Anyone else have a house disappear since yesterday?

[BrianFreud]

Ever since I lost 2 houses last year due to the IDOC changes, I now walk every one of my houses daily, just to triple check that nothing's gone wrong and set any of them IDOC.

I walked them all last night, none was in any stage of decay.

I've even checked with IDOCer friends, and none had any of my houses marked as IDOC lately.

For those who've been to see the mountain house I've been building for the past 3 years... the right house disappeared today. IT NEVER WENT IDOC. It simply *poofed*. Nothing was on the sign, nothing is on the ground, and nothing is in the cavern. I was walking in that house last night on a co-owner account.

The only thing I can think is that something got borked when Chessie was upgraded yesterday. But I've lost 3 years of very nitpicky house design, many biillions of gold's worth in items (including my entire seer scroll collection)... Even if I re-place the plot, the design really isn't something that can be rebuilt; it took years just to find enough rubbles, flowstones, snow piles, etc to build it the first time.

Broadsword, I'm seriously unhappy here.

-Brian

 

[Scribbles]

Oh wow! I really Hope @Mesanna @Kyronix and @Bleak can help you. Let me know if there is anything i can to help.

 

[Slayvite]

I must admit I was surprised when I went to check on an IDOC yesterday that less than 24 hours (19 hours to be exact) before was only at the Greater stage. To my shock the house had already fallen and only bits of carpet were left at the location.
I just assumed the rules had been changed while I was away and it was now random.

 

[Bobar]

I must admit I was surprised when I went to check on an IDOC yesterday that less than 24 hours (19 hours to be exact) before was only at the Greater stage. To my shock the house had already fallen and only bits of carpet were left at the location.
I just assumed the rules had been changed while I was away and it was now random.

Because of the rather ridiculous 5 10 and 15 hour fall times I do not bother much these days but I have done a few and have seen this too. I know it is supposed to be random over 5 days and I have seen the Greatly stage last for nearly 24 hours but several times it has been MUCH less.It seems that the length of the stages may be more random than I thought it would be.

However I can give no explanation on the OP's post regarding a house simply going poof that has not been dropped by the owner.

 

[Captn Norrington]

So sorry to hear about this Brian....that house was one of a kind and pretty much irreplaceable. A guildies house on Atlantic went "poof" like this yesterday as well, it was right in front of my castle so I saw it every day, I looked at the house sign a few hours before it fell, and it wasn't even slightly worn. Luckily, the house didn't have alot in it so not much was lost but this is really strange and should not be happening, there is just no way for a house to go from perfectly fine, to dropping in less than a day.

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

 

[Merus]

Was the house in the OP on an active or inactive account?

 

[OREOGL]

This is what happens when they "fix" things that weren't broken.

Sorry for the loss man, that really blows.

@Mesanna please revert idocs timers to the original system.

5 hour idocs after 7 days.

No one wants a random drop, grubbers, or anything else associated with what you all put in.

On the other hand, my second account goes inactive in 2 days.
good luck with this mess.

 

[TimberWolf]

Personally I think random drops are great!!!! Keep you on your toes! Goes off looking for spot to place a new house

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Was the house in the OP on an active or inactive account?

Good Q, since Brian seems to be saying he was a co-owner?

 

[Merlin]

This is what happens when they "fix" things that weren't broken.

Sorry for the loss man, that really blows.

@Mesanna please revert idocs timers to the original system.

5 hour idocs after 7 days.

No one wants a random drop, grubbers, or anything else associated with what you all put in.

On the other hand, my second account goes inactive in 2 days.
good luck with this mess.

Previous IDOC system totally sucked when you knew the exact time of a drop. I like the system with variation, so you don't quite speak for everyone. There were TONS of debates on the IDOC timer again and again, so I know there are many opinions... but it's fool hardy to believe they're just going to go back to the original timer.

To the OP: bummer on losing the house. I can't imagine losing all that stuff. That really bites and if your accounts were all completely paid up (and if there are other people affected by this on your shard), the developer's should address this (or atleast respond back to you with personal email). However, I also do remember in the past you admitting that you played the pay 90 days card. If this happened on an account where you were doing that, its very possible that it could be apart of the reason.

 

[OREOGL]

Previous IDOC system totally sucked when you knew the exact time of a drop. I like the system with variation, so you don't quite speak for everyone. There were TONS of debates on the IDOC timer again and again, so I know there are many opinions... but it's fool hardy to believe they're just going to go back to the original timer.

To the OP: bummer on losing the house. I can't imagine losing all that stuff. That really bites and if your accounts were all completely paid up (and if there are other people affected by this on your shard), the developer's should address this (or atleast respond back to you with personal email). However, I also do remember in the past you admitting that you played the pay 90 days card. If this happened on an account where you were doing that, its very possible that it could be apart of the reason.

I've never heard of anyone complaining that they knew when the idoc was going to drop.

I don't see them going back either. Nothing like digging a hole they can't get out of unnecessarily.

But at least we know who we can thank for favoring a botched system leading to houses dropping randomly.

 

[chargar42]

Personally I think random drops are great!!!! Keep you on your toes! Goes off looking for spot to place a new house

Lets randomly drop your house today and see how you like it.

 

[OREOGL]

Lets randomly drop your house today and see how you like it.

I don't think that means he's in favor of the houses disappearing randomly.

They are intended to drop randomly through the idoc cycle.

Most people don't have the time to continuously check these u less you spend a great deal of time in UO.

Very few are in favor of
Someone losing their stuff.

 

[Assia Penryn]

This sucks. I hope EA will investigate this and provide us a good reason why it happened.

 

[BrianFreud]

They are intended to drop randomly through the idoc cycle.

Wrong.

This house never went idoc. I spent over an hour with a GM who confirmed that the house was not IDOC, and who also could not figure out how or why it did drop.

 

[Merlin]

I've never heard of anyone complaining that they knew when the idoc was going to drop.

I don't see them going back either. Nothing like digging a hole they can't get out of unnecessarily.

But at least we know who we can thank for favoring a botched system leading to houses dropping randomly.

Seriously, you never heard of anyone complaining about the old IDOC system and how the scripters with "new" accounts would just come and vacuum everything up (among other complaints)? It wasn't too long ago that this IDOC debate was coming up once or twice a week, and many threads would eventually get locked out and shut down for going off the rails and all over the place.

Some randomness in the IDOC system was needed. Certainly, the system is still not perfect and exploited by many, but it gave a chance to people who were willing to wait out a drop versus those who would just show up the minute a house dropped. I'm well aware that there are MANY opinions different than my own on this, but certainly don't fool yourself to thinking no one else felt the same as I.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Seriously, you never heard of anyone complaining about the old IDOC system and how the scripters with "new" accounts would just come and vacuum everything up (among other complaints)? It wasn't too long ago that this IDOC debate was coming up once or twice a week, and many threads would eventually get locked out and shut down for going off the rails and all over the place.

Some randomness in the IDOC system was needed. Certainly, the system is still not perfect and exploited by many, but it gave a chance to people who were willing to wait out a drop versus those who would just show up the minute a house dropped. I'm well aware that there are MANY opinions different than my own on this, but certainly don't fool yourself to thinking no one else felt the same as I.

The scripters still do that. They work 24/7, iuts the honest player who cant. Screwed the real player once again, in favor of scripters, just like with the ore/wood changes.

 

[OREOGL]

Seriously, you never heard of anyone complaining about the old IDOC system and how the scripters with "new" accounts would just come and vacuum everything up (among other complaints)? It wasn't too long ago that this IDOC debate was coming up once or twice a week, and many threads would eventually get locked out and shut down for going off the rails and all over the place.

Some randomness in the IDOC system was needed. Certainly, the system is still not perfect and exploited by many, but it gave a chance to people who were willing to wait out a drop versus those who would just show up the minute a house dropped. I'm well aware that there are MANY opinions different than my own on this, but certainly don't fool yourself to thinking no one else felt the same as I.

Last idoc I did was a keep and did not talk to a single person who was in favor of the current system.

Their fix was a for a symptom. Not solving the root cause which are the scripters themselves.

Time and money are a separate topic.

So in my mind it wasn't because
If when the houses were falling. It was because they don't have it in their arsenal to combat cheating effectively or could simply be they don't know how. Or in some other people's theories, want to because of population.

 

[Merus]

IMO, the reset to private was the only change that was needed to combat scripting. Yes, some scripters set the script to randomly pick up chests, but the vast majority that I saw when I did idocs were obviously set for targeted items... Certain rares out on display were the biggest targets... Now that the contents can't be seen, targeted scripting is much more difficult.

I never had a problem with people who knew their idoc times and showed up on schedule... I did my best to be one of them... And any serious idocer did too. Randomness never helps the dedicated player... ever. Do some more casual players come across the random idoc that has fallen now, sure they do... But odds are that the scripter was still there first. Randomness really only benefits the scripters. It is easy to set up a script to watch a house sign and play an alert... Even send out messages to multiple people and mediums when a house falls... Then let it watch 24/7 on a trial account. When it falls you simply recall in with your other account and loot away. I'm guessing the scripters now get FAR more idocs with MUCH less looting competition than they had before.

And to bring it full circle, we get the added bonus of issues like the OP has posted here.

 

[OREOGL]

Wrong.

This house never went idoc. I spent over an hour with a GM who confirmed that the house was not IDOC, and who also could not figure out how or why it did drop.

No it's not wrong. It's intended to drop during the idoc cycle.

I know you're frustrated but at least read the post.

I didn't imply your house was idoc.

 

[Longtooths]

@brianfreud2 was the account that held the house active or no?

 

[Merlin]

The scripters still do that. They work 24/7, iuts the honest player who cant. Screwed the real player once again, in favor of scripters, just like with the ore/wood changes.

I've been more successful at IDOCs under current system than under old system. Atleast now, if I want to wait one out, I can target an item or two and likely get something out of it. Last one I did, I got two bags full of Tokuno arties and about 30+ fountains of life. I knew I wasn't going to get the plot or the other more desirable items, but it was better than nothing. This simply wasn't the case back when we all knew the exact time of a drop and half the shard would be there. The "real player" wasn't any better off under the old system, IMHO. Only difference is putting in the time and effort to wait one out.

It was because they don't have it in their arsenal to combat cheating effectively or could simply be they don't know how. Or in some other people's theories, want to because of population.

Bingo! And no future change they could possibly make will effectively combat scripters completely. Atleast the change they did make prevented a half a dozen 'new accounts' from attending IDOC's.

People moaned plenty about the old system, too. So not liking the current system really isn't any different, especially here on Stratics where everyone seems to hate on everything no matter what.

 

[chargar42]

@brianfreud2 was the account that held the house active or no?

Immaterial if account was active or not...as long as it had not gone into idocing, house should never have fallen.

 

[OREOGL]

I've been more successful at IDOCs under current system than under old system. Atleast now, if I want to wait one out, I can target an item or two and likely get something out of it. Last one I did, I got two bags full of Tokuno arties and about 30+ fountains of life. I knew I wasn't going to get the plot or the other more desirable items, but it was better than nothing. This simply wasn't the case back when we all knew the exact time of a drop and half the shard would be there. The "real player" wasn't any better off under the old system, IMHO. Only difference is putting in the time and effort to wait one out.



Bingo! And no future change they could possibly make will effectively combat scripters completely. Atleast the change they did make prevented a half a dozen 'new accounts' from attending IDOC's.

People moaned plenty about the old system, too. So not liking the current system really isn't any different, especially here on Stratics where everyone seems to hate on everything no matter what.

I am all for the new player and private setting changes.

I know I don't have time to wait for up to 15 hours if I don't get the time right when it turns.

I used to do idocs regularly and enjoyed doing them. Now it's not worth the time.

Pretty much they went with the shotgun approach just to see what it hit and in turn had negative impact for a lot of players.

On the other hand there are still scripters that can just hit play and walk away. Though the privacy change defeated the script that allowed them to snatch the highest end item right away.

The rest of the system still clearly has some bugs to work out.

 

[DJAd]

Not cool. Sad to hear this Brian.

 

[Smoot]

Immaterial if account was active or not...as long as it had not gone into idocing, house should never have fallen.

if the account had lapsed and the houseing warehouse was bugged somehow (like with the rtb houses remaining) when the housing warehouse refreshed i can see the possibility of the house "poofing" rather than the normal idoc change. personally i would never trust the actual house sign. seen too many things happen.


Sorry to hear this happened Brian. take a few days, losing something that is irreplaceable is a very discouraging thing.

 

[Merlin]

Immaterial if account was active or not...as long as it had not gone into idocing, house should never have fallen.

VERY material if account was not active. I don't know any other business that would tolerate only paying every 3rd month. People doing this are taking a major risk, and in my opinion, lose their right to complain about what happens to their houses when the poop hits the fan.

I have second place holder account for a house. Maybe I'm a sucker for 'paying every month' (imagine that?!?), but its worth knowing I limit the chance of waking up to a rude surprise like a fallen house and lost valuables.

 

[Bobar]

The scripters still do that. They work 24/7, iuts the honest player who cant. Screwed the real player once again, in favor of scripters, just like with the ore/wood changes.

Whilst I totally agree with what you have said and while it is nothing to do with the OP's situation I have personally experienced one instance where it did not favour the scripter. I recently attended a castle idoc on Europa where I was fortunate enough to obtain the exact time it turned to idoc. It did not fall at 5 hours, not many do seem to fall at 5 and the 10 hour nominal time was at 5am which is server down time. Besides myself there were 3 hidden characters beneath the sign for the entire 10 hour period ( I had seen these same chars permanently at other idocs and at least they were always present whenever I checked). At server down they were certainly there so they were active - right?. As you do I kept checking for the server to return and when it did I logged in. How strange then that these 3 hidden characters never appeared and when it fell some 15 mins later I was still alone. There was not much in it but i removed what I wanted and when I left nobody else had appeared. If, as seems more than likely they were scripting, server down looks to stop it from running. Based on what I have seen I can come to no other conclusion.

 

[TimberWolf]

Lets randomly drop your house today and see how you like it.

way to totally misrepresent what was said.....back to the troll cave with you!!

 

[OREOGL]

Whilst I totally agree with what you have said and while it is nothing to do with the OP's situation I have personally experienced one instance where it did not favour the scripter. I recently attended a castle idoc on Europa where I was fortunate enough to obtain the exact time it turned to idoc. It did not fall at 5 hours, not many do seem to fall at 5 and the 10 hour nominal time was at 5am which is server down time. Besides myself there were 3 hidden characters beneath the sign for the entire 10 hour period ( I had seen these same chars permanently at other idocs and at least they were always present whenever I checked). At server down they were certainly there so they were active - right?. As you do I kept checking for the server to return and when it did I logged in. How strange then that these 3 hidden characters never appeared and when it fell some 15 mins later I was still alone. There was not much in it but i removed what I wanted and when I left nobody else had appeared. If, as seems more than likely they were scripting, server down looks to stop it from running. Based on what I have seen I can come to no other conclusion.

Since everyone is logged out at server down the scripted probably never logged back in and hit play.

Pretty sure this is a natural side effect of server maintenance.

However there have been more instances where I don't get logged out during maintenance. Not sure why, maybe an issue on their side.

 

[Scribbles]

Wrong Place for an argument guys. Ask Brian if he needs any help, or what exactly happened... Not the thread for an idoc debate etc...


Again Brian im really sorry and really hope @Mesanna can correct the issue.

 

[BrianFreud]

Agreed Scribbles.

To those who've offerred suport, thanks. To those wanting to argue about IDOCs, this is not the place.

Let me be more clear: the house never went into decay of any type. My main account (co-owned to all my houses, including that one) was walking in that house just the day before. Regardless of the sign, this would not have been possible (due to house going private and everyone being cleared) had the house been in any level of decay.

I also have had a GM come and confirm that the house was not in any stage of decay, though the GM could not explain what had happened to the house. Nothing was left on the ground. Nothing decayed and went to the cavern (I checked multiple times over several hours). No grubers were present/spawned.

The GM spent over an hour with me last night, yet could not figure out where the house had gone. Apparently someone did file a complaint against my house, and a different GM did send a "make changes within 7 days or be deleted" email, but as of when the house disappeared, only 1 day had passed, and noone has yet been able to explain what rule was actually being broken by the house. The GM, as well as those who I've so far shown that email, was at a loss to understand what it actually was saying.

At the moment, the GMs have escalated this to Mesanna.

 

[Riyana]

Indeed, please take the IDOC argument to a new thread. Thanks.

I'm really sorry to hear about your house, Brian.

I have not heard about this happening to anyone else, but I will keep my ears open.

 

[Assia Penryn]

Did your house have floors above the standard ones?

 

[Tina Small]

Brian, not that it helps you at all now, but back in early July I checked in periodically with a co-owner character on a house of mine on a different account that was going through the decay process. Based on what I saw and what one or two people posted when I mentioned it here in UHall, it seems that if the house was private when it started to decay, the house's access lists are not wiped, in spite of what we were told previously by Mesanna.

http://stratics.com/threads/co-owner-list-not-wiped-when-house-went-idoc.344384/

 

[OREOGL]

Discussing idocs is completely relevant since the house dropped and is most likely a result of recent changes.

Besides he directly refers to idocs and the changes in the original post!

 

[OREOGL]

Agreed Scribbles.

To those who've offerred suport, thanks. To those wanting to argue about IDOCs, this is not the place.

Let me be more clear: the house never went into decay of any type. My main account (co-owned to all my houses, including that one) was walking in that house just the day before. Regardless of the sign, this would not have been possible (due to house going private and everyone being cleared) had the house been in any level of decay.

I also have had a GM come and confirm that the house was not in any stage of decay, though the GM could not explain what had happened to the house. Nothing was left on the ground. Nothing decayed and went to the cavern (I checked multiple times over several hours). No grubers were present/spawned.

The GM spent over an hour with me last night, yet could not figure out where the house had gone. Apparently someone did file a complaint against my house, and a different GM did send a "make changes within 7 days or be deleted" email, but as of when the house disappeared, only 1 day had passed, and noone has yet been able to explain what rule was actually being broken by the house. The GM, as well as those who I've so far shown that email, was at a loss to understand what it actually was saying.

At the moment, the GMs have escalated this to Mesanna.

What was the complaint?

 

[Merlin]

Was the account holding this house fully paid every month?

 

[Lady Lavendar]

Brian, I'm terribly sorry for your loss.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

I think it's nuts also that a house stands if it's not being paid on. However having 2 accounts lapse because for some unknown reason my credit card didn't go through the EA system, and sometimes I go weeks without playing, it certainly freaked me out. I did get emails but I don't check that all that much either. A house should last like 30 days after you close an account, that seems reasonable. I've seen most of this weird stuff happen with folks playing the "3 months without paying game". As I recall this whole system started with the first Iraq war and the people going off to fight couldn't always keep up with their accounts. But in this day and age I don't think that may be necessary anymore with the 3 month thing. I keep 3 accounts steady and 2 of them are mostly just for housing and storage. I guess I'm a sap. But yeah the OP's situation sucks and it must be heart breaking.

 

[CovenantX]

The GM spent over an hour with me last night, yet could not figure out where the house had gone. Apparently someone did file a complaint against my house, and a different GM did send a "make changes within 7 days or be deleted" email, but as of when the house disappeared, only 1 day had passed, and noone has yet been able to explain what rule was actually being broken by the house. The GM, as well as those who I've so far shown that email, was at a loss to understand what it actually was saying.

At the moment, the GMs have escalated this to Mesanna.

That seems to be the problem more than likely, premature deletion. very unfortunate, hopefully it gets sorted out.
Why would someone complain about such things anyway, was the majority of your walls made of Rubble/deco (items that do not become transparent with CoT?).

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Something about "premature deletion" cracks me up Inside I'm just a 12 year old

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

... Apparently someone did file a complaint against my house, and a different GM did send a "make changes within 7 days or be deleted" email, but as of when the house disappeared, only 1 day had passed, and noone has yet been able to explain what rule was actually being broken by the house. The GM, as well as those who I've so far shown that email, was at a loss to understand what it actually was saying.

At the moment, the GMs have escalated this to Mesanna.

I think you have your answer. This sounds highly suspect...like the GM just deleted your house.

Sorry this happened but let's hope Mesanna can/will restore your house and items.

 

[BrianFreud]

That seems to be the problem more than likely, premature deletion. very unfortunate, hopefully it gets sorted out.
Why would someone complain about such things anyway, was the majority of your walls made of Rubble/deco (items that do not become transparent with CoT?).

Lol, yes. The entire house was built with rubble. But I also purposefully built it in an area where the house could not block anyone. Per Mesanna's rules about gozas and what is allowed, the house's decor was entirely legal.

 

[OREOGL]

Wait, people actually page because of circle of transparency?

I think they just wanted your stuff and paged to see if the house would drop.

Trolls.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Lol, yes. The entire house was built with rubble. But I also purposefully built it in an area where the house could not block anyone. Per Mesanna's rules about gozas and what is allowed, the house's decor was entirely legal.

That is so odd. I had no idea. Who cares if you have a rubble house? I mean what is the issue with that?

 

[Uriah Heep]

Something about "premature deletion" cracks me up Inside I'm just a 12 year old

LOL!! I had the same thought!

 

[Larisa]

Yeah there are a few houses built entirely of rubble, or 99% rubble and I think it's totally awesome!

And as long as it's not blocking anyone elses house it's fine. There's a house on ATL that's insane with goza floors...8 high I think? All different colors...lag central! BUT it's not blocking...here it is....still loading all the goza's onto my screen lol



same spot about 20 seconds later



And again on one of the floors....


But it's not blocking anything....those are all mannequins by the way....BUT if someone paged on this I'm sure they might delete a few floors but not the whole house!

Whoever's house this is, it's just amazing.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Yeah there are a few houses built entirely of rubble, or 99% rubble and I think it's totally awesome!

And as long as it's not blocking anyone elses house it's fine. There's a house on ATL that's insane with goza floors...8 high I think? All different colors...lag central! BUT it's not blocking...here it is....still loading all the goza's onto my screen lol


But it's not blocking anything....those are all mannequins by the way....BUT if someone paged on this I'm sure they might delete a few floors but not the whole house!

Whoever's house this is, it's just amazing.

I think it should be deleted cause it's God awful looking lol. But to each their own....

 

[BrianFreud]

Whoever's house this is, it's just amazing.

Thanks. It's not my house, but I built it for them. (They picked the colors )