Mesanna, can we please get info about rules for trading items from Origin store

[FrejaSP]

As rules have changed here on Stratic, there are alot confusing about what is legal and what is not.
Can we trade items clamed from game codes for in game gold or items?
Am I allowed to use items clamed from game codes as rewards for events?
Can I give my friend a code for gametime so he can play, without breaking any rules.

It seem like we are not even allowed to ask about the rules here on Stratics.
I don't like to not know if I risk to do something, that can get my account banned.

To Stratics, if this post have to be locked too, al least help us get a public answer from Broadsword.

Thanks

 

[Captn Norrington]

As rules have changed here on Stratic, there are alot confusing about what is legal and what is not.
Can we trade items clamed from game codes for in game gold or items?
Am I allowed to use items clamed from game codes as rewards for events?
Can I give my friend a code for gametime so he can play, without breaking any rules.

It seem like we are not even allowed to ask about the rules here on Stratics.
I don't like to not know if I risk to do something, that can get my account banned.

To Stratics, if this post have to be locked too, al least help us get a public answer from Broadsword.

Thanks

Questions about what is legal and illegal in the actual game should be sent to the developers at Broadsword directly through their contact form. Posting about it here on Stratics does not guarantee that a developer will see the question. Link to their contact form: http://uo.com/contact

 

[petemage]

What rules have changed??

 

[Captn Norrington]

What rules have changed??

Link to the thread about the new rule changes: https://stratics.com/community/threads/stratics-rules-of-conduct-update.339155/#post-2540023

 

[Aurelius]

I've read the changed Stratics rules, and the linked Broadsword rules, but I honestly can't see anything in what Broadsword says that relates to the Stratics changes......

I've no problems with Stratics rules being whatever they set them as - and wish Broadsword would actually apply some of their own rules as they are written, rather than ignore and obscure their failures to do so, but I would prefer things to be in clear and simple English and the reasons for changes being similarly clearly explained.

 

[petemage]

Hah, ok. Thx for the link.

That's broadsword at it's best. "We dont care if our store is bugged. We dont care if customers get charged for FIFA. But you shall only buy in our store!"

Then again "broadsword" and "rules" in the same sentence is funny.

 

[AtlanticRealtor]

Welcome to Cuba!

At least everybody already know Where or "Who" can provide the "things" that you need!!, Just PM the Person!!!

 

[Uvtha]

As rules have changed here on Stratic, there are alot confusing about what is legal and what is not.
Can we trade items clamed from game codes for in game gold or items?
Am I allowed to use items clamed from game codes as rewards for events?
Can I give my friend a code for gametime so he can play, without breaking any rules.

It seem like we are not even allowed to ask about the rules here on Stratics.
I don't like to not know if I risk to do something, that can get my account banned.

To Stratics, if this post have to be locked too, al least help us get a public answer from Broadsword.

Thanks

I wouldn't worry too much about it, seems like its more or less impossible to get banned anymore, and I hardly think they would do anything about selling or giving away code items.

Also like someone said, It seems like its just a stratics issue, not an in game issue? Could be wrong. I don't know why they would care about us selling codes to each other. Someone still has to buy it from the store.

Either way I think its stupid we can't even talk about it, especially when there is confusion. Why is talking about the issue also forbidden?

 

[Ron Bron]

As rules have changed here on Stratic, there are alot confusing about what is legal and what is not.
Can we trade items clamed from game codes for in game gold or items?
Am I allowed to use items clamed from game codes as rewards for events?
Can I give my friend a code for gametime so he can play, without breaking any rules.

It seem like we are not even allowed to ask about the rules here on Stratics.
I don't like to not know if I risk to do something, that can get my account banned.

To Stratics, if this post have to be locked too, al least help us get a public answer from Broadsword.

Thanks

As far as using Stratics for trade or event organization, you can still trade the items you've obtained using tokens, but you can't trade the tokens and GTC themselves. I hope that helps, but you'll have to ask Broadsword about the other TOS related questions and how Broadsword will enforce their policy in game.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I guess I'm confused why this is even an issue, as the UO ToS says nothing about items purchased from the origin store, either in code or token form.

I can only presume pieces are being shuffled behind the scenes to
A) obfuscate the fact the Origin store is a steaming pile (a few years too late, imho)
B) prepare to ditch the Origin store in favor of something run from the new uo.com, which Mesanna has mentioned a few times

In any event, stifling community conversation about it simply makes it look like there is something to hide.

 

[FrejaSP]

As far as using Stratics for trade or event organization, you can still trade the items you've obtained using tokens, but you can't trade the tokens and GTC themselves. I hope that helps, but you'll have to ask Broadsword about the other TOS related questions and how Broadsword will enforce their policy in game.

I understand not being able to sell the code itself, however in EU, there are some codes we can't buy from the store with our account, one is Kings Collection.
What I don't understand is not being able to trade the token as it is an ingame item, that can be from Holidays gifts or clamed from a code, Adv Char Token is both from old gifts and from codes.
The way to clame a token from a code was meant for secure ingame trading, as giving someone a code for gold is not very secure, as it can be used already.
This really are very confusing, I hope Mesanna will post on uo.com or here to tell us if the rules changed or Trading tokens for ingame gold/items still are ok

 

[Picus at the office]

Cause it's Stratics people, is anything else really needed to be said.

 

[Nexus]

I guess I'm confused why this is even an issue, as the UO ToS says nothing about items purchased from the origin store, either in code or token form.

You have to look at the Origin Terms of Service as well as the Ultima Online Rules of Conduct which are different than the the UO ToS.

From the UO RoC

With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

Game Time Codes aren't in-game, they grant access to the game itself, and would fall out side of that if I'm reading it correctly.

and from the Origin Terms of Service

7 Gifting, Trading, Transferring

When expressly authorized by EA in writing, certain EA Content may be gifted, traded, and/or transferred. Unless expressly authorized by EA in writing, EA Content purchased from EA may only be gifted, traded, and/or transferred to residents of the same country as the purchaser. Gifts are completed transactions upon purchase, and such purchase of EA Content is between you and EA, and is subject to the terms of this Agreement. EA may automatically facilitate or you may facilitate the gift, trade, and/or transfer of that EA Content to your designated recipient as the context requires and applicable to each individual gift, trade, and/or transfer. You are responsible for ensuring that your designated recipient is (i) correctly identified, and (ii) the appropriate age to receive the gifted, traded and/or transferred EA Content

So if you are selling GTC's which based on UO's RoC isn't authorized to start with, you'd have to obtain either written permission for EA, or collect data proving the individual meets the age minimum limitation to play the game, and is in the same country as you.

Now I'm not privy to why this change in policy went down but I know questions concerning Game Time Codes and these two sections of Origin and UO's rules were queried to Broadsword while I was still staff here, it may be they received a reply.

 

[Dot_Warner]

You have to look at the Origin Terms of Service as well as the Ultima Online Rules of Conduct which are different than the the UO ToS.

From the UO RoC

With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

Game Time Codes aren't in-game, they grant access to the game itself, and would fall out side of that if I'm reading it correctly.

That RoC quote wouldn't be applicable to the sale or trade of codes or tokens, either in game or out, it doesn't even vaguely reference such...especially on 3rd party site. Its saying you cannot advertise, try to sell things (for real world cash), or scam...three things which occur on a daily basis and EA/BS has turned a blind eye to for 18 years. A prime example being the multiple RMT sites which brazenly advertise in gen chat and through book drops.

and from the Origin Terms of Service

7 Gifting, Trading, Transferring

When expressly authorized by EA in writing, certain EA Content may be gifted, traded, and/or transferred. Unless expressly authorized by EA in writing, EA Content purchased from EA may only be gifted, traded, and/or transferred to residents of the same country as the purchaser. Gifts are completed transactions upon purchase, and such purchase of EA Content is between you and EA, and is subject to the terms of this Agreement. EA may automatically facilitate or you may facilitate the gift, trade, and/or transfer of that EA Content to your designated recipient as the context requires and applicable to each individual gift, trade, and/or transfer. You are responsible for ensuring that your designated recipient is (i) correctly identified, and (ii) the appropriate age to receive the gifted, traded and/or transferred EA Content

So if you are selling GTC's which based on UO's RoC isn't authorized to start with, you'd have to obtain either written permission for EA, or collect data proving the individual meets the age minimum limitation to play the game, and is in the same country as you.

Now I'm not privy to why this change in policy went down but I know questions concerning Game Time Codes and these two sections of Origin and UO's rules were queried to Broadsword while I was still staff here, it may be they received a reply.

Ignoring the RoC, since it clearly doesn't prohibit the in game sale of items, one must further acknowledge that GTC are obviously not in game items to begin with. The Origin site's ToS is on point for this issue...though one could debate the use of the word "content." Regardless, reselling them is problematic as the buyer would have to trust that the code is actually genuine. Banning their sale on Stratics makes sense.

However, we all know that tokens for various things purchased on the Origin Store are sold in game on a daily basis for gold. Since BS hasn't made the tokens unvendorable, and is highly unlikely to, banning their sale/trade (for in game gold or items) here is just plain silly. Players will continue to sell/trade them or give them away as event prizes, probably not bothering to advertise on Stratics for fear of running afoul of yet another myopically enacted rule in search of an actual problem.

 

[Nexus]

That RoC quote wouldn't be applicable to the sale or trade of codes or tokens, either in game or out, it doesn't even vaguely reference such...especially on 3rd party site. Its saying you cannot advertise, try to sell things (for real world cash), or scam...three things which occur on a daily basis and EA/BS has turned a blind eye to for 18 years. A prime example being the multiple RMT sites which brazenly advertise in gen chat and through book drops.



Ignoring the RoC, since it clearly doesn't prohibit the in game sale of items, one must further acknowledge that GTC are obviously not in game items to begin with. The Origin site's ToS is on point for this issue...though one could debate the use of the word "content." Regardless, reselling them is problematic as the buyer would have to trust that the code is actually genuine. Banning their sale on Stratics makes sense.

However, we all know that tokens for various things purchased on the Origin Store are sold in game on a daily basis for gold. Since BS hasn't made the tokens unvendorable, and is highly unlikely to, banning their sale/trade (for in game gold or items) here is just plain silly. Players will continue to sell/trade them or give them away as event prizes, probably not bothering to advertise on Stratics for fear of running afoul of yet another myopically enacted rule in search of an actual problem.

I'm only referring to Game Time Codes to be honest. But the reason I stick the RoC up there is because it expressly prohibits anything except in game items from being traded.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I found this in broadsword's ROC :

Payment For Online Currency, Application of Taxes and Fees: The User is responsible for paying all fees and charges (plus applicable taxes) associated with playing the Games under User's Account(s), including any fees, excise or use taxes, Value Added Taxes (VAT) or levies due to any governmental agency. Unless otherwise stated, (i) payment of all fees and charges must be made by a valid, approved credit, debit or charge card at the time of purchase; and (ii) all fees and charges (including subscription fees) are non-refundable. User agrees that any purchases made by User via credit card are specifically authorized to be charged to the credit card given by User at the time of purchase.

It is possible that broadsword plans to sell "gold" in the future.

That's one explanation.

 

[FrejaSP]

I still hope Broadsword will make the rules more clear to understand, my English do not work well, when it comes to read rules.
I understand, this codes always should be brought from Origen Store and not from a 3th parts page.

I do not understand, when I live in Denmark and Origen do not sell Kings Collection, then I as Danish is not allowed to get the same ingame items as my US guildmembers, because they may not buy them and give/trade them to me. That is not fair.
I do not understand, if I have a Family member or friend living in US, who can't affort playing, I'm not allowed to pay gametime for him or let him play on one of my house holder acounts. I have more fun, if he can play with me. I had known him in 15 years, so yes he is old enought to play I sure keep eye on what he do to my account and know, if he do something illegal, I'm the one to blame.

I don't need to post on Stratics to find an ingame friend to help me with a Kings Collection code, so that's ok, it's not allowed to make deals here.
Also I do not need to post on Stratics to help my friend with GTC or let him play my account, so that's ok too. I how ever heed a Little more clear rules, friends and families are sometimes living in different countries.

I do believe Broadsword should allow posting here about ingame tokens and items included in ingame events. I also think selling the tokens/items on a vendor ingame should be ok

As sold ingame, it's only sold to players Broadwoard already allowed in the game and it is sold for ingame gold, so posting here, "<name> token on vendor Brit Gate" should be ok, but selling <name> token, PM me for offer may be a problem, as it can include trade for RL Cash.

Also selling ingame gold/item for RL Cash should not be allowed as that Money may go to other countries and will hurt the game as we will see bot players only play to make RL Cash. It should not be possible to make Money from "playing" UO.

There are a big diff between Trading between active players, trying to help each others and parasits trying make RL Cash from the game.

I know it's hard to find a balance and clean out the parasits but not hurt the real players.

 

[Uvtha]

As far as using Stratics for trade or event organization, you can still trade the items you've obtained using tokens, but you can't trade the tokens and GTC themselves. I hope that helps, but you'll have to ask Broadsword about the other TOS related questions and how Broadsword will enforce their policy in game.

Selling "watermelon"... 30m.

 

[CovenantX]

So I wonder how many people are going to take a break from UO, since they buy gametime with gold?

I doubt UO/BS plans to sell gold (this would ruin the economy even more), However, they could possibly sell items from the UO store for gold, After the whole gold conversion/in-gamestore are added of course.

 

[MrMightySmith]

dumb rule when consider the fact that the tokens were introduced and designed specifically to be sold and traded for in game gold. Then to use the argument that they are intended to be "purchased" in the Orgin store while ignoring the fact that they come in a "token" forum. Broadsword could just eliminate the tokens all together and just apply it to your account at the time of purchase but they chose not to do this. I get annoyed with decisions like this because i you know there is something else that is coming because this decision to randomly make this change makes no sense by itself.

 

[virtualhabitat]

This is the description for a Mythic token from the Uo Origin Store website -note the last sentence:

To claim your Item Token, simply follow these steps once you have received your code:
• Start up Ultima Online with the character you'd like to claim the token.
• Open your paperdoll (or character window) and click on the "Help" button.
• Click the "Promotional Code" button at the bottom of the Help window.
• Enter your Token Code EXACTLY as it appears when it was e-mailed to you.
• Your code will be verified and if valid, a Token will be placed in your inventory bag.
• These Tokens are transferable and can be traded or given to others.

My only question is this: Can a person advertise these tokens and others like them for sale or trade on Stratics for in-game gold or other in-game items??

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, you can sell tokens for in game gold as long as the token is in game (no exchange of an unredeemed code).

 

[S_S]

This is the description for a Mythic token from the Uo Origin Store website -note the last sentence:

To claim your Item Token, simply follow these steps once you have received your code:
• Start up Ultima Online with the character you'd like to claim the token.
• Open your paperdoll (or character window) and click on the "Help" button.
• Click the "Promotional Code" button at the bottom of the Help window.
• Enter your Token Code EXACTLY as it appears when it was e-mailed to you.
• Your code will be verified and if valid, a Token will be placed in your inventory bag.
• These Tokens are transferable and can be traded or given to others.

My only question is this: Can a person advertise these tokens and others like them for sale or trade on Stratics for in-game gold or other in-game items??

From what I have read and understand is: YES we can advertise the TOKEN itself for sale of trade. NO we cannot advertise the CODE to obtain the token for sale or trade.

 

[Promathia]

From what I have read and understand is: YES we can advertise the TOKEN itself for sale of trade. NO we cannot advertise the CODE to obtain the token for sale or trade.

Except this post:

As far as using Stratics for trade or event organization, you can still trade the items you've obtained using tokens, but you can't trade the tokens and GTC themselves.

So, which is it....

Can we sell Tokens on Stratics or not? The whole point of tokens even being in the game is to allow the trade of them between players.

We are hearing different things, from different people in charge.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Except this post:


So, which is it....

Can we sell Tokens on Stratics or not? The whole point of tokens even being in the game is to allow the trade of them between players.

We are hearing different things, from different people in charge.

And we're hearing it ONLY from Stratics, which means this is most likely a massive misinterpretation of a non-existent "rule" that someone decided to wildly overreact to.

 

[Riyana]

As of right now, no you may not trade tokens on Stratics. From the Stratics Rules of Conduct (emphasis mine):

O. Activities that are against any games' Terms of Service or User Agreement are prohibited from being promoted or advertised on our network. This includes, but is not limited to:

• Third party programs
  For Ultima Online, "third party programs" is defined as any program having an affect on the UO datastream or software, and not listed as approved
• Game item sales for real world goods or currency (also known as Real Money Transactions [RMT])
• Power leveling services
• Unapproved modifications to game clients
• The sale or trade of UO game codes
• The sale or trade of UO player accounts
• The sale or trade of promotional tokens
• And/or links to such items

Further questions about the Stratics policy changes should be directed to admins @Kirthag , @Zuckuss , and/or @Oscar the Grouch . Questions about Broadsword policy should be directed to the UO.com contact form or to [email protected].

 

[Promathia]

That is absurd. Tokens EXIST to be traded and sold! You can put them on vendors! That is why UO made them physical items!

I get why GTC's aren't allowed, that's obvious. If you disallow tokens, you are disallowing an item UO promotes itself!

 

[Kirthag]

Stratics rules are designed to accommodate and uphold the official terms of service of UO and are updated according to the most recent wishes of the development team. Until Stratics receives word otherwise, we will abide by the most recent word from the development team which we got verbally over the past few days. A written/formal announcement will be presented from a Broadsword representative soon, we are not sure when.

At this time, I'm locking this thread. Please - as stated - send questions about the UO TOS to the contact form: http://uo.com/contact

Or pm @Zuckuss , @Oscar the Grouch or myself about the Stratics RoC.

(edited for clarification on what the admins can reply about. Stratics does not make the UO rules.... )

 

[Promathia]

Stratics rules are designed to accommodate and uphold the official terms of service of UO and are updated according to the most recent wishes of the development team. Until Stratics receives word otherwise, we will abide by the most recent word from the development team which we got verbally over the past few days. A written/formal announcement will be presented from a Broadsword representative soon, we are not sure when.

So, Broadsword itself has said it is illegal to sell a TOKEN for GOLD?

Then why do Tokens exist? Why can they be placed on vendors? NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE