Warrior Challenge (Aug 2014): Dreadhorn

[BeaIank]

If you don't have a bard running provo to compensate the stat loss from his debuf and curses, keep yourself a nice 100% reforged hatched with DI, max HML, 50 HSL and whatever else you can fit on it (maybe hit lower attack) and switch to it when he uses his -20 stat debuff.
When it is over, go back to your normal double axe.

Also, make use of the swords mastery if you can while hitting him with double strike.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If you don't have a bard running provo to compensate the stat loss from his debuf and curses, keep yourself a nice 100% reforged hatched with DI, max HML, 50 HSL and whatever else you can fit on it (maybe hit lower attack) and switch to it when he uses his -20 stat debuff.
When it is over, go back to your normal double axe.

Also, make use of the swords mastery if you can while hitting him with double strike.

If you Imbue Balanced on to it you can drink Greater Agility potions to compensate.

 

[BeaIank]

If you Imbue Balanced on to it you can drink Greater Agility potions to compensate.

Since he doesn't have parry, he could imbue balanced on his double axe in order to be able to drink potions, yes.
I am not sure I would imbue 30 SSI on it, as it hurts HML, and you can get 25 SSI out of jewels and the town buff. Maybe 15 or 20 would be enough. Maybe even go without it if you are using tinker legs.

 

[CorwinXX]

Hit Mana Drain helps against Dreadhorn very well.
When you need to drink a potion switch to 1h sword (you can also switch to EP rings).
You can use STR/DEX potions to compensate its courses.
2nd level swordsmanship mastery would help.

 

[Tabin]

Thanks for the tip guys! I somehow forgot I could switch to a 1h weapon to drink. That seems way faster and safer than my dequip, wait 1 second, drink macro.

For my weapon, I went with SSI because my gear initially had 0 SSI. It's extremely hard to fit HCI, DCI, SSI and DI in a ring. I usually have to give up something. I like to run max damage so I choose the 2-h axe which requires an upkeep of both 180 stamina and 35% SSI to get 1.25 sec swings. I think I will find a good ring/bracelet with 5% SSI and then divine fury to get the other 15%, that should counter part of the curse.

I could afford a 2nd lvl sword mastery. Thought I needed lvl 3, but I'll try out lvl 2.

What bushido skills do you guys suggest I use? Last run, I didn't use any. At 80 bushido and 180 stam, I have 0% chance to block so counter attack is useless right?

 

[BeaIank]

Counter attack is useless without parry, and you aren't running parry on your temp.
But since Dreadhorn is fey slayer, and there is zero good fey slayer dexxer weapons, you need bushido to reach max damage multiplier against him.

Edit: Also, his curse gives -20 stats. It never gives you -20 SSI. I fight him every weekend and I never suffered a SSI debuff against him, only stats debuff.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Has anyone tried it with the Defiler, Wraith Form and Curse Weapon?

 

[CorwinXX]

Has anyone tried it with the Defiler, Wraith Form and Curse Weapon?

Defiler does too low damage. It's better to use Two Handed Axe. (Also Corpse Skin and Onslought).

 

[Tabin]

If anyone wants to post a video of them soloing dreadhorn with one character, I'd super appreciate it. Been testing out different builds like lumberjacking vs. parry and different weapons like balance vs HLA on test center. Still dying 50% of the time. I get unlucky, wiff once or twice (lose perfection or get mana drained) and then dreadhorn does this crazy 3 hit combo on me.

 

[CorwinXX]

balance vs HLA

Hit Mana Drain is better if you don't use Wraith Form.
Hit Mana Drain > Hit Fatique > HLA > balance

umberjacking vs. parry

I prefer lumberjacking... but if you dye then use parry... and don't forget about evasion

 

[Tabin]

Hit Mana Drain is better if you don't use Wraith Form.
Hit Mana Drain > Hit Fatique > HLA > balance


I prefer lumberjacking... but if you dye then use parry... and don't forget about evasion

CorwinXX, thank you so much for your help! I initially thought I could go without mana drain on my weapon but I took your advice and started making a new one. I got lucky and on my 2nd reforge and I got a clean 40 hit fatigue 50 hit mana drain double axe. Decided to keep it and imbue HML HSL and 30 DI. It worked like a charm! Just had to keep divine fury up and get some SSI on my rings/bracelet to maintain the 1.25sec swing speed. Switched to a balanced double axe to drink pots and ate enchanted apples whenever i got a few debuffs.

Just killed two dreadhorns without any real scary moments (other than the first 2-3 minutues). On the 2nd dreadhorn, I killed it with 3min left on the entrance potion! PS I did keep lumberjacking.

 

[CorwinXX]

You also can use Wraith Form. In this case you needn't Hit Mana Drain on your weapon.

There are some ways to increase your damage against Dreadhorn:
- Copse Skin
- Discordance
- Onslaught
- Lumberjacking
- Two-Handed Axe (instead of Double Axe)

Here is Lumberjacking + Onslaught:


For fast Dreadhorn I'd tried:
120 sword
120 tactics
120 anatomy
60 necro
60 ss
90 chivalry
80 bushido
100 lumberjacking
100% Fire Damage Two-Handed Axe: HML, HSL, SSI, DI, Hit Fireball
It should take less than 4 minutes.

 

[Tabin]

Did peerless bosses get buffed really recently? According to Bear Corpse's comment, they did. But I dont see the official statement anywhere.

Here's his original post on his youtube video.
"ML peerless bosses buffed at pub90. They have now 130 wrestling."

 

[CorwinXX]

Why that Shimmiring has 20k hp only? I was sure it has 50k hp.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

When i was testing the Mastery abilities on TC, particularly "Stagger", i fought Dreadhorn with a Macing Whammy. Dreadhorn is absolutely no threat whatsoever with Stagger on him, especially once you damage his Stamina down to 0% with innate Stam damage from Macing Weps. Same goes for Chief Paroxysmus.

 

[BeaIank]

Stagger works wonders against Dreadhorn.
And if you're in for a bit of group fun, get along with another swords dexxer (better if both of you have healing for xhealing) with level 3 mastery and watch the bloody thing go down ridiculously fast as both of you spam 3 double strike is a row followed by stagger and onslaught.

 

[BearCorpse]

*Swords120 Tac120 Anat120 Bushi120 Parry60 Lj100 Chivalry115
Two-handed Axe HLL87% HML87% HSL50% Hit Fatigue50% Hit Mana Drain40%
Trained Lesser Hiryu

Healing source is only HLL 87%.
High chivalry for EoO damage bonus, it helps good with low perfection bonus.I can't keep perfection 100% for ML bosses buffed their wrestling.

solo 3:56(first swing to die)

solo? 2:30(first swing to die)
These 2 Squirtles are born from Mature Dragon Turtle Egg.

*Sorry,Swordsmanship often called SS in Japan.

 

[Mikeltin5]

SS120 Tac120 Anat120 Bushi120 Parry60 Lj100 Chivalry115
Two-handed Axe HLL87% HML87% HSL50% Hit Fatigue50% Hit Mana Drain40%
Trained Lesser Hiryu

Couple questions regarding the temp. I see Lumberjack, but with Honor, EoO and 100 DI are you not already at 300% cap and therefore 100 LJ wouldn't be of any benefit? Also, I based my 120 Chiv as the foundation of my build for the DF with 20k+ karma. Otherwise I would imagine running a lot less for EoO and sacred journey. Having 115 Chiv and not using DF doesn't make sense to me. Finally, how does the 120 SS play into this temp? I understand it's not quite a samp since it doesn't have necro, but you're doing much greater damage then my 183 AI (typical cap) so I'm trying to look into this temp a bit further.

 

[Deadly Serious]

Couple questions regarding the temp. I see Lumberjack, but with Honor, EoO and 100 DI are you not already at 300% cap and therefore 100 LJ wouldn't be of any benefit? Also, I based my 120 Chiv as the foundation of my build for the DF with 20k+ karma. Otherwise I would imagine running a lot less for EoO and sacred journey. Having 115 Chiv and not using DF doesn't make sense to me. Finally, how does the 120 SS play into this temp? I understand it's not quite a samp since it doesn't have necro, but you're doing much greater damage then my 183 AI (typical cap) so I'm trying to look into this temp a bit further.

Lumberjacking improves axe's base damage it does not account into the 300% calculations.

Having high chiv ultimately means you lessen the defense chance penalty I believe Karma is the main factor to getting the offensive benefits of Divine Fury (btw 18.5k karma i believe for max offensive stats).

120 SS improves the power and duration of Curse weapon I think with curse weapon at max power + vamp form your hits are almost or are 100% life leech.

 

[Mikeltin5]

But if you're not casting DF (which I don't recall seeing him cast) then the penalty doesn't come into play because the spell is never used. The EoO duration I would imagine is lengthened by more skill points, but not wholly worth 115 skill points. Maybe its an isolated event but seems a bit superfluous to use that many points for 1 spell.

Would 120 SS and vamp form negate the need for a 100 HLL weapon? He doesn't have necro to cast vamp embrace so is the life leech really the main factor in keeping him alive?

And, for example, we play out the 120 SS realm, if we trigger a DS for 200 points per hit (400 total per swing) according to curse weapon on UO Guide we dish ourselves 50% (so we get hit for 200). Accounting for the 80-100% life leech, I don't truly understand how a 80-100% life leech weapon is countering those 200 points to keep this template so strong.

 

[Tabin]

But if you're not casting DF (which I don't recall seeing him cast) then the penalty doesn't come into play because the spell is never used. The EoO duration I would imagine is lengthened by more skill points, but not wholly worth 115 skill points. Maybe its an isolated event but seems a bit superfluous to use that many points for 1 spell.

Would 120 SS and vamp form negate the need for a 100 HLL weapon? He doesn't have necro to cast vamp embrace so is the life leech really the main factor in keeping him alive?

And, for example, we play out the 120 SS realm, if we trigger a DS for 200 points per hit (400 total per swing) according to curse weapon on UO Guide we dish ourselves 50% (so we get hit for 200). Accounting for the 80-100% life leech, I don't truly understand how a 80-100% life leech weapon is countering those 200 points to keep this template so strong.

Yes, HLL is how he stays alive plus the HMD HF.

EoO alone is worth 120 points or how ever much Chiv you can fit. I run it and never cast DF or CW. DF isn't necessary if you are already at max DI, HCI, and SSI, which isn't hard to achieve.

SS=Swordsmanship not spirit speak btw. He isn't using curse weapon.

 

[Odin of Europa]

Couple questions regarding the temp. I see Lumberjack, but with Honor, EoO and 100 DI are you not already at 300% cap and therefore 100 LJ wouldn't be of any benefit? Also, I based my 120 Chiv as the foundation of my build for the DF with 20k+ karma. Otherwise I would imagine running a lot less for EoO and sacred journey. Having 115 Chiv and not using DF doesn't make sense to me. Finally, how does the 120 SS play into this temp? I understand it's not quite a samp since it doesn't have necro, but you're doing much greater damage then my 183 AI (typical cap) so I'm trying to look into this temp a bit further.

I thought SS meant Spirit Speak too, but I think he means SwordsmanShip this time - there's no wep skill listed.

 

[Mikeltin5]

Yes, HLL is how he stays alive plus the HMD HF.

EoO alone is worth 120 points or how ever much Chiv you can fit. I run it and never cast DF or CW. DF isn't necessary if you are already at max DI, HCI, and SSI, which isn't hard to achieve.

SS=Swordsmanship not spirit speak btw. He isn't using curse weapon.

Previous suits I've built (and my current samp) use 120 Chiv and max karma for all the buffs, allowing me to tap out nearly every stat, always swing max speed regardless of losing stam, etc. Plus I primarily use 120 parry, low DCI and counter attack so the negative DCI from DF actually helps me. I'm also able to only put 25 DI (I think it's 25) on my weapons and leave more room for imbuing up other mods...just my 2 cents of how I do it.

I always try to use a super slayer where possible so I'm already at 200% damage modifier and EoO should get me close enough to seal up the gap to 300%. Worst case scenario I get a 100% elemental weapon and chug through the painful battle.

 

[Tabin]

Previous suits I've built (and my current samp) use 120 Chiv and max karma for all the buffs, allowing me to tap out nearly every stat, always swing max speed regardless of losing stam, etc. Plus I primarily use 120 parry, low DCI and counter attack so the negative DCI from DF actually helps me. I'm also able to only put 25 DI (I think it's 25) on my weapons and leave more room for imbuing up other mods...just my 2 cents of how I do it.

I always try to use a super slayer where possible so I'm already at 200% damage modifier and EoO should get me close enough to seal up the gap to 300%. Worst case scenario I get a 100% elemental weapon and chug through the painful battle.

So you have 120 parry and 120 chiv. You said this is a sampire build so I'm assuming: Swords, Anatomy, Tactics, chiv, parry, necro, bushido.

With 120 parry and 120 chiv, how much swords and bushido do you have? Are you using +skill gear to fit all that?

 

[Mikeltin5]

recalling from memory...I'm 120 swords/chiv/bush/parry/tactics 100 necro 20 anatomy and like 30-40+anat on the suit. Only main downside I have is my cap is 183. I was attempting to minor re-vamp the suit to fit the +10 anat tali on the suit...but otherwise it works out pretty nicely

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Why does a Firehorn keep going off in those videos without Bard skills?

Why is DH not area poisoning and re-targeting the other things attacking it?

 

[BeaIank]

... Dreadhorn doesn't area poison. I only recall Chief Paroxysmus doing so.
I fight Dreadhorn pretty much every weekend, and I've only seen it switch aggro to players, almost never to pets. And those are wild turtles. I never had a wild animal there, but I think it would work the same way, specially now with the stupid new AI. That AI only targets players, not pets, and targets through honour.

Edit: Also, I see no fire horn effect in any of the videos. Only flamestrikes from the turtles on the second one.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

... Dreadhorn doesn't area poison. I only recall Chief Paroxysmus doing so.
I fight Dreadhorn pretty much every weekend, and I've only seen it switch aggro to players, almost never to pets. And those are wild turtles. I never had a wild animal there, but I think it would work the same way, specially now with the stupid new AI. That AI only targets players, not pets, and targets through honour.

Edit: Also, I see no fire horn effect in any of the videos. Only flamestrikes from the turtles on the second one.

Well the Poison is a Counter Attack to anything hitting it.

...So you could in theory send in a Stealther release 5 turtles and loot the corpse?

Firehorn sound effect keeps going off.

 

[BeaIank]

It teleports attacking players to him and poisons them, but only seldom. I always have a 4x120 bard with provo songs armed pelting him with a -20 mage bow for extra HLA while my dexxer wails at him , and he teleports that bard to him maybe two or three times per fight.
Never saw he do that with pets.

 

[Tuan]

Is there a spot you can stand on the other side of the river and still shoot/cast across. I know this works for the range check for the masteries, but it seems to not work for targeting.

 

[Tabin]

So i decided to test out the traditional sampire build (120 bushido and 60 parry) and drop LJ to see if 1) id survive better with 28% parry chance and 2) dish out good damage with counter attack.

In the entire 6min that I took to kill dreadhorn, Im pretty sure i didnt trigger a single counter attack! I didnt use hit fatigue either so it was definitely hitting me a ton. Anyone else notice that counter attack doesn't work on dreadhorn? Why is that??

In the image, you can see my CA timer going down to 2second. It went down to 0 every time. =(

I tested CA on Narvey and it works, but I'm not entirely impressed with it. It maybe triggers once every 15 seconds....sometimes it doesn't even trigger.

 

[Gorokar]

Soloed today for the first time with my pure paladin. Took ages, like 25-30 minutes and 500 bandages, my damage is low without bushido... even with 120 tactics, 120 anatomy and the damage cap. Bosses with no slayers are a pain for me. I need to keep consecreate weapon and divine fury up all the time and cannot spam AI all the time because i need a decent 100HML weapon (first AI 10 mana, next 30...) I like my template... but i think it need to be more offensive than defensive.

 

[BeaIank]

Iirc, Dreadhorn is fey slayer. The problem is that there isn't a single half decent fey slayer melêé weapon to use there, and while the devs promised to add it to imbuing in pub 90, they've failed to keep on with their word. As usual...
And they increased Dread's wrestling to 130 on pub 90 as wee, which is a practical nerf to warriors. :|

 

[Duncan Drake]

130 wrestling is ugly.... Ill try dread with my bushido pally this weekend. Lets see how it will work

 

[BeaIank]

To make matters more fun, discoed he keeps 127.8 wrestling.

 

[Tuan]

It's not just wrestling- disco only knocked everything down by 1.8 points. That hardly seems worth an investments of 240 skill points.

I wonder if the disco drops his resistances by 14, or if also by only 2 points. That is a HUGE nerf to bards, a class that I'm not sure I've seen anyone calling 'over-powered' in the first place.

 

[BeaIank]

I don't remember how much it dropped the resists. I forgot to take a picture of that.
I will do another one tonight with my tamer and check that.

 

[BeaIank]

...
Let's just say that bad is not a bad enough word to describe how bad discord works on Dreadhorn:

Normal:


Discoed:

I believe the higher strength, dexterity and intelligence in the discoed picture is due to Dreadhorn casting bless on itself. But yeah, discording Dread isn't doing pretty much anything at all.

@Kyronix Could you enlighten us on why this was done to poor bards? The test about the boss "shrugging off some of the effects of your discordance song" should be changed to "shrugging off most of the effects of your discordance song".
This... is rather pathetic. :|

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The devs really do seem to loathe bards - my favourite and 2nd most original class. Their logic is usually along the lines of "But Bard Mastery's were added once! ...So lets never do anything for them ever ever again."

 

[Kyronix]

...
Let's just say that bad is not a bad enough word to describe how bad discord works on Dreadhorn:

Normal:
View attachment 42404

Discoed:
View attachment 42405
I believe the higher strength, dexterity and intelligence in the discoed picture is due to Dreadhorn casting bless on itself. But yeah, discording Dread isn't doing pretty much anything at all.

@Kyronix Could you enlighten us on why this was done to poor bards? The test about the boss "shrugging off some of the effects of your discordance song" should be changed to "shrugging off most of the effects of your discordance song".
This... is rather pathetic. :|

This was implemented long before my time on the team, so I can't speak to the specifics of why discordance has the effect it does on that particular mob. What reduction in stats/skills are you expecting? 5%? 10%? 20%? Just curious where your expectations are.

 

[BeaIank]

This was implemented long before my time on the team, so I can't speak to the specifics of why discordance has the effect it does on that particular mob. What reduction in stats/skills are you expecting? 5%? 10%? 20%? Just curious where your expectations are.

Let's take a look on Navrey, a keyless peerless with 160 barding difficulty:
Normal:

Discorded:


She lost a flat 14% in each resist (each resist had 14 points subtracted from it), and her skills, sans poisoning were reduced by 14% (initial skill was multiplied by 0.86).
But she doesn't display the "shrugged off" message. So, for peerless bosses like Dreadhorn, Mel, Chief Paroxysmus, etc, a flat reduction of 7% in each resist and a loss of 7% on each skill (initial skill gets multiplied by 0.93) would be pretty acceptable.
So the discorded Dreadhorn would look like this:
Resists 39/54/56/63/67
Skills: 120.9/83.7/102.3/120 (posioning isn't affected by disco)/102.3/102.3/102.3

Much less than what Navrey suffered, but still worth the trouble of discording him.
As it is now, Dread, Mel, Chief Paroxysmus and so on are suffering a 1% flat reduction in resists and the initial skill is being reduced by 1% (skill multiplied by 0.99). Not a very return for your investment in bardic skills.

 

[Tuan]

I think that the proper 14% is pretty reasonable for any of the 160 bard difficulty. Afterall, you're investing 240 skill points in this thing. Think about where 240 skill points gets a warrior... 120 anat gives you 65%!!! more damage. 120 parry and you block 33% of all melee damage - even against the biggest baddest peerless.

Without anything to Provo onto DH... can a bard even solo him? A 4x 120 bard running the disco masteries and casting nonstop earth elems - how long would that take 45 minutes? an hour? 2?

 

[Kyronix]

Let's take a look on Navrey, a keyless peerless with 160 barding difficulty:
Normal:
View attachment 42406
Discorded:
View attachment 42407

She lost a flat 14% in each resist (each resist had 14 points subtracted from it), and her skills, sans poisoning were reduced by 14% (initial skill was multiplied by 0.86).
But she doesn't display the "shrugged off" message. So, for peerless bosses like Dreadhorn, Mel, Chief Paroxysmus, etc, a flat reduction of 7% in each resist and a loss of 7% on each skill (initial skill gets multiplied by 0.93) would be pretty acceptable.
So the discorded Dreadhorn would look like this:
Resists 39/54/56/63/67
Skills: 120.9/83.7/102.3/120 (posioning isn't affected by disco)/102.3/102.3/102.3

Much less than what Navrey suffered, but still worth the trouble of discording him.
As it is now, Dread, Mel, Chief Paroxysmus and so on are suffering a 1% flat reduction in resists and the initial skill is being reduced by 1% (skill multiplied by 0.99). Not a very return for your investment in bardic skills.

Thanks for the report. Will investigate further with the rest of the team to see whether this is working as intended or if any change should be made. Thanks again!

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think the info needed for this is in the notes of publish 28:

UO Herald archive! - Ultima Online Stratics

Halved Discordance debuff vs. any creature with a barding difficulty of 160.0.

• Example: a bard with 120 discord normally debuffs a creature by 28%. However, against a creature that has a barding difficulty of 160.0, the bard will debuff the creature by 14%.

 

[Duncan Drake]

14%of 130 wrestling would be 18,2.....

 

[Tabin]

Is it safe to say discord on the roof boss encounters is working properly? Great catch that DH isn't really affected by discord at the normal percentage. Sure hope that gets fixed!

 

[Duncan Drake]

Did dh today with my bushido paladin. For safety i went there with 100 resist spells (still have to train up to 120). Battle lasted longer than before, i had several misses and dh hits more often. Killed it in the end and got only crap... Well as usual hehe

 

[Tuan]

Yeah, a few weeks back it seems that ALL boss level monsters got a Buff to wrestle skill. 'coon takes me longer, Rikktor takes me longer, both by 10% or so.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I think the info needed for this is in the notes of publish 28:

UO Herald archive! - Ultima Online Stratics

I had 27% in mind for some reason, glad to see I wasn't so far off.

I've had Provoke on my main since 2001 and it gets overlooked just about every time they add anything. Not just directly for the skill itself, but in terms of hunting, the majority of new content either doesn't allow Provoke attempts, doesn't have anything near it to Provoke, or dies in 1-2 hits to any other template. Compared to what you can do with Tame/Lore, Wep/Tact, Mage/Eval for 240 points it's incredibly frustrating that they don't even acknowledge this.

I think they should remove all 'that cannot be Provoked' from the game. Or make it require 10 charges per attempt. For example Shimmering, Blackthorns Captains, even the piddley mobs in Medusa could be Provoked at first until they hit prod shards where suddenly it's deemed 'too powerful', what a joke!

 

[Petra Fyde]

I had 27% in mind for some reason, glad to see I wasn't so far off.

I've had Provoke on my main since 2001 and it gets overlooked just about every time they add anything. Not just directly for the skill itself, but in terms of hunting, the majority of new content either doesn't allow Provoke attempts, doesn't have anything near it to Provoke, or dies in 1-2 hits to any other template. Compared to what you can do with Tame/Lore, Wep/Tact, Mage/Eval for 240 points it's incredibly frustrating that they don't even acknowledge this.

I think they should remove all 'that cannot be Provoked' from the game. Or make it require 10 charges per attempt. For example Shimmering, Blackthorns Captains, even the piddley mobs in Medusa could be Provoked at first until they hit prod shards where suddenly it's deemed 'too powerful', what a joke!

Actually I use provo pretty extensively. In guild hunts I run both provo masteries in support of the 'team'. In shadowguard roof I provo the things the bosses summon onto each other, getting them off my team mates. In the armory I use provo, disco and evs to solo the room. I also often use provo to direct my EVs where I want them to go instead of letting them roam at will.