Decay rates KILL player-events!

Pandora_CoD · Jan 31, 2015

@Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak

So I spent a lot of time deco'ing for my event in a public place because it suits the event. For example, for the Britain's Library event. It was appropriate to celebrate it in Castle British as it was he who founded the Library. So it is important for us to be able to utilize the public lands for our events. It celebrates those cities and the history of UO in general!

Normally stuff lasts a few hours at least, but this time one hour into the event and things started to *POOF* disappear. This is highly unfair to us as a community of player-event planners. Especially when I was not aware of such changes, there is nothing in the patch notes that gives us information to plan ahead in a way that accommodates for the changes.

Some ideas include allowing us to buy an item off the UO Store that lets us lock down say 100 things for 4 hours and set their security access level. Or you allow EM's or GM's to lock things down for us with a much longer timer. Or a third option might be to up the decay in towns up to say 4 hours, so that its just towns.

Captn Norrington · Jan 31, 2015

This does not sound like a decay timer issue, it sounds more like there was a person stealthing who took all your decorations just to grief you.

Larisa · Jan 31, 2015

There was no stealther there...I was there watching the items disappear.....it was decay...I know they changed the decay timers awhile back but now it's too short.

Riyana · Jan 31, 2015

We have alliance meetings in different locations every week, and chairs we put down decay in less than an hour. I really don't think that someone is stealthing around every time just to steal our benches.

I completely agree that the short timer is detrimental to player events. We shouldn't have to be confined to player houses to hold an event with a few chairs or whatever.

Dixie chessy/legends · Feb 1, 2015

yeah idoc loot decays to fast also......stuff shouldnt poof till server down

kelmo · Feb 1, 2015

I think it should stay until server reset. Unless some one takes it before then.

Tjalle · Feb 1, 2015

Refresh the items every 45 mins to make sure they don´t decay.
Move them from A to B then back to A again.

A decent solution for now.

SunWolf · Feb 1, 2015

Ya, refreshing won't always work. The timer is alot shorter now and just adds more work for the person running the event.

Scribbles · Feb 1, 2015

I completely agree that things dropped on the ground should stay till server down. Im about half way there on EMs helping player events. There are lot of grey areas with EMs helping player events.

On the other hand, I absolutely do not agree with the buying a token to lock things down for 4 hours. I can think of whole mess of ways that could be exploited.

I know it is hard to do, but when i do a player event i try to make it as troll proof as possible. This involves a lot of pre planning, and tedious testing. I feel your pain @Pandora_CoD and appreciate that you work really hard to get your events going. I love player events and hope the game's antics do not deter you from doing more.

FrejaSP · Feb 1, 2015

Making events now are really a pain, as you have to use an egg timer and each 50 min, all run around moving items and hope they don't forget any. It break up a good event and that's very sad, lets get back the 6 hours decay time outside dungeons.

Capt. Lucky · Feb 1, 2015

Hate to see EMs or GMs lock stuff down. I've noticed since I've been on Legends a lot of goofy stuff that should disappear IMHO.

flappy6 · Feb 1, 2015

I have to agree with Pandora decay rate is way to fast. Itt was fine before. idoc loot is gone in a hour

flappy6 · Feb 1, 2015

nothing even goes to cavern of discarded anymore, that was such a good idea gone because of the decay rate.

Zuckuss · Feb 1, 2015

I agree with this. I have no clue why they would just decide to shorten the decay timer after 16 years. Items are now disappearing from player events right as the events are happening.

I wish very much that they would put a little thought into these types of things and evaluate the repercussions before they implement them.

Pandora_CoD · Feb 1, 2015

Larisa said:
There was no stealther there...I was there watching the items disappear.....it was decay...I know they changed the decay timers awhile back but now it's too short.

I didn't know they had changed the timers to less than one hour. All I had heard about was house decay, which I experienced with several of my houses that went IDOC before they were supposed to. And I did not see that communicated out in patch notes or change notices.

I think that's what I'm most upset about. We should know officially what timers are for what areas.

Scribbles · Feb 1, 2015

So when they "fixed" the shard shield token bug, they also "changed" timers on everything. Since then no timer on any decaying item has been the same. I for one do not know with certainty but i dont think this was an intentional change. Ever since it seems like they have been in a scramble mode to fix everything that got changed and somethings they have claimed was intentional and will remain the same.

sablestorm · Feb 1, 2015

The rumor I heard was decay rate was shortened to eliminate a server crash bug. So it's one of those trade off things the player base has to live with. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt for events, but server integrity and avoiding reverts is more important I think. Perhaps they can make a tool that you can buy which can be used to make items stick around for a longer period of time. This can be a very minor gold sink too.

JC the Builder · Feb 1, 2015

For reference, the original decay timer for placing items on the ground was 4 hours in case anyone was wondering. This applied to everything except certain newbie items such as death robes that decay in about 1 minute.

flappy6 · Feb 1, 2015

4 hours was perfect,i do think some heavy items took longer to decay than 4 hours though

JC the Builder · Feb 1, 2015

flappy6 said:
4 hours was perfect,i do think some heavy items took longer to decay than 4 hours though

If something weighed over a certain amount then it would not decay at all. This was easy to see with stacks of items such as ore and hides. But that was changed a long time ago to 4 hours no matter what the weight.

Ashlynn_L · Feb 2, 2015

The current decay rate means if you ever do events like scavenger hunts and such, you need to make sure set up time and event duration all fit into the space of an hour. It is a bit of a pain.

MalagAste · Feb 2, 2015

Capt. Lucky said:
Hate to see EMs or GMs lock stuff down. I've noticed since I've been on Legends a lot of goofy stuff that should disappear IMHO.

I don't. In-fact I wish they would do more. I think building uniqueness into the shards is a good thing and I think they should do more of it. I love the Brit banks I think there ought to be more of that. I think that such things bring a life to the shards. Many places are so barren and drab they need a little sprinkling of deco...

I guess it depends on what you think is "goofy"... I've seen some really beautiful deco around on many shards.

Pandora_CoD · Feb 4, 2015

I'd like some sort of official word on why this was done and why it's not been communicated to us as clients.

I mean I can't go around changing production servers without change notifications and communications out to the business. We have SLA's to keep.

So that begs the question, what are the SLA's for UO?

Dot_Warner · Feb 4, 2015

Actually, it was stated, just not explained in enough detail, at the bottom of the Aug 12, 2014 producer letter:

"Last but not least, I am sure everyone has seen an increase in the decay rate of items on the ground, houses, and boats. This is due to a fix we had to put in for a shard crash."

It was then touched on again during the Sept. 11, 2014 producer letter:

"5)Disappearance time was shortened when placed in the ground objects.(it has been changed to about 60-80mins from a over 2hours.)

Is it bug?Please correct quickly if it is bug.

This is not a bug it was done on purpose to fix a crash in the game."

I'm not saying it was a good change!

Ashlynn_L · Feb 4, 2015

Last night we held a meeting and found the items (benches) decayed in 45 minutes so it must have been shortened again recently. Also a brief sentence at the bottom of a larger letter isn't much of an announcement given how easy it is to overlook - it's like adding a random thing such as "oh by the way we also added yams to the game which are sold by farmers". And just leaving it at that.

Riyana · Feb 5, 2015

Ashlynn_L said:
Last night we held a meeting and found the items (benches) decayed in 45 minutes so it must have been shortened again recently. Also a brief sentence at the bottom of a larger letter isn't much of an announcement given how easy it is to overlook - it's like adding a random thing such as "oh by the way we also added yams to the game which are sold by farmers". And just leaving it at that.

The yams decayed already. Sorry.

Dot_Warner · Feb 5, 2015

Ashlynn_L said:
Last night we held a meeting and found the items (benches) decayed in 45 minutes so it must have been shortened again recently. Also a brief sentence at the bottom of a larger letter isn't much of an announcement given how easy it is to overlook - it's like adding a random thing such as "oh by the way we also added yams to the game which are sold by farmers". And just leaving it at that.

I never said it was the right way announce things or to run the game, take that up with @Mesanna. IMHO, its another example of why UO needs a community manager, instead of relying on the devs to do PR like Mesanna mentioned on L.A. (Since, aside from Kyronix, none of th. devs really interact much)

At the same time, I think players need to read what IS posted on uo.com to keep themselves better informed...but that's like trying to herd cats. (Strangely enough, that's something I've become quite adept at in the last two months...)

ZidjiN · Feb 5, 2015

Yeah decay times really suck now i agree. Been keeping an eye on 3 idocs wich i know i am solo to know about.
Went to the store and the gym for 4 hours and when i come back 2 of the idocs where gone, and so was all the items... 4 hours really?

Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS · Feb 5, 2015

sablestorm said:
The rumour I heard was decay rate was shortened to eliminate a server crash bug. So it's one of those trade off things the player base has to live with. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt for events, but server integrity and avoiding reverts is more important I think. Perhaps they can make a tool that you can buy which can be used to make items stick around for a longer period of time. This can be a very minor gold sink too.

Get charged to play this game even more.... No Thanks!!! The admins/devs should be thankful and helpful to the players that are creating these events, as its also up to them , that people have kept in this dieing game for so long.... Not just the EMS... Id say its more down to the paying customers , than to the paid staff that people play this game.

To eliminate server crash bug, they just need to invest in a few new servers which we all know they do have the money for as we paying a subscription and its not only 10 of us playing, there's people with 7+ Accs, get a couple of these peoples monies and make an investment.

whiterabbit · Feb 5, 2015

very very dificult to set up a player run event, also most impossibe !!!

Goldberg-Chessy · Feb 5, 2015

Ashlynn_L said:
Last night we held a meeting and found the items (benches) decayed in 45 minutes so it must have been shortened again recently. Also a brief sentence at the bottom of a larger letter isn't much of an announcement given how easy it is to overlook - it's like adding a random thing such as "oh by the way we also added yams to the game which are sold by farmers". And just leaving it at that.

How is it that so many people have the time on their hands to post and dissect everything on these boards yet they don't have the time or inclination to read things like producer's letters? They are just as important and usually more informative than patch notes. If you are going to spend a lot of time at your computer posting on a forum instead of actually playing shouldn't you also be reading what Mesanna puts out there?
I will bet everything I own that many of these same people have never read TOS or gone to the help database for answers to some of their supposed in game issues. Instead they have probably come here to rant and whine that Gm's do not respond fast enough to their invalid pages.
Decay rate is imo too fast but as it apparently was changed for the overall good of the game and it was referenced by Mesanna what is the real issue here?
I spend too much of my own time on these boards yet I can't recall the last time I saw anyone complain about it so who is it seriously affecting?
"a community of player-event planners" ??
I have played a long time and was completely unaware that there was a legit community of player event planners.
Either way it sounds like cool stuff but as there are easy workarounds for them I don't know if they rate the personal attention they seem to be craving...

Pandora_CoD · Feb 5, 2015

Looks like we're forced to host events in player houses... 45-50 mins is just not enough by a long shot. So until that's fixed, we're not hosting anything that requires ambience or flare or anything of the sort. So the original title of this post... applies.

Merlin · Feb 5, 2015

sablestorm said:
The rumor I heard was decay rate was shortened to eliminate a server crash bug. So it's one of those trade off things the player base has to live with. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt for events, but server integrity and avoiding reverts is more important I think. Perhaps they can make a tool that you can buy which can be used to make items stick around for a longer period of time. This can be a very minor gold sink too.

Right on. I'd rather see faster decay timers if it helps with lag issues and avoids reverts. We can't have it all. It's a trade off, but that's life in general.

Maybe they should have a certain area where decay timers are longer (i.e. Blackthorn's Castle), but that doesn't mean there needs to be an area like this in every single town square either. Offering a buyable tool where items could be locked down for certain amounts of time would be exploited from day 1, so I feel like that's not a realistic option.

Pandora_CoD · Feb 5, 2015

Merlin said:
Right on. I'd rather see faster decay timers if it helps with lag issues and avoids reverts. We can't have it all. It's a trade off, but that's life in general.

Maybe they should have a certain area where decay timers are longer (i.e. Blackthorn's Castle), but that doesn't mean there needs to be an area like this in every single town square either. Offering a buyable tool where items could be locked down for certain amounts of time would be exploited from day 1, so I feel like that's not a realistic option.

I wouldn't mind if they allowed the cities (within guard limits for example) to have a longer decay time of say 4 hours, that would help a WHOLE lot and it would be a happy balance between server stability and being able to continue to highlight cities with player-ran events.

What if the tool allowed anyone to unlock items? Obviously some folks would troll, but that wouldn't be different than when we put things down today... right? But it would allow anyone that might be griefed by lockdowns to just unlock them.

Promathia · Feb 5, 2015

Pandora_CoD said:
I wouldn't mind if they allowed the cities (within guard limits for example) to have a longer decay time of say 4 hours, that would help a WHOLE lot and it would be a happy balance between server stability and being able to continue to highlight cities with player-ran events.

You cant sit there and say that as if you know that for fact.

Merlin · Feb 5, 2015

Pandora_CoD said:
I wouldn't mind if they allowed the cities (within guard limits for example) to have a longer decay time of say 4 hours, that would help a WHOLE lot and it would be a happy balance between server stability and being able to continue to highlight cities with player-ran events.

What if the tool allowed anyone to unlock items? Obviously some folks would troll, but that wouldn't be different than when we put things down today... right? But it would allow anyone that might be griefed by lockdowns to just unlock them.

Fair point on the tool. Real question is then about cost/benefit analysis. Is it worth the time/effort/resources of the developers to put in coding for a new item like that? I'm certainly not the person to make that call.

However, if reducing the decay time truly was for the reason of assisting with server lag, possible reverts or other server trouble - than it's a tough call to say any where other than Blackthorn's castle (maybe small handful of other spots) should have any type of special decay timer rules. As you previously stated, maybe player run events will start to have to be more house based.

Let me also state that by all means, this game needs people like you who run these types of events. It's good to know its still out there and active. Hopefully developers can find the right balance, but I wouldn't personally hold my breath.

Jacuyl · Feb 8, 2015

Ugh. I was wondering why all my lovely dragon lanterns were poofing at that tavern night.. I didn't realize the situation was that bad. Decay in 45 minutes? How about getting new servers lol... We're way too far at the bottom of teh totem

Ashlynn_L · Feb 9, 2015

I personally think 90 minutes would be a better compromise but I don't know programming stuff and why it is such a huge issue. Still if it is only a problem now 17 years into the life of the game which has a lower population than in the past when item decay was longer then it speaks to other problems really - not item decay and the lag caused by it.

Arcus · Feb 9, 2015

They downgraded the servers and the bandwidth allocation when they moved to Broadsword so they cut back the decay rate to help with server load and packet load. Good luck convincing them to change it back, would be an increased cost to Broadsword . EA was just eating the losses. Broadsword is too small and cannot.

Merlin · Feb 9, 2015

Arcus said:
They downgraded the servers and the bandwidth allocation when they moved to Broadsword so they cut back the decay rate to help with server load and packet load. Good luck convincing them to change it back, would be an increased cost to Broadsword . EA was just eating the losses. Broadsword is too small and cannot.

Is this confirmed or conspiracy theory?

Dot_Warner · Feb 9, 2015

Merlin said:
Is this confirmed or conspiracy theory?

Has to be a conspiracy theory as EA still owns UO, Broadword is simply managing it.

However, that's not to say that EA is spending a penny more on UO than they absolutely have to. EA is evil, greedy and shortsighted, after all.

Arcus · Feb 9, 2015

Dot_Warner said:
HEA still owns UO, Broadword is simply managing it..

And Broadsword has a budget and that budget is smaller now than it was when it was Mythic and that budget was smaller than when it was fully under the EA banner.

Varrius · Feb 9, 2015

Only a few people do player events. Can't change something for a select few as noted in the player event thread.

Dot_Warner · Feb 9, 2015

Arcus said:
And Broadsword has a budget and that budget is smaller now than it was when it was Mythic and that budget was smaller than when it was fully under the EA banner.

Unless you have an inside scoop, this is complete conjecture. Probable conjecture, but still conjecture.

DJAd · Feb 10, 2015

If I were going to host a player event I would use one of the many buildings found within most cities. They are already decorated and lots have seating, tables and even bars.

Arcus · Feb 10, 2015

Dot_Warner said:
Unless you have an inside scoop, this is complete conjecture. Probable conjecture, but still conjecture.

Not conjecture. I've been around a while and still have contacts in EA. Even if it was conjecture do you really think that EA did not give Broadsword a budget? Its business 101.

Decay rates KILL player-events!

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