Pet power calculator question

[Odin of LS]

Pinco's and Uocraft have different ratings on the same pet. I tamed a greater dragon that rated 4.2 on uo craft but pincos says its 3.7. Which is the more accurate or what calculator do others use?

 

[DJAd]

I usually find the rating from Pinco UI a bit lower than the Pet power calc website. I would say the uocraft one is the "standard".

 

[PurplePotion]

I've always used and rated my pets with UO craft.

 

[railshot]

Pinco's and Uocraft have different ratings on the same pet. I tamed a greater dragon that rated 4.2 on uo craft but pincos says its 3.7. Which is the more accurate or what calculator do others use?

There is no "accurate" since these are just arbitrary formulas that people came up with. Having said that, it's my understanding the formulas are the same in both of these. The differences come from how the EC vs Uocraft round numbers off (its a functional limitation in the client). Pinco's values are usually a bit lower. As DjAd said, Uocraft is older and that's what people refer to generally.

 

[Odin of LS]

thanks for the replies I've always used uocraft myself too I just thougt it strange they were different

 

[Longtooths]

+1 for uocraft

 

[Blue Fly]

Uocraft here. Though none of them really consider the skills as much weight as they should IMO.

 

[kitiara-atlantic]

Hi all,

There are 2 differences between the Pinco's calculation and the UOCraft web site calculation -

1. Greater dragons and Dragon turtles: those are the two pets that, on the UOCraft web site, use a slightly different formula. The two highest possible resists (phys and fire) are weighted as more important within the 65% weight assigned to resists, since those would be the most important resists. Pinco's UI animal lore gump does not do that. It uses the standard formula (equal resist weighting - 65% to resists, 25% to hit points, 5% to stats and, when included, 5% to skills).

2. The scripting language required by the UI handles rounding numbers differently than the language used on the UOCraft web site. Therefore, even in the standard calculation, there is sometimes a 0.1 to 0.2 difference between Pinco's UI and UOCraft. (Pinco's is usually lower. He's using the same formula, but the languages round differently).

When I list pets for sale, I always use the UOCraft numbers, but I do use Pinco's UI when I'm out taming to get in-the-ballpark (and to lore wild critters).

Random tip - for those of you that have a tablet or smart phone, what I usually do is set up my iPad next to my monitor and use the mobile version of the pet calc on my tablet (UOCraft.com Mobile). That way I don't have to leave the game screen to pull up my browser.

Thanks, everybody, for your feedback on the pet calc! It's a labor of love

 

[DJAd]

Thanks, everybody, for your feedback on the pet calc! It's a labor of love

and thank you for taking the time and effort to maintain such an awesome and useful website.

 

[Odin of LS]

Hi all,

There are 2 differences between the Pinco's calculation and the UOCraft web site calculation -

1. Greater dragons and Dragon turtles: those are the two pets that, on the UOCraft web site, use a slightly different formula. The two highest possible resists (phys and fire) are weighted as more important within the 65% weight assigned to resists, since those would be the most important resists. Pinco's UI animal lore gump does not do that. It uses the standard formula (equal resist weighting - 65% to resists, 25% to hit points, 5% to stats and, when included, 5% to skills).

2. The scripting language required by the UI handles rounding numbers differently than the language used on the UOCraft web site. Therefore, even in the standard calculation, there is sometimes a 0.1 to 0.2 difference between Pinco's UI and UOCraft. (Pinco's is usually lower. He's using the same formula, but the languages round differently).

When I list pets for sale, I always use the UOCraft numbers, but I do use Pinco's UI when I'm out taming to get in-the-ballpark (and to lore wild critters).

Random tip - for those of you that have a tablet or smart phone, what I usually do is set up my iPad next to my monitor and use the mobile version of the pet calc on my tablet (UOCraft.com Mobile). That way I don't have to leave the game screen to pull up my browser.

Thanks, everybody, for your feedback on the pet calc! It's a labor of love

Thanks for the reply you and your calculator rock btw!

 

[MalagAste]

Personally I only use Pinco's... Probably because I find it too tedious to have to plug all those numbers in to UOCraft's website. Even on my phone it's a pain and too tedious. IMO...

Now if they DEV's are doing a pet "revamp" I would hope that one of the things they look at is the pet power calculator and somehow put that into the actual client. Would certainly make my day.

 

[kitiara-atlantic]

Now if they DEV's are doing a pet "revamp" I would hope that one of the things they look at is the pet power calculator and somehow put that into the actual client. Would certainly make my day.

I would absolutely be open to that! We (as the tamers of Britannia) would definitely have to have a larger scale discussion to determine the formula as it relates to whatever is revamped, but I think over the years at the very least we've demonstrated the usefulness of having a way to compare pets apples-to-apples. Of course, there will never be a perfect formula, as choosing pets is as much situational as anything, but there's a need to be able to - once you know what you are looking for - compare two items (pets) to make an informed choice between them.

For history's sake, the original formula was developed here in the Stratics tamer forum over about 4 months of constant posts and emails between a handful of people (some of which are still around, others not - they're linked at the bottom of the PPC page on UOCraft). I just went back to those old emails... wow. Spring of 2007. There was a lot of testing where we tried to determine what had the most significant impact on the success of a pet in battle - and by success, we basically boiled it down to, living the longest without dying. That is why skills ended up with such a low contribution to the overall score. High skills with bad resists and hit points just didn't make a big enough difference in the pet's lifespan to warrant more weight. Now, certainly, if the metric of success was damage output or another facet of its role, skills would play a much larger part - and that is where, if you are looking for a pet that does, say, the most damage per minute or something like that, a PPC score might be irrelevant to you. But we rationalized that a dead pet doesn't do any damage; therefore, lifespan trumped damage output in our definition of a powerful pet. Resists and hit points had the greatest impact on the pet's longevity in battle, so they got the most weight.

A few years later, the greater dragon's formula was tweaked to weight the two highest possible resists as most important in the weighting, since GDs had become the drug of choice for most tamers. That now applies to dragon turtles as well, since they're essentially the same as GDs once trained.

So, there's a trip down memory lane all to say, gosh, I would love if the calculation was built into the default client!

I agree... it's a pain to type the numbers into a separate tab/screen/device/whatever. I've actually spent more time than I should trying to find a way to do optical character recognition with it - like take a phone picture of your animal lore gump on the screen, text it to some UOCraft number or upload it to the page, and the app reads the picture and gives you your score. But to do it for free is far more complicated than I have time for, and to do it the easier way is far too expensive for me to afford! But please know that I've always got my eyes out for some way to make it easier to input the data. Having it built into the client would be a win win!

 

[MalagAste]

I would absolutely be open to that! We (as the tamers of Britannia) would definitely have to have a larger scale discussion to determine the formula as it relates to whatever is revamped, but I think over the years at the very least we've demonstrated the usefulness of having a way to compare pets apples-to-apples. Of course, there will never be a perfect formula, as choosing pets is as much situational as anything, but there's a need to be able to - once you know what you are looking for - compare two items (pets) to make an informed choice between them.

For history's sake, the original formula was developed here in the Stratics tamer forum over about 4 months of constant posts and emails between a handful of people (some of which are still around, others not - they're linked at the bottom of the PPC page on UOCraft). I just went back to those old emails... wow. Spring of 2007. There was a lot of testing where we tried to determine what had the most significant impact on the success of a pet in battle - and by success, we basically boiled it down to, living the longest without dying. That is why skills ended up with such a low contribution to the overall score. High skills with bad resists and hit points just didn't make a big enough difference in the pet's lifespan to warrant more weight. Now, certainly, if the metric of success was damage output or another facet of its role, skills would play a much larger part - and that is where, if you are looking for a pet that does, say, the most damage per minute or something like that, a PPC score might be irrelevant to you. But we rationalized that a dead pet doesn't do any damage; therefore, lifespan trumped damage output in our definition of a powerful pet. Resists and hit points had the greatest impact on the pet's longevity in battle, so they got the most weight.

A few years later, the greater dragon's formula was tweaked to weight the two highest possible resists as most important in the weighting, since GDs had become the drug of choice for most tamers. That now applies to dragon turtles as well, since they're essentially the same as GDs once trained.

So, there's a trip down memory lane all to say, gosh, I would love if the calculation was built into the default client!

I agree... it's a pain to type the numbers into a separate tab/screen/device/whatever. I've actually spent more time than I should trying to find a way to do optical character recognition with it - like take a phone picture of your animal lore gump on the screen, text it to some UOCraft number or upload it to the page, and the app reads the picture and gives you your score. But to do it for free is far more complicated than I have time for, and to do it the easier way is far too expensive for me to afford! But please know that I've always got my eyes out for some way to make it easier to input the data. Having it built into the client would be a win win!

I would think that the majority of us "tamers" use some form of it.... so incorporating it into the client only makes sense. IMO. Personally I would love to see it as part of the client.

And I still say that if we "players" as characters have Resisting Spells we gain a base to our resists so even without armor we are at a certain level based on our Resisting Spells... IMO pets should get that same benefit.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

For history's sake, the original formula was developed here in the Stratics tamer forum over about 4 months of constant posts and emails between a handful of people (some of which are still around, others not - they're linked at the bottom of the PPC page on UOCraft). I just went back to those old emails... wow. Spring of 2007. There was a lot of testing where we tried to determine what had the most significant impact on the success of a pet in battle - and by success, we basically boiled it down to, living the longest without dying. That is why skills ended up with such a low contribution to the overall score. High skills with bad resists and hit points just didn't make a big enough difference in the pet's lifespan to warrant more weight. Now, certainly, if the metric of success was damage output or another facet of its role, skills would play a much larger part - and that is where, if you are looking for a pet that does, say, the most damage per minute or something like that, a PPC score might be irrelevant to you. But we rationalized that a dead pet doesn't do any damage; therefore, lifespan trumped damage output in our definition of a powerful pet. Resists and hit points had the greatest impact on the pet's longevity in battle, so they got the most weight.

Back in 2007, we only had Hiryus and Reptalons that could go above the trainable GM Wrest, and they capped out at 108.0 Wrestling post tame, which only gave them an additional 3% chance to hit/avoid being hit over any other pet with GM Wrest. Which wasn't much of a difference.

Now though, we have Greater Dragons that spawn with 115.0-145.0 Wrest, so have 103.5-130.5 Wrest when trained post tame. That's a big variation, up to 27.0 points, which is like a flat 11% hit/avoid difference if i'm not wrong. Wrest skill not only determines how often they successfully land a hit, but it also determines how often they avoid being hit, it's both offense and defense, so a pretty big deal. Especially since the bulk of a GDs damage output comes from his melee attacks, and the main threat to a Tamer's GD isn't magic, but hard hitting melee. I think Wrestling skill deserves a higher weight on GDs/Turtles.

 

[kitiara-atlantic]

Back in 2007, we only had Hiryus and Reptalons that could go above the trainable GM Wrest, and they capped out at 108.0 Wrestling post tame, which only gave them an additional 3% chance to hit/avoid being hit over any other pet with GM Wrest. Which wasn't much of a difference.

Now though, we have Greater Dragons that spawn with 115.0-145.0 Wrest, so have 103.5-130.5 Wrest when trained post tame. That's a big variation, up to 27.0 points, which is like a flat 11% hit/avoid difference if i'm not wrong. Wrest skill not only determines how often they successfully land a hit, but it also determines how often they avoid being hit, it's both offense and defense, so a pretty big deal. Especially since the bulk of a GDs damage output comes from his melee attacks, and the main threat to a Tamer's GD isn't magic, but hard hitting melee. I think Wrestling skill deserves a higher weight on GDs/Turtles.

When GDs came out in Feb 2008, the same group that did the original testing continued testing on GDs. That's why the formula is different for GDs (in the weighting of resists) than other pets. While wrestling is important, it wasn't close to the damage prevented by resists and the influence of HP in the metric of time-to-redline (which was the metric we decided was the most important... how long a pet can live unassisted by third-party heals). These tests will surely be re-done if the pet revamp ever happens, but I don't anticipate the calculator formulas fundamentally changing before then.