Make sure you are using 80+ dex with 45 dci and no hld to make this accurate.
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
We can't wait for the video... make sure you have a 120 parry guy holding a shield vs a 120 weapon skill guy. Make him an elf so there's no chance that you are getting a JAOT parry. Then you might need some salt to go with your crow.
I don't honestly expect to see a video, since I don't think he will post a video of him being wrong.
It'll probably end up being "my buddy didn't show up".
I just tried it on test center with my pvp archer (i took off all hci/dci/hld) and tested against a newb character with nothing but parry and spirit speak and sure enough i was parrying. You could hear the "Tink" off the shield once about every three or four shots.
I don't know who he is trying to fool but he is completely wrong.
I don't know who he is trying to fool but he is completely wrong.
@Old Vet Back Again, how's that comical video coming?
I love people that chug pots while Disarmed. I love to Mortal Strike them, then watch them **** their pants as their health drops like a rock because they can't chug when Mortaled.
I use apples.
So I got up this morning all excited to watch the video... @Old Vet Back Again
His buddy didnt show up
Which have a 20 second CD. If the person Apples, then i just Mortal again.
Rearm is ready by then.
Sorry, got so sick this weekend I had no interest in posting it.
Hmm. Looks like I am right?? You will never parry with out a shield or weapon. Taking them away makes you vulnerable and the only possibility is to miss which confirms there is some sort of base subtraction from their algorithm.
Here is what I stated and my video backs that up entirely. You cannot just slap 120 parry on a toon and expect to parry 35% without any mele weapon or shield...Read my last sentence below again...
You cannot use parry as a stand alone...So you argument is moot. You have to have the mele defense capability for it to roll. Also, a one handed weapon with parry gives you less of a chance then a shield. So I would suggest researching this more because you do not have all of the information you need to make accurate statements.
You are so flawed in everything you are stating.
If you are using a weapon and you get dis-armed Parry will never roll because you have a 100% chance of getting hit. If you have 100% of anything it will happen EVERY time.
The only way for parry to add a second roll is for your first roll to have a chance at blocking. Notice how the above states CLEARLY that you must have a Shield,1handed or 2 handed weapon. It DOES NOT state an option of "no weapon"! It also clearly states 35% with shield and only 20% with a 1 handed.
This is a blatant LIE.
Sorry, got so sick this weekend I had no interest in posting it.
Hmm. Looks like I am right?? You will never parry with out a shield or weapon. Taking them away makes you vulnerable and the only possibility is to miss which confirms there is some sort of base subtraction from their algorithm.
Here is what I stated and my video backs that up entirely. You cannot just slap 120 parry on a toon and expect to parry 35% without any mele weapon or shield...Read my last sentence below again...
"Merus said: ↑
You WILL parry if you wear a shield with 120 parry and nothing else. Put on the shield and post your video. Please!"
YOU: "No, you will MISS, not parry. There is a big Difference!"
You sir were not wearing a shield. Of course you're not parrying.
Well done, you have only made yourself look incredibly foolish.
That's incorrect. I use a Mage Weap and Hephaestus (don't have a 15 DCI reactive para shield, or I'd use that), and I've never needed Bushido to Parry. While it is true that I can't reach max SDI without a spellbook (I'll be 31% when I get the SDI town bonus), I'm ok with that. I tried Wrestle/Parry when I was on Atlantic and didn't like it too much; while mage weap/parry does have its drawbacks (i.e. being disarmed), I haven't been bothered by it too much...although disarm/archers are annoying as hell. Especially if they have a Splinter weap.
That's honestly funny as $h**! Virtually every post in this thread starting with the OP discussed parry WITH a shield. Yes, some have noted that you can still parry with a weapon and no shield, but NONE of the examples you posted about "chance to block" used those formulas... You only used the 35% parry... Which only comes with using a shield...
Like I said before "HOLD THE SHIELD AND POST THE VIDEO". You WILL parry, not just get missed as you claim.
You DO NOT have to have any melee defense to parry with a shield, ever, at all... Which you also claimed.
I started this thread to ask if I needed anatomy with parry to be more effective...I ran JUST 120 parry with a shield..no anat or wrestling and I parried a decent amount...I lowered necro/ss and added GM anat and I can tell a major difference...so thank everyone for the correct info it has helped me but to the others you will parry with just the parry skill and a shield 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love how a simple shield question gets so wacked out. I gotta tell ya I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do now lol
Last edited:
@Merus get a load of this!
The best part was "see I was right!"
Who does that?
Lol.
i know man! I love the I was sick part and then tried to switch and try telling us "I said without a shield or weapon".
The best part was "see I was right!"
Who does that?
Lol.
You are correct... It really was a simple shield question. The problem arises when people come in and make statements that are blatantly false or misleading. Posts here last a long time, and can be viewed long after the actual conversation has ended by people researching a topic.
Statements like:
You can't use parry as a stand alone skill.
Or
You must have a melee defense skill in order to parry.
Are absolutely false.
The OP clearly wanted to understand the trade off between using parry (with a shield) on a Mage as a stand alone skill vs adding wrestle or anatomy to his parry and shield. Aside from the question of if dodge factors in exactly the same as wrestle... The difference is between a 65% chance to get hit with just parry vs a 32.5% chance to get hit when you add wrestle or anat to the build.
Of course there are several other variants...
Mage weapon with 120 parry but no shield=40% chance to get hit... This saves the skill points from anat or wrestle and allows you to chug, but leaves you defenseless if you get disarmed.
Mage weapon with 120 parry and a shield=32.5% chance to get hit... This offers a higher chance to block while both are armed as well as disarmed, but you can only chug by disarming.
Old Vet seems to be arguing that with 120 parry that if you equip nothing you have 100% (technically 95% since the default 5% was added) chance to get hit... which is correct, but seems utterly irrelevant to the discussion of parry with a shield. It's like someone asking if armor refinements can exceed the 70% cap and someone arguing that you can't exceed the cap if you don't wear the armor...
Special thanks goes out to our number one contender, @Old Vet Back Again !!
Ok I don't PvP, so much of this stuff isn't really critical to me. PvM is much more casual and less critical. I'm certainly not the uber mage. Actually I play my dexxer 99% of the time. If you could break this down to Mage Defense For Dummies for me I would seriously appreciate it
I would like my mage to be decent. So is it reasonable for a mage to carry a shield? Just in general thinking it sounds like it should do something, lol. My mage has wrestling, is there any point to carry a shield or should I just stick to wrestling? I currently carry a shield for the bonuses (my shield is pretty sweet), as long as it's not hurting me to carry it I'd cart one around just for that. But I'd have to rethink this if I'd be better off with pure wrestling and leave the shield at home. He's a very low dex mage. I know the answer is above somewhere but I get confused easily So many changes and there's always such a difference in opinions I just don't have a grip on this, lol. ThxOh my other question would be would 100 parry be better than 100 wrestling? Considering my dex would be low. My head hurts
I assume with low dex the shield wouldn't do much good. Other than the stats on it, which is why I've been carrying one around
Last edited:
100 wrestle with 45 DCI gives 42% chance for a person to miss who has 120 weap skill and 45 HCI(if you have 120 wrestle in this equation its 50/50 hit miss)Ok I don't PvP, so much of this stuff isn't really critical to me. PvM is much more casual and less critical. I'm certainly not the uber mage. Actually I play my dexxer 99% of the time. If you could break this down to Mage Defense For Dummies for me I would seriously appreciate it
Oh my other question would be would 100 parry be better than 100 wrestling? Considering my dex would be low. My head hurts
Parrying instead of wrestling is not a good swap, firstly to get the max out of parry you need 80 dex, then the block chance is like this:
100 parry skill and 80 dex gives a 30% chance to block a hit
And just to underline the dex thing:
100 parry skill with 40 dex gives a 20% chance to block a hit
100 parry skill with 10 dex gives a 12% chance to block a hit
So its not like you MUST have 80, 80 is just optimum, chance stops going up after 80, starts reducing under 80.
You must be wearing a shield to parry.
Carrying a shield when you don't have parrying skill is ok for the bonuses that are on the shield like DCI etc, if you are human you also have a teeny chance to parry with it through JOAT, probably 1%, the only downside I can see with carrying a shield is if you have a spellbook in the other hand you cannot use pots without disarming the shield or spellbook first.
Edit to be clear - Carrying a shield will not have any adverse effect on your wrestling skill, you can wrestle while carrying a shield and a spellbook.
I really appreciate it. My mage is so dusty I need to pull him out and dust him off. Exactly what i was wondering about carting the shield around. I've learned about the potion problem lol. In PvM I don't usually have too many problems. I'll probably turn his template upside down once I get started lol
There are many variables for pvp with a Mage. I will try to break down a few...Ok I don't PvP, so much of this stuff isn't really critical to me. PvM is much more casual and less critical. I'm certainly not the uber mage. Actually I play my dexxer 99% of the time. If you could break this down to Mage Defense For Dummies for me I would seriously appreciate it
Oh my other question would be would 100 parry be better than 100 wrestling? Considering my dex would be low. My head hurts
Consideration: Pots
Requires a free hand... So you can carry a Mage weapon or a shield... But generally not both. If you carry both, you can chug if you get disarmed or used macros to disarm, chug and rearm.
Consideration: Opponents template
Are the majority of your opponents dexxers or mages? For dexxers you may want to skew your template more defensive, for mages more offensive.
Consideration: Defense
How much and what trade off are you willing to make for dexxer defense? This gets fairly complex, as there are multiple levels and alternatives.
First you need to understand hit chance. Virtually any dexxer out there is going with 120 skill. Their chance to miss you scales from 5% to 50% based on your "weapon" skill. I put it in quote because there are several alternatives... Mage weapon/wrestle/anatomy. I will leave it to you to check the calculator on anything less than 120 vs 120. With equal skill the chance to hit/miss is 50/50. The main trade off here is between skill (which cannot be disarmed) or a Mage weapon.
After the skill check, you adjust for HCI and DCI (along with hit lower defense). If both are equal, the hit/miss chance remains 50/50. This is why most mages run max DCI. I should note, without a "weapon" skill as described above, DCI is functionally useless.
Lastly, there is the shield question. First off, carrying a shield with no parry skill has no negative impact on your chance to be hit, it just takes up an otherwise free hand. Adding parry will give you an additional chance to block with either your Mage weapon or your shield. The effect is not cumulative if you carry both, you get the shield bonus if you have a shield equipped. The chance to block is only checked after the chance to hit. At 120 parry you get a 20% chance to block attacks that pass the hit chance with a weapon OR a 35% chance to block attacks that pass the hit chance with a shield.
With 100 wrestle and no parry you have a 58% chance to get hit. With 100 parry wearing a shield and no weapon skill you have a 70% chance to get hit.