The reason the High Seas are so empty

[GarthGrey]

Hey Guys , lets go do some High Seas action.... yayyyyy !!!

Ok I'll go make some ammo...be right back guys yayyyy !!!


Now lets see.....i need to shoot the cannon....hrm, it says I need a light or heavy charge....

Hang on Guys I"m making ammo..I'll be right there....Yayyy !!!!!

Now let's see...I have on alchy....ah ha Black Powder...yayyy!!!!

To make black powder I need....6 salt peter, 1 charcoal and 1 ash.....umm, wait I dont have Salt peter, Oh, it says I just need to sail out to the Sea Market and buy it.....(skips part where I had to acquire a boat)....sails to market and finds the NPC alchy.. yayyy !!!.....Saltpeter..440gp each, wth....This is because Mesanna and crew thought it would be cool if the community worked together for this ingredient yayyy!!!!! It's ran up this high from people buying it non stop, and it won't go back down until some poor sap digs up some niter and then digs that into salt peter, in another endless grind which is part of another story, and then sells it back to the NPC.

ok ....alchy menu has Fuse yayyy!!!......ok I need 1 black powder.... :-(

Ok ok, limme start over...so I need charcoal....ok thats just boards..yayyy !!! I can make as many at a time as i can hold...cool..*whips out 300 charcoal real quick*...that wasn't so bad....

Ok Potash....that only takes boards and water...grabs another 300 boards with an endless pitcher of water...craft craft craft....1 potash....wth

Hang on guys , i've almost got it figured out...yayyy!!!!!

Checks vendor search........zip

Sneaks out the back door , leaving the friends.......yay....thank you devs...

And I could have made this much more drawn out by following your ridiculous incorporated method for simply crafting the damn ammo.......

 

[Jumper]

Agree!

 

[GarthGrey]

This is a pitiful excuse for game content and was clearly designed by Devs that have no desire to actually play the very game they design for.

 

[kelmo]

GG, I am with you here. The High Seas could use some love. We have plenty of land and dungeons...

 

[Uriah Heep]

Of all the poorest, grindiest, boringest, most ridiculous things UO has introduced in the last 7-8 years, this is the top of the line...I was one of em all excited by the announcement, and that fizzled immediately upon my first prep to go to sea with cannons. Took em off the ship, never put em back.

Totally useless system the way it is now

 

[GarthGrey]

GG, I am with you here. The High Seas could use some love. We have plenty of land and dungeons...

Agreed, I've still gotten plenty of use out of it myself. As you know on Siege, they were nice enough to leave our Sea Market NPC alone, but they never fixed his spawn rate, which can be equally brutal.

 

[GarthGrey]

And yes, I know, they gave us the ship paintings...big deal....it takes longer to make the black powder/fuses...give me a Fuse Painting or 10, and i'll shut up about it...for a while ;-)

 

[Dot_Warner]

I agree wholeheartedly that HS needs love, and a near-complete make over.

Cannoneering needs to be massively simplified. While saltpeter can be mined, getting enough of it do to anything worthwhile is just not fun. Making all of the multi-step supplies you will need to fire a cannon kills most people's enthusiasm.

So, lets say you made all the crap you need, and you know how to work a cannon efficiently. Everyone in your party has say 20 shots of for a heavy cannon (don't bother with light cannon, as you will get more light cannon ammo/charges then you know what to do with as loot)

So, you want to go out and fight a pirate, right? Enjoy you long, horribly boring, group-enthusiasm-killing sail TO the sea market and then TO a pirate (the closest decent hunting grounds are the waters east of Jhelom). Here you get to battle clumsy mechanics and random pirate ship bugs (like the fact they sometimes still fire at your vessel even though the crew is dead...) to get a random assortment of resources, some booze and fish steaks that most lost interest in 2 years ago, a white die tub that everyone and the dragon already has, and oh, yeah... refinements to throw in the trash. Best part, now you get to sail BACK to the sea market! You'll marvel at how few of your party members manage to remain at their keyboards.

Pirate hunting is actually FAR easier in Tokuno due to the significantly smaller map size and central quest-giver location at the Zento dock. But if more than say two ships are out hunting pirates at once...

The FUN things in HS are still Corgul and Scalis. The pointlessness of the Charybdis encounter is better left ignored and forgotten.

Things to improve HS:

• Simplify ALL steps in supplying cannons.
• Streamline firing cannons (i.e. LESS CLICKS!)
• Add pirate quest-givers to Jhelom, Serpent's Hold & Trinsic docks
• Add additional pirate and merchant spawn points
• Create additional themed ships: undead, evil mage, daemons etc.
• Cycle the loot on the ships (add random ML/SA ingredients in decent quantities, etc. Sea-themed artifacts?)
• Create temporary buffs that can be applied to your ship made from ingredients acquired from HS content.
• etc.

I'd suggest making a quicker way to the sea market from land at this point. The novelty of sailing to it wore off about a month after release...

 

[MalagAste]

I agree wholeheartedly that HS needs love, and a near-complete make over.

Cannoneering needs to be massively simplified. While saltpeter can be mined, getting enough of it do to anything worthwhile is just not fun. Making all of the multi-step supplies you will need to fire a cannon kills most people's enthusiasm.

So, lets say you made all the crap you need, and you know how to work a cannon efficiently. Everyone in your party has say 20 shots of for a heavy cannon (don't bother with light cannon, as you will get more light cannon ammo/charges then you know what to do with as loot)

So, you want to go out and fight a pirate, right? Enjoy you long, horribly boring, group-enthusiasm-killing sail TO the sea market and then TO a pirate (the closest decent hunting grounds are the waters east of Jhelom). Here you get to battle clumsy mechanics and random pirate ship bugs (like the fact they sometimes still fire at your vessel even though the crew is dead...) to get a random assortment of resources, some booze and fish steaks that most lost interest in 2 years ago, a white die tub that everyone and the dragon already has, and oh, yeah... refinements to throw in the trash. Best part, now you get to sail BACK to the sea market! You'll marvel at how few of your party members manage to remain at their keyboards.

Pirate hunting is actually FAR easier in Tokuno due to the significantly smaller map size and central quest-giver location at the Zento dock. But if more than say two ships are out hunting pirates at once...

The FUN things in HS are still Corgul and Scalis. The pointlessness of the Charybdis encounter is better left ignored and forgotten.

Things to improve HS:

• Simplify ALL steps in supplying cannons.
• Streamline firing cannons (i.e. LESS CLICKS!)
• Add pirate quest-givers to Jhelom, Serpent's Hold & Trinsic docks
• Add additional pirate and merchant spawn points
• Create additional themed ships: undead, evil mage, daemons etc.
• Cycle the loot on the ships (add random ML/SA ingredients in decent quantities, etc. Sea-themed artifacts?)
• Create temporary buffs that can be applied to your ship made from ingredients acquired from HS content.
• etc.

I'd suggest making a quicker way to the sea market from land at this point. The novelty of sailing to it wore off about a month after release...

I always wondered why in the heck the Sea Market was put all they freelling way up there by Moonglow and such when the Pirates are CLEAR down in the lower middle of the map... putting the Sea Market in the VAST empty area near that other Serpent pillar there would have been FAR wiser... But what do I know?

And if any of you remember how bugged and hideous it all was at release shoved out the door in what felt like a 1/2 done state I think you would appreciate Eodon more. Done by a crew much smaller with far fewer bugs and even though largely empty it was tested far better before being released upon us. I remember the nightmare of High Seas... I still enjoy a good Pirate hunt but yes it's extremely time consuming and insanely complicated. What's worse is you have to use nearly all your crafting skills to make this piece then that part then find the crafting skill to make this piece and then put them all together with that skill... FAR too much of a pain.

I would much prefer click load (target ammo), click Fire, click clean... repeat.

 

[Varingian]

I do a lot of High Seas stuff. I don't find it that bad or that much of a grind. Having said that I am all for some improvements and additions. Lets start by adding granite to merchant ship holds. They carry every other resource already. Mining for enough shadow granite for house customization is way more of a grind than mining for salt peter.

 

[Varingian]

If you can't make a macro to clean, load, and prime your cannon with a single key stroke you aren't trying very hard. Very easy especially in the EC.

 

[GarthGrey]

Well there ya go folks, the Varingian thinks its fine the way it is..just put more stuff on it that he wants...nothing to see here...move along.

 

[Varingian]

Well there ya go folks, the Varingian thinks its fine the way it is..just put more stuff on it that he wants...nothing to see here...move along.

Sarcastic little *&^% aren't ya? My opinion of the content clearly differs from yours. No need to be a d&^k.

 

[GarthGrey]

People who think something is fine the way it is, shouldn't really bother responding, unless of course it's a Poll, which this clearly isn't. My post was about the emptiness of High Seas, not about how much fun The Varingian has doing it, because he has a clever EC macro and works really hard at it.

 

[Varingian]

The next time some one wants something changed in say...PvP...I'll try and remember to remind the posters who like it the way it is that 'Its not a poll'. What the heck is wrong with you tonight Grumpy Gus?

 

[Goodmann]

The boat cannon system is the worst ever. I hope whoever created it that there ship has long sailed away from the UO team.
High seas would be awesome if not for the glitchyness of sailing. Ever tried to right anyone/anything while sailing? Not fun.. Another missed opurtunity to have an awesome system with water spawns/pvp ect

 

[GarthGrey]

The boat cannon system is the worst ever. I hope whoever created it that there ship has long sailed away form the UO team.
High seas would be awesome if not for the glitchyness of sailing. Ever tried to right anyone/anything while sailing? Not fun.. Another missed opurtunity to have an awesome system with water spawns/pvp ect

I enjoy the part where you pull up alongside a merchant vessel, jump off of your mount and it scares the npc captain so bad that he takes off....its ridiculous coding. The video the devs showed of High Seas , with the audience was cool, but I don't remember anyone asking "so how do you make that ammo that you just fired, that had everyone Ooohing and Aaahhing"..it would have been a different reaction if they had shown the steps to crafting ammo.

 

[Uriah Heep]

If you can't make a macro to clean, load, and prime your cannon with a single key stroke you aren't trying very hard. Very easy especially in the EC.

LOL I wondered how long it would take for the to come out...

 

[Varingian]

Come on Uriah you are better then that. I originally stated "I don't find it that bad or that much of a grind." Which is to say its bad and its a grind but to a lesser degree than previously stated. If that's cheer leading, those are some ugly cheer leaders. Pointing out that there is a way to simplify the bulky cannon mechanic seemed like a logical thing to post. Looking back at it I think I see where things went wrong....I mentioned its easy in EC. I did this only because I have never done it in the CC and don't know if it is easy or hard there. I could be wrong here but I think it was the mention of the EC that irritated Grumpy GarthGrey.

Sorry for mentioning the EC Grumpy. Now as I said before,,I am all for improvements and additions to High Seas content so back on track.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Yeah I mighta been a bit grumpy too...but thinking about how fun the HS *could* be as opposed to the clickfest huntfest it is now always makes me a bit short...I dont mind making the ammo, nor the powder, it makes sense actually. But the thought process that came up with what we have now eludes me.

"Hey, let's add cannons and stuff to the ships, and make bigger ships, and let them fight orc ships and pirates and stuff. But to make it 'engaging' we will make them work half a day and jump thru all kinda hoops to make enough goods to fight two or three ships. That will keep them busy a while and make them appreciate it more!!"

amazing...

 

[Petra Fyde]

If you can't make a macro to clean, load, and prime your cannon with a single key stroke you aren't trying very hard. Very easy especially in the EC.

Humor me, tell me how to do this, cos I'm dense enough to not be able to work it out? (in a PM if you want to avoid further trolling on that )

I do like high seas, and quite often go chasing merchant ships in Tokuno. Less often I get together with guild mates and take on the pirate quests.

Periodically I spend a while crafting stock, so when the mood takes me to go play pirate I just have to load up and go.

 

[Acid Rain]

You can fire 4 cannons solo while standing in a single spot. You can make macros for each cannon in the CC using UOA and easier in the EC, just add delays between actions. A good pirate can scuttle ships in 9-12 volleys, at the most 15. The actions needed to ready cannons are fairly accurate historically. I played High Seas for months and loved it.

The grind for material needs is insanely painstaking but this was obviously by design to make the encounter move along slower. If your trying to figure it out for the 1st time while all your friends wait for you... you deserve to be shown for the fool that your being. This same situation trying Medusa would have your friends waiting hours only to fail because no one has Gorgon lens (which also can take hours to craft enough for a large party). How long does it take to farm keys for the much shorter and less content Exodus encounter? I just crafted 7 sets for my guild and it took me well over an hour.

Many encounters in UO aren't meant to just run into without any planning or foresight. High Seas Pirating is one of them.

PS. These forums give voice to ALL players. If you don't want others posting their thoughts possibly contradictory to your own, you shouldn't post here.

 

[Kojak]

psst ... you don't have to sail all the way back to the floating dock if you know what you're doing

 

[BeaIank]

I have once... considered doing pirate hunting. Made them cannons, even got heavy powder charger from the painting.
Then I saw the grind and madness that is to do all the remaining components. No thanks.
To this day, I am yet to shoot anything with the cannons on my boat and that shall remain to be the case until they streamline the process to build the materials needed to shoot the bloody things.

 

[Parnoc]

Humor me, tell me how to do this, cos I'm dense enough to not be able to work it out? (in a PM if you want to avoid further trolling on that )

I do like high seas, and quite often go chasing merchant ships in Tokuno. Less often I get together with guild mates and take on the pirate quests.

Periodically I spend a while crafting stock, so when the mood takes me to go play pirate I just have to load up and go.

For me it's actually easier to make one in the CC with UOA than it is in the EC, but it is just like actually doing it to make the macro, very very touchy and testy and time consuming. Once done, yes it is wonderful but why does it take this much of a complicated process?

 

[Parnoc]

psst ... you don't have to sail all the way back to the floating dock if you know what you're doing

??? Psssst --- please share your little secret with us, we promise we will not tell a soul.

 

[Gem]

Agree with OP.
Was so excited to get NPC pirates, and cannons, and being able to paint boats....but it the rewards vs. effort just is not worth it.

 

[Landicine]

Two quick points:

1. It seems unfair to blame Mesanna for content that was from two producers ago. To demonstrate, here are the slides from the High Seas town hall where Cal Crowner introduced the "booster" format which lasted a very short time. Various dev teams over the years have added things that never got updated or removed or fixed. The sad fact is that a lot of game content needs updating, and I don't think there are enough devs for all of it.

2. Between saltpeter mining to make fuses and the powder charges from the Ship Painting from the King's Collection, getting the supplies for High Seas is a lot easier than it was originally. I do think they should have also fixed prices on saltpeter at the sea market originally to make it not such a poor deal.

That said, it is a struggle to find people to go pirate hunting because the time and resource investment is relatively high for not very impressive rewards. While it can be fun to chase after a pirate ship and blast cannons, the various systems could really use a tweak. My suggestions:

1. Simplify cannon firing. Keep the resource requirements, but cut the number of clicks in half.

2. Make turning saltpeter into blackpowder a little less laborious. Tweaking up the success rate could help.

3. Improve the rewards on the mobs of High Seas that fight back (pirate ships, Charybdis, etc.).

 

[Uvtha]

Hey Guys , lets go do some High Seas action.... yayyyyy !!!

Ok I'll go make some ammo...be right back guys yayyyy !!!


Now lets see.....i need to shoot the cannon....hrm, it says I need a light or heavy charge....

Hang on Guys I"m making ammo..I'll be right there....Yayyy !!!!!

Now let's see...I have on alchy....ah ha Black Powder...yayyy!!!!

To make black powder I need....6 salt peter, 1 charcoal and 1 ash.....umm, wait I dont have Salt peter, Oh, it says I just need to sail out to the Sea Market and buy it.....(skips part where I had to acquire a boat)....sails to market and finds the NPC alchy.. yayyy !!!.....Saltpeter..440gp each, wth....This is because Mesanna and crew thought it would be cool if the community worked together for this ingredient yayyy!!!!! It's ran up this high from people buying it non stop, and it won't go back down until some poor sap digs up some niter and then digs that into salt peter, in another endless grind which is part of another story, and then sells it back to the NPC.

ok ....alchy menu has Fuse yayyy!!!......ok I need 1 black powder.... :-(

Ok ok, limme start over...so I need charcoal....ok thats just boards..yayyy !!! I can make as many at a time as i can hold...cool..*whips out 300 charcoal real quick*...that wasn't so bad....

Ok Potash....that only takes boards and water...grabs another 300 boards with an endless pitcher of water...craft craft craft....1 potash....wth

Hang on guys , i've almost got it figured out...yayyy!!!!!

Checks vendor search........zip

Sneaks out the back door , leaving the friends.......yay....thank you devs...

And I could have made this much more drawn out by following your ridiculous incorporated method for simply crafting the damn ammo.......

Was terrible design on day one of high seas, it's terrible design today. It's as if they came up with an idea that had potential, and sat down and said "how can we strip the fun out of this system?" Just leaves the players wondering..."why?"

The type of convoluted design would later be seen in the the refinement system.

 

[Eärendil]

I think it should ne possible to rent up to 7 NPCs for managing the cannons. And it should be possible to simply buy all the resources.

And we should get a boss revamp. Scalis should spawn with EVERY white net and Charybdis should drop the shadowguard-artifacts.

 

[GarthGrey]

Somewhere along the line, my post was twisted into a "I don't know how to fire cannons" post. I won't bore those folks with my own history on an orc ship. And my OP was made up to show the ridiculousness of the crafting process. It was a mock tale that probably occurred countless times with a lot of people when they first attempted the idiotic process of "crafting" the ammo from scratch. Thank you, to those that agree, congratulations to those that didn't find the negatives.

 

[Uriah Heep]

t seems unfair to blame Mesanna for content that was from two producers ago.

Anyone who ever watched Cal defer to her during the videos, or hesitate to answer a question until she nodded okay, should know who really was running the show...

 

[GarthGrey]

Anyone who ever watched Cal defer to her during the videos, or hesitate to answer a question until she nodded okay, should know who really was running the show...

And I would never blame Mesanna for anything, unless I had a good reason to. Like an email explaining how the Sea Market npcs work...so....yeah.

 

[Acid Rain]

??? Psssst --- please share your little secret with us, we promise we will not tell a soul.

Just as with the fishing quests, you only need to be on the same server as the docks. If you have a small boat moored off the docks in the safe location (where u wont get the ship teleported away, outside the mooring buoys) you can recall to that boat, move to the docks and click the quest giver to claim your rewards.

 

[Parnoc]

Just as with the fishing quests, you only need to be on the same server as the docks. If you have a small boat moored off the docks in the safe location (where u wont get the ship teleported away, outside the mooring buoys) you can recall to that boat, move to the docks and click the quest giver to claim your rewards.

I believe you're confusing the fishing quests with the pirate captain turn-in, your boat HAS to be at the sea market or i guess at the one in Tokuno to get the shackle thing for the pirate at first and then to actually turn the pirate in so you have to start it there taking the quests and finish it turning in the captain to the same NPC.

 

[Acid Rain]

If so then I stand corrected. It's been a long time since I've gone after pirates. If that's the case.... sorry, my bad.

 

[Acid Rain]

And it should be possible to simply buy all the resources.

We should also be able to buy medusa eggs, Exodus, dreadhorn, stygian dragon, and all peerless keys. Streamline the experience right?

 

[GarthGrey]

Tokuno also has the same issues with the quest npc and your boat needing to be on his server. I don't know why this was coded this way. It's manageable , but beyond annoying.

 

[GarthGrey]

We should also be able to buy medusa eggs, Exodus, dreadhorn, stygian dragon, and all peerless keys. Streamline the experience right?

Finally there it is !! Someone who thinks a ridiculous grind that needs to be be corrected is someone asking for an Easy button.

 

[Uvtha]

We should also be able to buy medusa eggs, Exodus, dreadhorn, stygian dragon, and all peerless keys. Streamline the experience right?

The simple use of cannons on a ship should not be viewed as on par with keying for a boss encounter. It's just working the ****ing boat.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

The rewards from merchant ships is worth it though. They carry a lot of stuff.

I agree crafting the shot is a PITA, but buy it from other players may be the solution? Create a market for it and crafters can make it, people that like to fight can pay for it, and they can sell the loot they get off the merchant ships to profit. It creates content for crafters, but the real problem is the lack of players and the lack of community in the game. Everyone has access to do it all themselves so they don't rely on other players. It removes the community aspect and adds time to the player.

 

[Lythos-]

We should also be able to buy medusa eggs, Exodus, dreadhorn, stygian dragon, and all peerless keys. Streamline the experience right?

That's actually brilliant if you think about it. If there were an npc that charged a ridiculous amount of gold it would make a decent gold sink.

 

[Acid Rain]

.. someone asking for an Easy button.

I just call it the way I see it. Seems like you knew what you were looking for all along.

I think it should ne possible to rent up to 7 NPCs for managing the cannons. And it should be possible to simply buy all the resources.

There are no encounters in the game where you can just buy the needed components.

The simple use of cannons on a ship should not be viewed as on par with keying for a boss encounter. It's just working the ****ing boat.

I would indeed consider pirating on par with other encounters, except for the loots. Tweaking the loots some(adding Granite types for example or maybe throw in a random ancient SOS) as others have suggested would be nice considering the hassle it is to make materials. Working the boat is a major part of the encounter.

That's actually brilliant if you think about it. If there were an npc that charged a ridiculous amount of gold it would make a decent gold sink.

*Looks around for that elusive Easy Button*

EDIT: To attribute comments more clearly.

 

[GarthGrey]

There are no encounters in the game where you can just buy all the needed components. I just call it the way I see it.
Seems like you knew what you were looking for all along.

Please go back to my original post and show me where I asked to be able to purchase all of the needed components. Also please re-read the title of my post.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

I remember reading they were going to make the entire cannon process easier. Haven't seen it yet. Must still be on their list

 

[Eärendil]

We should also be able to buy medusa eggs, Exodus, dreadhorn, stygian dragon, and all peerless keys. Streamline the experience right?

Boy, I am farming that stuff all the time. We are talking about High Seas. I am not talking about peerless keys, which are fine the way they are.

 

[Eärendil]

I just call it the way I see it. Seems like you knew what you were looking for all along.



There are no encounters in the game where you can just buy the needed components.



I would indeed consider pirating on par with other encounters, except for the loots. Tweaking the loots some(adding Granite types for example or maybe throw in a random ancient SOS) as others have suggested would be nice considering the hassle it is to make materials. Working the boat is a major part of the encounter.



*Looks around for that elusive Easy Button*

EDIT: To attribute comments more clearly.

Please read exactly what I wrote. I wasn't talking about keys for encounters which should be purchasable.

 

[Fridgster]

Totally agree with OP. I've only upgraded one of my accounts to HS simply because the grind for just about anything related to it does not seem really worth it.

 

[Tina Small]

I used to really enjoy hunting down merchant ships. Wasn't crazy about the resource gathering and crafting process, but I managed to muddle through it. It was always nice to get a decent haul at the end as a reward for all the work of mining and crafting. However, it seems like a year or two ago the tracking command became almost completely unreliable. I'd be lucky to find one merchant ship and after that the command would just stop working at all, even after completely logging out and back in again or even after rebooting and starting UO again. Couldn't get it to work even when sitting next to a pirate ship or player ships, let alone use it to find merchant ships. After many hours of sailing up, down, and across in areas where they usually were at least a couple of merchant ships, I gave up. Don't know if the dev team muddled with the command , decreased the spawn rate for merchant ships, or what happened. Just chalked it up as another experience, like treasure hunting, that seems like someone tweaked it to make the "rewards" from doing it more rare/more of a grind.

And for whatever it's worth, I don't use UOA and haven't figured out a CC macro for firing cannons. I also can't figure out how to work two cannons at once. Seems like if my character is standing just close enough to work one cannon, then no other cannons are within reach to be able to click on them. Oh well.

 

[Merlin]

I concur that the process of firing a cannon is one or two steps too long, as is the number of items which need to be made. Needs to be simplified.