[Discussion] An Informative Discussion [No Personal Attacks]

[Alexander of ATL.]

Okay guys,

Keep the attacks on the low. This is a discussion thread to get the general communities opinion on a matter that, to be honest, really aggravates me.

Should the name of a scammer be broadcast publicly?

Of course, the flaw in this is to know if the accusation is legitimate.

My opinion: A scam and or scammer should be known to the public. The people running this website disagrees. Why? Because of false identification and 'personal attack'.

• To accuse someone of scamming, there should be evidence to support the claim. A picture, video, conversation, and or audio. The system should be like the justice system where one is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, if someone has significant evidence to back the claim of one is a scammer, then it should be noted to the public.

Why you might ask?

• Prevent a future scam
• Acknowledge the scamming behavior to prevent it
• Cast light on an issue that is across most MMORPG's

Currently, this website protects scammers because out of fear of personal attacks. (this is not an attack on a mod and or person, it is just a widely-known observation) In doing so, there have been many cases of public scams of which nothing could be done. These scammers are let lose on these boards to cause chaos and manipulate the system.

Allowing scammers to freely advertise with the only intent to steal from players, will only bring destruction to an already flawed system. The question is, how long will we wait until the system collapses?

What is your opinion?

Note: This thread should not be locked up and or deleted. It's an informative topic that many can reason with. So if it does get thrown in the garbage, expect a few word exchanges from me.

 

[Peekay]

To be perfectly honest, I believe that self moderation of the COMMUNITY is what these forums need. Not a couple people who pick and choose what they feel should and shouldn't be said/visible as per the ToS (and sometimes not, but simply in their 'belief').

This is a community and it is one that would better thrive if the community itself was allowed to moderate itself in the sense of community preservation. If somebody is toxic, a scammer, or simply a nuisance to deal with, then it should be allowed to be said, if not to simply let people know what they could be getting themselves into, and even more so, maybe it'd change the way that toxic person expresses themselves here. Instead of them being a complete tool with a chip on their shoulder, they would see "Oh wow, nobody likes me because I'm a ****ing *******. Maybe I should change.".

*shrugs*

And I'm not saying any particular moderator is bad, or that they are as a whole, bad for the community. They play an important role here and in all communities and some of our Mods here are great people. But I just feel that a community should be able to be just that, a community. You know, one of those things where people help each other out, look out for the whole, and ultimately issue some sort of a PSA in regards to bad happenings, and not be reprimanded for it just because they named someone's newbie chr on a trial account that was being used for exploiting/scamming.

Edit: Hey look, I found another non-filtered word. @Captn Norrington

 

[Captn Norrington]

I'll notify the admins about the word you found @Peekay thanks for telling me.

I see nothing wrong with discussing this topic, however make sure no one gets accused of scamming, or anything else like that please. Also, please be aware that this topic has nothing to do with the trade forums themselves, or the moderators. We just enforce the rules, we do not create them. Only the owner of the website can change a rule like this one.

In addition to that, even if a person did have a picture/video etc. to prove someone was a scammer, there is no way for us to know whether the proof is real, or faked. People can edit pictures/video extremely easily and there is just about no way for us to tell which are real and which are not.

 

[Longtooths]

There is no way to prove anyone a scammer, evidence can be tampered with or made up. Secondly, do you think with all of the personalities on this forum that we could come to any kind of consensus on who the judge or jury will be?

 

[Smoot]

who the judge or jury will be?

i can vote for myself right?

 

[Jason-]

I just engaged in some conversation that got deleted that was along these lines and may have been the straw that inspired this conversation. I think in that particular case the community was dealing with it ourselves and not one single person was voting the other way lol. I think in certain cases the mods could go "Ok...this isn't getting out of hand, the community obviously is in agreement on this person or topic...and Im going to let this one go". If the rule was changed things would get out of hand really quickly and lines would be drawn in the sand between groups of friends and that would not be good for the community. But as I said in my final post that got deleted yesterday....I think it is fair for the community to deal with another member of the community when said community member is treating the rest of the community like crap....

 

[Restless]

it is difficult to stop people from scamming in this game. people can make a character with whatever name they want, they can create a new icq or stratics name. naming them publicly wouldnt particularly stop them from doing it, and sometimes could possibly smear the reputation of someone else if the scammer was assuming someone else's identity. id say to start a facebook page that names all scamming interaction and link it in your signature if it is information you feel needs to get out, but i agree with current stratics policy on the matter.

 

[ivester77]

this is a hard topic two edge sword cant really prove who scammed u unless the scammer admits it. also cant really prove who sells items for cash or who sells gold for cash unless they tell u on a 3rd party program but all are sup possibly illegal on stratics but all do some form of this on the rares forum maybe I am off course and need to close my mouth about this so i will, but when dealing with cash valued at .15 to .18 a mill and scammers and thieves things can always bring u down. believe me ive had my own mental break down over this same issue. ive had to charge billions to the game from a few scammers and deco thieves but after learning how the rares game goes and how to protect your self. trust no one I know whos a scammer that posts to this board or a thief because of the usual mo new account etc never seen them before never seen them in game etc . people who are on this rares forum recognize whos real and whos fake. protect yourself longtooth pampa and ar taught me that . JUST TOOK ME BILLIONS ON BILLIONS TO LEARN IT

 

[Flutter]

You can say "so and so scams be careful dealing with him I paid 250m for an item he didn't hand to me" and someone else can say "yeah that happened to me too!" and we can have a great big hug and all get along.
BUT ... we don't all get along.
Friends of so and so will step up and defend him. The post will be reported, the post will be removed.
Frankly unless someone is using your name and you post "Just please make sure it's me before handing over items or gold" it's just going to hear-say and that isn't proof in any court.

 

[Smoot]

Frankly unless someone is using your name and you post "Just please make sure it's me before handing over items or gold" it's just going to hear-say and that isn't proof in any court.

i find offense at this. Everyone has a right to any name they choose. if someone wants to make a character named Smoot and go around scamming people, what right do i have to say the name is "mine". Thats just as bad according to stratics tos as outing any other scammer. If i want to wear all pink and name myself flutter and scam people, thats my right as covered by the tos of stratics. you are welcome to call me out on the bookface, icq, uo forums, even could go twitter all your friends. but I for one WILL NOT have my stratics right to scam violated just because i make a name that is more well known as someone else.


this post was made mostly in jest but does kinda prove a point or something resembling half of one.

 

[Flutter]

i find offense at this. Everyone has a right to any name they choose. if someone wants to make a character named Smoot and go around scamming people, what right do i have to say the name is "mine". Thats just as bad according to stratics tos as outing any other scammer. If i want to wear all pink and name myself flutter and scam people, thats my right as covered by the tos of stratics. you are welcome to call me out on the bookface, icq, uo forums, even could go twitter all your friends. but I for one WILL NOT have my stratics right to scam violated just because i make a name that is more well known as someone else.


this post was made mostly in jest but does kinda prove a point or something resembling half of one.

That's why I said you can only say "Just please make sure it's me before handing over items or gold". Then you're not outing anyone calling out anyone by name or accusing anyone of anything.

 

[Peekay]

But I wanted to be flutter

I have the dress and tricorne picked out and everything.

 

[Deaol]

I try to scam people daily using a method of alternating the names of top posters on stratics or recent posters in the rares forums. I than promise them glacial hued unicorns riding rainbows and blaze 1/1 mesanna clothing items for billions upfront. I find this method works best in UO, especially on Atlantic in general chat.

* disclaimer, but it all seriousness I would like to know the "SCAM" that has provoked you to post such a thread. If your falling for the same old in UO, than heck, I don't think it deserves any attention. BUT If someone used a reputable member of the communities personal information and name (and put on a convincing act), than yes it should be brought to light. I think everyone uses ICQ / Teamspeak or Vent.. so it should not be that hard to verify someone is who they say they are in game.

 

[BrianFreud]

i find offense at this. Everyone has a right to any name they choose. if someone wants to make a character named Smoot and go around scamming people, what right do i have to say the name is "mine". Thats just as bad according to stratics tos as outing any other scammer. If i want to wear all pink and name myself flutter and scam people, thats my right as covered by the tos of stratics. you are welcome to call me out on the bookface, icq, uo forums, even could go twitter all your friends. but I for one WILL NOT have my stratics right to scam violated just because i make a name that is more well known as someone else.


this post was made mostly in jest but does kinda prove a point or something resembling half of one.

I get your point. I would argue though that there's a difference here.

On one hand, we have panoramix who has among his alt characters one named Jack Sparrow. That Jack Sparrow owns a vendor mall in Luna on Chessie. Then there's 4gregu who normally can be seen on any shard, including Chessie, also named Jack Sparrow. Both have a character with the name, but neither is intended to make people think they are anyone other than who they are. Panoramix isn't trying to convince people that he is 4gregu, nor is 4gregu trying to convince people that he is Panoramix. If you want to name a character Flutter and dress all in pink, or Brian DeSpell and dress all in blue, as long as you're not trying to convince people you are Flutter or myself, then that's your right. I know of two different Lady Lavenders and Lady Roses, among others; I just make sure to clarify which one I'm dealing with whenever I see them in game.

Then there's the other type of case. This is the one that Nails, myself (both as Brian DeSpell and as XShard Trader), and others have run into, where people name themselves 'our' name, dress identically... then represent themselves as being the RL person who has a well known character with that name. That last part is where the line is crossed.

 

[Olcher]

Then there's the other type of case. This is the one that Nails, myself (both as Brian DeSpell and as XShard Trader), and others have run into, where people name themselves 'our' name, dress identically... then represent themselves as being the RL person who has a well known character with that name. That last part is where the line is crossed.

Yep. Along those lines there's a group of players that run around with my name, or some alteration/abbreviation of it like [OLCH], as their guild tag at EM events. Some even run my exact or very similar character names under this guild tag too. They blatantly multibox and run every 3rd party program under the sun trying to hide their identity and impersonate me. I've even been told some of them are very vocal on the Rares Forums and a few others are avoiding Stratics bans to sell items.

This is a community and it is one that would better thrive if the community itself was allowed to moderate itself in the sense of community preservation. If somebody is toxic, a scammer, or simply a nuisance to deal with, then it should be allowed to be said, if not to simply let people know what they could be getting themselves into, and even more so, maybe it'd change the way that toxic person expresses themselves here. Instead of them being a complete tool with a chip on their shoulder, they would see "Oh wow, nobody likes me because I'm a ****ing *******. Maybe I should change.".

I agree. For my specific example, everyone already knows who this group if players is, but for the newer collectors or those who don't do events as much they should be informed. I think, and don't quote me on this, but there's even dozens of YouTube videos of these players?

 

[Scribbles]

I agree with @Longtooths on this one.

More so, There are plenty of ways to prevent scamming by following a couple rules.

1. use a broker for any and all trade above the games capacity.
2. Know what you are buying
3. Do not be hasty with a trade, be keen and careful like you are shopping in a third world countries market place.
4. Did i say use a broker? Most are free, able and willing to help. And some even like doing it... @Captn Norrington

Notice how none of the players that have been around long enough get scammed? We follow some very basic rules and we walk away from a deal if there is a chance that we could get scammed. Leave nothing to chance you will never get scammed.

 

[Peekay]

I agree. For my specific example, everyone already knows who this group if players is, but for the newer collectors or those who don't do events as much they should be informed. I think, and don't quote me on this, but there's even dozens of YouTube videos of these players?

I agree, I think we all do know about this group. I was really disappointed when they stopped making their videos

 

[Lt.Snuggles]

I agree, I think we all do know about this group. I was really disappointed when they stopped making their videos

i agree! why do you think they stopped making videos?

 

[Smoot]

*waits for old vet to chime in*

 

[BrianFreud]

You know, this is normally the point where, 1 or 2 posts later, a thread gets locked... Maybe we can set the videos to one side for now, and avoid the lock?

 

[Deaol]

Don't need to search the videos up and get the thread locked but I took this from another thread for reference...

 

[Peekay]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

oh god i almost just died irl.

 

[Scribbles]

Best part is the bottle of lotion on the desk.

 

[Flutter]

Im blind now. Thanks a lot. Does Windows 10 have braile?

 

[Nemesis]

Although I'm sure this has great intentions, too many things could go wrong by broadcasting names. If UO had unique names associated with characters, probably be a different story.

Say you do call out a scammer - maybe they try to retaliate back and call you the scammer. Evidence is easy to manipulate. Hell, I could call everyone in this forum a scammer and create all these pretty pictures to "prove" it.

I think more harm than good would happen by naming potential scammers, as I can guarantee you that people will try to falsely convict people and cause drama (in a forum that is already filled with drama)

I think an optimal solution is to explain any scam that occurred so others don't fall for it.

By doing this, doesn't it nearly accomplish the same goal? Yes, some people may or may not get burned by a new scam somehow - but if you follow some of the methods outlined here when trading with people, and people are aware of scams that are out there, I don't understand how you could get scammed.

This is a game. People here take it far too seriously.

 

[BrianFreud]

I'd agree with you Nemesis. We used to have sticky threads for known dupes, etc. Even for those who are around all the time, it's easy to miss things - I've had to remind several people just in the past month about the skull mugs not all being server birth, and I always end up having to search to remind myself which side the "good" handle side is. Maybe it's time we re-add sticky some threads for known scams (not scammers!), dupes, and exploit-created items.

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

Man... that vacation was great.

Okay, the intention of this post wasn't because I got scammed. I was never scammed. The origins of this topic came about with a recent encounter a few days ago. I won't go into detail because I'm not allowed to.

However, it was a general question I wanted to ask the public and see what the general consensus is regarding the subject. I made the post out of anger, and anger alone penned my post. Now that I've cooled down, I want to explain in further.

• I agree with you that a system to call out scammers will have many flaws.
• I didn't take into consideration of easily falsifying evidence. [I'm a pro filmmaker and video editor - I should have known that]
• I just don't think it is fair for the public to allow a scam to take place... and when calling it out... you get in trouble.

Furthermore, I asked the question to see if I was alone on the matter and or I was looking at it wrong.


[This post, while containing a little sarcasm, is in no way a personal attack]

 

[Herman]

A little bit off topic

I think the game could do a bit to prevent scammers and cheaters

If it was easy to see what char belong to what acc (lets say an id number before your name all 6 chars on that acc would have the same one) I think alot of scammers and cheaters would think twice befor scamming knowing that they would give the entire acc a bad rep

Also it would be nice to be able to ignore an entire acc

 

[Smoot]

This is a game. People here take it far too seriously.

games are part of modern life that many people do consider an important and valuable recreational outlet which involves everything from creative design, taking out frutrastion, primal instincts, sense of accomplishment and failure, as well as a way to deal with emotions. Whether this is the healthiest way to meet those needs of life is besides the case. Its what millions of first world countries citizens have adopted as standard practice. When another player steals from them, they are effecting that persons life even tho its "just a game". In real life, or in a game, robbing someone of sense of security, or basic trust in humankind is a serious thing. Plus, there are now precedents for thefts in video games being prosecuted, the offenders being sentenced to restitution and even jail time. So yes people do take it seriously, and the virtual world is increasingly bridging over to the physical world. 20 years ago i would disagree, but computer games (especially an mmorgp) have become an integral aspect of modern life that hold as much value and meaning to many as activities and people in real life. To varying extents, what we do in game is an extention of our selves. I hope you will understand that one day. It saddens me to see someones trust in humanity be destroyed because of a scammer or thiefs lack of basic morals and empathy for other people they meet in game, or in real life.

 

[Smoot]

A little bit off topic

I think the game could do a bit to prevent scammers and cheaters

If it was easy to see what char belong to what acc (lets say an id number before your name all 6 chars on that acc would have the same one) I think alot of scammers and cheaters would think twice befor scamming knowing that they would give the entire acc a bad rep

Also it would be nice to be able to ignore an entire acc

there are actually unique character ids that were implemented a few years ago. @Mesanna - It would be highly advantageous, (given we arent limited to actual unique character names) if that ID were also available via the character paperdoll, the searchuo character / guild lookup site, as well as the harassment / reporting feature. That way there would be no qualms over the identity of a reported scammer as long as the scam took place at least partially in game via a character. Even if stratics did not re-think its stance on protection of scammers / cheaters, it would be very useful identifying what characters to look out for, in game or to be posted on the sites that do allow for reporting of known scammers.

 

[BrianFreud]

Forget identifying scammers; it'd be even more useful as a way to say "this is a easy way to ID the real me".

 

[Zandor]

I would have to say that if someone is patient enough to sit at my house and wait for me to release something during deco, then they have earned this item! Also, if I give someone gold in hopes that afterward they give me an item, then I don't feel I have been "scammed". I was robbed, there is a difference. Thieves have played a big part in this game for years and some people enjoy being that kind of person. I do not, but I don't hold their choice of profession against them. Now if someone is using illegal means to scam players then I think its a major problem that needs addressed. I admire the dedication some of these ppl put in to their planning on how to rob ppl. They are in some instances way more dedicated in the game than I am. Do I agree with their way of life, absolutely not, but as in real life not everyone is honorable. I still put a lot of faith in ppl tho and will continue to do so.

 

[Herman]

I would have to say that if someone is patient enough to sit at my house and wait for me to release something during deco, then they have earned this item! Also, if I give someone gold in hopes that afterward they give me an item, then I don't feel I have been "scammed". I was robbed, there is a difference. Thieves have played a big part in this game for years and some people enjoy being that kind of person. I do not, but I don't hold their choice of profession against them. Now if someone is using illegal means to scam players then I think its a major problem that needs addressed. I admire the dedication some of these ppl put in to their planning on how to rob ppl. They are in some instances way more dedicated in the game than I am. Do I agree with their way of life, absolutely not, but as in real life not everyone is honorable. I still put a lot of faith in ppl tho and will continue to do so.

In all years i played UO it is only one type of player that always got the bad deal and that is the guy/gal that always play by the rules (the written rules and the unspken rules) maybe it is time for them to win

 

[Nemesis]

games are part of modern life that many people do consider an important and valuable recreational outlet which involves everything from creative design, taking out frutrastion, primal instincts, sense of accomplishment and failure, as well as a way to deal with emotions. Whether this is the healthiest way to meet those needs of life is besides the case. Its what millions of first world countries citizens have adopted as standard practice. When another player steals from them, they are effecting that persons life even tho its "just a game". In real life, or in a game, robbing someone of sense of security, or basic trust in humankind is a serious thing. Plus, there are now precedents for thefts in video games being prosecuted, the offenders being sentenced to restitution and even jail time. So yes people do take it seriously, and the virtual world is increasingly bridging over to the physical world. 20 years ago i would disagree, but computer games (especially an mmorgp) have become an integral aspect of modern life that hold as much value and meaning to many as activities and people in real life. To varying extents, what we do in game is an extention of our selves. I hope you will understand that one day. It saddens me to see someones trust in humanity be destroyed because of a scammer or thiefs lack of basic morals and empathy for other people they meet in game, or in real life.

Thank you for taking the time to describe exactly what a game entails. I however prefer the definition on Wikipedia:

A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.

If you are not enjoying a game for whatever reason, or someone is causing you not to enjoy it ---- then it is your decision if you want to continue playing or not.

I'm pretty sure in this game, stealing is part of it --- a valid skill. People may also use in-game mechanics that could be considered a scam. Although it is unfortunate, it is no different than real life.

I compare this to the teenage boys that yell at my through a microphone when I play any game on X-box Live.....when they yell obscenities about my mother and what they did to her, I try to take it with a grain of salt.

I go back to my original statement, and I hope you can understand this ---- it is a game. People take it too seriously. Hearing people having a breakdown over this makes me feel sad for them.

 

[Smoot]

@Nemesis

while i agree with you somewhat, a "game" is an extremely broad term. An in depth mmo isnt exactly the same as checkers, tic-tac toe, or an fps game that really doesnt involve the person much except when their actually in the game.

I have never been scammed, or stolen from (except for that one time i gave my quiver of infinitey to some guy at brit bank to dye and he recalled off and never came back) I'm probably the first to say to someone who was scammed "served you right, you were stupid"

However, its a fact we're entering into the modern age of gaming. People being prosecuted for the theft & resulting profits from virtual worlds is simple fact and matter of precedent. Its different than it was, especially in a game like UO currently is. Alex has a very valid point that stratics tos does protect illegal activity. It would be a shame that because of the ease / lax enforcement and casual views on virtual theft that someone finds thereselves in a very unfortunate legal situation because they thought "its just a game"

some documentation:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...ling_amulet_and_shield_in_virtual_world_.html
http://fusion.net/story/137157/two-...or-stealing-virtual-items-from-other-players/

in the legal world, its cases like these that lead to floodgates breaking in respect to how the law handles future cases. itll be very interesting to see what the practice, and punishment, for theft of virtual items looks like in the next 5 years.

 

[Longtooths]

Reputations always catch up to you, game or not....just sayin'

 

[Peekay]

@Nemesis

while i agree with you somewhat, a "game" is an extremely broad term. An in depth mmo isnt exactly the same as checkers, tic-tac toe, or an fps game that really doesnt involve the person much except when their actually in the game.

I have never been scammed, or stolen from (except for that one time i gave my quiver of infinitey to some guy at brit bank to dye and he recalled off and never came back) I'm probably the first to say to someone who was scammed "served you right, you were stupid"

However, its a fact we're entering into the modern age of gaming. People being prosecuted for the theft & resulting profits from virtual worlds is simple fact and matter of precedent. Its different than it was, especially in a game like UO currently is. Alex has a very valid point that stratics tos does protect illegal activity. It would be a shame that because of the ease / lax enforcement and casual views on virtual theft that someone finds thereselves in a very unfortunate legal situation because they thought "its just a game"

some documentation:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...ling_amulet_and_shield_in_virtual_world_.html
http://fusion.net/story/137157/two-...or-stealing-virtual-items-from-other-players/

in the legal world, its cases like these that lead to floodgates breaking in respect to how the law handles future cases. itll be very interesting to see what the practice, and punishment, for theft of virtual items looks like in the next 5 years.

Damn, and here I have friends who are only responsible for small things like this, http://www.gamebreaker.tv/news-main...enant-supercarrier-worth-approx-8k-in-combat/


and then there is stuff like this in that same game. http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-events/

 

[panoramix2009]

I get your point. I would argue though that there's a difference here.

On one hand, we have panoramix who has among his alt characters one named Jack Sparrow. That Jack Sparrow owns a vendor mall in Luna on Chessie. Then there's 4gregu who normally can be seen on any shard, including Chessie, also named Jack Sparrow. Both have a character with the name, but neither is intended to make people think they are anyone other than who they are. Panoramix isn't trying to convince people that he is 4gregu, nor is 4gregu trying to convince people that he is Panoramix. If you want to name a character Flutter and dress all in pink, or Brian DeSpell and dress all in blue, as long as you're not trying to convince people you are Flutter or myself, then that's your right. I know of two different Lady Lavenders and Lady Roses, among others; I just make sure to clarify which one I'm dealing with whenever I see them in game.

Then there's the other type of case. This is the one that Nails, myself (both as Brian DeSpell and as XShard Trader), and others have run into, where people name themselves 'our' name, dress identically... then represent themselves as being the RL person who has a well known character with that name. That last part is where the line is crossed.

i am panoramix on chessy yes but is not me jack sparrow on chessy is my wife and she not have jack sparrow on atl

 

[Jason-]

@Nemesis man you can't talk about UO and give it the ole "Its just a game". Maybe if you started last year that works....but for the majority of the people still playing this game it is much more than that. Im a super busy person as a lot of us are...but we find time for the things that are important to us and UO is that for just about every person still playing it. It is just a game, but its a game that has been a part of our lives for over 15 years...and you don't do anything for 15 years and not care about it.

Now, if I got robbed by someone in my house I wouldn't cry for a week...but I would be pretty pissed off for the next hour that some low life got me. If someone stole a bag with just 5 items in it...that bag could be worth a billion gold which is equal in rl value to my electricity bill lol....so yea that sucks. Lastly...the game does make the thief skills, but they were not made with the intentions for people to walk in your house and take advantage of you while you are decoing the place. That is and always will be morally and possibly legally wrong.

 

[Zandor]

Legally wrong Jason? Really? For taking an item that is unlocked laying on the ground? Also, stealing was absolutely created to take stuff from players. And lets not forget that everything in your house could be taken if you let the wrong person in or lost your key. Uo has came a long way since then with security and have implemented a lot of safeguards for this but some have to be done by the player thru deco, customizing, etc... Sometimes you just have to use a bit of common sense when decorating, especially if you have a Luna house on Atlantic.

This does not mean I don't feel bad for people who lose stuff. I have lost more than my fair share over the years, but most of it could have been prevented. I feel a lot worse for people who lose stuff to exploits than from those that get caught slipping!

 

[lineman]

Things have not changed much around here I see. Stratics has and will always be a place you cant really speak your mind. Fortunately there is a Stratics though.

 

[Nemesis]

@Nemesis man you can't talk about UO and give it the ole "Its just a game". Maybe if you started last year that works....but for the majority of the people still playing this game it is much more than that. Im a super busy person as a lot of us are...but we find time for the things that are important to us and UO is that for just about every person still playing it. It is just a game, but its a game that has been a part of our lives for over 15 years...and you don't do anything for 15 years and not care about it.

Now, if I got robbed by someone in my house I wouldn't cry for a week...but I would be pretty pissed off for the next hour that some low life got me. If someone stole a bag with just 5 items in it...that bag could be worth a billion gold which is equal in rl value to my electricity bill lol....so yea that sucks. Lastly...the game does make the thief skills, but they were not made with the intentions for people to walk in your house and take advantage of you while you are decoing the place. That is and always will be morally and possibly legally wrong.

People have their own perception when it comes to anything - and some may feel stronger than others. People keep quoting me saying "it's just a game" ---- I actually said "this is a game" -- i'm not down playing what it is, just saying that people around here seem to take something that is supposed to be considered an enjoyable and leisurely activity too seriously.

I've played for many, many years. I do enjoy this game, otherwise I wouldn't continue to play it. However, I'm not going to let it effect my overall emotions or happiness.

The last situation you describe has been in the game since the inception. In fact, way back when, people would hide outside of a house to ambush the owner to take the key to their house and loot the valuables inside. This can now easily be avoided by using "Detect Hidden" before locking down anything important, or you can turn your house private. There are some simple things that can be down to avoid any sort of scams and thievery that are within game mechanics...

Same goes with unlocking items --- you can now easily click on an item to retrieve it, as opposed to having to use the command and picking it up. The game has adapted to help resolve a lot of these issues over time.

 

[Nemesis]

Things have not changed much around here I see. Stratics has and will always be a place you cant really speak your mind. Fortunately there is a Stratics though.

Speak your mind within reason.

 

[Jason-]

Legally wrong Jason? Really? For taking an item that is unlocked laying on the ground? Also, stealing was absolutely created to take stuff from players. And lets not forget that everything in your house could be taken if you let the wrong person in or lost your key. Uo has came a long way since then with security and have implemented a lot of safeguards for this but some have to be done by the player thru deco, customizing, etc... Sometimes you just have to use a bit of common sense when decorating, especially if you have a Luna house on Atlantic.

This does not mean I don't feel bad for people who lose stuff. I have lost more than my fair share over the years, but most of it could have been prevented. I feel a lot worse for people who lose stuff to exploits than from those that get caught slipping!

I stated the Legally wrong due to Smoots quotes and the evidence to support them. And yes stealing was absolutely created to steal stuff from players...out of their bags even. And you are very correct about the old school house stealing. UO a very long time ago stated that they wanted to provide ways to safeguard you in your own home...so they took steps to do so. I take advantage of them and I have never been robbed in my own house. But just because at one time when the game was in its infancy you could do that does not mean that what we are discussing here is ok. Thieving was not created for people to steal things from you while your goofing around in your house....you don't even need stealing to do this lol. As a matter of fact you need no skill to do this. All it takes is someone with little moral values and knowledge of players and housing rules(Homes with Vendors cant go private).

I am comfortable with agreeing to disagree on this subject. I don't remember the exact words stated by UO/Origin/EA or whoever it was...but they felt the same way as I do. And I would imagine that the majority feel like that is in the same ballpark as exploiting and Scamming.

 

[Flutter]

Things have not changed much around here I see. Stratics has and will always be a place you cant really speak your mind. Fortunately there is a Stratics though.

Are you still playing lineman? Did you quit UO or just Stratics?

 

[Athelas]

[I'm a pro filmmaker and video editor - I should have known that]]

Oh? On what?

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

Oh? On what?

I'm not a pro in comparison to let say Kevin Costner.

What I do and what I have done is advertisements/commercials with local businesses. Advertisement for surrounding Universities Clubs/Sports/ etc in my residing area. I have also produced many feature films that I have sent off to major film competitions throughout the United States. Out of the competitions, I have received rewards and scholarships to go towards a degree I wish to aspire in the future. I have also talked to and conducted interviews with actors in regards to an actors role in full featured films and their advice to young and ambitious actors - one being Scott Wilson, which portrayed Hershel from the Walking Dead.

Currently, I am creating a film project to which I will put forth in competition of the "Student Academy Awards" hosted by the Oscars if I get accepted into the Film School that is eligible to compete.

Aside from basic competitions projects and student advertisement programs, I have also created many short films with friends that are also aspiring filmmakers.

Currently, I am on my way to earn a degree in Computer Science at a University I have chosen to go to. Once I complete this degree, I will the move to another University and aspire to earn a degree in Filmmaking/Acting.

So while I'm not a pro as in a famous Hollywood Producer, I am pro in the aspect of doing the job assigned in a professional manner while demonstrating professional quality. I'm working my way up the ladder and will hopefully compete with the big dogs.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[Athelas]

I'm not a pro in comparison to let say Kevin Costner.

What I do and what I have done is advertisements/commercials with local businesses. Advertisement for surrounding Universities Clubs/Sports/ etc in my residing area. I have also produced many feature films that I have sent off to major film competitions throughout the United States. Out of the competitions, I have received rewards and scholarships to go towards a degree I wish to aspire in the future. I have also talked to and conducted interviews with actors in regards to an actors role in full featured films and their advice to young and ambitious actors - one being Scott Wilson, which portrayed Hershel from the Walking Dead.

Currently, I am creating a film project to which I will put forth in competition of the "Student Academy Awards" hosted by the Oscars if I get accepted into the Film School that is eligible to compete.

Aside from basic competitions projects and student advertisement programs, I have also created many short films with friends that are also aspiring filmmakers.

Currently, I am on my way to earn a degree in Computer Science at a University I have chosen to go to. Once I complete this degree, I will the move to another University and aspire to earn a degree in Filmmaking/Acting.

So while I'm not a pro as in a famous Hollywood Producer, I am pro in the aspect of doing the job assigned in a professional manner while demonstrating professional quality. I'm working my way up the ladder and will hopefully compete with the big dogs.

I hope this answers your question.

Just curious, I am a Locations Manager, hence why I asked. I bounced around in different departments for years. Reason I asked is your terminology is not used in features or Tv so I was curious as to what exactly you worked on. Nothing wrong with student films, you are the future.

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Alexander of ATL. I think what you are trying to do is great and maybe UOStratics may let people warn others about a SCAM without going into to much detail but people need to understand that scamming is legal in UO and always has been. You may want to refer to this http://help.ea.com/en/article/safeguarding-from-scams/ Please understand that just because I am posting this does not mean I condone it in any way but openly accusing someone of scamming could and does ruin their reputation. If someone suspects that they were scammed with an exploit then report it immediately to a GM so they can investigate.