Elections

[Tyrath]

While I can't influence the current election, and really don't get into politics in general. I am not happy with the way this one has gone in some races. To that end I will be supporting one candidate in particular in the next election with all of my accounts votes. Had I done so this time the numbers in that race would be quite different and I regret my stance of not voting. While my personal choice has been to not vote using all of my accounts because I feel each player no matter how many accounts should only get one vote. I have seen enough other who do not share that belief and are influencing the Governors Elections unfairly with multiple accounts. The only way I see to overcome a large guild with multiple accounts per member voting is to do the same. While I can't influence all of the Cities elections I can influence 1 and the big guild has to spread its votes out across the realm to maintain control. In the future the Candidate that is a regular Siege player and loves this shard will have the full support of my 20 votes and if that is not enough I can activate another 30 votes. You guys like rigging elections well lets get down to rigging elections in the next one.

Yes I know I could run for a Governor seat and probably have enough votes to put my self in office. I will never do that. I am quite content to rule over my island and not have to deal with the politics. LOL and everyone will have forgotten this post by the time the next elections roll around and be wondering how one candidate is getting so many votes

 

[GarthGrey]

We won't all forget it. Valar dropped out of minoc citizenship for this exact reason. When he first voted, the % was 50/50, his single vote changed it to 54/46 i think...which means I think that there were 10 votes at the time. Hell I've never seen 10 citizens , but then just days later the total had swung in the complete other direction...anyway. Thanks for posting this.

It's too bad we aren't allowed to see numbers, or that we don't get notifications in gen chat when players leave or join a city. I would absolutely love to see how many cities were changed from one to Minoc and the names themselves. Valar, in an RP aspect, Renounced his loyalty to Minoc, and did it publicly too.

 

[Tyrath]

We won't all forget it. Valar dropped out of minoc citizenship for this exact reason. When he first voted, the % was 50/50, his single vote changed it to 54/46 i think...which means I think that there were 10 votes at the time. Hell I've never seen 10 citizens , but then just days later the total had swung in the complete other direction...anyway. Thanks for posting this.

It's too bad we aren't allowed to see numbers, or that we don't get notifications in gen chat when players leave or join a city. I would absolutely love to see how many cities were changed from one to Minoc and the names themselves. Valar, in an RP aspect, Renounced his loyalty to Minoc, and did it publicly too.

Like the Candidate I spoke with last night said "I don't mind losing to someone who actually plays Siege." That sums it up pretty well for me. Now I have to read up of becoming a Citizen of a City so I can vote next time. Feel dirty planning this, reminds me of how many dead people vote in Chicago.

 

[GarthGrey]

Like the Candidate I spoke with last night said "I don't mind losing to someone who actually plays Siege." That sums it up pretty well for me. Now I have to read up of becoming a Citizen of a City so I can vote next time. Feel dirty planning this, reminds me of how many dead people vote in Chicago.

Becoming a citizen is easy, just abuse the donations like these others did. No one will like my idea, but on a small tightly knitted shard like ours, global accouncements of things like Becoming and Leaving citizenship would be a nice addition. Gov'r so and so has changed the trade deal for "insert city here" to "this"...Johnny Come Lately has renounced his citizenship to "insert city here".

 

[Tyrath]

I like that idea of global announcements or just have the town criers wail it out

 

[GarthGrey]

Yep, we should never actually know how a player voted, but we should absolutely know if they left one city to join another one, and then voted. We should also know if they cast(ed?) a vote in one city, only to leave it after an election. Which we know will most definitely happen.

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe I too are going to leave the City I casted 3 votes in, err, 4 votes

 

[Lyssa_HOoO]

My only regret about how this election went (this is OoC) is that we must have had 100 votes cast (guessing really) and how many cast their vote for the benefit of the town and how many just to either support a guild or against a guild. What happened to it being about who would do a good job, who would bring a new view, opportunity for more and different play scenarios? How many of the voters will actually remain in Minoc? I had one account, 1 vote and I will remain in Minoc even though the trade deal is not what I want, I was not asked, as a citizen, if that is the trade deal that would be of help to me, I will stay because I chose Minoc as my town. I challenge Governor Vixen to keep all the characters who he/she used as votes to support the Vixen candidacy in Minoc as well. Manipulation of elections is nothing new but just because it has happened and it can be done we have to ask if it is the right thing for the shard or is it self-serving.

(IC- As I said, win or lose, this is a great RP rivalry opportunity!)

Lyssa shrugged as she saw the newly elected Governor Vixen impose the trade deal without so much as a moments input from the citizens of Minoc. It was expected, there seemed to be a lack of understanding or caring that the citizens would need and want to have input into such an important decision. For Lyssa it would have no impact but for others, to be so overlooked for their input and opinion, that just didn't seem right. The many who had come to influence the election would soon move on to other opportunities and leave Minoc and those loyal citizens who remained to fend for themselves. They would not live with the consequences of their actions.

 

[Silent Singer]

When I voted it was 63 to 30-something in Lyssa's favor. And a lot of folks had voted, real humans who I had spoken with. So for that race to change so dramatically means A LOT of votes for Vixen had to materialize out of nowhere. The only way that could have realistically happened given the numbers were either all GIL alts were signed up or they called in members who are guilded but rarely play on the shard.

I have removed myself from Minoc citizenship. Hell, I've essentially removed myself from Siege. In the month before I voted, I was up to about 3 hours per day on Siege. Since the election *swung*, I've played less than three hours total.

 

[Kat]

GIL has done more to ruin this shard that probably any other guild in the time I have played here and that is saying A LOT! We have had some real ****bag guilds on this shard, but they really take the cake.

 

[Tjalle]

GIL has done more to ruin this shard that probably any other guild in the time I have played here and that is saying A LOT! We have had some real ****bag guilds on this shard, but they really take the cake.

Feel free to elaborate on this one, Kat.

 

[kelmo]

I disagree, Kat. Gil has not ruined a thing. Gil proved a point. This shard can be tamed.

 

[kelmo]

It is a game...

 

[Kat]

I disagree, Kat. Gil has not ruined a thing. Gil proved a point. This shard can be tamed.

Well, I disagree with you! There IS nothing to tame here. This shard is no different from prodo at this point. What GIL is doing is attempting to ruin everyones fun and their antics have driven many players away. Keep it up and there will be no one to play with, but that is likely what motivates them in the first place, so carry on.

 

[Tjalle]

When I voted it was 63 to 30-something in Lyssa's favor.

Lyssa landed at 37 votes when the election was over so your math was wrong I´m afraid.

 

[Tjalle]

What GIL is doing is attempting to ruin everyones fun

Again, please feel free to elaborate.

 

[kelmo]

I do appreciate your passion Kat. Some of us play this shard for real.

 

[Kat]

My play is as real as yours.

 

[kelmo]

 

[Silent Singer]

Lyssa landed at 37 votes when the election was over so your math was wrong I´m afraid.

Happily. When you vote, it shows the PERCENTAGE. So a change of 3 in the number before and after I voted represented the PERCENTAGE change, not Raw Vote.

 

[Silent Singer]

So quick calculations suggest at the time I voted, 21 votes had already gone to Lyssa. And she was crushing it. Which supports my initial statement.

 

[Tyrath]

Manipulation of elections is nothing new but just because it has happened and it can be done we have to ask if it is the right thing for the shard or is it self-serving.

It has happened a lot and I have refrained from influencing the elections not wanting to contribute to the problem. Is it self serving? Not at all I gain nothing from it. It serves me in no way beyond doing what I can to insure there is a counter weight to what has been going down. I would encourage every independent Siege player not beholden to anyone, running multiple accounts to do the same.

 

[TheDrAJ]

When I voted it was 63 to 30-something in Lyssa's favor. And a lot of folks had voted, real humans who I had spoken with. So for that race to change so dramatically means A LOT of votes for Vixen had to materialize out of nowhere. The only way that could have realistically happened given the numbers were either all GIL alts were signed up or they called in members who are guilded but rarely play on the shard.

I have removed myself from Minoc citizenship. Hell, I've essentially removed myself from Siege. In the month before I voted, I was up to about 3 hours per day on Siege. Since the election *swung*, I've played less than three hours total.

If you voted early than 63/36/0 probably was 5 to 3 to 0 or maybe 10 to 6 to 0
That means it was probably 2 or 4 votes different.
Do the math.
The point i am making (and i couldn't have cared less who won there) is early voting when given percentages are very misleading. I wish they would give us the vote in actual numbers.

As for Alts voting - dont you think i am entitled to vote for my 3 characters where i want since i am paying for 3 accounts. (I voted in New Magencia, where I live with one of my toons, for Morgan for the promise of the +5 SSI )

The elections are just role playing as far as I am concerned anyway so it's hard for me to get exited who wins.
I also suggest that people look at MyUO – Ultima Online
to get a feel how large the guilds really are and who have played recently.

I also believe if Tyrath has x accounts he is entitled to x votes since he bought the right by having a lot of accounts.

 

[Tyrath]

Really what I am doing here is RP I will be the first to say that because I have the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do. It was a tight election in Port Tyr though..... The Perverts came close to electing Mongbat as the Island Queen but the ZOOGS pulled it off as the final 5 Tyraths to vote brought the election home to Tyrath! I hear Old Uncle Perv is going to run against Tyrath next time! No worries though I can pretty much guarantee I will win the Port Tyr Election every cycle and Represent all ZOOGs and PERVs unequally

 

[FrejaSP]

If you voted early than 63/36/0 probably was 5 to 3 to 0 or maybe 10 to 6 to 0
That means it was probably 2 or 4 votes different.

I thought so, but no. when it was:
Vixen 60
Lyssa 39

This was the last day before the voting ended and even when I was cheating the voting here, I did not feel a shame as I'm sure Vixen did that too.
I thought it was just a few votes diff. I contacted an old Siege player I would love to see bring his group back here.
Together they did bring 7 votes and a death to Fean for being orange in Minoc.
I also found 2 of my inactive accounts to try to help, in all that was 9 votes

We got it to
Vixen 52
Lyssa 47

That's less than changes 1% a vote.

I don't know where Drakelord got his votes, if it was GIL chars or he found them from other shards

I would had needed at least 3-4 votes more to just get them even

 

[Lyssa_HOoO]

...and even with all the debate wasn't this more fun than the last election where no one had to hardly consider where a vote would be needed? Lyssa's only purpose on Siege is to provide an alternative to the day to day grind. Cause people to look over their shoulder when hunting, have to strategize and plan for elections. Dig out the votes from all the corners, lure in a few players from other shards to help with votes ... heck, who knows, if they happen to be on the shard when VvV is happening maybe they will take a few moments and see what Siege has to offer.

Lyssa will stay in Minoc. She will continue to fight for the free thinking people's right to express their opinions, continue to encourage Minocians to challenge the misguided "virtuous" ... as soon as my internet connection decides to behave

 

[Eärendil]

Did I tell you, that I have elections evely molning aftel waking up?

 

[Bruin]

Although I've only been playing a very little over the past few weeks and just been reading the forums, I totally don't get the hate towards GIL. Seriously, didn't a GIL member withdraw from an election in Yew so a TDO member could run unopposed? Then there was an election between a GIL member and TDO member in Minoc, and the final vote was something like 60-40, and GIL is at fault for stacking the deck? I went to the my-uo guild page, and checked, there are 80 GIL members that have logged on in the last 7 days, and 22 TDO members in the last 7 days....

So a GIL, a guild with almost 4x the members withdraws in a governors race for TDO member.
And a GIL member and TDO member run against each other and GIL has 4x the number of members, how do you expect the vote to turnout? And so it turns out that way and all of a sudden it's evil?

Seriously, it's a game. Have fun, there are far more important things in life to worry about. Health, family, friends, career, etc. As I've recently returned, I've been digging through some old crap and trashing stuff and of course what is one thing that I come across, some repair deeds crafted by Ginsu which I can't toss out. Many will remember that name. I admit I did not know him very well, but I do know the effect and friendship he had with people on this shard. For those that don't know, he died of a heart attack at a young age. With all the things people pancake about, I can't believe one of them is "person X lost an election to person Z" when person Z is in a guild 4x bigger.

If we all just hung out, had an ale in a tavern, hunted together, raid or got raided together, and just played and had fun instead of pancakes about politics this shard would be in far better shape.

(And I can't believe I had to re-register on this website after posting for 10-15 years! Who can I pancake to about that!)

 

[FrejaSP]

Although I've only been playing a very little over the past few weeks and just been reading the forums, I totally don't get the hate towards GIL. Seriously, didn't a GIL member withdraw from an election in Yew so a TDO member could run unopposed? Then there was an election between a GIL member and TDO member in Minoc, and the final vote was something like 60-40, and GIL is at fault for stacking the deck? I went to the my-uo guild page, and checked, there are 80 GIL members that have logged on in the last 7 days, and 22 TDO members in the last 7 days....

TDO do not have any hate vs GIL. The thing with Minoc have to do with a very weird case, where Minoc was without Governor and the team of governors voted for Lyssa to become the governor of Minoc. I don't know what did happen, but the EM never finish the job and made Lyssa governor of Minoc. Then without any meeting Vixen was made a governor of Minoc. I still believe that was wrong.

Yes GIL supported TDO in Yew and Britain. Could be tactics, to split TDO's votes and to keep Bo out of Britain. It was not only TDO voting for Minoc, there was other Vice guilds who supported Lyssa.
GIL's votes was splitted too between Minoc, New Mag, Skara and Britain.

So a GIL, a guild with almost 4x the members withdraws in a governors race for TDO member.
And a GIL member and TDO member run against each other and GIL has 4x the number of members, how do you expect the vote to turnout? And so it turns out that way and all of a sudden it's evil?

Again this is not about TDO or GIL.

Seriously, it's a game. Have fun, there are far more important things in life to worry about

That's what it is all about, and we did a lot RP around Minoc but I guess you missed that
We fight friendly fights with GIL each weekend and we have public hunts where the whole shard work together including GIL, so I don't know where that idea about hate comes from.
A little spice do not hurt.

Start playing again Bruin and you will see, Siege is more peaceful than ever, to peaceful many will say.

 

[Eärendil]

TDO do not have any hate vs GIL. The thing with Minoc have to do with a very weird case, where Minoc was without Governor and the team of governors voted for Lyssa to become the governor of Minoc. I don't know what did happen, but the EM never finish the job and made Lyssa governor of Minoc. Then without any meeting Vixen was made a governor of Minoc. I still believe that was wrong.

Yes GIL supported TDO in Yew and Britain. Could be tactics, to split TDO's votes and to keep Bo out of Britain. It was not only TDO voting for Minoc, there was other Vice guilds who supported Lyssa.
GIL's votes was splitted too between Minoc, New Mag, Skara and Britain.



Again this is not about TDO or GIL.


That's what it is all about, and we did a lot RP around Minoc but I guess you missed that
We fight friendly fights with GIL each weekend and we have public hunts where the whole shard work together including GIL, so I don't know where that idea about hate comes from.
A little spice do not hurt.

Start playing again Bruin and you will see, Siege is more peaceful than ever, to peaceful many will say.

No it was not tactics. It was personal issue between Hoffs and me and GIL did not plan to give up this town. I know better, I talked to Hoffs and it was me who asked him and not he who asked me. Really, no conspiration theories, ok?

Think they just like what I am doing. Your thoughts do a bit de-valuate my governorship...

 

[Eärendil]

Lemme ask a question to you all: If you think GIL is too large and too powerful, why don't you all get your own troops/alliances and organize your own Auctions, Top-Level-Hunts, Champ-Tours, Idoc-Research? I mean, you all have the choice: Complain, blame others, or get your butt up and try to perform better than them? My philosophy is: If you want things different/better, change them yourself. Everybody can decide how he wants to play this game.

 

[FrejaSP]

Ok, and I'm proud of having two TDO Governors.

Still I only have an issue with Drakelord not with GIL. I'm glad to see several guilds present between the governors.
The RP around Minoc was more about the town not being Virtue as the thieves had controlled the town at most of the history and we did not want a GIL governor. I have no issue with GIL running Skara Brae, their hometown and New Magincia where they also are heavy pressent.

Sure I often blame GIL for trying to run the shard and tell all others who is in and who is out. GIL may have other goals for the shard than me, I really want to see more anti virtue guilds on Siege as I love the spice they add. GIL may be happy with all holding in hand and only fighting friendly no loot fights. However disagree with someone is not = hating them.

 

[FrejaSP]

Lemme ask a question to you all: If you think GIL is too large and too powerful, why don't you all get your own troops/alliances and organize your own Auctions, Top-Level-Hunts, Champ-Tours, Idoc-Research? I mean, you all have the choice: Complain, blame others, or get your butt up and try to perform better than them? My philosophy is: If you want things different/better, change them yourself. Everybody can decide how he wants to play thus game.

Anti Virtue guilds are harder to organize as they love freedom to play how they want but we are working on it and you are a part of the plan when it comes to PvM hunts.
To do it, all need to stop jump when GIL says jump. That's what are happen now, it's time to get the anti Virtue alliances organized. I do not believe one large alliance is possible but maybe 3 that is working together helping young and returning players making it here.

One large anti Virtue alliance would never work, as only GIL would be target and they are hard to find and they should not be only target. With 3 Anti Virtue alliances, there would be one virtue and 2 anti virtue alliances to fight, that would be much better. A second Virtue alliance would be nice too.

 

[Eärendil]

I wasn't asking you, as you are doing a lot of things... I asked the community: You want action? Heck, just do it!!! You want to control the shards yourselves: Go and get it. I hate complainers. Sorry. I really hate them. If people want to decide things, they have to stick together, make a plan and empower themselves. Everything else is cheap excuses and lazyness. Like the PK that runs around searching for a target he can pee on and complaining when nobody wants to satisfy his/her sick desires. Go and make a plan. Get some other PKs and make a bad-boy guild. Whatever. Bur stop whining.

 

[Eärendil]

... You want to win towns against GIL? All vice leaders meet and make a plan... Bring in candidates and attack... It could be so easy of you just play the game and organize yourself. I like you all, virtue and vice. BuT I can't stand people who actually don't even try to change things and complain all the time. Silents campaign was a fine example for how somebody gets his butt up and plays the game. Didn't work. Try harder next time

 

[FrejaSP]

You want to win towns against GIL

Hmmm, we want fun, winning is not always the goal, If we just wanted to win, I doubt we would had tryed to make the fight more even, where some Vice was helping GIL.
Maybe stop trying to speak a bout PvP stuff and focus on PvM hunts.

 

[Eärendil]

Maybe stop trying to speak a bout PvP stuff and focus on PvM hunts.

Ouch. As I said, my post wasnt about you and not about PvP. It was about working together.

 

[FrejaSP]

Still all this are very much about PvP and who are "allowed" on the shard. This issue had been a problem for years. It's really about why we can't keep an active PvP community and you can't push me away and say is is not about me, because I'm a part of it too.
I understand your frustration but you are trapped in the middle. Being neutral is not easy, sometimes you have to choose side or stand on the sideline and watch.

 

[Eärendil]

I am out of this. My words get twisted.

 

[Eärendil]

My last post in this thread: I wasnt part of the issue and I decided to stay out of it. There was one post, that pulled me in and made me part of it.

I am not a tiny little bit frustrated, the frustration is on the other side. I am arguing against the frustration of some who blame others. I want them to stand up and fight their frustration and re-claim their shard, if they feel that they are outcasts. Again, you got me wrong. I am VERY happy with the way I can realize my ideas on Siege and with the support I get and I like being neutral. Everything gets twisted here. Sorry!

Freja, you wrote: "Yes GIL supported TDO in Yew and Britain. Could be tactics, to split TDO's votes"

I explained that this wasnt the case in my situation because I talked to Hoffs in this matter and nobody else. So I got part of the thread. Afterwards I pointed out that everybody has the chance to make this game the way you want it to be. Like Kennedy said: Don´t ask what the shard can do for you, but ask what you can do for your shard. I added, that I did not address you personally, Freja - rather passive players who attack a well-organized guild instead of organizing themselves. This has nothing to do with Siege or PVP - this is just a matter of putting effort in things. And I wrote that I did not mean you - as I appreciate the work you do for me and all of us. You were one reason why I came to Siege.

Afterwards I got slapped by you two times with more or less paternalizing threads, misinterpreting what I essentially said. I read my posts over and over again and cannot see, how I addressed you. This is no question of virtue, vice, neutral, PvM, PvP. It´s just a question of how attractive your playstyle is for others to join in and of how much effort you want to invest in things like auctions, governor elections and so on.

So, in a nutshell: I am a fool, I should stop talking because I have no knowledge of things and others know better. Ok, I got it. But I cannot remain quiet if there is a conspiration theory that is simply false: I asked Hoffs how GIL will act in the elections and he said they are well set up. And I said I was too young and inexperienced to be candidate for Siege. He said that this is not true and that all sides liked what I did for the shard. Then we had a pause in coversation and I contacted him later some hours and said that I appreciated his words and that I would be interested in becoming Governor some day - it was just a bit smalltalk. And AFTER THAT, he came back to me and told be that Reuggan wouldnt have enough time to do the job. We both didnt plan it and it were my questions, not his tactics.

This discussion pulled me into this thread and I am really sad and disappointed now as I am really not interested in becoming party in this drama. And I really dislike being paternalized this way publicly and I have to re-think my positions. Until then, you will find me quiet.

Thank you.

 

[FrejaSP]

Doc you know I love what you do for me, TDO and the shard. Maybe I misunderstood your post, I don't know. Like you, I do feel I'm a part of all this. I'm sorry, did not mean to slap you

 

[Tjalle]

Happily. When you vote, it shows the PERCENTAGE. So a change of 3 in the number before and after I voted represented the PERCENTAGE change, not Raw Vote.

For some reason I read your post as "63 votes" hence my reply.
I stand corrected.

 

[Silent Singer]

Well this got away over night. Someone said do the math way up the thread in response to my reply to Tjalle. If a vote makes a delta of 3%, that means it was the 33rd vote, yes? That isn't speculation or conspiracy, just math. So if you know the total votes at that time, and how much each of those votes represent percentage wise, AND the percentage share each player has at the time, it is very basic math to derive total votes cast. As far as the rest of this thread goes, I don't care. But I made a simple point about the number of votes needed to swing the election that dramatically, and I've supported it with actual math. Dismissing the point based on "probablies" instead of "actually" is silly. Either provide real numbers to show how my point was wrong (can't be done, because math doesn't care about guild tags), or stop trying to discredit the point. I'm out Siege.

 

[Drakelord]

(And I can't believe I had to re-register on this website after posting for 10-15 years! Who can I ***** to about that!)

I had to do the same thing and you what really beats that is I still can fine post I made as Drakelord back before.

 

[kelmo]

Jeez... Let it go.

 

[Tyrath]

Hugibear for Governor! I know that might sound odd coming from me. Given that Bo and myself rarely miss a opportunity to prod each other in the past. But I am going to one time say this I have a lot of respect for BO and while he may not be the most vocal at supporting the shard, his existence adds a great deal to the shard and he cares about Siege Deeply. If and when Hugi runs again I shall be dropping my votes on the BO. This Brit election was more about getting Bo out of Brit than what was best for the shard. And in this case as has been proven with recent writings there was a conspiracy between TDO and GIL to overthrow Hugi, atleast in what Freja has written. I simply plan on balancing that out in the future. And am kicking myself for not throwing my votes behind BO this election because with them he would have won Brit quite handily. If BO/Hugi choose not to run again in the future, my votes will go to Valar/Garth or I will split my votes between the two as needed. No animosity to either TDO or GIL but it not going to be so easy for you in the next election cycle

 

[FrejaSP]

This Brit election was more about getting Bo out of Brit than what was best for the shard.

From TDO's side, it was about a member choosing a town and run for it. It was in no way about getting Bo out from TDO or my side. I already told Bo that. I'm happy to see a TDO as Governor of Britain and Yew. From TDO side, it was a fair race. I don't think we added more than max 10 votes, maybe less. I have no idea of how many voted for Hugi or if GIL did vote for Starcon.

What I did wrote was, I believe/believed GIL did want to split TDO votes between Yew, Britain and Minoc so they easier could let Vixen win Minoc. But sure, I can't know. I did have a problem with Vixen in Minoc as I did not want a virtue governor there and did not like the way Vixen got the town in first place.

I don't know who I will support next time, we will see. now lets move on.

 

[Tyrath]

LOL you will always support TDO as you should. I will support the more independent Candidates like Bo and Garth simply because they are no bound by any of the bigger guilds marching orders as I should or should have. This thread is about moving on, and will hopefully spur a couple of the other independent players to support the candidates that are not flying the big guilds tags in the future.

I want to see what is best for everyone and not just what is best for GIL or TDO

 

[TheDrAJ]

Well this got away over night. Someone said do the math way up the thread in response to my reply to Tjalle. If a vote makes a delta of 3%, that means it was the 33rd vote, yes? That isn't speculation or conspiracy, just math. So if you know the total votes at that time, and how much each of those votes represent percentage wise, AND the percentage share each player has at the time, it is very basic math to derive total votes cast. As far as the rest of this thread goes, I don't care. But I made a simple point about the number of votes needed to swing the election that dramatically, and I've supported it with actual math. Dismissing the point based on "probablies" instead of "actually" is silly. Either provide real numbers to show how my point was wrong (can't be done, because math doesn't care about guild tags), or stop trying to discredit the point. I'm out Siege.

If you can not see the difference between per cent and actual votes there is nothing I can say except you are wrong. If percents were given to 6 significant figures - you could tell with simple math.
First a delta of 3% does not mean the 33rd vote. Add in a third candidate and the votes only add to 99 which adds more uncertainty.

But it is obvious you don't want to see my point and I definitely can not see yours.
So I'm done with this thread also.

 

[Eärendil]

What I did wrote was, I believe/believed GIL did want to split TDO votes between Yew, Britain and Minoc so they easier could let Vixen win Minoc.

With regard to Yew: No. Last time I say that. Can we please stick to the facts?