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Yes, u also need to raise ur dex to 80 to parry max, but u definitely cant live without anat or wresle or mage weap, at least not in pvp
Btw if u plan to parry with mage weap, ull have to add bushido
Yes u need one of them for sure, keep in mind, anatomy and evaluate intelligence need to add up to 220 to have equivalent of 120melee defensive ability. So u need to have 120eval 100ana, or just 120wresling
Mage weapon and parry is all you need.
Hci is still calculated off of the Mage weapon. So no you don't need anatomy, but if you do not use a Mage weapon then use wrestle but seems like a waste of a skill.
Hci is still calculated off of the Mage weapon. So no you don't need anatomy, but if you do not use a Mage weapon then use wrestle but seems like a waste of a skill.
I would opt for the Mage weapon over the shield since it actually provides a higher block percentage than parrying does if he's going to chug.
I Actually PVP
Adventurer
Where are you getting that info from?
If you're playing solo or just getting into pvp, I definitely would not got with a mage wep. One disarm and you're done. Parry/wrestle is the best defense against dexxers these days.
Very wrong thinking, as just mentioned, getting disarmed make u very vulnerable to any dexer.
Arguable but to each their own. I'd run the higher block and run when disarmed but then again I've played for awhile. I just prefer not to to eat the 120 points. You could argue running shot but disarm generally doesn't lAst that long and you can out chug it.
I also use a tactics pArry Mage and don't bother chugging. I do have it set up where I can drop weapon to chug but since he pvps solo I don't bother.
I do have a question, if you have 80 weapon skill does it factor the 120 Mage weapon in for blocking over the weapon skill?
No escape from any good gank, no way u can out chug it when disarmed, especially if u get splintered by the disarm.
No it doesnt affect magery
No it doesnt affect magery
Disarm doesn't even last that long, and Splinter isn't guaranteed to go off alongside Disarm; however, if it does, you're likely screwed. It is very possible to survive by chugging though.
Even if my mage weap has been disarmed, I've gotten people to whiff simply because I'm 120 Parry with max DCI. Sometimes repeatedly. I don't rely on it obviously, nor do I know why it happens without a weap, but it is a nice way to prolong my life until I can re-arm.
Funny, I do it all the time, but it's true starters probably shouldn't.
And the question was does the real 80 skill trump the 120 Mage weapon when figuring block chance.
Does it use the 80 or the 120 Mage?
120 mage logically, not sure, never tested it
I believe it uses the higher skill value, which in this case would be 120 mage. I'm not entirely sure either though.
It actually doesn't. You have a 50% chance with just mage weapon. With wrestle/parry or anat/parry you have 50% on first roll then 35% on second roll. Again this is multiplicative percentages. So having the parry/wrestle he actually has a 72% chance to block
It actually doesn't. You have a 50% chance with just mage weapon. With wrestle/parry or anat/parry you have 50% on first roll then 35% on second roll. Again this is multiplicative percentages. So having the parry/wrestle he actually has a 72% chance to block
I think we spoke about this before and somehow you borked your formula. So I would look again, because i recall you being wrong.( I actually already know how, you put the wrong number of favorable outcomes in parentheses.)
However, this is discussing the two separately.
Are far as the formula I'd like to know if the rolls is subsequent and if so which rolls first.
My formula is not borked, and I posted the exact calculations on how it works from start to finish. Did you not read the pic I posted? Unless you care to debunk my calculations I would hold off commenting about them and stick to your mage weapon
It's borked the percentage would be 67.5%.My formula is not borked, and I posted the exact calculations on how it works from start to finish. Did you not read the pic I posted? Unless you care to debunk my calculations I would hold off commenting about them and stick to your mage weapon
It would be if both were calculated together, but they are not. Again, look at the combat picture and how they are compared separately. One is rolled, then the other is rolled. So you have 100%-50% = 50% on the first roll, and then the second roll it has a 100% chance of going off if there is no other modifier, but with parry you now have 35% @ 120. So, it becomes (100-35) * 35 which give yous 22%. Add that to the 50% and you now have your generalized (without any other factors such as HLD) chance to parry. This is the last time I am going to debate this with you.
The simple fact you want to pic a mage weapon over parry proves my point...
The order of the calc is important when you consider them seperately.
With only Mage weapon and max DCI against 120 weapon skill and max HCI your chance to get hit is 50%.
With 120 parry and no Mage weapon or wrestle skill your chance to get hit is 65%. This is important to know if you get disarmed while running Mage weapon and parry.
With Mage weapon, 120 wrestle or Anat/eval combo AND 120 parry, your chance to get hit is 33% (rounded up).
With only Mage weapon and max DCI against 120 weapon skill and max HCI your chance to get hit is 50%.
With 120 parry and no Mage weapon or wrestle skill your chance to get hit is 65%. This is important to know if you get disarmed while running Mage weapon and parry.
With Mage weapon, 120 wrestle or Anat/eval combo AND 120 parry, your chance to get hit is 33% (rounded up).
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Wrong.
@ 120 parry you have a 35% chance to block.
Eval/anat or Wrestle have nothing to do with parry. They have everything to do with the initial hit on the mele side. If you do not have either you have 0 dci which then gives you absolutely no way to parry/block/evade.
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I have no idea how I was able to post for Oreo. he did not say any of the above. I said it. Stratics has been continually F*** Up for me for the past few weeks.
@Captn Norrington please fix the above so that it shows I stated the above, and not oreo
@Captn Norrington please fix the above so that it shows I stated the above, and not oreo
I believe you are incorrect in your application... Based on the order of the combat sequence, the chance to block is calculated after the chance to hit... so it is only 35% of those attempts that pass the chance to hit.
If you hit reply and leave some of the code for quoting a user it'll do that.
Using a Mage weapon separate of parry gives a higher block chance.
So weapon is 50 and parry is 35.
No one said they have anything to do with parry... But they have everything to do with your chance of getting hit.
However, they do interact with one another when they are both on the character to determine your combine chance to be hit.
However, they do interact with one another when they are both on the character to determine your combine chance to be hit.
Old vet is using the probability formula for using a weapon skill and parry.
His formula was 50%+((100%-35%)*35%)
Which doesn't work. If you're basing it back up to 100 outcomes you'd have a 35% chance of those, not 35% of 65%.
The correct would be 50%+((100%-50%)*35%)=67.5%
Since you already blocked half the shots.
His formula was 50%+((100%-35%)*35%)
Which doesn't work. If you're basing it back up to 100 outcomes you'd have a 35% chance of those, not 35% of 65%.
The correct would be 50%+((100%-50%)*35%)=67.5%
Since you already blocked half the shots.
You cannot use parry as a stand alone...So you argument is moot. You have to have the mele defense capability for it to roll. Also, a one handed weapon with parry gives you less of a chance then a shield. So I would suggest researching this more because you do not have all of the information you need to make accurate statements.
You are so flawed in everything you are stating.
If you are using a weapon and you get dis-armed Parry will never roll because you have a 100% chance of getting hit. If you have 100% of anything it will happen EVERY time.
The only way for parry to add a second roll is for your first roll to have a chance at blocking. Notice how the above states CLEARLY that you must have a Shield,1handed or 2 handed weapon. It DOES NOT state an option of "no weapon"! It also clearly states 35% with shield and only 20% with a 1 handed.
If I have a 50% chance of getting hit and it rolls against me, that means I now have 100% chance of getting hit. Having parry gives me a second roll against the hit. Since the hit IS GOING TO HAPPEN that means I have a 100% chance of getting hit and a 35% chance of blocking. My math is correct, and both of you need to reevaluate your information because you are both VERY incorrect.
Sorry, but you are wrong. 120 parry will block attacks even with no weapon skill as long as you are wearing a shield. The ORDER of the calculations IS the key factor you seem to be missing.You cannot use parry as a stand alone...So you argument is moot. You have to have the mele defense capability for it to roll. Also, a one handed weapon with parry gives you less of a chance then a shield. So I would suggest researching this more because you do not have all of the information you need to make accurate statements.
You are so flawed in everything you are stating.
If you are using a weapon and you get dis-armed Parry will never roll because you have a 100% chance of getting hit. If you have 100% of anything it will happen EVERY time.
The only way for parry to add a second roll is for your first roll to have a chance at blocking. Notice how the above states CLEARLY that you must have a Shield,1handed or 2 handed weapon. It DOES NOT state an option of "no weapon"! It also clearly states 35% with shield and only 20% with a 1 handed.
If I have a 50% chance of getting hit and it rolls against me, that means I now have 100% chance of getting hit. Having parry gives me a second roll against the hit. Since the hit IS GOING TO HAPPEN that means I have a 100% chance of getting hit and a 35% chance of blocking. My math is correct, and both of you need to reevaluate your information because you are both VERY incorrect.
Chance to hit and chance to block are sequential calculations. Just because the first chance = 100% does not negate the second calc. Go test it... Parry does work even with no weapon skill.
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Fixed it, sorry about that, it happens sometimes with the new typing box that was added. We are currently trying to find a solution for it. Since a copy of whatever you last typed is still saved in the typing box after you post, sometimes it thinks you are still quoting the same person if any part of the "quote" code is left in the typing box.
If you go to TC and put 120 parry on a toon with no other skills and have someone swing on you, you will never Parry! You will never get the parry animation/sound ever. I have tested this and you can rarely miss, but it is never due to parry. You can miss on a toon without parry that is disarmed as well. The reason being JOAT. You gain 20 wrestle passively. That equates to about a 2%-3% chance of still blocking while dis-armed.
Now, you are just grasping at any little thing you can in order to save face. In a fight against ANY decent 211 archer/thrower that can dis-arm and moving shot regardless of the extremely rare case of missing YOU WILL DIE.
The OP wanted to know how to effectively use Parry, I came on here and corrected the information that was put in front of him because it was incorrect. Take it or leave it, but Parry will not be activated unless a weapon or shield is equipped. I really do not want to have to post a video of me testing this with 100 attempts just to disprove you, but if you keep it up I will.
Why would anyone run around with just Parry? Is that really your argument? C'mon...
This argument is kinda turning me on
You WILL parry if you wear a shield with 120 parry and nothing else. Put on the shield and post your video. Please!
Since when cant you use parry as stand alone? I think you're wrong but I don't feel I need to explain this any further.You cannot use parry as a stand alone...So you argument is moot. You have to have the mele defense capability for it to roll. Also, a one handed weapon with parry gives you less of a chance then a shield. So I would suggest researching this more because you do not have all of the information you need to make accurate statements.
You are so flawed in everything you are stating.
If you are using a weapon and you get dis-armed Parry will never roll because you have a 100% chance of getting hit. If you have 100% of anything it will happen EVERY time.
The only way for parry to add a second roll is for your first roll to have a chance at blocking. Notice how the above states CLEARLY that you must have a Shield,1handed or 2 handed weapon. It DOES NOT state an option of "no weapon"! It also clearly states 35% with shield and only 20% with a 1 handed.
If I have a 50% chance of getting hit and it rolls against me, that means I now have 100% chance of getting hit. Having parry gives me a second roll against the hit. Since the hit IS GOING TO HAPPEN that means I have a 100% chance of getting hit and a 35% chance of blocking. My math is correct, and both of you need to reevaluate your information because you are both VERY incorrect.
I think we can simply agree to disagree.
No, you will MISS, not parry. There is a big Difference!
The OP and your own formulas (wrong as they are) disprove any argument you can make here.
If you have 120 parry and no wrestling skill and no mage weapon and no shield... yes you will get hit virtually every time. Yes, if you have parry and use a mage weapon with no shield, you get a 20% extra chance to block... but the ONLY way you get a 35% chance to block is wearing a SHIELD... and as long as you are wearing the SHIELD, you get the 35% chance to block regardless of whether or not you have a mage weapon or wrestling or not. All of the formulas you post to defend your defense chance use 35% which ALWAYS requires a SHIELD.
No mage weapon or wrestling/no shield = 0% chance to not get hit with or without parry
120 parry with a shield and no mage weapon or wrestle = 35% chance to block
Mage weapon or wrestling (or anat/eval) with no parry = 50% chance to not get hit
Mage weapon with 120 parry and no shield = 60% chance to not get hit
Mage weapon or Wrestle with 120 parry and a shield = 67.5% chance not to get hit
No, you will see the parry graphic and hear it. POST THE VIDEO!
No, it's JOAT. The char I do it on is human. I don't have a pair of race change tokens handy or I'd try it on an elf. I guarantee I'd get hit every time, simply because I don't have access to passive Wrestle. I do see the Parry graphic even while unarmed, but it doesn't happen often enough. Unless they chain AI it doesn't really matter too much - assuming full health, normal hits won't kill me before I can re-arm, and in the worst case scenario I can just chug a gheal pot.
Even with max DCI & Parry, if you don't have a way to block attacks (say with a passive racial trait like JOAT), the chance to hit is 100%. You NEED either a Mage weap or passive/active Anatomy/Wrestle to have a chance of evading while unarmed, no matter how much you might be able to block under normal circumstances.
Again, not true. We will wait for the video. Should be good. Parry with a shield works without any other defense skill or weapon. If I had the video software I would post my own, but I tested it and I know it works. The ONLY way you see the parry graphic is to PARRY, whether it is from JOAT or real skill. Wrestling/Mage Weapon will NEVER make you parry, they only make them miss, which would never show a PARRY graphic or sound.
If we are going off the website, just entering the info into the calculator including only parry and 80 dex:
[xtable=bcenter|border:1|cellpadding:1|cellspacing:0|100%x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}Chance to Block an Attack{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}Melee attacks can be fully parried if the defender is using a Shield or Melee weapon. Melee and ranged attacks can be parried. On a successful parry, the attacker will miss completely.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:7}
[xtable=border:0|cellpadding:1|cellspacing:0]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Dexterity:{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Parrying:{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Bushido:{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:7}Chance of blocking with a shield: 35%
Chance of blocking with a 1-handed weapon: 20%
Chance of blocking with a 2-handed weapon: 20%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}FORMULA:
Blocking with a shield:
% Chance = (Parrying - Bushido) / 4 (If less than 0, the chance is 0)
(Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Blocking with a 1-handed weapon (without a shield):
New = (Parrying * 10) * (Bushido * 10) / 48000 (Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Legacy = (Parrying * 10) / 80 (Add 5% if Parrying skill if 100 or above)
% Chance = Whichever is highest of the New and the Legacy formula.
Blocking with a 2-handed weapon:
New = (Parrying * 10) * (Bushido * 10) / 41140 (Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Legacy = (Parrying * 10) / 80 (Add 5% if Parrying skill if 100 or above)
% Chance = Whichever is highest of the New and the Legacy formula.
Dexterity Modifier if dex is less than 80[sup]*[/sup]: (80 - Dexterity) / 100 (If Dexterity is higher than 80, the modifier is 0)
Final % Chance of blocking = Base Chance * (1 - Dexterity Modifier){/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
The 1 and 2 handed weapon is the success chance you have at 120 parry with either a one handed weapon or two handed weapon. Clearly you cannot equip a 2 handed with a shield, so I'm convinced this is not JOAT.
But it interests me enough to make an elf on test center to give it a shot.
[xtable=bcenter|border:1|cellpadding:1|cellspacing:0|100%x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}Chance to Block an Attack{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}Melee attacks can be fully parried if the defender is using a Shield or Melee weapon. Melee and ranged attacks can be parried. On a successful parry, the attacker will miss completely.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:7}
[xtable=border:0|cellpadding:1|cellspacing:0]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Dexterity:{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Parrying:{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Bushido:{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:7}Chance of blocking with a shield: 35%
Chance of blocking with a 1-handed weapon: 20%
Chance of blocking with a 2-handed weapon: 20%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:3}FORMULA:
Blocking with a shield:
% Chance = (Parrying - Bushido) / 4 (If less than 0, the chance is 0)
(Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Blocking with a 1-handed weapon (without a shield):
New = (Parrying * 10) * (Bushido * 10) / 48000 (Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Legacy = (Parrying * 10) / 80 (Add 5% if Parrying skill if 100 or above)
% Chance = Whichever is highest of the New and the Legacy formula.
Blocking with a 2-handed weapon:
New = (Parrying * 10) * (Bushido * 10) / 41140 (Add 5% if Parrying or Bushido skill is 100 or above)
Legacy = (Parrying * 10) / 80 (Add 5% if Parrying skill if 100 or above)
% Chance = Whichever is highest of the New and the Legacy formula.
Dexterity Modifier if dex is less than 80[sup]*[/sup]: (80 - Dexterity) / 100 (If Dexterity is higher than 80, the modifier is 0)
Final % Chance of blocking = Base Chance * (1 - Dexterity Modifier){/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
The 1 and 2 handed weapon is the success chance you have at 120 parry with either a one handed weapon or two handed weapon. Clearly you cannot equip a 2 handed with a shield, so I'm convinced this is not JOAT.
But it interests me enough to make an elf on test center to give it a shot.
The elf thing really doesn't matter. The passive weapon/wrestling skill from JOAT would not make you parry, they would only make the opponent miss. If you see the parry graphic, it HAS to be from parry. And I promise, if you have 120 parry, it is EASY to tell that you are parrying more blows that just a random JOAT parry.
JoAT only adds like 1% chance to parry if you're holding a shield and you only have 10 dex.
You can definitely parry with the parry skill and a shield without a weapon skill at all, it just means if you don't parry, you will be hit 95% of the time without successful parry attempts.
You can definitely parry with the parry skill and a shield without a weapon skill at all, it just means if you don't parry, you will be hit 95% of the time without successful parry attempts.
You will block 35% of the time and hit 65% of the time at 80 dex and 120 parry with no weapon skill
Merus is right, about the parry thing, wrestling or weapon skills/anatomy+eval have absolutely no effect on your chance of Parrying, only Parry skill + Dexterity does and Bushido if applicable, obviously it depends if you're holding something you could block with, beit a weapon (with bushido/parry) or a shield (parry only).
You can parry without a weapon skill even with JoAT parry skill, but it's roughly 1% chance, if you just hold a shield, but when you don't parry you're very likely to be hit.
Aside from the 5% min/max rule, even a 120 swordsman vs a 0 wrestling 0 parry elf mage will be missed 5% of the time. because of this, the calculators aren't accurate either. You can Never have 100% chance to hit or dodge regardless of skills & equipment, it's simply not possible anymore.
Your weapon skill + defense chance vs your opponents hit chance + weapon skill determines your chance to be hit or miss, not factoring parry at all. it should be 50/50 if both players are capped (at 45/45) in HCI/DCI and 120 weapon skills or equivalent.
OREOGL is right In the end it should equate to about 32.5% chance to be hit overall and a 67.5% overall chance to dodge OR parry (If the defending target is not affected by Lower Defense).
just from skills & equipment.
Parry & Dodge chances are not the same... they don't stack completely, 50% chance to dodge, +35% chance to block = 85% total mitigation, it doesn't mean you will be missed 85% of the time. you have two separate chances one at 50%, and one at 35% only one could happen.
I believe dodge chance is checked first. thus having max DCI in a sense reduces the frequency in which you parry (this is just speculation, but it seems to be true so far).
Also, brought to my attention, (which I have not tested) is that your chance to dodge from your weapon skill vs your opponents weapon skill is based off of "real skill".
for example, if one uses Captain John's Hat for the +20 swordsmanship vs another player that has 120 real weapon skill the person with real skill will hit the player with modified skill as often based on their real skill, so essentially it would be 100 swords, vs 120 when it comes to the modified skill user being hit of course. as I've said, I have not tested this, but it is very possible.
You can parry without a weapon skill even with JoAT parry skill, but it's roughly 1% chance, if you just hold a shield, but when you don't parry you're very likely to be hit.
Aside from the 5% min/max rule, even a 120 swordsman vs a 0 wrestling 0 parry elf mage will be missed 5% of the time. because of this, the calculators aren't accurate either. You can Never have 100% chance to hit or dodge regardless of skills & equipment, it's simply not possible anymore.
Your weapon skill + defense chance vs your opponents hit chance + weapon skill determines your chance to be hit or miss, not factoring parry at all. it should be 50/50 if both players are capped (at 45/45) in HCI/DCI and 120 weapon skills or equivalent.
OREOGL is right In the end it should equate to about 32.5% chance to be hit overall and a 67.5% overall chance to dodge OR parry (If the defending target is not affected by Lower Defense).
just from skills & equipment.
Parry & Dodge chances are not the same... they don't stack completely, 50% chance to dodge, +35% chance to block = 85% total mitigation, it doesn't mean you will be missed 85% of the time. you have two separate chances one at 50%, and one at 35% only one could happen.
I believe dodge chance is checked first. thus having max DCI in a sense reduces the frequency in which you parry (this is just speculation, but it seems to be true so far).
Also, brought to my attention, (which I have not tested) is that your chance to dodge from your weapon skill vs your opponents weapon skill is based off of "real skill".
for example, if one uses Captain John's Hat for the +20 swordsmanship vs another player that has 120 real weapon skill the person with real skill will hit the player with modified skill as often based on their real skill, so essentially it would be 100 swords, vs 120 when it comes to the modified skill user being hit of course. as I've said, I have not tested this, but it is very possible.
This is way too comical. I am waiting for my friend to get home from work and we will record the video and upload it.
The JoAT comes into effect when you are dis-armed OR using parry with zero real weapon skill. You then get the passive 20 wrestle/parry and like covenant said it comes down to about 2% chance to miss.
You cannot use parry as a stand alone and achieve blocking @ 35%. I will also prove/debunk this in the video.
The JoAT comes into effect when you are dis-armed OR using parry with zero real weapon skill. You then get the passive 20 wrestle/parry and like covenant said it comes down to about 2% chance to miss.
You cannot use parry as a stand alone and achieve blocking @ 35%. I will also prove/debunk this in the video.