(PVP) Holy Fist...

[virem]

..is the dumbest addition to this game since original bestial suits and absolutely needs to be nerfed.

Some points;

The spell does 45-48 damage at mindblast speed, that's insane. So a character with 120 chiv and combat skill (and nothing else) can basically cast PURE mage flamestrikes .75 seconds faster than a pure mage.

The spell can't be interrupted (LOLOL?)

The spell has INSTANT damage, which is ridiculous for the damage amount. Almost no other spell in the game has instant damage like it does (harm, hail storm, nether cyclone).

You can cast holy light with the holy fist cursor up.

I honestly think the spell should be gutted, it has no place in PVP.

 

[ysolt]

..is the dumbest addition to this game since original bestial suits and absolutely needs to be nerfed.

Some points;

The spell does 45-48 damage at mindblast speed, that's insane. So a character with 120 chiv and combat skill (and nothing else) can basically cast PURE mage flamestrikes .75 seconds faster than a pure mage.

The spell can't be interrupted (LOLOL?)

The spell has INSTANT damage, which is ridiculous for the damage amount. Almost no other spell in the game has instant damage like it does (harm, hail storm, nether cyclone).

You can cast holy light with the holy fist cursor up.

I honestly think the spell should be gutted, it has no place in PVP.

Well that suck's,that kinda remind's me of the day's when bushido or spellweave were introduced.Two hit killed Via perfection(using archery),Precaste FS,then WOD,lol.

 

[CovenantX]

on TC you used to be able to cast Holy Fist while moving like holy light, divine fury, consecrate- etc...
I swear it also had a slight delay like flamestrike/ebolt. the damage was less than impressive, (about 12-15), but then again I used it with neutral karma.
If it really can't be interrupted, it definitely needs a nerf though.

Remove CF/Nox immunity too while you're at it Devs, make pvp more skill-based! (player skill*)

 

[kaio]

Deathstrikers with holy fist is the new orange.
It is kinda fun to watch them, first they DS you, then they swap weapon to a spellbook..
But ya dont nerf them yet, wait till the whole pvp community have trained 120 chiv...then nerf it

 

[Promathia]

To say it needs to be completely removed is kinda laughable. It just needs to be tuned a bit.

Options:
1. Nerf the damage output in PvP (But if you nerf the damage, I would also increase the time on the debuff. Perhaps also increase the resource cost)
2. Make it so its not effected by 4/6 casting (I only assume it can go to 4/6 since its Chivalry, but perhaps because its a mastery it should only be 2/6)
3. Make it able to be interrupted

First it was too weak, now its too strong. No one said it was easy to balance in MMOs.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Chiv Dexers were nerfed totally, they were chars UNABLE to kill anybody, just pure defense but useless after getting dmounted.

Now they have an offence , after ONE DAY that some of the biggest BUG abusers in game got totally rekt, here is a CRY ME A VIREM action.

Funny tbh.

Anyway , the spell can just be interrupted if you want to adjust it

The dmg is good 35 , it has no sense to nerf the dmg .

Make it interruptable if you want to do something.

At last CHIV dexers can do dmg , and anyway you need GIMP jewels , gimp armour etc, it's not easy to make this char.

But first of all we need a BUG curse fix , these kids run around and they cannot be cursed unless one ENEMY does cleansing wind or remove curse on them during the fight!!!! how stupid is that??

What I don't understand too... ppl crying after literally ONE day of getting rekt , without even studying how to counter attack a char.... they just cry. Then they come here and cry but they use bugs in order to win fights and having unfair advantages. Then they go on UO HALL but they promote holy fist on the market .

What the hell is this?

 

[PwnySlaystation]

Address the holy fist spammers in your guild maybe Virem? Lead by example?? Looool

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Curse bug themselves lol but they get rekt and cry after one day. Priceless


InfernO will come to get you

 

[Santos]

Selling Chiv VOL III on ATL...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Lol


InfernO will come to get you

 

[JDGTR]

Looks like a lot of nerfing & adjustments coming up next patch lol.

Pls fix the faction horse xfer issue pls!!!!

 

[Kei]

just make it interruptable and it will be balanced.

 

[Lythos-]

It is extreme. Especially when theoretically a character could nerve strike with an orc brute, cast this spell and super nova for a 1 hit kill with little to no chance at survival.

That being said, I do like the fact Chivalry has 1 decent offensive spell and since i know the full damage value I can think of some really unique and solid pvm templates.

My suggestions in pvp would be:
-Implement the FC rule for starters. If a character has over 70 in any other casting spell then Chivalry is capped at FC2. (I thought it was FC3 but uoguide says 2). At FC2 you should be able to interrupt this.
- A hardcap of 20-28 in pvp still making it useful but not so op
-Add SDI to the mix as well as karma.

In general I would like to see the ability to switch elemental damage for this like the bard masteries. I'm sure it wasn't tested so I'm not sure if this is already available but I'd like to see slayer books and weapon vulnerability as well.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

The spell is not so op, u make 35 dmg tops without curse. These kids were crying because 3 ppl were casting it at the same time sync dropping. It's like three mages holding explos . Just mage the spell interruptable. End of story


InfernO will come to get you

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Chiv dexers were trash for years. Now they can do 35 dmg. And also ppl have refined suits with 80 energy. Dmg is like 22 lol.... They cannot even be cursed. Just a bunch of crybabies


InfernO will come to get you

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Lol, i tested this back in August, and saw it's potential for PvP. Skill Mastery Testing

"Holy Fist" with 100 Chivalry, 120 Wep Skill, and 26k Karma, did 123 damage to a Lich Lord. With 120 Chivalry, 120 Wep Skill and 26k Karma, it did 190 damage to the same Lich Lord. With 100 Chivalry, 120 Wep Skill, and 26k Karma, Holy Fist did 19-20 damage to a player with 75 Energy Resist. With 120 Chivalry, 120 Wep Skill, and 26k Karma, Holy Fist did 29-30 damage to the same player with 75 Energy Resist.
It is affected by FC/FCR and has no cooldown, but is Mana intensive, with a base Mana cost of 40 (affected by LMC). Casting Holy Fist is not interrupted by damage. Holy Fist does not deal extra damage to players in Necro Forms. A 100% Spell Reflection Pool was completely consumed reflecting a single 120 Chiv Holy Fist, although the reflected Holy Fist did no damage to the aggressor.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

exploit using pvp'rs crying is funny.

NERRRRFFF... OMG what a travesty....

 

[cazador]

I mean I tested holy fist on a max karma level 3 120 chiv toon. Far from "OP"..but it is strong but you do have to sacrifice to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[I Actually PVP]

Ah lobbying at it's finest.

Virem's mostly mage guild: holy fist is gamebreaking, no mention of curse bug, doesn't mention he has people in his guild playing the holy fist temp.

Blazing's mostly dexxer guild: holy fist is fine, curse bug is gamebreaking, doesn't mention that his guild is also abusing the curse bug.

Now, as an independent party:

The curse bug is stupid, should be fixed today.

Holy Fist's damage output should be capped at 35 but it's casting should be capped at 2 so it can be disrupted, and it should have a longer cooldown.

The end.

 

[virem]

I don't understand why we are talking about the curse bug in this thread. Of course it should be fixed, make a new thread.

I am not a fan of hard caps on damage... The spell should do 20-30 damage on a cursed target (like a non focused Mage energy bolt) if it remains at its current speed.

 

[virem11]

Address the holy fist spammers in your guild maybe Virem? Lead by example?? Looool

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Take a look at this thread where you cry about wakizashis after getting owned and having multiple people in your guild use them as well, take your own advice? LOL
Please Nurf Wakizashi's in PVP

 

[virem]

The fake me has a valid point...

 

[Captn Norrington]

The fake me has a valid point...

There are actually two. I saw them pop up on the "new members" list a couple days ago. There is "Virem11" and "Virem111". I guess whoever it is wanted a backup lol.

 

[virem11]

There are actually two. I saw them pop up on the "new members" list a couple days ago. There is "Virem11" and "Virem111". I guess whoever it is wanted a backup lol.

You guys just have a horrible sign up process, I was wondering why I wasn't getting a confirmation email after signing up, so I just made a new virem and noticed I don't get a confirmation email , i have to get approved by an admin and then moderators have to approve my posts before they go through?

 

[Captn Norrington]

You guys just have a horrible sign up process, I was wondering why I wasn't getting a confirmation email after signing up, so I just made a new virem and noticed I don't get a confirmation email , i have to get approved by an admin and then moderators have to approve my posts before they go through?

That's actually a glitch, for some reason all new accounts posts have been going into our spam filter where they need someone to approve or delete them. We are trying to figure out how to stop that. I'm the one that's been approving your posts so I know what you mean. It's annoying from the moderator side too

 

[virem]

@Captn Norrington can you remove all this banner nonsense from my thread? thanks

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

@Captn Norrington can you remove all this banner nonsense from my thread? thanks

At least your thread didn't get locked ...la

 

[Captn Norrington]

@Captn Norrington can you remove all this banner nonsense from my thread? thanks

Ok, all the banner posts have been moved to their own thread.

 

[randy]

Virem is spot on it's a word of death for bad players. Needs a nerf damage should be cut in half. The people who are for it still lose with it in zergs.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Three mages hold an energy bolt or a Flamestrike and deal dmg. Three chiv dexers hold holy fist and do the same. It's OP!!!! Illogical ppl


InfernO will come to get you

 

[King Greg]

I like the fact that chiv toons have the option to prep a spell/sling a spell at range. The damage should be at least comparable to an e Bolt. Casting it at mindblast speed with 4/6 Should be fine. have to invest an extra 240 Points to hit that. Also Can't run pure chiv and curse a target. Needs to be able to interrupt.

 

[I Actually PVP]

Three mages hold an energy bolt or a Flamestrike and deal dmg. Three chiv dexers hold holy fist and do the same. It's OP!!!! Illogical ppl


InfernO will come to get you

When three mages hold an energy bolt or a flamestrike they can't do anything but run while holding the spell, not the case with Holy Fist...

In addition, energy bolt is only effective if the target is cursed.

Holy Fist is currently an Armor Ignore that can't be dodged, can be held, and can barely be interrupted. Combine that with the nerve striking, evade, and nova pots and it's just stupid.

It's no coincidence that the sub-par mages and archers in your guild are all now playing this temp...

 

[JDGTR]

When three mages hold an energy bolt or a flamestrike they can't do anything but run while holding the spell, not the case with Holy Fist...

In addition, energy bolt is only effective if the target is cursed.

Holy Fist is currently an Armor Ignore that can't be dodged, can be held, and can barely be interrupted. Combine that with the nerve striking, evade, and nova pots and it's just stupid.

It's no coincidence that the sub-par mages and archers in your guild are all now playing this temp...

@Kiss Of Death
Omg, Italian stalliOn, you just became sub par lololol

 

[PaithanTheElf]

What is the update on this? Leaving the insane damage/casting time but making it interruptable? Holy fist is very overpowered. Able to make someone with low resist walk when hit. Instant damage. 48 damage when cursed. A mage would need an inscribe flamestrike to imitate that damage (That is 120 mage, 120 eval, 100 scribe)= 340 skill points and a longer, disruptable cast. Yeah, sounds fair.

Chiv spells ALL need to be slowed down. At 4 fc, you can't even harm spam a person casting close wounds. Cleanse by fire is practically instant and so is remove curse. All of these are ridiculous.

A necro can take the time to cast strangle, corpes, curse, oath, omen. And a chiv char could remove all of those instanty- again with less skill points involved.

Chiv should be like necro and tied to another skill. For pvp, every skill should be capped at 2 fc including spellweaving.

 

[OREOGL]

What is the update on this? Leaving the insane damage/casting time but making it interruptable? Holy fist is very overpowered. Able to make someone with low resist walk when hit. Instant damage. 48 damage when cursed. A mage would need an inscribe flamestrike to imitate that damage (That is 120 mage, 120 eval, 100 scribe)= 340 skill points and a longer, disruptable cast. Yeah, sounds fair.

Chiv spells ALL need to be slowed down. At 4 fc, you can't even harm spam a person casting close wounds. Cleanse by fire is practically instant and so is remove curse. All of these are ridiculous.

A necro can take the time to cast strangle, corpes, curse, oath, omen. And a chiv char could remove all of those instanty- again with less skill points involved.

Chiv should be like necro and tied to another skill. For pvp, every skill should be capped at 2 fc including spellweaving.

I never understood why chivalry was left at 4/6.

But pretty much a lot of templates are just curse and continuous holy fist spam at 48 points+ a hit with curse.

Pretty ridiculous for no skill consumption.

 

[virem]

Making it interruptible is not enough. The damage is still way out of line when casting time is compared to other mage spells.

When people make characters who ONLY curse and cast Holy Fist, there's obviously something wrong.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I agree. If they want a high damage spell. It should look something like an FS time to cast and be interruptable. Damage should be adjusted down and SDI should also be required to get max amount of damage.

Remove curse needs to be slowed down and how about maybe only remove one curse at a time?

Do any devs actually answer these questions on here?

 

[Bleak]

This bug will be addressed in the next publish. The damage of Holy Fist will be capped at 35 in PvP and can be interrupted. Any other balance issues you see with the spell can be discussed here and we will take that feedback under consideration if there is consensus.

 

[Lythos-]

This bug will be addressed in the next publish. The damage of Holy Fist will be capped at 35 in PvP and can be interrupted. Any other balance issues you see with the spell can be discussed here and we will take that feedback under consideration if there is consensus.

That sounds very reasonable. Can you make it so you can switch elemental damage like the bard spells?

 

[IceCast]

This bug will be addressed in the next publish. The damage of Holy Fist will be capped at 35 in PvP and can be interrupted. Any other balance issues you see with the spell can be discussed here and we will take that feedback under consideration if there is consensus.

Are you for real? Seriously, restrict it at 35? chivalry has been useless every since its not possible to toggle specials while casting, you`ve implemented a function for enemy of one in PvP which is currently broken, now finally chivalry has become semi-useful again, and you completely nerve it? 35 is way to low, you cannot just make a spell totally useless, making it interruptible i totally understand, but lowering the damage to 35? thats just silly, dont forget u need 32.000 karma ( which is a pain to achieve) 120 REAL Swords and 120 REAL Chivalry.

Deathstrike damage is capped at 50.

I plea for no cap, see how just making in interruptible effect PvP.

We have flamestrikes doing 55+ with spell focus sash.

If you want to cap it, cap it at 40 - 45, there is no reason for chivalry to become completely useless again.


And most important, holy fist is already capped at 35 - 36, it is ONLY when someone curses the target that such damage occurs, when someone hits a moving shot with a HEAVY crossbow it does 40 + hit spells potentially 60 dmg per hit @ 2.0 seconds
when u hit with a composite bow after curse the normal hits do 32 - 35 not counting hit spells @ 1.25 seconds WHILE RUNNING.. this doesnt get nerved either.

There are to many factors that affect this spell in order to give it a straight 35 damage nerve.

 

[Lythos-]

Chiv spells ALL need to be slowed down. At 4 fc, you can't even harm spam a person casting close wounds. Cleanse by fire is practically instant and so is remove curse. All of these are ridiculous.

A necro can take the time to cast strangle, corpes, curse, oath, omen. And a chiv char could remove all of those instanty- again with less skill points involved.

Chiv should be like necro and tied to another skill. For pvp, every skill should be capped at 2 fc including spellweaving.

The defensive side to Chiv is fine. Chiv is tied to positive karma. Necro is as well but by the time you finish training necro you're at the bottom karma, where a paladin in pvp has to constantly work karma. Dropping too low results in failed cures and a lesser heal.

For the record, ALL masteries can be cast at 4/6. It's not something unique to this one.

 

[I Actually PVP]

Are you for real? Seriously, restrict it at 35?

I plea for no cap, see how just making in interruptible effect PvP.

We have flamestrikes doing 55+ with spell focus sash.

If you want to cap it, cap it at 40 - 45.

Lmao I guarantee this position is only held by Icecast and Blazing.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Holy fist needs to be interruptable and I think it should be capped at 40 honestly

 

[DJ Diddles]

This bug will be addressed in the next publish. The damage of Holy Fist will be capped at 35 in PvP and can be interrupted. Any other balance issues you see with the spell can be discussed here and we will take that feedback under consideration if there is consensus.

35 is too low, unquestionably. I think you should reconsider this, or consider increasing the spell's cast time and adjusting the damage accordingly. 35 damage caps are pretty brutal now that everyone has 150 HP. The current cap of ~48 is too high, but a ~28% damage nerf is unnecessary. I also hate this development cop out of spells/abilities effectively ignoring a player's curse status.

I suggest you do one or a combination of the following:

1. Decrease damage from the current effective cap of ~48 to a hard cap of ~40
2. Make the spell somehow incorporate a players curse status to go over the 35 damage cap (as is, a non-cursed non-elf character, the spell hits ~33 damage, so cursing for 2 damage is not worth the 100+ skillpoints it would require)
3. Increase the spell cast time, and adjust the damage accordingly (as suggested previously, equivalent to a flamestrike)

All of these scenarios include the needed change of making the spell interruptable.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

The defensive side to Chiv is fine. Chiv is tied to positive karma. Necro is as well but by the time you finish training necro you're at the bottom karma, where a paladin in pvp has to constantly work karma. Dropping too low results in failed cures and a lesser heal.

For the record, ALL masteries can be cast at 4/6. It's not something unique to this one.

Tying it to karma is a joke. A chiv char will work it before fights. So that is null and void. If you think that chiv close wounds, remove curse and cleanse by fire is fair at 4/6.. you do not pvp. It is by far the most ridiculous defense in game. Try killing someone who knows what they are doing on that character one v one. Id gladly show you how stupid it is. Heck I bet you couldn't two v one. The speed is WAY, WAY too fast.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

This bug will be addressed in the next publish. The damage of Holy Fist will be capped at 35 in PvP and can be interrupted. Any other balance issues you see with the spell can be discussed here and we will take that feedback under consideration if there is consensus.

Can you expand on the cap. Will they need SDI and a target to be cursed to hit the cap? Or will they throw 35 no matter what armor?

 

[virem]

35 damage is actually too high based on the current speed of the spell... considering pure mage energy bolts do 35ish and this is still faster than that.

But... I will take what I can get.

 

[Lythos-]

Tying it to karma is a joke. A chiv char will work it before fights. So that is null and void. If you think that chiv close wounds, remove curse and cleanse by fire is fair at 4/6.. you do not pvp. It is by far the most ridiculous defense in game. Try killing someone who knows what they are doing on that character one v one. Id gladly show you how stupid it is. Heck I bet you couldn't two v one. The speed is WAY, WAY too fast.

It doesn't matter WHEN a paladin works karma it's the point that a paladin spends a lot of time just pvming to be able to use it. A necro doesn't.

I pvp. For your cleanse by fire issue let me remind you cure pots don't have a timer and can be used without investing 105-120 skill points. Both have pretty close to a 100% success chance.

The fisting is stupid in pvp, i give you that. But the point is brah, chivalry has been out since AOS and if you're just now irked about the casting speed then maybe you need to rethink your template for a more efficient way to kill them. Trying to nerf AOS skills to fit your needs makes you look weak.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

It doesn't matter WHEN a paladin works karma it's the point that a paladin spends a lot of time just pvming to be able to use it. A necro doesn't.

I pvp. For your cleanse by fire issue let me remind you cure pots don't have a timer and can be used without investing 105-120 skill points. Both have pretty close to a 100% success chance.

The fisting is stupid in pvp, i give you that. But the point is brah, chivalry has been out since AOS and if you're just now irked about the casting speed then maybe you need to rethink your template for a more efficient way to kill them. Trying to nerf AOS skills to fit your needs makes you look weak.

So a chiv char can use pots too.. what point do you have there? And I personally do invest 100 skill points to make sure it works more effectively. So you are wrong once again. Have you tried using a cure pot with no EP or Alchy vs LP? Then try chiv. I don't care that it works so well (even though magery cures it what 70% of the time and has 240 skill points invested -again making you look dumb for bringing that up)- but its the fact that it is nearly an instant cast. If you can cast something standing still while a mage is harm spamming or weaken spamming.. i think that shows it is way to fast. And just because it has not been nerfed does not mean there has not been anything wrong with it. Today is the first day I have posted about stupid mechanics on here.

If youd like to we should test it out on any character you want. I will stand still with 4/6 chiv and you try and kill me. Want to?

Edit: There is no pvming you can do for any other skill that makes it more powerful. I would def take the time if that were the case.

 

[Jazmin]

Seriously... do not nerf this spell. People with chivalry haven't had damage output in YEARS. There are way more things that need to be nerfed before holy fist..... Bleak don't be biased and listen to the few crybabies. It's not fair. If it is nerfed I am quitting UO as well as many others.