Fixing VvV

[elster]

There has been a lot of discussion around PVP mechanics, but I want to talk about the current VvV system.

I am trying to think of a quick and easy fix to the existing system instead of an entirely new, revamped system (though I would much rather see that in the future). Small changes to an existing system in the meantime might be more plausible, and a better short-term solution.

- No more points for just being in town. This will get rid of the scripters being the only ones showing up on the scoreboard.
- Reset all points back to zero.
- The big (little) change: The town stays active for full server day and only switches after server down. I think this would make it more interesting. That town is where big VvV fights can be the entire day, and maybe move focus from the all day, everyday yew fights, and allow a change of scenery from day-to-day. Doing towns is no longer just going into a town, capturing a few alters, "winning the town", recalling out, and then being done with it for the day. It becomes a longer battle, with more strategy to think about. It'll make doing a town more substantial.
- Better rewards (or just substantially more silver) for guild who won the town for the day.

 

[Fridgster]

There has been a lot of discussion around PVP mechanics, but I want to talk about the current VvV system.

I am trying to think of a quick and easy fix to the existing system instead of an entirely new, revamped system (though I would much rather see that in the future). Small changes to an existing system in the meantime might be more plausible, and a better short-term solution.

- No more points for just being in town. This will get rid of the scripters being the only ones showing up on the scoreboard.
- Reset all points back to zero.
- The big (little) change: The town stays active for full server day and only switches after server down. I think this would make it more interesting. That town is where big VvV fights can be the entire day, and maybe move focus from the all day, everyday yew fights, and allow a change of scenery from day-to-day. Doing towns is no longer just going into a town, capturing a few alters, "winning the town", recalling out, and then being done with it for the day. It becomes a longer battle, with more strategy to think about. It'll make doing a town more substantial.
- Better rewards (or just substantially more silver) for guild who won the town for the day.

Wouldn't be very enjoyable to those that don't participate in vvv to have a town tied up all day. I'd vote no thank you.

 

[elster]

Wouldn't be very enjoyable to those that don't participate in vvv to have a town tied up all day. I'd vote no thank you.

Out of curiosity, what do you want to do in a fel town that you couldn't do in another? I rarely see anyone in fel cities, especially when VvV isn't up (and even then you hardly see anyone). At the moment it's pretty much a big waste of space. Seems like rarely anyone outside of VvV would be affected by this, and the extent of the inconvenience would pretty much be "****, I'll just go to britain instead". Not only that, but it takes away an inconvenience that the town you are in suddenly becomes the VvV town, and you safely know that it won't become one for the entire day. There is an RP side to it too like, "be careful if you have to venture to minoc today, big war going on". You'd have 1 out of MANY towns occupied for only 24 hours.

 

[Fridgster]

Out of curiosity, what do you want to do in a fel town that you couldn't do in another? I rarely see anyone in fel cities, especially when VvV isn't up (and even then you hardly see anyone). At the moment it's pretty much a big waste of space. Seems like rarely anyone outside of VvV would be affected by this, and the extent of the inconvenience would pretty much be "****, I'll just go to britain instead". Not only that, but it takes away an inconvenience that the town you are in suddenly becomes the VvV town, and you safely know that it won't become one for the entire day. There is an RP side to it too like, "be careful if you have to venture to minoc today, big war going on". You'd have 1 out of MANY towns occupied for only 24 hours.

Bribing comes to mind immediately. Collecting regs from npc, might live near the town (not everyone banks in luna). Yes I could just skip over the town I suppose. :shrugs: still annoying.

 

[Spock's Beard]

Yeah the guy who "lives near a town" in Felucca and walks to the bank there totally exists, and in large enough numbers to matter from a design perspective. You wanted a reason to say no to this idea, were asked for a reason, and couldn't come up with anything remotely good.

 

[Fridgster]

Yeah the guy who "lives near a town" in Felucca and walks to the bank there totally exists, and in large enough numbers to matter from a design perspective. You wanted a reason to say no to this idea, were asked for a reason, and couldn't come up with anything remotely good.

Yeah yeah as I was typing it I kinda realized I was reaching. Hence the back peddle above.

 

[elster]

Bribing comes to mind immediately. Collecting regs from npc, might live near the town (not everyone banks in luna). Yes I could just skip over the town I suppose. :shrugs: still annoying.

Fair points and I appreciate your feedback. My follow-up question would be: What would be more a more valuable improvement to UO, PVP or begging, considering the effect on beggars would be minimal?

 

[Fridgster]

Begging? Actually bribing bods was what I was referring to. But yeah yeah it would effect begging too lol. I admit my argument was poor. I retract my objection.

 

[Ellie]

As for one town being vvv for an entire day isnt a good idea. All towns on Siege are in fel. Its bad enough when someone goes into town and finds it vvv and turn orange. We might not be able to gate into town but we use the crystal portals and it doesnt say if a town is vvv or not.

 

[elster]

As for one town being vvv for an entire day isnt a good idea. All towns on Siege are in fel. Its bad enough when someone goes into town and finds it vvv and turn orange. We might not be able to gate into town but we use the crystal portals and it doesnt say if a town is vvv or not.

Ah this is definitely an oversight on my part. What is the "luna" of siege? (the town everyone aggregates to?). Would this still be WBB on siege? Forgive me for my ignorance.

 

[drcossack]

Ah this is definitely an oversight on my part. What is the "luna" of siege? (the town everyone aggregates to?). Would this still be WBB on siege? Forgive me for my ignorance.

I would assume Luna over there as well.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Ah this is definitely an oversight on my part. What is the "luna" of siege? (the town everyone aggregates to?). Would this still be WBB on siege? Forgive me for my ignorance.

SP and Mugen have all the same land masses, with the exception of Tram, as the Prodo Shards they are just under Fel rule set. And BOD bribery for non PvPers could be a big deal.

 

[FrejaSP]

Ah this is definitely an oversight on my part. What is the "luna" of siege? (the town everyone aggregates to?). Would this still be WBB on siege? Forgive me for my ignorance.

Luna is the Getto of Siege, many of us do not like that town. Zento and New Mag is used of the crafters, Umbra too, but the Traders quests share some towns with VvV and many really love Britain, Skare and Minoc.

- No more points for just being in town. This will get rid of the scripters being the only ones showing up on the scoreboard.

I can see the reason for this wish but the point is for being a live in town, for claiming alter and for turning in sigels. Maybe you should get less point for just being there and more point for the time you are fighting, attemping to claim alter, being near a sigel. So if you are doing nothing, you will only get 25% of the bar filled before town run out.

- Reset all points back to zero.

What about only keeping last 6 months scores.

- The big (little) change: The town stays active for full server day and only switches after server down. I think this would make it more interesting. That town is where big VvV fights can be the entire day, and maybe move focus from the all day, everyday yew fights, and allow a change of scenery from day-to-day. Doing towns is no longer just going into a town, capturing a few alters, "winning the town", recalling out, and then being done with it for the day. It becomes a longer battle, with more strategy to think about. It'll make doing a town more substantial.

Not sure about this one, I really like the switch between town, where players with little playtime can try to claim a town when on.
What about keeping track of the last 7 days. What Alliance/ Guild/Char won most towns, got most kills, turned in most sigels, died most that day, That would be fine with a new day starting after server down.
Not all guildmembers would need to be on lots of hours but they could still help the guild winning for the day.

- Better rewards (or just substantially more silver) for guild who won the town for the day.

Silver would be fine. I would like to see more rewards like the mounts, robes, potions, mana spike etc. Would be cool if you could show an alliance color on mount and robe, as second color the alliance leader choose, maybe on mane of the horse and a part of the robe.

I don't know how it works for reds and VvV town on Prodo, but we sure have a problem on Siege. Our reds can't use Virtue to res, there are no red healers and blue NPC's and guards get attacked of areal spells. We do have very few reds left, that's sad.

Also running to healers are a pain no matter of color, maybe we need a VvV reward, a kind of life stone, that can res you, when dying in a VvV battle. Maybe a delay from you die and to you can use it 20-30 sec? and can only be used once each 10 min, so if you get res killed, it's bad luck and will make it most useful in friendly fights.

Thanks for starting the thread, I'm sure Devs need some brainstorming for what could work.

 

[TimberWolf]

I still think all that is needed is to make vvv active on all facets. If you are orange you consent to Pvp...period. If you dont want to pvp, dont join VVV. Seems fairly simple and obvious to me. The towns are nice to collect points for items.... but that should just be one piece of the puzzle. I know people will scream about becoming temp orange by healing someone. all that takes is a "beneficial acts" gump which already exists in game.

 

[OREOGL]

There has been a lot of discussion around PVP mechanics, but I want to talk about the current VvV system.

I am trying to think of a quick and easy fix to the existing system instead of an entirely new, revamped system (though I would much rather see that in the future). Small changes to an existing system in the meantime might be more plausible, and a better short-term solution.

- No more points for just being in town. This will get rid of the scripters being the only ones showing up on the scoreboard.
- Reset all points back to zero.
- The big (little) change: The town stays active for full server day and only switches after server down. I think this would make it more interesting. That town is where big VvV fights can be the entire day, and maybe move focus from the all day, everyday yew fights, and allow a change of scenery from day-to-day. Doing towns is no longer just going into a town, capturing a few alters, "winning the town", recalling out, and then being done with it for the day. It becomes a longer battle, with more strategy to think about. It'll make doing a town more substantial.
- Better rewards (or just substantially more silver) for guild who won the town for the day.

Good ideas, but I'd only extend the battles an hour or two.

I'd like to see something else added to the mix instead of finding preset sigils or standing on an alter for a minute. But I have no idea what that'd be.

I'd also like traps to be more effective and remain until removed by someone with 100 remove trap similar to how it was in factions.

They should reduce the silver amount in some of the items like the robes which are essentially worthless. That or add stats to them to make them worth the value.

 

[Lord Arm]

I don't mind vvv but it has neg. affect the amount of pvp now. there is a lot less. I actually wish they get rid of it and more people will go to fel again. u don't need vvv to fight. bring back red vs blue, blue vs red. just bring back reds lol. just my opinion. illegal programs and making one client faster/better than the other doesn't help pvp either. another issue that really has pissed off non vvv people is when u hunt with a vvv person/friend, everyone else ends up orange and then accidently start attacking each other. ill say this again, the best pvp I ever had was when there was no vvv/factions, no extra, better free items for people. pvp was more fair then it ever has been for a long time. now every nonguild is your enemy. small vvv groups, non vvv people are at a big disadvantage which causes less pvp. many stopped going to fel just like before. I'm tired of getting murder counts from vvv blue raiding. no reds causes less pvp. get rid off vvv and make bucs and maybe serpents hold red towns for buff ect... i used to enjoy hunting blues with my red. most people like the idea, good vs evil.

 

[OREOGL]

I don't mind vvv but it has neg. affect the amount of pvp now. there is a lot less. I actually wish they get rid of it and more people will go to fel again. u don't need vvv to fight. bring back red vs blue, blue vs red. just bring back reds lol. just my opinion. illegal programs and making one client faster/better than the other doesn't help pvp either.

I'm not sure this is accurate.

One aspect the pardons changed is that there are no more or not as many blues sitting in guard zone waiting to gank someone who is actively piping someone else.

Turning them orange stops the griefing, so if it turn it reduced the amount of "griefers" then I'm all for it.

The 3rd party programs and file editing had more of a detriment to pvp than anything.

If it were universally accessed then it wouldn't matter but they give enough of an edge to be a huge advantage over legit players.

Using scripts to take out the human element(healing,chugging,consumeables), speed hacking that allows them to outrun any sort of damage or allow them to maintain range over someone trying to run from it is the real issues here and is not equal to using EC. The debate there is moot.

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

i'm not too fond of making a single town VvV all day on the lower population shards.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I still think all that is needed is to make vvv active on all facets. If you are orange you consent to Pvp...period. If you dont want to pvp, dont join VVV. Seems fairly simple and obvious to me. The towns are nice to collect points for items.... but that should just be one piece of the puzzle. I know people will scream about becoming temp orange by healing someone. all that takes is a "beneficial acts" gump which already exists in game.

Are you suggesting that if you are in VvV that you can be killed anywhere even in a Tram ruleset or are you asking that UO allows VvV towns in the Tram ruleset? If you are asking for VvV towns in the Tram Ruleset land masses no thank you. If you are asking to be able to kill a VvV member anywhere in UO then UO will need to find a way to turn this off during events/get togethers, there were very few events that were done in a Fel ruleset that did not turn into a total cluster with all the ganking going on that the event was stopped. There would be nothing to stop VvV players killing other VvV players and taking the chance to ruin everything.

 

[TimberWolf]

Are you suggesting that if you are in VvV that you can be killed anywhere even in a Tram ruleset or are you asking that UO allows VvV towns in the Tram ruleset? If you are asking for VvV towns in the Tram Ruleset land masses no thank you. If you are asking to be able to kill a VvV member anywhere in UO then UO will need to find a way to turn this off during events/get togethers, there were very few events that were done in a Fel ruleset that did not turn into a total cluster with all the ganking going on that the event was stopped. There would be nothing to stop VvV players killing other VvV players and taking the chance to ruin everything.

Interesting...at the events I have attended if a few oranges killed a few oranges....it wouldnt effect anything at all. Lets face it there is so much death and lag at em events no one would really notice

And again if you didnt want to participate...just attend on a blue. ( assuming the Bene acts mod I suggested is in place). Further...on catskills for example fel events are by far the most popular. At the recent EM meet and greet Dramanar ( sp) seemed inundated with requests for more fel events.

All I am suggesting is consensual pvp on every facet in the game. You either opt in or you opt out. If you want the vvv deco or the vvv items then you opt in. If pvp gives you nightmares and just ruins your idea of fun...then you opt out. If you opt in....then yes you are free to kill anytime and any place. And yes I propose that just like that VVV crimmy..that falls into your backpack if you drop VVV, .if a house owner has VVV banners on the wall they have to remain in VVV or their banners redeed and fall into the house sign for retrieval.

The governor's trade deals are pvp based, ( or atleast highly sought after by pvpers) but elections are limited to tram. Why not make VVV in tram towns ( with appropriate warnings) and points go to the Gov stone for town upgrades. Again if you are blue and in vesper bank sitting....and your town goes active....no worries to you at all. You would be able to be attacked.

Orange would be the new Red

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

..If you want the vvv deco or the vvv items then you opt in. ...if a house owner has VVV banners on the wall they have to remain in VVV or their banners redeed and fall into the house sign for retrieval.

NO. i didn't spend all that time in VvV just for grins. i earned my rewards regardless of whether i remain in VvV or not.

 

[FrejaSP]

And yes I propose that just like that VVV crimmy..that falls into your backpack if you drop VVV, .if a house owner has VVV banners on the wall they have to remain in VVV or their banners redeed and fall into the house sign for retrieval.

I don't agree with this, it is a good way for VvV to make gold, selling deco to non VvV, I believe that is all fine.

 

[elster]

Good ideas, but I'd only extend the battles an hour or two.

I'd like to see something else added to the mix instead of finding preset sigils or standing on an alter for a minute. But I have no idea what that'd be.

I'd also like traps to be more effective and remain until removed by someone with 100 remove trap similar to how it was in factions.

They should reduce the silver amount in some of the items like the robes which are essentially worthless. That or add stats to them to make them worth the value.

I like the idea of the compromise of a battle lasting an hour or two. In my head, my suggestion of the town lasting the entire day solved two problems. One being that you never know what town is up without logging. You log in once, and you know what the town is. Secondly, just changing how substantial / "worth it" it would be to do a town. If the fight for the town was more significant, I would hope it would be more appealing. After reading the feedback here, It really does seem that my suggestion had flaws, but I'm glad it was able to at least start a discussion / brainstorm.

 

[Giggles]

Not sure if its been said here yet but...

CAN WE PLEASE... PLEASE.... Make it so when wandering guards walk through fields casted by red players, In ACTIVE VvV towns, it doesn't guard wack the caster of the fields?
I mean honestly.... People have been complaining about this since it was released. Waiting this long for something that broken to be fixed is a little... .

I may or may not be ranting do to dying because of this again earlier today....

 

[drcossack]

Not sure if its been said here yet but...

CAN WE PLEASE... PLEASE.... Make it so when wandering guards walk through fields casted by red players, In ACTIVE VvV towns, it doesn't guard wack the caster of the fields?
I mean honestly.... People have been complaining about this since it was released. Waiting this long for something that broken to be fixed is a little... .

I may or may not be ranting do to dying because of this again earlier today....

OMG. I completely forgot about this. Why has this not been fixed yet? I know, for me at least, it was one of the reasons I went blue in the first place. One wandered into my poison fields, did 116/124 HP, and, well...

@Kyronix, any chance of this getting fixed? Maybe just by removing the old wandering NPC guards?

 

[Drakelord]

There has been a lot of discussion around PVP mechanics, but I want to talk about the current VvV system.

I am trying to think of a quick and easy fix to the existing system instead of an entirely new, revamped system (though I would much rather see that in the future). Small changes to an existing system in the meantime might be more plausible, and a better short-term solution.

- No more points for just being in town. This will get rid of the scripters being the only ones showing up on the scoreboard.
- Reset all points back to zero.
- The big (little) change: The town stays active for full server day and only switches after server down. I think this would make it more interesting. That town is where big VvV fights can be the entire day, and maybe move focus from the all day, everyday yew fights, and allow a change of scenery from day-to-day. Doing towns is no longer just going into a town, capturing a few alters, "winning the town", recalling out, and then being done with it for the day. It becomes a longer battle, with more strategy to think about. It'll make doing a town more substantial.
- Better rewards (or just substantially more silver) for guild who won the town for the day.

ONE BIG PROBLEM I SEE:

Siege has no Tram to run to for banking needs, Siege players do live just outside many cities and do shop/bank at those cities nearest them since there is no way to any city except by gating, characters that cannot gate are require to RUN to the nearest town, trade missions are daily, its a PAIN IN THE BUTT when trying to gate to a city and cannot due to VvV running at that time in that city. Going to the City Stone for you daily boost, shopping (at three times the prices at all NPC) and then to be blocked from going to a city because its in a ALL day battle with VvV. So you can see my answer is NO NO NO.

 

[OREOGL]

ONE BIG PROBLEM I SEE:

Siege has no Tram to run to for banking needs, Siege players do live just outside many cities and do shop/bank at those cities nearest them since there is no way to any city except by gating, characters that cannot gate are require to RUN to the nearest town, trade missions are daily, its a PAIN IN THE BUTT when trying to gate to a city and cannot due to VvV running at that time in that city. Going to the City Stone for you daily boost, shopping (at three times the prices at all NPC) and then to be blocked from going to a city because its in a ALL day battle with VvV. So you can see my answer is NO NO NO.

I thought a couple hours would work, but I've been wrong before.

Do you have any times you think would work with Siege (if any)?

 

[Drakelord]

I thought a couple hours would work, but I've been wrong before.

Do you have any times you think would work with Siege (if any)?

Sorry no I don't.

 

[elster]

ONE BIG PROBLEM I SEE:

Siege has no Tram to run to for banking needs, Siege players do live just outside many cities and do shop/bank at those cities nearest them since there is no way to any city except by gating, characters that cannot gate are require to RUN to the nearest town, trade missions are daily, its a PAIN IN THE BUTT when trying to gate to a city and cannot due to VvV running at that time in that city. Going to the City Stone for you daily boost, shopping (at three times the prices at all NPC) and then to be blocked from going to a city because its in a ALL day battle with VvV. So you can see my answer is NO NO NO.

Yes, this has already been mentioned and acknowledged.

 

[FrejaSP]

The problem with having to log out and in to know what town is VvV could be solved with adding a command so if you ask something like VvV town, you will get town name and time left.

 

[Scribbles]

scripters that just log in and get points.... you mean like these guys... almost every time i go to do vvv these people are the only ones in town and they arent actually participating in anything.



Here is a list ive posted and sent to mesanna several times now.


1. get rid of the big bulky window. No PvPer has room for that on the screen.
2. Make the usable rewards... crimson for example more expensive to get. After someone joins and gets the free 500 and buys a crimmy there is no reason to continue.
3. make it harder to stealth in these towns. put a timer on it.
4. put the alters in a place where choke points can be built.
5. give a monthly or quarterly special reward to the player with best kd ratio or most kills for that quater or most alters won... etc...
6. Put red healers in fel towns...
7. Get rid of towns with out moongates close by (ocllo)
8. make traps last until they are broken.
9. make the turn in for sigils stolen a timer like alters. probably not as long but they should have to wait making it possible to catch thieves.
10. get rid of all the junk arti rewards... They are useless no one uses them, especially since the new loot system has been in place.
11. make rewards harder to achieve. let us store more points past 10k.
12. add clean up dyes to rewards, or new pvp specific dyes. PvPers love their colors...
13. spawn monsters at each stage of an alter being held. this would entice more people to vvv therefore more pvp.
14. give a scroll if an alter has been fought for. If possession changes once, give a 105, twice 110, 3 times 115, 4 times 120. Make it unscriptable. Good luck with that part...
15. perhaps tie in vvv with champ spawns... bring both back into popularity...
16. spawn a harby if 5 alters are won in a row.
17. If towns are won by a certain guild over and over make a public gen chat announcement to everyone on how bad ass they are...
18. If someone enters a vvv area their bar gets put up to everyone else in the area... and vice versa
19. make a high end reward that gives a random legendary item.
20. try to get more non vvv players into those area for more killing. Risk reward scenarios.... fel thunts, champs, harbys... anything to make it worth it for pvmers to try and compete
21. make a reward a runebook to all vvv towns thats blessed in the name of the toon that receives it. let it gain a charge every 6 hours.
22. Dont ever stop changing or updating the system. As soon as you stop it gets un popular.
23. Take advice from actual pvpers... These are the people you weeded out because they had reports on their accounts. These are the people you constantly disregard even though they pay the same subs. wipe all reports and start clean for everyone. I guarantee the reports are from a time when you actually enforced the rules.
24. Do something with the name VvV... what is the point of vice vs virtue.... from what i can tell there is none.

 

[FrejaSP]

13. spawn monsters at each stage of an alter being held. this would entice more people to vvv therefore more pvp.

Most PvP'ers do not want to fight monsters, I sure not like this one

14. give a scroll if an alter has been fought for. If possession changes once, give a 105, twice 110, 3 times 115, 4 times 120. Make it unscriptable. Good luck with that part...

not sure I like this one, will be hard to stop the scripters.

20. try to get more non vvv players into those area for more killing. Risk reward scenarios.... fel thunts, champs, harbys... anything to make it worth it for pvmers to try and compete

They really don't want to PvP, it will only make more hate

Else some nice ideas, some I'm not sure about

 

[Scribbles]

Most PvP'ers do not want to fight monsters, I sure not like this one


not sure I like this one, will be hard to stop the scripters.


They really don't want to PvP, it will only make more hate

Else some nice ideas, some I'm not sure about

most of what you dont like is because its not specific to siege. There obviously should be some exceptions for siege.

Specifically for siege im not sure why they would even put vvv into towns. So many players rely on being close to town as a fail safe. Siege definitely requires a bit more thought

 

[FrejaSP]

most of what you dont like is because its not specific to siege. There obviously should be some exceptions for siege.

Specifically for siege im not sure why they would even put vvv into towns. So many players rely on being close to town as a fail safe. Siege definitely requires a bit more thought

View attachment 47586

Think you confuses me with Drakelord

I like this ones: # 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 12, 17, 19, 22

I would not use dev time on this ones: # 4, 7, 8, 10, 14, 15, 21, 23, 24

I dislike this ones: # 13, 18, 16, 20,

#7 all on prodo can recall without skills and on Siege, you can gate to a boat without skill and regs, that helps, when we can't recall.

 

[elster]

I actually love most of the ideas @Scribbles has. There are a lot of things in there that will make doing VvV towns more "significant" and worth it. I also love the idea of the altars in choke points (jhelom docks is a good, currently used example location), and if that is the case, possibly lengthening the time it would take to get an altar would go well with that. I love the idea of monsters spawning as well, but understand how some would rather not. The suggestions overall would just make the entire thing way more interesting.

 

[Merus]

What if (and this is just a basic framework kind of idea), instead of alters to claim, it was some sort of high end beastie that needed to be defeated. Think harrower fights in the towns...
Damage the monster/prevent others from doing damage.
Damage would be tracked by guild with vvv points awarded to the winning guild (like alters).
Give it some Virtuebane level loot, high intensity but only a few pieces (2-3 per attacker).

Would reduce the "hide in town" strategy for points, while keeping something to fight over.

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

These ideas are good ... for Atlantic. Try doing VvV on a lower population shard.

 

[elster]

These ideas are good ... for Atlantic. Try doing VvV on a lower population shard.

Feel free to elaborate. Are those on lower population shards happy with the way it is?

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

What if (and this is just a basic framework kind of idea), instead of alters to claim, it was some sort of high end beastie that needed to be defeated. Think harrower fights in the towns...
Damage the monster/prevent others from doing damage.
Damage would be tracked by guild with vvv points awarded to the winning guild (like alters).
Give it some Virtuebane level loot, high intensity but only a few pieces (2-3 per attacker).

Would reduce the "hide in town" strategy for points, while keeping something to fight over.

All of this was addressed in the VvV focus group. Again, it fell on deaf ears. Good luck getting anything changed.