open? Just because the 5 people that play there cry?

lol idiot, I understand the concept of server merging, I'm said turn off because everyone on the merged from shards lose their homes and their histories, the odds are that they will just quit. The population is low enough as it is, there's no sense in pointlessly provoking masses of people into leaving.

 

[petemage]

As a more casual player I always loved Navrey Night-Eyes.

Pop in whenever you want, do a couple of rounds and go do your other things after it. People leaving and popping in all the time. Barely had to do it alone more than one run in a row. Quick break in between fights but after all quick enough respawn rate + some easy mechanics that make if different from just hunting overland mobs (rocks, webbing, chance to get tangle).

I guess someone of the old SA team had a golden moment there. For sure not from the current team

 

[Eärendil]

100 percent true. Nav is one of the best encounters ingame. And still drops good stuff. I love it. Must have done it 2000 times. Thanks Gil and Steph!

 

[petemage]

My humble 5 cents: Encounters with lengthy quests (SG, Ararat) are poo. Encounters with keys are great. Keys should be freely tradable and immortal - no timer.

Yea, I hate the timer too. But being able to buy keys from vendors will not make the usual suspects happy. They will just start another thread about peerless loot not worth the money they spent on keys bought from vendors Just like "pirate ships not worth gold spent on cannon stuff".

 

[Eärendil]

Well, my problem is that I have most of the time keys but dont get groups large enough for having fun there.

 

[Prince Erik]

The Queen/Zippy is another round of too much...the Pits +1 quest of killing 35 things (which really doesn't add anything but TIME to the quest, + 2 other quests that are more fun.

Agreed big time here. I'd have made it so the only time you have to do the pit and all quests is the first time and any time you change allegiances. After that you should go back and get a message like "Welcome back, oh famous hero! The threat is still here, but we're making progress! Can you please complete (PICK ONE RANDOM MINI QUEST)?" To prevent gaming the system, if the mini quest is canceled, start over with the pit and all mini quests again. Ditto for Shadowguard - after your first run through make it good for X amount of trips only requiring a one room refresher before having to do them all again.

Anyhow, just my opinion!

 

[Ox AO]

I asked, "you never had to leave someone behind because they didn't get keyed up?"

Nope,

Maybe I wasn't clear with my question.

"you never had to leave someone behind at Shadowguard because they didn't have the quests completed?"

The fastest I have done shadowgard quests was in about 20 minutes on two characters.
You're willing to have others twiddle their thumbs for 20 minutes or more so everyone can go?


Similar question with the Queen encounter. The push in the pits takes about 20 minutes with a sizable group. Even if they had all the keys.
Your group will help run the pits to make sure everyone goes?

 

[Spock's Beard]

Yea, I hate the timer too. But being able to buy keys from vendors will not make the usual suspects happy. They will just start another thread about peerless loot not worth the money they spent on keys bought from vendors Just like "pirate ships not worth gold spent on cannon stuff".

Creating stuff that's not worth actually doing is probably this team's biggest problem.

Like hey, how about I go out and battle the mighty Charybdis repeatedly until I've earned a full set of fabulous Epiphany Armor. Then I can go challenge the sinister Shadowlords for one of their incredible artifact weapons. And then when I put all that on, I can go get stomped to death by everything I fight becase I'm wearing armor with NPC grade resists and a slayer weapon with no leeches or whatever.

 

[Ender]

Creating stuff that's not worth actually doing is probably this team's biggest problem.

Like hey, how about I go out and battle the mighty Charybdis repeatedly until I've earned a full set of fabulous Epiphany Armor. Then I can go challenge the sinister Shadowlords for one of their incredible artifact weapons. And then when I put all that on, I can go get stomped to death by everything I fight becase I'm wearing armor with NPC grade resists and a slayer weapon with no leeches or whatever.

Yeah so many artifacts are just such **** I don't know why anyone would use them over a basic imbued piece, let alone reforged and enhanced.