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Is this the answer for scripters and cheaters?

Gamer_Goblin

Sage
Stratics Veteran
The part 3 patch on patcher says "This client patch is not mandatory unless you want to see new features on Test Center." Would this be targeted at hmmm... scripters?
 

Kat

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We don't have this problem much on Siege because we actively seek out scripters and kill them. PvP cheaters are a different story.

I suppose it might be nice to have some way for the client to detect third party programs that are not sanctioned and flag the user character gray, which would render them freely attackable by anyone... AND on all facets! I could have some fun with that! :D
 

Zuckuss

Order | Chaos
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Folks,

This is a thread about how to deal with cheaters. Out of respect for the original poster and the topic, can we please keep specifics about individuals or groups of individuals out of this thread? The original topic itself holds a great deal of value for the community and the game. If you wish to ask someone a direct question, please do so via private message.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
if anyone would like to see some cheaters in action at events, feel free to checkout youtube. its really a sad thing that Mesanna does very little to punish scripting / cheating / multiboxing, and that so many in the game seem to think its just "no big deal" UO would be a much more vibrant, fun activity if a hard stance were taken on cheating years ago, but instead so many seem to think its normal.
Let me see... what was it she said..... Oh yes I remember "Whatever way you want to win you win." Something like that...

So if you want to run 6 clients as one and all Curse, Exp, FS on someone on all 6 clients at the same time while you all move as one using one keyboard then hey you win!

If you want to take your 6 clients running as one and attend every EM event (Not by transfering but because you made 6 identical characters on EVERY shard except of course Siege and Mugen, because you could script it up easily all the way) then you just log in and run your program and boom guarenteed to have 6 chances at every drop! So sometimes you get 2 sometimes 3 drops to sell so you can sell gold for cash or sell the items for cash... and Viola! Instant income! You win!

*rolls eyes*
 

King Greg

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
And further discussing it like these forums only advertises things more...
 

Olcher

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
And further discussing it like these forums only advertises things more...
I agree, but, what other way are you able to get through to the people 'at the top' and let them know that not only are these programs detrimental to the game/community (hey, look what's going on right now in this thread!) but the majority of players don't condone the use of these programs/activities?

To the OP: might I offer a much easier solution? Using programs deemed illegal by their own TOS immediately results in the familiar gump appearing, saying:

Connection Lost
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Yes we all know folk who do it. But keep in mind everytime it's done you risk losing an account. I'm not willing to do that. @S_S and @Arcus have it right... do a tiny publish to both clients every 3 or 4 days. This will destroy those that don't really make their own scripts and exploit the scripts created by others on the sites that should NEVER be named.
Unfortunately it's too far gone, that wouldn't even work now even if these "mini publishes" were mandatory.
If UO could prevent RunUO programs from logging into official servers, that would do Much much more. Until then, there's no reason to even do anything about illegal scripting.
 

Old Vet Back Again

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Let me see... what was it she said..... Oh yes I remember "Whatever way you want to win you win." Something like that...

So if you want to run 6 clients as one and all Curse, Exp, FS on someone on all 6 clients at the same time while you all move as one using one keyboard then hey you win!

If you want to take your 6 clients running as one and attend every EM event (Not by transfering but because you made 6 identical characters on EVERY shard except of course Siege and Mugen, because you could script it up easily all the way) then you just log in and run your program and boom guarenteed to have 6 chances at every drop! So sometimes you get 2 sometimes 3 drops to sell so you can sell gold for cash or sell the items for cash... and Viola! Instant income! You win!

*rolls eyes*
Who said this? Mesanna?
 

Acid Rain

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
GMs do their jobs, unfortunately their jobs don't include stopping what many players consider cheats.
Its painfully obvious to anyone that has played for any length of time that many players use 3rd pp
that are not "officially" allowed yet rarely (if ever) is action taken.

You can argue against my statement but that doesn't change the fact it happens often and most players
know it happens.
 

Merlin

The Enchanter
Moderator
Professional
Governor
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
Quite frankly, scripting is here to stay and people are wasting their breath continuing to moan about it. Some of you might not like it, but that's more likely than not the truth here.

Additionally, with scarce developer manpower, I haven't seen any realistic suggestion for how they can deal with this. I hate to break it to all the self-righteous non-cheaters out there, but full time policing isn't a viable option at this point considering available staffing.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It would be nice if they would just start a record of accounts that stayed active more than 16 hours a day and checked up on those accounts to see if it was unattended repetitive behavior, have a copy of the accounts game window playing on a second monitor beside their main monitor or something. I had a Miner turn up one day in a cave I was mining that recalled around the cave, not walking even an inch of screen travel between mining spots and mine away, even at the spot I was currently mining myself. No walking, no replies. I kicked back and watched him come back through a couple more times like he was on a schedule then logged to go play RL. He was still coming through a few hours later that day when I logged back in and still at it when I logged on late in the evening to get some more ore mined before calling it a day. I reported the character and never saw it again after that, apparently he got dealt with. I'd say it was a safe bet it was a scriptor account. With something that obvious just ban the account involved and if the same name or cc is associated with more than one scripting account after that, ban any accounts linked to it.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
they deal with cheating when it is found. speculating does nothing. It's easy to judge someone without facts and proof. Let the gms do there job and you play the game. Sounds simple
what exactly would you consider proof?
 

4runnersport

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
what exactly would you consider proof?
Iv'e seen people yanked from yew gate pvping a few times during the middle of a fight and then come back later and complain in chat about people paging on them. I suggest any time you see someone you think is cheating you page and if you are correct then the appropriate action would be taken..

edit- i did not screenshot this bc it was not important to me to document so sorry if that's not good enough for you
 

Flagg

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This is an answer to question " How should devs punish people who get caught cheating?!"

If devs had efficient way to catch most all cheaters and desire to punish them severly, there'd not be that many cheaters left in the first place. Thinly manned support crew can't catch them that efficiently and prolly don't want to lose em as subs. So this is a solution to problem nobody feels a need to solve.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Iv'e seen people yanked from yew gate pvping a few times during the middle of a fight and then come back later and complain in chat about people paging on them. I suggest any time you see someone you think is cheating you page and if you are correct then the appropriate action would be taken..

edit- i did not screenshot this bc it was not important to me to document so sorry if that's not good enough for you
As DJad said earlier tho, UO doesnt even have anti-cheat detection capabilities. So what if a GM pulled them aside? if they were there, and responsive, they of course like you said came back to Yew gate. I guess what im saying is, how exactly would a GM "prove" someone was cheating to send that person to the cheater server?
 

4runnersport

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As DJad said earlier tho, UO doesnt even have anti-cheat detection capabilities.
Is DJad a dev? Otherwise that argument is kinda pointless going on what normal players say. I have heard they do have a detection for it so you can't go by what you hear. I am just telling you the time i witnessed people getting pulled then coming back complaining they got warnings. You asked for proof what i gave you is about as good of proof as you are going to get from a normal player. Like i said if you see suspicious activity report it and if your right they will at least get a warning.
 

Lt.Snuggles

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Is DJad a dev? Otherwise that argument is kinda pointless going on what normal players say. I have heard they do have a detection for it so you can't go by what you hear. I am just telling you the time i witnessed people getting pulled then coming back complaining they got warnings. You asked for proof what i gave you is about as good of proof as you are going to get from a normal player. Like i said if you see suspicious activity report it and if your right they will at least get a warning.
i heard you sir were lobbying for your guildmate to be thrown in jail the other night at the gate... you've been dismissed!
 

petemage

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
As if the Devs had any intention to even punish cheaters that are below duping thousands of tokens. Some of them even made it to their own threads here, which ofc still lead to no action taken by the devs :D

And then Bonnie even said everything is fine as long as you can type "Hi" to an GM if he shows up.
 

the 4th man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well, I been watching a thief hiding for 3 days now no stop, reported it twice, and nothings being done. Who runs UO these days? May just go over GM's and devs heads........
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
In general, I consider people who script weak.

It's a personal choice you make and I consider it a reflection of the person who chooses that path. (yeah, I am pretty blunt with my opinions)

There are things that UO could do to combat scripting, but anything they have done, only hurts the honest player. It really feels like they are out of touch with the game and really don't think things through when they implement them.

But, it's been ignored so long and players do it so open and blatantly, they might as well end the charade and make it legal.
 

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Why can't they just do a mini patch every 3-4 days? Gee one day the flower is blue, 4 days later it's pink, 4 days later it's blue again. No major part on the dev team and stops said programs from staying updated.
Ugh. This wouldn't work. It would only effect one program used to my limited knowledge and obviously the creator would augment the program to no longer do it. Want to stop cheaters/scripters? Answer is actually simple. Hire more GMs.
 

petemage

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
But, it's been ignored so long and players do it so open and blatantly, they might as well end the charade and make it legal.
Mesanna when asked about blatant scripting at EM events..



But seriously, scripting is UO endgame content. Like it or hate it.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Or the answer could be to just ban the users account and any linked accounts. Why would you want to ship them off to a server they probably wont play? Just ban them. Never going to happen of course as EA obviously condones scripting.
Chance to keep them subbed? Anyway, we all know cheating/scripting in UO is commonplace, it won't be stopped, or addressed, the pop is too low. Just deal with it.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
its not even hard to check for a specific process, u can even do it with powershell.
EG.
Get-Process
Will show all running processes (programs)
You can even get it to tell you the file path if u filter it with a path option like..
Get -Process | select path
Then u get a nice list you can do checksums on, to see if they are bad programs.
I mean FFS people its not rocket science.
 

Troll The T Hunter

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't think they can stop all the scripters/cheaters they will just make new programs. Might as well just give every player these programs. If every UO player had the same cheat programs would it be cheating? Lets say player A has a speed hack and player B has a speed hack they would both be going the same speed -ping speed. You obviously can't have people creating things out of thin air like dupping but maybe to even the playing field UO should let EVERYONE script.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Mesanna when asked about blatant scripting at EM events..

But seriously, scripting is UO endgame content. Like it or hate it.
I disagree about scripting being endgame content. There is nothing in UO that I need scripting to do. I CHOOSE not to PvP, because there just about everyone is speed hacking and scripting. I mine all my ore, chop my trees, do all the PvE content.
 

Longtooths

Supreme Commander
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
What if they could see who scripted? What if they did look to see who was doing it? What if the sheer number of people scripting was such that banning them all would do irreparable harm to their revenue, thus shutting down the game?
 

Captn Norrington

Stratics Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
What if they could see who scripted? What if they did look to see who was doing it? What if the sheer number of people scripting was such that banning them all would do irreparable harm to their revenue, thus shutting down the game?
If that is the case then they should go in the complete opposite direction. They could reach out to the creators of every single third party program and offer to put a link to their programs on UO.com under a new section dedicated solely to third party programs.

They could make everything legal with the exception of duping, and have guides on UO.com explaining the benefits of each program. That way all players would have an equal chance to learn about, and use the programs that so many people already have been using illegally.

I am extremely against scripts, cheating etc. but I believe the game should be fair for everyone. If that means legalizing the illegal programs so everyone can use them, then so be it.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The most recent newsletter [ Ultima Online Newsletter #6 ] includes this little blurb:

If you have an account that was terminated by CS over a year ago and would like to have it back please contact support here and give them the details and identify the account as yours, depending on the termination we will remove the restriction from your account so you may open it again.
After reading that, does anyone really think Broadsword cares about whether or not people are actively cheating in UO these days?
 

petemage

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I disagree about scripting being endgame content. There is nothing in UO that I need scripting to do. I CHOOSE not to PvP, because there just about everyone is speed hacking and scripting. I mine all my ore, chop my trees, do all the PvE content.
With endgame content I mean the things that keep people attracted to the game over a long period of time.

For some its PvE bosses, for some its being competitive in PvP. Others engage in rares collecting or doing EM events on like every shard. And then other people again find their satisifaction in modding the UI or figuring ways to automate boring stuff (what people like to call scripting).
 

Bobar

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Server down time on each shard is about 30 minutes to an hour usually, so it's impossible to have an account logged in for 24 hours straight.
Interesting that!. I have always thought the same, which raises the question of what was happening in my recent post - 'Now I have seen it all' which is still current. This particular bot was there 3 whole days before anything of interest could possibly happen. It defies belief that the runner logged in after server up for 2 days for no real purpose so the inference is that the script did it for him. I did not think it possible but what other explanation is there?.
 

hijii

Visitor
Someone at Everquest II came up with the most interesting answer to deal with cheaters. It rolls out in a few days.


A prison server. You get caught cheating, you get a 1 way ticket to that server where you can cheat all you want.

And no, it's not some fun server to keep 1 character at. All of your characters end up there.


You can read the entire story here:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/cheaters-to-get-locked-away-on-prison-server-in-ev/1100-6429927/



Sounds good to me. Set it up Mesanna.
Scripting for ressources is evil and unfair.... but scripting for skills is necessary. just look at uoassist which is completely legal. playing uo with no macros and scripts is carpal tunnel worthy. getting from 0 to gm carpentry meant crafting 8974 gnarled staffs. talk about pain
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Scripting for ressources is evil and unfair.... but scripting for skills is necessary. just look at uoassist which is completely legal. playing uo with no macros and scripts is carpal tunnel worthy. getting from 0 to gm carpentry meant crafting 8974 gnarled staffs. talk about pain
Nobody in their right mind would get a large amount of resources (say 60k ingots) by hand. Especially multiple times.
 

Fridgster

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Nobody in their right mind would get a large amount of resources (say 60k ingots) by hand. Especially multiple times.
Not true. I have stacks of gold ingots... course different method.

If we really want to stick it to the scripters don't buy their goods. Course then you would have to grind endlessly to get what you need.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The most recent newsletter [ Ultima Online Newsletter #6 ] includes this little blurb:

If you have an account that was terminated by CS over a year ago and would like to have it back please contact support here and give them the details and identify the account as yours, depending on the termination we will remove the restriction from your account so you may open it again.

After reading that, does anyone really think Broadsword cares about whether or not people are actively cheating in UO these days?
Might also be a sign the current number of paying accounts is getting to low to make keeping UO going worthwhile for EA. Things could be at the point they'll take any paying account they can get to keep the game going.
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't think they can stop all the scripters/cheaters they will just make new programs. Might as well just give every player these programs. If every UO player had the same cheat programs would it be cheating? Lets say player A has a speed hack and player B has a speed hack they would both be going the same speed -ping speed. You obviously can't have people creating things out of thin air like dupping but maybe to even the playing field UO should let EVERYONE script.
Yea, stop punishing doping at the olympics. Let them all dope! May the best doper win!

Have a good one, Lance Armstong ;)
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
has anyone ever wondered if the devs cheat lol. just kidding. I like the patch idea. why isn't there anything around that can kill u now days? theres also already too much resources out there now, more would not be good. the way things are going, the future of uo will be people using 4 to 10 accounts at the same time, with very few single account people playing. wait its already happening, at least the first part.
 

Balinor of Pk?

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Did you know that years ago, there used to be flags on special peoples accounts, that read, "Do not ban for afk macroing." It's always been condoned in some way. You don't think devs and gms script? How do you think they do some of the things they do in game? Ems do it, most of the people in the trade forums do it. Half the people in this thread do it at least. All of you saying that most people don't do it are dillusional. It's rampant. Every vent I'm in people discuss it relentlessly. Also, forced patches do nothing to prevent it. It's trivial to create a program that allows you to login like you're using any client you like. There's already ones available that do it. It can't be stopped, in UO, or most any other game, and if devs of any game try, the creators of these tools just get sneakier, and go stealth mode. Or play cat and mouse. There's no win or lose. Because there is no winning against it, and there is no sure fire way to stop it. Just let it go. And play the game YOU like. And others will play it the way THEY like. And you will be much happier enjoing the game in trammel any way you like. Just don't come to fel if you don't want to cheat, cause EVERYONE there does. And if they say they don't, they're lying. Or just too lazy to learn. 9x out of 10 the ones that don't, just can't figure it out. I'd be mad too if everyone could do something I couldn't, because I can't read a faq or tutorial and figure most anything out. It's not rocket science. I say we put all trammies on a shard by themselves to sew shirts and bake bread all they like, erase trammel on the other shards, and lets get back to the game as it's meant to be played. Then you have your chat server, and we play UO. Done and done. If you spent half as much time trying to learn as you do complaining, you'd be 10x more proficient at UO, and scripting, and reading, and gee, most anything else actually. Seriously. Do you realize that half of the "features" in UO started out as CHEATS? Fire Beetles. Made after portable forges were discovered in game. Quick selling, was a bug, became a feature of Assist. UoAssist itself was a cheat, until it became an official 3rd party program, and some of it's "features" that were great were disabled because they wanted the money. Without cheats, half the things that are really great in UO, would never have been added to the game. Get over it already. Quit complaining. There will always be people trying to get an advantage, and those people actually help shape games much more than complaining does. That's a fact.
 

Tjalle

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Did you know that years ago, there used to be flags on special peoples accounts, that read, "Do not ban for afk macroing." It's always been condoned in some way. You don't think devs and gms script? How do you think they do some of the things they do in game? Ems do it, most of the people in the trade forums do it. Half the people in this thread do it at least. All of you saying that most people don't do it are dillusional. It's rampant. Every vent I'm in people discuss it relentlessly. Also, forced patches do nothing to prevent it. It's trivial to create a program that allows you to login like you're using any client you like. There's already ones available that do it. It can't be stopped, in UO, or most any other game, and if devs of any game try, the creators of these tools just get sneakier, and go stealth mode. Or play cat and mouse. There's no win or lose. Because there is no winning against it, and there is no sure fire way to stop it. Just let it go. And play the game YOU like. And others will play it the way THEY like. And you will be much happier enjoing the game in trammel any way you like. Just don't come to fel if you don't want to cheat, cause EVERYONE there does. And if they say they don't, they're lying. Or just too lazy to learn. 9x out of 10 the ones that don't, just can't figure it out. I'd be mad too if everyone could do something I couldn't, because I can't read a faq or tutorial and figure most anything out. It's not rocket science. I say we put all trammies on a shard by themselves to sew shirts and bake bread all they like, erase trammel on the other shards, and lets get back to the game as it's meant to be played. Then you have your chat server, and we play UO. Done and done. If you spent half as much time trying to learn as you do complaining, you'd be 10x more proficient at UO, and scripting, and reading, and gee, most anything else actually. Seriously. Do you realize that half of the "features" in UO started out as CHEATS? Fire Beetles. Made after portable forges were discovered in game. Quick selling, was a bug, became a feature of Assist. UoAssist itself was a cheat, until it became an official 3rd party program, and some of it's "features" that were great were disabled because they wanted the money. Without cheats, half the things that are really great in UO, would never have been added to the game. Get over it already. Quit complaining. There will always be people trying to get an advantage, and those people actually help shape games much more than complaining does. That's a fact.
So here we have another cheater promoting cheating, which I´m sure will be allowed to continue to post because that´s the path Stratics is going down...
 
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