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Suggestion I sent into Broadsword re. Skill Training

Would you support such an idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 38.5%
  • No

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • I have my own ideas (see below)

    Votes: 2 7.7%

  • Total voters
    26

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
When UO was created, skill training was intended to be a part of the game. You were meant to train skills as you play. However, the metagamers, min/maxers and power gamers took care of that in short order by finding the fastest way to max out their skills—the "journey" and T.O.S. be damned.

Not too many years later skill training became to UO what getting around the Great Firewall of China is to Chinese citizens: a right of passage and an Olympic sport. No one wants to skill grind. Everyone wants to train their characters up as fast as possible so that they can join their friends in the "end game", whether it's peerless, champ spawns, EM events, pvp, or farming to make gold or get that uber gear they simply *must* have.

I think it's time to put the whole issue of unattended skill training to bed once and for all. EVE is really the spiritual daughter of UO in the science fiction realm, and the way they handle skill training solves a lot of problems, even though I don't like the exact way they've done it.

I would suggest that at any time you can designate two characters per account as being in training. Being in training greys them out in the character selection menu. If you choose to play them, the training stops.

When you put them in training you choose the skill to train and they gain 1.0 per second up to 10; .5 per second up to 20; .1 per second up to 30; .1 per 5 seconds up to 40; .1 per 10 seconds up to 50; .1 per 20 seconds up to 60; .1 per 40 seconds up to 70; .1 per minute up to 80; .1 per 2 min up to 90; .1 per 5 min up to 100; .1 per 10 min up to 110; .1 per 20 min up to 120

Those numbers could of course be adjusted. And I accept that in game training would be faster for some characters, but the fact that you can legally do it "afk" and the fact that you can do two characters at the same time, should more than make up for that.

And then start getting serious about handing out 72 hour suspensions for afk training, and a week if illegal third party apps are used. And those suspensions should include stopping all skill training for the period of the suspension.
 
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Merus

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I would much rather skill "knowledge" be account bound. Once a character on the account on any shard had gained the skill, it should be added to the account. Skills on the account should be accessed like TC. I mean how many times should one account need to train magery?

Unfortunately, this idea would invalidate soulstones as we know them so it pretty much has no chance.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Play your skills up from zero by playing the game and stop skipping so much of the fun of UO.
That's the issue exactly. UO is a social game, and even for a new player, the fun is making new friends and playing a game with them. Most of the people even a new player will meet in Haven will be having their fun in game by doing high end pvm, or pvp'ing. Rather than having the first thing that happens to them after they join a guild is an introduction to illegal third party apps and how to use them to afk train skills, it would be great if they could spend a couple of weeks running around learning the game, knowing that at the end of that two weeks they will have a character ready to go out and have some fun with their new friends, with the possibility of contributing in a meaningful way.
 

Captn Norrington

Stratics Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I'd be ok with this, mainly because it doesn't seem to have any downside.

The people who want to train skills the normal way and fully experience the game can still do that, but the people who have already done it 2 or 3 times before can do it the easy and legal way. It would also give people a legal alternative to the cheat programs, which evens the playing field for people who choose not to use the illegal third party programs.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I'd be ok with this, mainly because it doesn't seem to have any downside.

The people who want to train skills the normal way and fully experience the game can still do that, but the people who have already done it 2 or 3 times before can do it the easy and legal way. It would also give people a legal alternative to the cheat programs, which evens the playing field for people who choose not to use the illegal third party programs.
I tend to agree with this. Personally I am always working skills.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
When UO was created, skill training was intended to be a part of the game. You were meant to train skills as you play. However, the metagamers, min/maxers and power gamers took care of that in short order by finding the fastest way to max out their skills—the "journey" and T.O.S. be damned.

Not too many years later skill training became to UO what getting around the Great Firewall of China is to Chinese citizens: a right of passage and an Olympic sport. No one wants to skill grind. Everyone wants to train their characters up as fast as possible so that they can join their friends in the "end game", whether it's peerless, champ spawns, EM events, pvp, or farming to make gold or get that uber gear they simply *must* have.

I think it's time to put the whole issue of unattended skill training to bed once and for all. EVE is really the spiritual daughter of UO in the science fiction realm, and the way they handle skill training solves a lot of problems, even though I don't like the exact way they've done it.

I would suggest that at any time you can designate two characters per account as being in training. Being in training greys them out in the character selection menu. If you choose to play them, the training stops.

When you put them in training you choose the skill to train and they gain 1.0 per second up to 10; .5 per second up to 20; .1 per second up to 30; .1 per 5 seconds up to 40; .1 per 10 seconds up to 50; .1 per 20 seconds up to 60; .1 per 40 seconds up to 70; .1 per minute up to 80; .1 per 2 min up to 90; .1 per 5 min up to 100; .1 per 10 min up to 110; .1 per 20 min up to 120

Those numbers could of course be adjusted. And I accept that in game training would be faster for some characters, but the fact that you can legally do it "afk" and the fact that you can do two characters at the same time, should more than make up for that.

And then start getting serious about handing out 72 hour suspensions for afk training, and a week if illegal third party apps are used. And those suspensions should include stopping all skill training for the period of the suspension.
I'd be for something like that. Most people playing are vets, and gaining skill is just a hassle. No vet wants to sit around whacking ogres for days to "naturally" gain skill. Honestly that's basically how I do it on siege. When I'm in "skillgain" mode, I don't play at all, I just sit afk, and have a timer going for skillgain while I read a book or something.
 
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Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
no. we have SOTs, SOAs, advanced character tokens, and mythic tokens for that. its sufficient. plus easy mode imbuing / antique legendary jewels with skills. you can already make a fully functional character anywhere from instantly, to a few hours depending on how much gold / cash you want to invest.

the question is why would a company invest time and money to De-value content they already spent time and money implementing, and resulting in less demand / profit for products that company sells?
It just wouldnt make sense at all.

i made a fully functional character in 2 hours spending only 7m on sots and soas. 120 skills, some imbued jewels. all you would need for pvm and competent for light pvp.
 
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Peekay

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
I would rather take 5 mins to 40-120 my magic resist or parry vs wait however many hours for the game to train them. The whole EVE training thing revolves around society and school/study that gets transformed into practice and experience. UO is the opposite in that you already know how to pickup and flail an item around resulting in damage towards an opponent. EVE is meant to have a much more dynamically implied process behind how your character knows what it knows, especially with New Eden's advancement into neuroscience... If this were to fly, what next? Train the quickest skill to train to 120 and convert it into 100 usable skill points applicable towards any skill of your choice?

Don't get me wrong, I love EVE. I also love UO. But it boils down to the base dynamic of the world that game exists in. In medieval eras people didn't simply learn how to perfectly do something by reading about it, they honed their skills through practice. Whereas in a future ripe with neuroscience, where your character exists primarily within a capsule that is controlled by a physical link from their body. Where nothing outside of that specific instance is done so physically but mentally via that link.

Also, I will never fly a Super or Titan on this character, however ..
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
In medieval eras people didn't simply learn how to perfectly do something by reading about it, they honed their skills through practice. Whereas in a future ripe with neuroscience, where your character exists primarily within a capsule that is controlled by a physical link from their body. Where nothing outside of that specific instance is done so physically but mentally via that link.
If you are looking for the "RP" justification, or back story, it is simply that your character has a life outside the time you are actually playing it. All that time you aren't playing it, it's still alive, doing something: gardening, cleaning, getting drunk, making babies, or in this case, training skills. ;)
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
no. we have SOTs, SOAs, advanced character tokens, and mythic tokens for that. its sufficient. plus easy mode imbuing / antique legendary jewels with skills. you can already make a fully functional character anywhere from instantly, to a few hours depending on how much gold / cash you want to invest.

the question is why would a company invest time and money to De-value content they already spent time and money implementing, and resulting in less demand / profit for products that company sells?
It just wouldnt make sense at all.

i made a fully functional character in 2 hours spending only 7m on sots and soas. 120 skills, some imbued jewels. all you would need for pvm and competent for light pvp.
Advanced and Mythic tokens would still be worthwhile. This method only trains one skill per character at a time. And if you want to train your character skills up other ways, it's still open to you. Just remember that for a new player, 7m is still a lot of gold.
 
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Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Just remember that for a new player, 7m is still a lot of gold.
broadsword isnt gearing the game towards new players and any reasoning relating to that is wasted. we're talking about vets or returning vets, or kids of vets. gold shouldnt be an issue.

if there did happen to be a "new player" they can just buy a forged metal tool off the UO store and sell it for gold if they really want easy skill gain. theyll already be spending around 75 bucks for the game, another 10 or 20 to get started should be seen as normal.

i just dont see any realistic need for anything more. but yeah its fun to talk about and theorycraft, uohall and all.
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Advanced and Mythic tokens would still be worthwhile. This method only trains one skill per character at a time. And if you want to train your skills up your character other ways, it's still open to you. Just remember that for a new player, 7m is still a lot of gold.
Yes, and not every shard shard sells 6x120 scrolls for 7 mil...and not all vets have handed down mass fortunes of platinum to their younglings..or even earned that.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes, and not every shard shard sells 6x120 scrolls for 7 mil...and not all vets have handed down mass fortunes of platinum to their younglings..or even earned that.
i wasnt talking about 120s, i was talking about soas and sots, the system the devs put in the game to aid in skill training. and if someone doesnt have a few mil, actually training a character out in the game is probably in their best interests anyway (probably make anywhere from 10 to 200m looting clean 1to2mod jewels fighting those levels)
 

Spock's Beard

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Play your skills up from zero by playing the game and stop skipping so much of the fun of UO.
No. Playing skills up "naturally" is stupid and boring and I refuse to do it. Not only do I refuse to do it, almost no one does it, and I teach anyone who needs to know how to avoid doing it. It's always been this way, it will always be this way, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it.

If people want to cop your attitude, fine. Everyone can just keep scripting and taping keys down or whatever. No skin off our nose.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
broadsword isnt gearing the game towards new players and any reasoning relating to that is wasted.
The world of online gaming isn't static. Fads come and go, and you never know what is going to happen tomorrow. Just when you think something has died out, it becomes popular again. Eliminating the notion of new players from the development equation would be foolish.

if there did happen to be a "new player" they can just buy a forged metal tool off the UO store and sell it for gold if they really want easy skill gain. theyll already be spending around 75 bucks for the game, another 10 or 20 to get started should be seen as normal.

i just dont see any realistic need for anything more. but yeah its fun to talk about and theorycraft, uohall and all.
The thing is, implementing this should be fairly simple. It shouldn't require many changes to the current server code. And it shouldn't require much in the way of new art. It would require a new module that shouldn't require any complex interaction or interfacing with the current code. All that would be required with regard to art would be some relatively simple changes to the character login screen, and perhaps some tool tips on that screen. Those tool tips might be the most complicated thing to implement, as I don't think the current character login screen for either client is set up to accommodate tool tips.

But certainly this would require a minor publish, with nowhere near the kind of effort that was required to implement the new loot tables, or imbuing or reforging.
 

Tyrath

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I have trained more than enough toons from 0-100 or 120 the hard way. I make a new toon now days I buy mythic token and then buy the pinks in game to max it out. Right or wrong it is legal and just am not going to spend hours grinding what I can accomplish in 10 minutes.
 

TimberWolf

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
what I dont understand.....and what I continually cant get my head around is....why the F do you care how someone trains their character? How does it in any way effect your life?? Short answer....it doesnt!

If you want to grind out your swordsman fighting earth eles in shame...great..congrats! I am happy for you. But if I want to stand in my house looping spell macros what difference does it make to you? As long as I am attended...that is all that matters...or should ever matter!
Maybe I am disabled....maybe I have carpel tunnel.... maybe it is just none of your damn business how I play the game I pay for.

I just cant comprehend why people get all butt hurt and whiny because not everyone plays exactly how they play. Let me break this to you....you aint the god of UO. No one gets to decide how others should or shouldnt experience their game play.
 

Tyrath

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
what I dont understand.....and what I continually cant get my head around is....why the F do you care how someone trains their character? How does it in any way effect your life?? Short answer....it doesnt!

If you want to grind out your swordsman fighting earth eles in shame...great..congrats! I am happy for you. But if I want to stand in my house looping spell macros what difference does it make to you? As long as I am attended...that is all that matters...or should ever matter!
Maybe I am disabled....maybe I have carpel tunnel.... maybe it is just none of your damn business how I play the game I pay for.

I just cant comprehend why people get all butt hurt and whiny because not everyone plays exactly how they play. Let me break this to you....you aint the god of UO. No one gets to decide how others should or shouldnt experience their game play.
Because some people really get their jollies on by believing their way is the only way and everyone should do it their way :)
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
All my warriors I trained up via dungeon fighting in the abyss. Mini champs. Would never do it another way: When you reach 120, you got TONS of essences and resources, a bunch of Tinker Leggings and ALOT other nice arties. Much more fun and much more profitable than a golem. Spellcasting skills are easy to grind, hence, macroing is a big issue here. If you ask me, crafting skills are most annoying, including imbuing.

But Spock, you inspired me for my PVM- ironman and now you say, training on monsters is stupid? I loved it. I wouldn't just want to do it for my 21 chars...
 

TimberWolf

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
All my warriors I trained up via dungeon fighting in the abyss. Mini champs. Would never do it another way: When you reach 120, you got TONS of essences and resources, a bunch of Tinker Leggings and ALOT other nice arties. Much more fun and much more profitable than a golem. Spellcasting skills are easy to grind, hence, macroing is a big issue here. If you ask me, crafting skills are most annoying, including imbuing.

But Spock, you inspired me for my PVM- ironman and now you say, training on monsters is stupid? I loved it. I wouldn't just want to do it for my 21 chars...

Well done...all mine are trained on ice ogres charmed with spell weaving.....I promise you my sampire hits the same as yours does when it is all done :)
 

DungHook

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
When UO was created, skill training was intended to be a part of the game. You were meant to train skills as you play.
Training up a new character for me is a good thing. If I work long and hard for a new tamer, mage or whatever I have something of value. I worked for it and it's mine.
 

MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I would rather see skill training quests that as a bonus give you 'skill' as part of the reward based on your existing skill level so eg:

50 skill in blacksmith - quest is go gather 1000 ingots of x type, reward on hand in is 1000 ingots one level higher + 1 skill point
80 skill in blacksmith - quest is go gather 2000 ingots of x type, reward on hand in is 2000 ingots one level higher + 2 skill points etc
90 skill in blacksmith - quest is go gather 3000 ingots of x type, reward on hand in is 3000 ingots one level higher + 3 skill points etc

for
50 skill in magery/swords/archer etc - quest is collect 200 zoogi fungus, reward is 300 zoogi fungus + 1 skill point
80 skill in magery/swords/archer etc - collect 1000 leather, reward is 1000 leather (spined) + 2 skill points etc.
90 skill in magery/swords/archer etc - collect 1000 spined leather and 500 arrows, reward is 1000 leather (horned) + 1000 arrows + 3 skill points


make skill gain rewarding in as much as you gain skill while perfoming the quests (natural skill gains as per normal), the addition of a reward for the training, and bonus skill reward points when actually doing a 'training' quest.

Each publish a 'new' bunch of quests could be added to the skill train quests offering different types of rewards so you can 'pick' what quest to do to train for the different rewards you might want. This would gradually build a nice library of quests on offer. Making the reward semi resource based means there is a need for the reward either to 'sell' on vendors, craft with, or use on your own chars. The above is just samples but rewards could involve gathering essences, leathers, stone, gems, other imbuing resources. Use what we already have in game just make it actually beneficial to train while gathering skill added skill bonuses with stuff all characters need.

I have trained magery about 25 times at least, but would hate to see the cheats of afk training put in just because ppl are bored with it. Soulstones were put in game just for the purpose of not forcing people to have to retrain. If you don't want to train use a soulstone. Making training useful and more rewarding is much more beneficial to all players both new and old.
 
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Theo_GL

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Play your skills up from zero by playing the game and stop skipping so much of the fun of UO.
Skill gain in this game is a disaster. Seriously. No one wants to play a year of gameplay to max out a skill. Most people end up powergamming the skills. Yeah, its fun maybe the first time you build a character but whether you are a vet adding new toons on a new shard or a new player trying to get into the game - skill gain is too slow.

Over the years UO has tried to make up for it by doing things like scrolls of transcendence, alacrity and other methods. All good but still only help a bit on the grind.

To make a full toon you need 120x3 skills or so and at least 100 in 3 others. It shouldn't take more than a week or two to get there or you will lose interest as a new player.

It is amazing to me how many 'vets' act like 80 year old men wishing their pain in suffering on the younger generation as a rite of passage. Its old man silly. I've played this game 13+ years. I have maxed toons on 3 diff shards on 2 accounts. I was recently working another up and its just a boring grind. The gain rate for .1 should be the gain rate for .5 or 1.0. IE gain rate should be 5 or 10x faster. Stack alacrity on top of it and I wish SoT would drop at 1-5 point increments not .1 to 1.0. They drop so infrequently anyways it would litterally take you 80-160 hours of champ spawns to accumulate 10.0 in a skill you are after. In that time I can gain that skill.

This game NEEDS new players. Any new players. If you want to attract and retain them don't make skill gain be a 6 month or year long exercise for a toon. Other leveling games are all about the 'levels'. This game is about all the things you can do once you have a functioning toon. WIth all the weapon/skill/mastery/monster escalation - you can't participate in half the game till your toon is maxed and still you are out hunting better gear.

Other games when you max level the game is over. Here when you max skill the game really begins. Only then can you pvp and adventure in the lands that drop the best gear. You can't really do Doom, Peerless, Champ Spawns etc until you are near max level. The game does NOT lose value if skill gain is amped up 5 or 10x as fast.

One happy medium might be making all skill gain in dungeons act like alacrity scrolls. So if you macro - it takes longer to gain. But if you work skill in dungeons where you are 'at risk' you gain faster. THIS would be so much better than what it is now.
 

Theo_GL

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Training up a new character for me is a good thing. If I work long and hard for a new tamer, mage or whatever I have something of value. I worked for it and it's mine.
Bravo. So what you create is a game where only people who can sit through a meaningless grind can achieve this which is a small percentage of the population. Every wonder why UO is a small population game? Things like this have caused it weed out everyone but the masochists that can grind. This game NEEDS PLAYERS - of all types. While the 5% grinders stay - the 95% leave and its a barren wasteland.

There are other things in game that can give accomplishments - not a months long grind to get max skills on a toon. This is one of the attitudes that has KILLED the game.
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Skill gain in this game is a disaster. Seriously. No one wants to play a year of gameplay to max out a skill. Most people end up powergamming the skills. Yeah, its fun maybe the first time you build a character but whether you are a vet adding new toons on a new shard or a new player trying to get into the game - skill gain is too slow.

Over the years UO has tried to make up for it by doing things like scrolls of transcendence, alacrity and other methods. All good but still only help a bit on the grind.

To make a full toon you need 120x3 skills or so and at least 100 in 3 others. It shouldn't take more than a week or two to get there or you will lose interest as a new player.

It is amazing to me how many 'vets' act like 80 year old men wishing their pain in suffering on the younger generation as a rite of passage. Its old man silly. I've played this game 13+ years. I have maxed toons on 3 diff shards on 2 accounts. I was recently working another up and its just a boring grind. The gain rate for .1 should be the gain rate for .5 or 1.0. IE gain rate should be 5 or 10x faster. Stack alacrity on top of it and I wish SoT would drop at 1-5 point increments not .1 to 1.0. They drop so infrequently anyways it would litterally take you 80-160 hours of champ spawns to accumulate 10.0 in a skill you are after. In that time I can gain that skill.

This game NEEDS new players. Any new players. If you want to attract and retain them don't make skill gain be a 6 month or year long exercise for a toon. Other leveling games are all about the 'levels'. This game is about all the things you can do once you have a functioning toon. WIth all the weapon/skill/mastery/monster escalation - you can't participate in half the game till your toon is maxed and still you are out hunting better gear.

Other games when you max level the game is over. Here when you max skill the game really begins. Only then can you pvp and adventure in the lands that drop the best gear. You can't really do Doom, Peerless, Champ Spawns etc until you are near max level. The game does NOT lose value if skill gain is amped up 5 or 10x as fast.

One happy medium might be making all skill gain in dungeons act like alacrity scrolls. So if you macro - it takes longer to gain. But if you work skill in dungeons where you are 'at risk' you gain faster. THIS would be so much better than what it is now.
Nobody needs a year to max out a skill by playing the game. I agree with many point. But that is an exaggeration. Fishing maybe. Provo, Taming. Those needed some time. With the new masteries things seem to go faster. Other skills: An hour of hunting each day and you will be legendary in all warrior skills within a couple of weeks. Spellcasters gain pretty fast too. I simply don't understand the complaints. If you ask me, the skill-system of UO is one of the best in the work of MMOs.
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would support, however, a quest system that offers 10percent-gains or something alike for fighting certain monsters or collecting certain goods or turning in a certain amount of points of something.
 

Theo_GL

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Nobody needs a year to max out a skill by playing the game. I agree with many point. But that is an exaggeration. Fishing maybe. Provo, Taming. Those needed some time. With the new masteries things seem to go faster. Other skills: An hour of hunting each day and you will be legendary in all warrior skills within a couple of weeks. Spellcasters gain pretty fast too. I simply don't understand the complaints. If you ask me, the skill-system of UO is one of the best in the work of MMOs.
Skills that absolutely suck to gain in regular gameplay : Poisoning, Taming, Fishing, Provo, Discord, Nijitsu, Cartography, Bushido, Necromancy

While a lot aren't too bad at lower levels - at high levels you need to do unnatural things to gain. Most of the Bushido skills I use in fighting are lower level so to get to 120 bush you have to sit there and double strike which I rarely use once I've maxed skill. Necromancy - fine at lower levels but wither only takes you so far.

You say hour of hunting a day you will get there in a couple weeks. I challenge you to NOT power game, start a new toon, eat a 120 swords, 120 tactics and 120 bushido skill - track how many hours of hunting until you max those 3. I think you will find it will take you alot longer than 21 hours. Trust me. You might get to 90's in 21 hours - you won't get to 120's for quite some time.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Bravo. So what you create is a game where only people who can sit through a meaningless grind can achieve this which is a small percentage of the population.
If grinding to max ability is such a game ruiner how do you and others stand to grind through all those senseless time wasting levels in other games to reach max level? Why, because of all the game experience getting there. You know, all the monsters and gameplay set up for those below max level? You figure game designers put it all in for a reason? The way you talk games should only be written with top end play available and no coding time wasted on anything else.

All that not top end part of the game is fun.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Skills that absolutely suck to gain in regular gameplay : Poisoning, Taming, Fishing, Provo, Discord, Nijitsu, Cartography, Bushido, Necromancy

While a lot aren't too bad at lower levels - at high levels you need to do unnatural things to gain. Most of the Bushido skills I use in fighting are lower level so to get to 120 bush you have to sit there and double strike which I rarely use once I've maxed skill. Necromancy - fine at lower levels but wither only takes you so far.

You say hour of hunting a day you will get there in a couple weeks. I challenge you to NOT power game, start a new toon, eat a 120 swords, 120 tactics and 120 bushido skill - track how many hours of hunting until you max those 3. I think you will find it will take you alot longer than 21 hours. Trust me. You might get to 90's in 21 hours - you won't get to 120's for quite some time.
I still have characters that I might gain .1 in a month... if I'm lucky... I got sick of the grinding.

There are also some skills you honestly can no longer train to GM or 120... without eating Pinks.

I have somewhere in the area of 20 tamers on my accounts... I've gained it by hand to 115... I have honestly never bothered to 120 it... too much work.

Mage skills a pretty easy... Provo, Discord and Begging are some of the WORST skills to train... Begging I've done to GM 3 or 4 times now... and it's tedium to the max...

Inscription is probably one of the most expensive skills to GM... not only having to get thousands of scrolls but all the reagents as well... I always tell new players that it is not a skill to grab right away wait till you have a good dexer or mage to tackle it as you'll need to be able to get gold... loads of it. Even if you craft your own scrolls getting reagents is a pain.

Most crafting skills are tedious... go gather for hours then spend hours making stuff unraveling it making it again...

Imbuing is not expensive to gain... but it's expensive to use...
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
If grinding to max ability is such a game ruiner how do you and others stand to grind through all those senseless time wasting levels in other games to reach max level? Why, because of all the game experience getting there. You know, all the monsters and gameplay set up for those below max level? You figure game designers put it all in for a reason? The way you talk games should only be written with top end play available and no coding time wasted on anything else.

All that not top end part of the game is fun.
Most leveling games consist of a series of quests to get you to the next level and then the next and so on... UO doesn't do that. And since they destroyed the best dungeon for low level characters and the one they put into Haven gets most newer players killed because the spawn is too heavy... Unless you are a vet and know where to go to find good places to hunt you'll likely be discouraged quickly and quit.
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Skills that absolutely suck to gain in regular gameplay : Poisoning, Taming, Fishing, Provo, Discord, Nijitsu, Cartography, Bushido, Necromancy

While a lot aren't too bad at lower levels - at high levels you need to do unnatural things to gain. Most of the Bushido skills I use in fighting are lower level so to get to 120 bush you have to sit there and double strike which I rarely use once I've maxed skill. Necromancy - fine at lower levels but wither only takes you so far.

You say hour of hunting a day you will get there in a couple weeks. I challenge you to NOT power game, start a new toon, eat a 120 swords, 120 tactics and 120 bushido skill - track how many hours of hunting until you max those 3. I think you will find it will take you alot longer than 21 hours. Trust me. You might get to 90's in 21 hours - you won't get to 120's for quite some time.
Ok, I must confess, Bushido I never maxed out. But Swords, Maces, Throwing, Fencing, Archery plus Ana and Tactics works in a couple of weeks with regular dungeon hunting. Absolutely no problem. Poisoning - no idea. Taming is easier now with the masteries. Fishing, Provo and Disco sucks. Necro is easy - come on... Really easy. I hate training the crafting skills, due to their costs and the work you have to to...

Well, as I said: I would like a skill-gaining questchain for all skills. Quests that fit to the lore of UO and leads you to interesting places.
 

RockoNV

Seasoned Veteran
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
There is nothing wrong with the skill gain system as it is, leave it alone. Changing this system does not improve the game.
 

TimberWolf

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
you can go from 90-120 taming using the new masteries in a weekend...hardly a grind.
Virtually Every skill has these little tricks and techniques if you just want to hit a specific number.
Or you can rp a long slow process of developing your skills gradually.....your choice.
No right way...no wrong way...just choice!
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It be nice if they would of created a new system.

I pick up a great sword and can use it.

I may want to use an axe instead with a shield and I can use that.

I decide to grab some regs and use a sword and throw a little fire while using my sword.

Hey I decide to use my hands to fight people.

I grab a knife and now I can cut you :p

I got this book with spells and can cast some magically magics and be able to use a shield to block attacks.

Instead of skills you just grab any weapon, book, regs, or liquid and you can just use it :) The endless possibilities. No training because you can use it. No need for medable armor or weapons. Anything can be used together. You can only dream......
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Something I thought of some while ago would be a new kind of soulstone, still account bound, but it would clone a skill from one character to another within the same account. Everyone would still have to train the skill once, but from there on could share it with other characters on the same account, provided they had a (Clonestone?) - maybe a clonestone fragment would have charges?
 
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