H Fat vs Masters = Wasted mod

[Tuan]

Following the recent discussions in other threads, I decided that limiting the rate of swings for the melee masters would be a great thing.

Well, it works... but about as badly as something can work, while still being said to work.

I think the masters have 5k stamina. Keeping times, I've taken masters down all the way till they're down at 15% or so health before their swing speed slows down. That is basically not worth it, given that when I reforge for HFAT, I can only get 81% HML, which drastically reduces my overall effectiveness. With 100 HML I can AI almost every time. With 81, only about 60% of swings - which then compounds every other problem. Not only that, but HFAT seems to have a high imbue weight.

I think I'd be much better off to have 100 HML, and some HLA or Lightning.

@CorwinXX you like to test things out... want to test this out to see if I'm just imagining things? I've done about 15 masters with this sword...

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I think a indicator of how Hit Fatigue is working would be to combine it with Strangle.

 

[Ender]

Is it more or less effective than a mace weapon?

 

[Tuan]

How does strangle and H Fat combine to provide some definitive answer?

In theory, it should be more effective. Given that the amount of stamina lost looks like something like: damage taken compared to HP remaining compared to some threshold for stamina loss modified by armor, plus some few extra for being a mace weapon.

For the vast majority of hits against something with 20k HP, I think the first piece of that equation amounts to 0 stamina loss - even if you're doing 200 with a single hit, plus a few for being a mace weapon.

H Fat, per UO Guide, says that it will do 20% of damage done as stamina loss on a successful hit. My sword has 60% HFat, which means I should do, on average, 12% damage to stamina every time. I assume this will outweigh a mace.

Like I said though, from my best note keeping while fighting these things (admittedly, I have other things to keep track of) I didn't notice the swing speed slow down until I'd already done nearly 20k damage to the guy...

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Strangle damage raises significantly based on the fatigue (lack of Stam) of the target.

As the majority of monsters are using Wrestling to hit with, even with 0 Stam they should be swinging at 2.5s. It's going to be a 1.25s difference at best which with chance to miss I imagine would be pretty hard to notice other than by some other means, such as Strangle damage increasing.

 

[Tuan]

The masters that hit hard (~70 damage from fencers, 40+ from macers, swordsman can pile on the damage too) all use weapons, so you get the distinct "whoopsh" type noises or the "plink" when you parry them. Plus, they all actually swing those weapons the same way we do, since they're human forms...

I agree that against things that wrestle, and don't have a distinct attack motion (UEV is a good example) it can be very hard to tell exactly when they're swinging.

The mystics/ gender-confused-wizards/bards/archers/rogues/necromancer/assassin all don't *really* hit hard enough to be a major problem melee damage wise - all hitting for 20ish instead of 40+.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

The only way I can see Hit Fatigue making a noticeable difference (other than combined with Strangle) would be if it slows movement, but there aren't a lot of non parragon monsters that move that fast anyway.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Use the Anatomy skill while hitting them with a Hit Fatigue Weapon. 80+ Anat will tell you the percentage of "Endurance" (Stamina) that the target has left. If you repeatedly hit them hard with a Hit Fatigue Weapon, and their "Endurance" doesn't budge, then they regen Stamina too fast. I'm curious how much Stam damage a Hit Fatigue Macing Weapon would do though, and if it'd make a difference.

 

[Tuan]

My assumption is that the HFat is working just fine... but that the masters just have way too much stamina. Per UO Guide a HFat hit will do 20% of the damage done to the target's stamina. So, if I'm landing avg of 125 or so damage per hit, and my sword is 50% HFat, then on average I'm doing ~13 stamina damage per hit.

I suppose it's possible that the masters have 120 Focus and 200ish stamina or something. I think it's more likely that they have 1000 stamina. I could not find anything like the hunters guide entry for the masters with any reliable information (actually, could not find any at all).

I also couldn't find any (recent) hard info on exactly how much stamina a mace hit takes away. Best info I found is on the OLD UOSS calculator that says a mace does an extra 3 to 5 damage to stamina.

Based on what I saw with the melee masters, using a mace wouldn't slow it down much faster, maybe when it's at 20% life instead of 12.

 

[TimberWolf]

Tuan I have been searching for a couple days.....and there is literally nothing available for researching masters. Uo guide and stratics are equally void of information!

 

[Tuan]

I will say that they sure seem to vary WILDLY. Not just taking into account that some have high resists and only 20k HP, but others have approx. 0 resists... but 50k+ HP.

The Rogue and Assassin types seem to have quite a bit fewer HP than even the weakest macer/fencer/swordsman ones, or maybe it's just that they lack parry so I hit them 30% more often or something. Perhaps they have the same HP, but man, some take me 4 or 5x longer to kill. Last night I managed to take one down to 0% in a single casting of EoO. Then it took me about 8 minutes to kill the next one... 3rd one was one with 3x the HP, took me 20 minutes.

 

[CorwinXX]

The Rogue and Assassin

IIRC "normal' ones have ~ 13-15k HP, bugged ones have ~40k HP. And Bard/Mage may have even less HP .

 

[Tuan]

IIRC "normal' ones have ~ 13-15k HP, bugged ones have ~40k HP. And Bard/Mage may have even less HP .

Now that I put a bit more thought into it, I think you're probably a lot closer with a guess of 14K+/- than my guess of 20k. 3x the HP is what I've observed on the smaller mobs, and thinking critically about my battle last night, there's no way that Swordsman had 60k. Somewhere around 40K is much more logical.

As an aside... when the masters pop the demon group, killing a Bone Daemon with 15k HP is significantly more difficult than killing the master when the master is bard/rogue/assassin/mystic/sampire.

What UI mod do you run that keeps a running total of your damage done like I've seen in some of your recently posted videos?

 

[DJAd]

What UI mod do you run that keeps a running total of your damage done like I've seen in some of your recently posted videos?

I've not seen the videos but Pinco UI does this.

 

[CorwinXX]

Now that I put a bit more thought into it, I think you're probably a lot closer with a guess of 14K+/- than my guess of 20k.

Macer/Swordsman have close to 20k. 15k is for Rogue/Assassin

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I also couldn't find any (recent) hard info on exactly how much stamina a mace hit takes away. Best info I found is on the OLD UOSS calculator that says a mace does an extra 3 to 5 damage to stamina.

Based on what I saw with the melee masters, using a mace wouldn't slow it down much faster, maybe when it's at 20% life instead of 12.

Make sure you're using the right Macing Wep if you're trying to deliver Stamina damage with it. Some Macing Weps don't deal extra Stamina damage. These are the Scepter, Sheperd's Crook, Gargish Maul, Gargish War Hammer, Gargish Tessen, and Gargish Gnarled Staff.