Opening Chests with Telekineses is poor form

[Lord Arm]

I would like to see some of these skills useful but why stop telek from working on chests? waste of devs time with no reason to do. I use minning, cart, magery, lockpicking, animal tame and lore. of coarse I would probably survive any trap anyway but why the heck do I need another skill to do?

 

[Merus]

Let's just remove all the traps from chests and delete the remove trap skill all together. Whole we're at it, get rid of taste id too.

Problem solved.

 

[sablestorm]

Is there something that tottally negates cooking and poisoning that I am unaware of? Because remove trap has little to no utility because of telekinesis. I'm fine with keeping telekinesis with it's current function, but give more incentive to use remove trap, like a 25-50% chance to spawn an extra special item in the chest, or reduce the chance of guardian spawn appearing.

It's absurd that a spell you can cast with JOAT or simply putting on a +15 magery ring negates 100 skill points. I also think the traps should do 10x the damage so if you want just blow the traps by opening it, you die, rather than take 50 damage.

This is something that has annoyed me from day one of remove trap's existance. I would also like to note that RT requires you to have 50 in two other skills to even work on it, or anyway it used to? I haven't worked that skill in ages, because, well, its pointless isn't it?

RT should also not unhide you. Give those skill points SOME benefit.

This is the way i'd go. I'd also suggest those with remove trap or detect hidden can avoid or lessen damage from traps such as you find at chap spawns. Maybe they can also avoid effects like the tangling vines, Navery's webs, and acid and fire pools dropped by various creatures. Basically combine the two skills for an avoidance of nasty surprises which are sprung on characters. Oh and avoiding the poisoning by tiger cub cages! That too!

 

[Eärendil]

In old Ultima 7 you neither needed lockpocking nor remove trap. You simply bought or stole a powder keg and BOOM! Opened doors, chests, everything. I remember blowing up the WBB and robbing everything! GIMME Powderkegs!

 

[Duncan Drake]

Well when i'm treasure hunting i go to the chest open the lock everything explodes my char takes about 80 dmg..... I smile .... maybe a fast heal... Then i grab the valuables and wonder...."the telekinesis spell was good for what again????"

;-)

 

[MalagAste]

Want to talk poor form they need to fix botting, multiboxing, and speed hacking first.... those are much worse forms that I can think of...

 

[Lady Storm]

In 97 I was one of a very few GM Lockpicking on shard. This made my services well needed. Being a cart and lp along with fishing and magery... was the way to go...
Do you honestly want to stop every player who wants to do a map?
Right now as it sits, any player with a pinch of cart can without mining can go do a lvl 1 map.. no need for lp, mining.
On Siege where I have a cart/lp you do need detect hidden, remove trap. on a prodo shard this would be eating up valuable points.
Sir, leave stuff alone.
Many who do the treasure maps use a mulit use character... you would be making t maps impossible for the average player. Its bad enough my gm lp now has a fair chance to fail at something for the last 18 years I NEVER failed at. This has taken some of my fun in the game as I get more frustrated when it happens.
Your just adding more wood to a blazing inferno of players reasons to quit....... stop.

 

[Uvtha]

On Siege where I have a cart/lp you do need detect hidden,

You really don't. Just blow it and take the damage. That's what literally everyone does.

Sir, leave stuff alone.

You can give remove trap a reason to exist without taking away telekinesis, though. Can and should. If you have the skill, you should be rewarded.

 

[MalagAste]

You really don't. Just blow it and take the damage. That's what literally everyone does.



You can give remove trap a reason to exist without taking away telekinesis, though. Can and should. If you have the skill, you should be rewarded.

I blow it and take the damage like the demon that I am.

 

[Uvtha]

I blow it and take the damage like the demon that I am.

I feel obliged to comment: Dirty!

 

[MalagAste]

I feel obliged to comment: Dirty!

LOL...... know where your mind is today! LOL

 

[Lady CaT]

i know this stance is not going to go over well with the community but i have to say it.
allowing people to remove traps from a treasure chest with telekinesis is poor form.
while i use it myself on my T-Hunter i have always felt that the continued allowing of this bug takes away from the game.

let me explain.
they put lockpicking into the game. you need to use lockpicking to pick open treasure chests.
they put detect hidden into the game. you need to use detect hidden to see the traps on chests.
they put remove trap skill into the game and we use a level 3 magic spell to circumvent using this skill.

what from the above is logical and follows the games flow?
definitely not allowing the use of telekinesis.

now i know a lot of you are gonna argue this and that is totally cool, but keep in mind we are missing a fundamental part of the game, we are bypassing a base skill.
we have a skill that you need 100 points into to use and no one other then RP people and old faction people have worked because it can be replaced with a spell that costs you 12gp to buy.
that is a tragedy to the game mechanics.

now, far be it for me to come in here waggling a finger at the masses and not having at least some sort of remedy, so lets move onto what could or should be done to fix this issue.
what i am going to suggest is this - and please by all means post fixes that you guys may have.
i think that telekinesis should be scaled back to only work on doors and low level chests (say level 1-2). my opinion is if you want to treasure hunt and get the loot you should have to invest the points to be able to do so.
there should be a reward for investing 100 points into this skill.

now, are they going to do the above, absolutely not.
the time to fix this bug came and went 18 years ago (hmm but they did randomize mining veins after how many years...... maybe there is hope for this bug?)
using telekinesis is so ingrained into our game play its never going to leave.
but i think they should scale it back.
if you use telekinesis they should make it so you loose 1/2 of the chests loot right off the top due to the use of 'explosive magics' or make it so Grubbers - say 5 of them - scatter with some loot when you use telekinesis.
make it so there is a benefit to having and using the remove trap skill.

we all complain that there are dead skills in the game, so i say they revamp remove trap so it is once again alive.

what about other old skills that are dead?
taste ID - why not have it so if you have this skill and cooking or alchemy the stuff you make is better or lasts longer ect ect.
item ID - why not have it so if you have this skill anything you sell you get more gold for. if you have it on a imbuer you get more relics back when you unravel. why not add a new weapon/armor attribute (like brittle/prizes/antique) that you can only decipher if you have item ID and arms lore thus adding another hidden item out on that item?

its time to bring the dead skills back i think.

I voted "who cares" as your other choices clearly show your own bias about the issue. How about "leave it in - because nothing is wrong"?

So telekinesis can lift the lid of a chest that is unlocked, big deal! It can open a door but can't open a chest cover?

I prefer your arguments about what happens to the contents if a chest doesn't have a trap removed. Then perhaps the contents should be damaged or lessened in some way if the trap triggers. Then there is a clear reward for having the remove traps skill. That makes some sense. But to say telekinesis is a "bug". I completely disagree.

 

[railshot]

Apart from consideration of templates or other skills, what use is Telekinesis spells if not for things like this? I don't understand why people would consider this an exploit or a loophole. Magery already has enough spells that no one ever uses.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Did someone just GM a new skill?

 

[Uvtha]

Apart from consideration of templates or other skills, what use is Telekinesis spells if not for things like this? I don't understand why people would consider this an exploit or a loophole. Magery already has enough spells that no one ever uses.

It used to allow you to pick stuff up from a distance, but I guess that was too exploitable. As for magery having too many do nothing spells... it also has dozens of great spells. You know what skill's abilities are 100% useless? I bet you can guess.

 

[RockoNV]

i know this stance is not going to go over well with the community but i have to say it.
allowing people to remove traps from a treasure chest with telekinesis is poor form.
while i use it myself on my T-Hunter i have always felt that the continued allowing of this bug takes away from the game.

let me explain.
they put lockpicking into the game. you need to use lockpicking to pick open treasure chests.
they put detect hidden into the game. you need to use detect hidden to see the traps on chests.
they put remove trap skill into the game and we use a level 3 magic spell to circumvent using this skill.

what from the above is logical and follows the games flow?
definitely not allowing the use of telekinesis.

now i know a lot of you are gonna argue this and that is totally cool, but keep in mind we are missing a fundamental part of the game, we are bypassing a base skill.
we have a skill that you need 100 points into to use and no one other then RP people and old faction people have worked because it can be replaced with a spell that costs you 12gp to buy.
that is a tragedy to the game mechanics.

now, far be it for me to come in here waggling a finger at the masses and not having at least some sort of remedy, so lets move onto what could or should be done to fix this issue.
what i am going to suggest is this - and please by all means post fixes that you guys may have.
i think that telekinesis should be scaled back to only work on doors and low level chests (say level 1-2). my opinion is if you want to treasure hunt and get the loot you should have to invest the points to be able to do so.
there should be a reward for investing 100 points into this skill.

now, are they going to do the above, absolutely not.
the time to fix this bug came and went 18 years ago (hmm but they did randomize mining veins after how many years...... maybe there is hope for this bug?)
using telekinesis is so ingrained into our game play its never going to leave.
but i think they should scale it back.
if you use telekinesis they should make it so you loose 1/2 of the chests loot right off the top due to the use of 'explosive magics' or make it so Grubbers - say 5 of them - scatter with some loot when you use telekinesis.
make it so there is a benefit to having and using the remove trap skill.

we all complain that there are dead skills in the game, so i say they revamp remove trap so it is once again alive.

what about other old skills that are dead?
taste ID - why not have it so if you have this skill and cooking or alchemy the stuff you make is better or lasts longer ect ect.
item ID - why not have it so if you have this skill anything you sell you get more gold for. if you have it on a imbuer you get more relics back when you unravel. why not add a new weapon/armor attribute (like brittle/prizes/antique) that you can only decipher if you have item ID and arms lore thus adding another hidden item out on that item?

its time to bring the dead skills back i think.

I respect your intent. However, why change something that is working as intended for the last 2 decades? It seems like they could use their resources efficiently doing many other things.

 

[TimberWolf]

I agree with your intent as well.....but frankly what I dont understand is why you dont just STFU and go play that way? How does it in any possible way affect your gameplay how I disarm my traps? If You think it is a broken and glitchy way to find and remove traps.....great...knock your socks off and go train the skills and have fun. I support your right 100% to play your game how you want to. Just dont try to tell me how I should play.

If you want to start a movement create a THB guild on your shard and make it a guild rule. Not like anyone pays attention to guild rules anymore anyway Then you and your three friends that actually do maps can sit around and lie to each other about what technique you use!

And yes I know this post sounds harsh....it is called sarcasm. It is an art form and comedic device.....so get over it and go disarm your traps!

 

[Uvtha]

And yes I know this post sounds harsh....it is called sarcasm. It is an art form and comedic device.....so get over it and go disarm your traps!

I'm confused, so you are FOR getting rid of telekinesis trap removal then? Because if you intended to be sarcastic, that would be the impression your post would give in that context.

 

[Zosimus]

Isn't UO's unofficial motto suppose to be "Play it your way." If you don't like it then just don't use it. If you like it then use it. I disagree with Poo but he did make a good point.

If anybody feels offended by his post .......

 

[Uvtha]

Isn't UO's unofficial motto suppose to be "Play it your way." If you don't like it then just don't use it. If you like it then use it. I disagree with Poo but he did make a good point.

If anybody feels offended by his post .......

I mean, yes, the idea that telekinesis trap removal should be just removed and nothing else changed is probably not a good one, but like I mentioned this is just part of a larger issue, that being of pointless skills. I think that point is being buried by people getting amped up at the notion of any theoretical necessity to change to their templates.

Remove trap is just I would argue the most egregious case of a useless skill, because not only can you accomplish at 0 skill with magery what you can accomplish with 100 skill in remove trap you must also invest 100 skill points in other skills to even attempt to use it, and you can't later stone those skills off or otherwise drop them, or even with GM RT, you will be unable to try to disarm the trap.

And parenthetically I would argue that TK is BETTER than remove trap and its 200 skill point requirement because TK never fails, RT can, and TK never puts you at risk while RT always does.

How anyone thinks that's not dumb is beyond me. From that point there are many avenues of attack if you wish to try and make some kind of amends to the clearly stupid situation.

 

[Zosimus]

Do I have to get another form out for you


I disagree with Poo but I also agree that TK is better. People can just play how they choose to play with out having to change all this and that. Either take the damage with a skill or take no damage with another skill.

 

[Uvtha]

Do I have to get another form out for you

Me? I'm not "butthurt", especially since I don't think that term really works in this case, but anyway...

I just think it's bad design, and I don't understand why people are ok with it. My guess would be because zero people use remove trap because doing so is not only pointless, it's a detriment to the template that chooses to employ it because it's the only skill with other skill requirements... all because of telekinesis.

I have a feeling if magery got a 3rd circle skill that could tame any animal, or applied +120 weapon skill to any held weapon... people would freak the hell out, and rightly so, because it devalues the point of having a skill system in general.

I completely understand why people don't want the current methods removed, but that's not the only issue here.

 

[TimberWolf]

I'm confused, so you are FOR getting rid of telekinesis trap removal then? Because if you intended to be sarcastic, that would be the impression your post would give in that context.

offers some vasoline for his sore tush tush

 

[Zosimus]

Me? I'm not "butthurt", especially since I don't think that term really works in this case, but anyway...

I just think it's bad design, and I don't understand why people are ok with it. My guess would be because zero people use remove trap because doing so is not only pointless, it's a detriment to the template that chooses to employ it because it's the only skill with other skill requirements... all because of telekinesis.

I have a feeling if magery got a 3rd circle skill that could tame any animal, or applied +120 weapon skill to any held weapon... people would freak the hell out, and rightly so, because it devalues the point of having a skill system in general.

I completely understand why people don't want the current methods removed, but that's not the only issue here.

LOL Did you not see the at the end. I was joking with you.

 

[Uvtha]

offers some vasoline for his sore tush tush

Feel free to explain why you see me as being "butthurt" other than the fact that the term was used in Zo's image. I'm not angry about this issue in the least, someone brought it up, and I have thought it was a poorly conceived bit of design for over a decade, so I explained why, and what I would do to remedy the situation so that a useless skill would gain use in a way that everyone would come away happy.

I responded to your post because you seemed to be displaying an attitude that was in opposition with Poo's criticism (not mine, mind you) along with earnestly (strongly worded) critical comments, and tried to explain that your harsh language was due to sarcasm. In order for it to have sarcasm you would have needed to employ irony in your mockery, which you did not. It would only have been sarcastic if you agreed with Poo, otherwise it was just an example of being brash.

For example a sarcastic statement in line with what seem to be your feelings could be something like: "Oh yes, I think it's a great idea to change a decades old game mechanic and force people to stick another 100-150 skill points into already cramped templates! Best idea of the year! "

 

[Uvtha]

LOL Did you not see the at the end. I was joking with you.

I understand you were kidding around, I just didn't get why butthurtedness was brought up, so I just wanted to clarify my position. Not at all angry about it. No worries.

 

[TimberWolf]

My point to you is the same as my point to Poo if you feel that way dont use the spell. Train the skills and use them. How I or anyone else digs and loots a chest shouldnt be of any concern to you. Nothing needs to be modified because you are perfectly capable of correcting this glitch for yourself. No dev intervention is required. You are the master of your domain if you choose to be. But not only do you feel the need to modify how others dig a map but then you presume to be the only one the comprehends the multifaceted layers that make up sarcasm. and that is why you are acting like you have a sore tush tush!

 

[Ruppy2]

It only takes me one lick to get to the center of a lolipop

 

[Uvtha]

My point to you is the same as my point to Poo if you feel that way dont use the spell. Train the skills and use them. How I or anyone else digs and loots a chest shouldnt be of any concern to you. Nothing needs to be modified because you are perfectly capable of correcting this glitch for yourself. No dev intervention is required. You are the master of your domain if you choose to be. But not only do you feel the need to modify how others dig a map but then you presume to be the only one the comprehends the multifaceted layers that make up sarcasm. and that is why you are acting like you have a sore tush tush!

First of all, I guess you didn't actually read anything I've posted here. I never called it a glitch. I have said like literally 8 times in this thread that I don't want to change telekinesis method of opening chests, but only to alter Remove Trap, so that the skill has some value.

Nothing needs to be modified. That is correct. Nothing ever needs to be modified. There are just some things that all of use like or dislike about different aspects of the game what we would wish to see changed. This is no different, (and yet again, I don't agree with the original post that telekinesis must be removed) than any other change someone wants. Honestly though, I think everyone probably agrees that ideally all skills should be worth using.

As for sarcasm, I think you simply misunderstand the definition of the word. Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or insult. I don't think what you posted could be considered ironic, even if you were really stretching the meaning as you said exactly what you feel, which is the opposite of irony in the context of what someone said and intended to mean.

And still, I don't understand the "butthurt" nonsense. I'm not mad. There has been no slight to me real or imagined. You seem much more "butthurt" than I do, with the tone of your previous post especially with the comment "STFU and go play that way" , all of which was just in response to someones simple opinion, which is hardly a call for such a harsh reaction. It's all a bit ironic, ironically.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Isn't UO's unofficial motto suppose to be "Play it your way." If you don't like it then just don't use it. If you like it then use it. I disagree with Poo but he did make a good point.

If anybody feels offended by his post .......

There's an updated version

 

[Lord Trollo]

 

[Poo]

work was busy this week so i didnt swing in until now.
topic really took off, eh? (ya ya ya, im Canadian, i know!)

the replies went about how i expected them too.
most people just want their templates left alone, which is understandable.
its just my OCD screaming at me that its wrong.

that said my T hunter that i have on every shard uses tele as well, just so ya all know.
i am in the middle of converting my old Faction Trap Removal guys over to pure template T hunter just because i already had the GM remove trap on them - which is what sparked me to bring this up.

well, we can hope that the Dev's did a read of this topic, saw the interest from the people to have some of the old dead skills resuscitated and maybe they discussed it over a coffee break?

 

[BrianFreud]

This spell essentially exists specifically for this use. Find other good uses for the skill, but don't nerf mages to do it.