• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

The latest ToS is o.k.ing playing on free shards?!

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Just read the latest Terms of Service before agreeing to it (I do weird things like that). Is it really saying that play on non EA game sites is o.k. to do?

If so, hopefully Stratics will allow us to name and discuss the various free shards in these forums. I'd love to find one that doesn't come with malware.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Just read the latest Terms of Service before agreeing to it (I do weird things like that). Is it really saying that play on non EA game sites is o.k. to do?

If so, hopefully Stratics will allow us to name and discuss the various free shards in these forums. I'd love to find one that doesn't come with malware.
Provide a link to the ToS in question if you would.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
Never Mind. I found it, while EA's Terms of Service doesn't limit it, Ultima Online's Rules of Conduct does, http://help.ea.com/en/article/ultima-online-service-rules-of-conduct/

For it to be acceptable here on Stratics, at this point in time, content related to UO has to fall in line with both EA's Terms of Service and Ultima Online's Rules of Conduct. Remember while Broadsword is effectively managing UO, it is still EA's property.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Never Mind. I found it, while EA's Terms of Service doesn't limit it, Ultima Online's Rules of Conduct does, http://help.ea.com/en/article/ultima-online-service-rules-of-conduct/

For it to be acceptable here on Stratics, at this point in time, content related to UO has to fall in line with both EA's Terms of Service and Ultima Online's Rules of Conduct. Remember while Broadsword is effectively managing UO, it is still EA's property.
i didnt see anything in that tos that would prevent freeshards, since any reference to what free shards are based on says "unless authorized by EA" therefore, if EAs new tos has authorized it, the UO tos allows it.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
also, from what ive seen posted on the boards, the "agreement" currently with broadsword is not so much official rules, but more like a gentleman's handshake. technically stratics isnt legally or officially bond at all to what can be discussed here.

they way i see it, Broadsword needs an outlet for their news and access to players. thats stratics. nothing else really exists. the only risk stratics has to broadsword totally abandoning the minimal dev involvement we get here would be if broadsword made their own site, which from what history has shown us is very unlikely.

So it basically comes down to, pretty sure we could talk about and highlight freeshards and broadsword would be forced out of necessity to continue the very loose relationship they currently have with stratics.

*shrugs*
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
EA ToS
"- Attempt to use EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled or authorized by Electronic Arts. Any such use is at your own risk and may subject you to additional or different terms. EA takes no responsibility for your use of EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled by Electronic Arts."
and
13. Software, Utilities and Tools

EA Services may require or allow you to download software, software updates or patches, or other utilities and tools from EA or its licensors onto your computer, entertainment system or device ("EA Software"). EA grants to you a non-exclusive, limited license to use EA Software solely for the purpose stated by EA at the time the EA Software is made available to you. If an End User License Agreement or End User Access And License Agreement is provided with the EA Software, your use of the EA Software is subject to the terms of that license agreement. You may not sub-license, or charge others to use or access EA Software. You may not translate, reverse-engineer, reverse-compile or decompile, disassemble or make derivative works from EA Software. You may not modify EA Software or use it in any way not expressly authorized in writing by EA. You understand that EA's introduction of various technologies may not be consistent across all platforms and that the performance of EA Software and related EA Services may vary depending on your computer and other equipment.

From time to time, Electronic Arts may provide you with updates or modifications to EA Software. You understand that certain updates and modifications may be required in order to continue use the EA Software and EA Services.

So unless Free Shards have it in writing they are still in violation and not authorized by EA to use.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
i didnt see anything in that tos that would prevent freeshards, since any reference to what free shards are based on says "unless authorized by EA" therefore, if EAs new tos has authorized it, the UO tos allows it.
It looks like EA introduced a universal ToS for all it's online game services, that would be MMO's and non-MMO's. UO though does have a separate RoC which I linked. In that RoC it has two lines that stand out.

  • You will not actively encourage other players to violate the Terms of Service or Rules of Conduct.
  • You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Electronic Arts to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found here.

But you are right, Stratics has no formal agreement with Broadsword, but we do attempt to honor the agreement we had in the past. Until that decision, which isn't mine or any other staff member other than the sites owner's, changes naming and actively promoting Freeshards isn't allowed.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
  • You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Electronic Arts to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found here.
just saying, if EA wrote in a new tos that freeshards are allowed, wouldnt that negate that whole bullet since they DO have written permission?

im no lawyer, and i dont know whats this new language that could encompass free shards actually is, just observing the apparent if in fact the new tos allows for emulators somehow.

I get what you mean tho. Mesanna hates freeshards. everyone knows that, so even if EA allows it wouldnt be wise for stratics to start up on them unless they want to totally piss her off.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
just saying, if EA wrote in a new tos that freeshards are allowed, wouldnt that negate that whole bullet since they DO have written permission?

im no lawyer, and i dont know whats this new language that could encompass free shards actually is, just observing the apparent if in fact the new tos allows for emulators somehow.

I get what you mean tho. Mesanna hates freeshards. everyone knows that, so even if EA allows it wouldnt be wise for stratics to start up on them unless they want to totally piss her off.
If the new ToS Allowed for it, but there's a catch in the new ToS

4. Use of Content and Entitlements/General License Restrictions

EA grants you a personal, limited, non-exclusive license to use Content and Entitlements to which you have access for your personal, private, non-commercial, non-transferable, limited uses solely as set forth herein and as set forth in any additional Terms applicable to the EA Services accessed by you. Content and Entitlements and all other intellectual property rights in or on EA Services as well as the products and services offered through EA Services, are owned by EA or EA's third party licensors and are protected by United States and International copyright, trade dress, patent, and trademark laws, international conventions, and other laws protecting intellectual property and related proprietary rights. You may not copy, access, or download any Content and/or Entitlements from an EA Service unless you are expressly authorized to do so. In addition, unless expressly authorized by EA, you may not distribute, publicly perform or display, lease, sell, transmit, transfer, publish, edit, copy, create derivative works from, rent, sub-license, decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise make unauthorized use of Content or Entitlements. Any commercial use is prohibited. You agree not to remove, obscure, or alter copyright, patent, trademark, or other proprietary rights notices affixed to Content. Your rights are subject to your compliance with these Terms of Service as well as any other applicable Terms.
UO has additional terms that prevent it, in addition since Freeshards are using the Client, art they are technically derivative works. The legal definition of a Derivative Work, at least in the US is:
A derivative work is a work based on or derived from one or more already exist- ing works. Common derivative works include translations, musical arrange- ments, motion picture versions of literary material or plays, art reproductions, abridgments, and condensations of preexisting works.
So the ToS does prohibit them, but doesn't do it directly as had been done in the past. There is also the bit about other applicable Terms, which would be UO's RoC.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If the new ToS Allowed for it, but there's a catch in the new ToS



UO has additional terms that prevent it, in addition since Freeshards are using the Client, art they are technically derivative works. The legal definition of a Derivative Work, at least in the US is:

I see, but wasnt the source code that freeshards are based of off released to the public by EA in 1998 under the GNU General Public License? So EA did in fact expressly authorize the program that freeshards came from. According to the law, because they did that, they cant just go back and claim everything that came from that authorization is now voided. Im sure EA regrets authorizing use of the code back in the 90s, but they did and cant just take that back. This would only apply to classic client of course as it was the only thing that existed when EA gave out the rights and the code.

So it looks like the new terms of service basically changed nothing in the area of freeshards from what we legally had before.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
I see, but wasnt the source code that freeshards are based of off released to the public by EA in 1998 under the GNU General Public License? So EA did in fact expressly authorize the program that freeshards came from. According to the law, because they did that, they cant just go back and claim everything that came from that authorization is now voided. Im sure EA regrets authorizing use of the code back in the 90s, but they did and cant just take that back.

So it looks like the new terms of service basically changed nothing in the area of freeshards from what we legally had before.
Actually UO Emulators first showed up during Beta in late 1996 early 1997, well before the goof that happened with the T2A beta disks.
 

callum_fitzhugh

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
just saying, if EA wrote in a new tos that freeshards are allowed, wouldnt that negate that whole bullet since they DO have written permission?

im no lawyer, and i dont know whats this new language that could encompass free shards actually is, just observing the apparent if in fact the new tos allows for emulators somehow.

I get what you mean tho. Mesanna hates freeshards. everyone knows that, so even if EA allows it wouldnt be wise for stratics to start up on them unless they want to totally piss her off.
I cant see any good reason to talk about free-shards here anyhow. There are sites for that elsewhere I assume. And why piss off your one big supporter @Mesanna by even indulging free shard stuff?
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@Nexus

anyway always interesting discussion to see how games handle user created servers. we went from game companies trying to claim exclusive monopolies on the code, (which obviously never really works) to new games like "Shards Online" openly embracing user created servers and helping them, so games that take this approach will never run into problems created by trying to exterminate, or just living with user created servers.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I cant see any good reason to talk about free-shards here anyhow. There are sites for that elsewhere I assume. And why piss off your one big supporter @Mesanna by even indulging free shard stuff?
well, i dont play freeshards. probably never will. But one day the UO that we talk about here will be cancelled. The majority of UO players wont be effeted by this, because those freeshards will remain in operation. I think its worth discussing from time to time if when EA UO ends, will stratics simply end as well? Like Nexus said earlier, thats a decision only the site owner could make, and thankful i will never have to.
 

Tjalle

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
why would we want to see free shard discussions here. why would someone want post about it here? doesn't sound like a wise move, just my thoughts.
Yeah, I´ve always wondered about that as well.
We just risk having EA UO players read about it, decide they want to try it out and then stay there and close their EA UO account(s). A loss for us.
 

TimberWolf

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yeah, I´ve always wondered about that as well.
We just risk having EA UO players read about it, decide they want to try it out and then stay there and close their EA UO account(s). A loss for us.

well yes if you live in a society afraid of competition, then your views make perfect sense. But maybe having players discuss them openly and honestly would give Broadsword and others a kick in the pants to improve the present game. Maybe competition in a free market system is what drives progress and improvements. Maybe Stratics has a responsibility to the gaming public to encourage these discussions!
 

Zuckuss

Order | Chaos
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This discussion has been mostly about the interpretation of Broadswords' Terms of Service and how they compare to the UO Rules of Conduct, however we are starting to drift awfully off-topic here.
 

TimberWolf

Babbling Loonie
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I disagree Wild....it is all related. The core reason for the Broadswords terms of service is their fear to compete on a level playing field...and stratics enabling this to happen. The one subject goes hand in hand with the other. If Ron Bron chose to allow those discussion developers might feel pressure to improve UO and implement changes that free servers have to the betterment of the game. It is my understanding that many of the best ideas currently in UO originated or were inspired by free shards. So I dont understand how this could be a negative for the gaming public. And isnt that the goal of stratics...the Betterment of the gaming public??
 
Last edited:

Captn Norrington

Stratics Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Ok everyone, Zuckuss has already asked you guys to stay on topic twice, and now the conversation has gone way off the rails into arguments, politics, and who was or was not in the military. None of those things have anything to do with UO, so please let's keep the discussion about UO related things.
 

Riyana

Operations
Administrator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Event Coordinator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
This thread has been cleaned up. The discussion about free speech and military service was moved to Off-Topic here. Let's keep this on-topic and polite.

Stratics tries to uphold the UO RoC, which as has been pointed out, still disallows third-party shards. While I agree that some such shards have done clever and innovative things, I like that Stratics emphasizes the official games and the official rules.
 

Capt. Lucky

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Ok everyone, Zuckuss has already asked you guys to stay on topic twice, and now the conversation has gone way off the rails into arguments, politics, and who was or was not in the military. None of those things have anything to do with UO, so please let's keep the discussion about UO related things.
Was just thinking how happy I was it wasn't me being chastised! But then I realized I went off topic... :(
 
Top