This game is awesome.

[Tyrath]

Funny story when I bought UO it was UO:R and I fell in love instantly with the game... I knew my brother was a big game lover so at Thanksgiving that year I was going on about how I loved this game and he having actually played early pre-Tram UO looked at me with disgust in his face and tone and said "OU? That pile of **** WTF?! You couldn't pay me to play that ****! WTF you want to play that for?!?! That game sucks!" And we never really spoke of it again... he now plays WoW... which I give him a hard time about playing his Pokemon/Panda game...

And he won't ever return... even with Tram... even with all the changes. He won't even look at UO. Now my Sisters... I tried to get one of them to play even made a character and got her to log in... but she claims she's "too busy" to play a stupid game... and the other well... she and I are related somehow but she doesn't game. Must be a generational gap or something I don't know... she doesn't even own a computer... just her silly tablet.

Sad fact is UO has lost a number of players over the years and many of them... are like my brother... they would NEVER return... their experience with UO was so bad that nothing the DEVs could do would ever bring them back... UO fills them with disgust. Either due to their early experience in Pre-Tram... or experience with losing things from hackers, scammers, or glitches that cost them dearly and the experience scared them so deeply that they divorced themselves from the game so completely they won't ever return.

The ones who might return someday are the ones who just got bored and left... life got busy and they had to go... or they fell on hard times. But those scared and divorced will never return no matter what carrots you dangle or how many shinnies you try to bribe them with.

You hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph. Some got bored but by far the biggest number of people I know that left the game fell into the category of Life. A lot of us were in the 25 year old to 35 year old range when UO came out and were hitting peak points in Careers, having kids, and those damn adult responsibilities taking a ever increasing amount of our time. Ran across a couple of old friend IRL that used to play who are in their mid and late 40s and the conversation turned to UO and the fun we used to have back in the day. Jim says "To bad UO isn't still around." Tom says "Yep miss that game." Mike (Tyrath) Says " I still play when I can through the summer and a lot over the winter." Jaws dropped they had just figured UO was gone. Since Wednesday both have retrieved their old accts, activated them, upgraded them and are sorting through their toons and playing again.

I wonder now how many players like them just plain don't know the game is still here after taking 10-15 years off to take care of business IRL.

 

[FrejaSP]

Even less chance of proving your way lass.

Instead of using energi on Trammel, they should had worked on house secure stuff and maybe some kind of item Insurance.

Reasons people gave up:
#1 Losing your house key and with that losing everything in the house made a lot quit. I remember people complain, that even furnitures was looted and as you could not rekey the house, the house would never be secure again.

#2 Getting looted and had to run all the way home.

#3 Yes there was some who just could not accept the risk from thieves and PK's

Still we was a lot playing, was so easy to find someone to hunt with and if you recalled in to Brit Bank and said PK's at East road or Covetoes, there was always several ready to go hunt them.

We did not need Trammel, we only needed a few places where newbies could safe hunting and training and some safe places for crafting and trading. A lot could had been done to keep the community together like we have on Siege.

 

[Eärendil]

In this single point, we disagree, my queen

Point is: In the old days, playerbase was younger and much more immature. Hence, griefing and stuff were more prevalent. Trammel was necessary to save the game. I hated the raw and harsh atmosphere of this time. That's why I left for some years. I didn't want to get my free time destroyed by party-poopers.

Today, I am older and the playerbase is older as well. Everything is much better, except on Atlantic. Even a hardcore Trammie like me moved to Siege because people are more wise, polite and mature than in those days.

Not Trammel killed the game (which isn't dead anyways). IMHO its duping, cheating and shardhopping (transfers) which killed the economy and much fun and community.

 

[The Craftsman]

Even less chance of proving your way lass.

There is no onus on her to prove it. She said it killed it "for her" ... her opinion to which she is correct.

The previous poster has stated "Trammel saved UO" as fact. It isnt a fact and if youre going to quote it as such that is where the burden of proof lies.

 

[Tanivar]

The previous poster has stated "Trammel saved UO" as fact. It isnt a fact and if youre going to quote it as such that is where the burden of proof lies.

The massive bleeding of paying customers leaving the game stopped with the creation of Trammel. Those paying customers now had a UO they could enjoy playing because the pkers were kept in fel where they could be avoided. What more evidence do you need?

 

[FrejaSP]

In this single point, we disagree, my queen

So be it

Point is: In the old days, playerbase was younger and much more immature. Hence, griefing and stuff were more prevalent. Trammel was necessary to save the game. I hated the raw and harsh atmosphere of this time. That's why I left for some years. I didn't want to get my free time destroyed by party-poopers.

I'm older than you but I loved it. You did not really die, only your char. Yes you did get looted sometimes, but that added some challenge to the game.
Immature, maybe some was, but that do not always depend of age. Griefing, that often depend of how you reaact.
I could had accepted a few Trammel servers but in my opinion, Trammel destroyed Atlantic, I loved that shard, I loved spirit. Yes it was raw and could be harsh but I'm not the only one who loved it.

When Siege was born, half of the players went red but it become the only place for me, there was nothing left for me on Atlantic.
Some was crying about Siege being to to harsh and they nerfed Siege after a wipe After that, only half decided to stay on Siege.

Not Trammel killed the game (which isn't dead anyways). IMHO its duping, cheating and shardhopping (transfers) which killed the economy and much fun and community.

Most of this are much easier to handle on a non con shard, Siege prove this. I agree shard transfer was a big mistake

As we did not get to keep anny shard without Trammel except a very nerfed Siege shard, we can't know, what shards would had done best.

 

[FrejaSP]

The massive bleeding of paying customers leaving the game stopped with the creation of Trammel. Those paying customers now had a UO they could enjoy playing because the pkers were kept in fel where they could be avoided. What more evidence do you need?

A big part of that masive bleading of paying customers leaving was because of Stat Loss for reds.

It killed all the roleplaying reds as it destroyed their chars. They gave up.
The more hardcore would run in ganks to stay a live and go for an easy target. None of them was going to offer a fair fight and risk their skills.
The blue PvP'ers did not want to kill their more honorable red enemies as they did not want to ruin their chars.

All this did was to make a mega hate between red and blue. Blue hated to get ganked without a chance to fight and reds blamed blue for ruining their chars.

The reds tried to fight in guild wars but there was not enough to fight and yet we did not have faction.

It was so sad a time, I saw almost all my red friends give up the game.

You only know how it was from being a crafter/PvM'er to scared to leave town. I placed my first house in a PK village without knowing. I did not give up, I faced the challenge and got some cool friends I could let in my house, even when nothing could be locked down and most I did own was in my house.

Someone killed the game I loved and I will never forgive that. I was not a PK at that time, I tried to learn to PvP but had not yet killed anyone in defense.

 

[Balinor of Pk?]

Trammel saved UO

This is the silliest thing I've ever read. Do you even realize the number of people who played UO before trammel? People left in DROVES when trammel was implemented. I was there, I remember it vividly. Trammel didn't save UO, it saved Trammies. Get that straight. lol There was so many people on every shard, you couldn't go ANYWHERE in UO without seeing another person. Now, everywhere you go, is deserted usually. Except Luna. There was never a need to hunt multiple shards to find pvp... You could play ONE shard and have all the pvp you ever wanted. Now? Yea... That statement is about as silly of a statement as you could make. All trammel did was keep the people who wanted to chat, and craft, and farm 24/7 from leaving. Everyone else left.

 

[Eärendil]

Ok, whatever. But back to OP: The game is still awesome! Period!

 

[petemage]

Of course the game has many great areas. It's a great game indeed. I wish I could say the same about the current team, but it's really only the older things in the game that seem thought through. Newer things tend to be dead on arrival or horribly bugged (with a couple of exceptions maybe). UO lives of its legacy and the current team has to be very thankful that past teams did a better job to keep us playing..

 

[Aran]

This is the silliest thing I've ever read. Do you even realize the number of people who played UO before trammel? People left in DROVES when trammel was implemented. I was there, I remember it vividly. Trammel didn't save UO, it saved Trammies. Get that straight. lol There was so many people on every shard, you couldn't go ANYWHERE in UO without seeing another person. Now, everywhere you go, is deserted usually. Except Luna. There was never a need to hunt multiple shards to find pvp... You could play ONE shard and have all the pvp you ever wanted. Now? Yea... That statement is about as silly of a statement as you could make. All trammel did was keep the people who wanted to chat, and craft, and farm 24/7 from leaving. Everyone else left.

You're wrong but I forgive you.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Since there were actually semi-annually released sub numbers up until just after AoS, its quite easy to prove that UO gained a significant number of subs after Trammel was released - FAR more than during its pre-Renaissance days. Those numbers didn't really drop until after AoS.

Garriott's wild, wild west social experiment of player justice was (and he's admitted this) a dismal failure. The nostalgic, revisionist, rose colored glasses longing for that era never ceases to amaze me...

 

[Eärendil]

Its the pain that you feel, when you grow up and face the fact, that time is passing by. Greek word, nostos (Coming home) + Algos (Pain) = Nostalgia, Homesickness, Pain from looking back in time. You guys are simply suffering from a psychological disorder. It distorts your judgement of contemporary things...

 

[Archnight]

Do you even realize the number of people who played UO before trammel? People left in DROVES when trammel was implemented.

Some people left because of trammel, but more left with the Age of Shadows expansion. A lot of players didn't like the changes to the game, mainly going from skill-based to item-based... but the game is still here after 18 years and that's why it's still awesome

 

[Phantasmagorian]

Pre-trammel people were leaving and frustrated, but with a lot of issues that could have been solved in a myriad of others ways than creating a mirrored carebear facet. We never got see how that could have turned out. ArcheAge (3d sandbox mmorpg) has open pvp with some modifications and was wildly popular at alpha/launch, but Trion managed to mess it up. There would be a gigantic market for a properly done pre-trammel UO (..type of game). The game design just has to be done right.

 

[Aran]

Masses don't want open PvP. That's a big part of why people left ArcheAge, too. I'm an Archeum Founder, played alpha/beta, and still playing. Tons of people hate that they can't leave low level zones without risking their time being wasted by overgeared jerks looking for weak people to attack, or being killed repeatedly just trying to farm (which they fixed by making all housing safe areas)

There's a small niche of people who like open PvP all the time, and it's usually the overgeared jerks who want to attack everyone, anywhere, anytime, whether or not the person they're attacking is interested in PvP.

 

[Tyrath]

I am finding it rather disturbing that I am in agreement with Aran. Wanders off to get something stronger than beer.

 

[Tyrath]

Open Non Con PvP has failed miserably in every game that has tried it. Tram was the savior of UO it was what came after tram that hurt UO. AOS was a disaster in many ways its was literally the transition from the Age of Skills to the Age of Stuff. The launch was a disaster, how many times did you get a item or place a house, only to lose it to the next revert? Subs dropped after AOS because AOS sucked outloud in many aspects. SE and ML we actually saw subs pick up as witnessed by the number of active players. SA and High Seas we got more complex systems and more half baked unfinished content and the number of people declined again.

I will actually give credit to the Dev Flavor of the day. TOL is not my thing but they have discovered continuity in the game is important in keeping peoples interest. My suggestion would be to go back and revist ML content, SE Content, and expand and improve High Seas and bring it all together in some way that connects the lore and story lines. Right now we have a bunch of disconnected stuff that very often leaves me wondering how in the heck does this stuff even remotely relate to UO lore. And so much of it just leads to dead ends that is just frustrating that it was never expanded on or finished.

 

[Aran]

I still want my guns.

Ultima Prime had phasers and muskets.

Savage Empire, the non-Prime Worlds of Ultima game that Time of Legends is based on, had a bamboo flintlock and a "modern rifle", not to mention grenades.

 

[kelmo]

*smiles*

 

[Aran]

*smiles*

Great thread contribution Kelmo, your usual top quality posting shining through as usual! Keep it up!

 

[Tyrath]

I could roll with muskets and flint lock pistols. If we were shooting for accuracy those would have preceded cannons. To balance the flint locks out simply drop a 1 minute cool down on them and limit the number that a character can carry to 1 musket and 1 pistol. Give it a high base damage but a short range for the pistol and the same range as a long bow but with more punch. They would make very heavy hitting opening damage or finishing damage but worthless beyond the opening or closing of a fight. Maybe replace one of the dead skills with firearms and give a 5-10 second bonus for every 20 points of skill on the cool down.

 

[kelmo]

Would you prefer I pat yer head?

 

[WootSauce]

This game is a game!

 

[The Craftsman]

This game is a game!

Very true. Sometimes we seem to forget that.

Real life is awesome, this game, like all games, is just an amusing diversion..

 

[The Craftsman]

Would you prefer I pat yer head?

Yes Kelmo, we already knew that your *smiles* posts were condescending trolling, but thanks for confirming it with this reply

 

[Aran]

Would you prefer I pat yer head?

Rather you go wash some dishes.

 

[Lord Trollo]

hello

i'd rather kelmo washed MY dishes. does he do it by hand or by machine? the world might never know. Aran should be about due for a new motorcycle picture avatar at least. i look forward to those. i enjoy wondering if they are actually his or if he just gets them around the internet. if i had motorcycles, i would put them in my avatar too. i must say the lego signatures do look 100% authentic.
the game is whatever we make it. for some "the game" includes stratics... and yes, sometimes it's awesome. what say you citizens?

'The List'
Stratics 2016​

 

[Aran]

That's definitely me on my Ninja 250. Previous bike avatar was my FJR1300 before I removed all the LED lighting.

 

[Balinor of Pk?]

Open Non Con PvP has failed miserably in every game that has tried it.

FALSE. Dota2. Wildly popular. Top earning e-sport. Free game that generates millions upon millions for Valve Software. Please refer to genuine facts when making blanket statements people. There's a ton of open pvp games that are wildly popular. You're just using UO as your bar. UO's open pvp isn't wildly popular because EA killed it with statloss and trammel. That's a fact.

 

[Tyrath]

FALSE. Dota2. Wildly popular. Top earning e-sport. Free game that generates millions upon millions for Valve Software. Please refer to genuine facts when making blanket statements people. There's a ton of open pvp games that are wildly popular. You're just using UO as your bar. UO's open pvp isn't wildly popular because EA killed it with statloss and trammel. That's a fact.

Comparing a battle arena game and a MMORPG is apples and oranges. I Guess I should have specified MMORPG's I didn't think people would assume I meant Defense of the Ancients, or Halo, or Call of Duty that are nothing but combat games. The numbers prove your fact to be fiction. Stat loss may be why the PKs left but since the number shot up post Ren. it seems most people did not care for Fel PK aspect but loved the consensual aspect of Fel so much that you can go weeks or months without seeing another player in fel. Which leads to why was stat loss implemented in the first place?

 

[Aran]

FALSE. Dota2. Wildly popular. Top earning e-sport. Free game that generates millions upon millions for Valve Software. Please refer to genuine facts when making blanket statements people. There's a ton of open pvp games that are wildly popular. You're just using UO as your bar. UO's open pvp isn't wildly popular because EA killed it with statloss and trammel. That's a fact.

Dota2 doesn't have non-consensual PvP. The whole point of that game is PvP. Good job missing the entire point though!

 

[Balinor of Pk?]

And I think you're missing the point, he said that non censentual pvp games fail. And Dota2 is a FULL PVP GAME, and it's wildly successful. Comon guy, get with the program here. It's a fact that PVP based games, if consentual or not, are wildly popular if done correctly. Trammies are the minority, just not in UO.

Dota2 doesn't have non-consensual PvP. The whole point of that game is PvP. Good job missing the entire point though!

 

[Aran]

And... missed the point again.

 

[Tyrath]

And... missed the point again.

I do believe the point is not being missed but desperately avoided.

 

[Kirthag]

This game was awesome.

I played since January 2000 and no other game has had the impact on me that UO has. Spent so many fun hours being engrossed in this world. It was a truly amazing online experience at one time in its history, never bettered in my eyes to this day by any other game.

However, when I look back now over the years I just feel deeply saddened and disappointed by what it has become, for a whole host of reasons. Lack of investment by EA in both development and advertising, ever decreasing playerbase, many many dubious design choices by the devs, blatant condoning of scripters, dupers and hackers to highlight just a few. I could list dozens of lower level things that have hurt the game even more but wont bother.

I continue to follow its progress and live in hope that one day, something will happen to change things, be that EA selling the franchise, a classic server maybe, a F2P model perhaps.

With the right investment, development, advertising and direction, UO could have continued to be awesome. Instead its a niche, hotchpotch of a game, limping along on life support both in terms of player numbers and development. Deeply sad, but unfortunately true.

100%

 

[Gameboy]

Siege is mostly dead. I've been there. Sadly when I have time to play most shards are like a ghost town... besides which what I really enjoy about UO is RP... I didn't really find any of that on Siege nor did I find it that welcoming besides one guild which are truly wonderful folk... but sadly they don't seem to be around when I am.

I'm sorry but I don't find getting killed half the time I go somewhere fun or enjoyable. I don't find having someone jump me while I'm minding my own business fun either.

This kinda blew my mind. For me my experience on Siege was no more dead then other shards I have visited. Granted my home is Atlantic so that might be unfair. Though with that said everyone I have come across on Siege has been nothing but nice. I found it very welcoming and GIL the guild I was in was good. Maybe it might depend more on play times but I personally think that Siege is just as good/active as any other shard. Didn't they just have a void pool event too?

 

[MalagAste]

This kinda blew my mind. For me my experience on Siege was no more dead then other shards I have visited. Granted my home is Atlantic so that might be unfair. Though with that said everyone I have come across on Siege has been nothing but nice. I found it very welcoming and GIL the guild I was in was good. Maybe it might depend more on play times but I personally think that Siege is just as good/active as any other shard. Didn't they just have a void pool event too?

Again I really like GIL wonderful guild and yes very nice... problem is they don't do things when I'm available and no one really is around when I am on most shards save the asian ones but I can't play there the lag is horrible.

Also again I don't like Siege as I don't care to watch my back all the time ... if I'm going to go to a dungeon to farm stuff or go do whatever I don't want to have to always be looking over my shoulder waiting for some stealther to come popping out to kill me and take all my hard earned work... and while some of you think it's great fun or easy to just kill the attacker most of us don't. If I liked that kind of play I'd play those 1st person shooters, but I don't care for that kind of play and again Siege has ZERO insurance so you have everything to lose there. While it's "fun" on occasion to hop over and see what I can "get away with"... most the time when I want to play I really don't want to be looking over my shoulder again I play to "relax" ...... not be on edge and tense wondering when I might get jumped. And since the DEVs saw fit to make the Primers "Non-Transferable" that means that I really don't care to play on another shard anymore anyway since most everything I would want (level 3 primers).... I wouldn't be able to bring "home" anyway. But my interest in UO is dying quickly so I'm becoming more bias in that regard. At this point the game is centered and focused on items and stuff and it's lost most the community feel that I fell in love with in the first place and I guess the magic of that bygone era is wearing off.

 

[Gameboy]

I am

Again I really like GIL wonderful guild and yes very nice... problem is they don't do things when I'm available and no one really is around when I am on most shards save the asian ones but I can't play there the lag is horrible.

Also again I don't like Siege as I don't care to watch my back all the time ... if I'm going to go to a dungeon to farm stuff or go do whatever I don't want to have to always be looking over my shoulder waiting for some stealther to come popping out to kill me and take all my hard earned work... and while some of you think it's great fun or easy to just kill the attacker most of us don't. If I liked that kind of play I'd play those 1st person shooters, but I don't care for that kind of play and again Siege has ZERO insurance so you have everything to lose there. While it's "fun" on occasion to hop over and see what I can "get away with"... most the time when I want to play I really don't want to be looking over my shoulder again I play to "relax" ...... not be on edge and tense wondering when I might get jumped. And since the DEVs saw fit to make the Primers "Non-Transferable" that means that I really don't care to play on another shard anymore anyway since most everything I would want (level 3 primers).... I wouldn't be able to bring "home" anyway. But my interest in UO is dying quickly so I'm becoming more bias in that regard. At this point the game is centered and focused on items and stuff and it's lost most the community feel that I fell in love with in the first place and I guess the magic of that bygone era is wearing off.

Different strokes for different folks