The transcript of the Lake Austin Meet and Greet has been posted to the Lake Austin News Page.
You can find it here. http://uo2.stratics.com/posts/49451
You can find it here. http://uo2.stratics.com/posts/49451
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Love it that they still don't get the idoc problem. So I will attempt one time to say it here, and type real slow:
Random timers for idocs only 'benefits' the scripter, real people can't sit all day long, scripts can.
Random locations for ore and other raw materials only benefits scripters, real people can't mine/chop all day looking for one ore/lumber type. Not a problem for scripters tho.
Maybe I'm missing something about this, but I cannot for the life of me figure how random is supposed to slow down anyone except the legit player who actually has some time constraints on how long he can do these things.
Random timers for idocs only 'benefits' the scripter, real people can't sit all day long, scripts can.
Random locations for ore and other raw materials only benefits scripters, real people can't mine/chop all day looking for one ore/lumber type. Not a problem for scripters tho.
Maybe I'm missing something about this, but I cannot for the life of me figure how random is supposed to slow down anyone except the legit player who actually has some time constraints on how long he can do these things.
So it's official. Multiboxing is legal...la
Well there ya go, scripting is fine as long as you are there....done.
It's all wide open as long as we're attended it looks like...
yep that's what i took from it too. Multiboxing and scripting are just fine as long as you can respond to a GM, and since GMs never come you're good to go.
Larisa
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So you don't want them to fix everything that ya'll have been complaining about? Yeah..total let down...I hate when they fix stuff!
I know that it's not very exciting but we want them to squash bugs right? I know I do! So I am rather excited about this!
I know that it's not very exciting but we want them to squash bugs right? I know I do! So I am rather excited about this!
I'm actually excited for a bug fix. I'm hoping that the Pet Revamp is closer on the radar.
And having the account management system under Broadsword control makes me happy too. I am hoping to see much better things in store for this year. Getting on Steam will be nice if they have a good new player system in place.
Looking forward to it all.
And having the account management system under Broadsword control makes me happy too. I am hoping to see much better things in store for this year. Getting on Steam will be nice if they have a good new player system in place.
Looking forward to it all.
Lots of great announcements, but I'm pretty frustrated with the continuing anti-community manager weirdness. I mean absolutely no offense to the team, but community management is a job all its own. It takes a particular personality to wrangle a mob and make them happy. You guys are not good at this, you're just not. Honestly, emphatically, and with as much respect as I can muster for the work you've done keeping my favorite game of all time breathing: please reconsider your position on communication and PR. Let coders code, let producers produce, and find a communicator to... well, you get it. I love you guys, but seriously, one of the things that harms UO the most is that people think it's a dead game in maintenance mode. That impression is real, Broadsword peeps, it really is. I hear it all of the time from former players and those who have yet to try UO.
My two bits.
My two bits.
What happened to being able to detect the script program, huh? And the art update being basically canceled, very encouraging. I love having to zoom WAY out for textures to not look awful, it really feels like the way games are meant to be played.
Larisa
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When they implemented Punkbuster awhile back, everyone raged because it invaded their privacy.
PunkBuster is a computer program that is designed to detect software used for cheating in online games. It does this by scanning the memory contents of the local machine. A computer identified as using cheats may be banned from connecting to protected servers.
this is what we need...but noone wanted it...is there another way to detect scripts? I'm asking honestly because if..say I'm running a script....it's on MY machine...they can't see what I'm doing on my machine...unattended is easy because all they have to do is move the person and if they continue doing what they were doing..IE trying to mine or whatever...that's obvious...but other illegal programs...how do you detect those unless you allow Broadsword to access your computer...I don't know how all of that stuff works but it seems something like Punkbuster would be the only viable option?
PunkBuster is a computer program that is designed to detect software used for cheating in online games. It does this by scanning the memory contents of the local machine. A computer identified as using cheats may be banned from connecting to protected servers.
this is what we need...but noone wanted it...is there another way to detect scripts? I'm asking honestly because if..say I'm running a script....it's on MY machine...they can't see what I'm doing on my machine...unattended is easy because all they have to do is move the person and if they continue doing what they were doing..IE trying to mine or whatever...that's obvious...but other illegal programs...how do you detect those unless you allow Broadsword to access your computer...I don't know how all of that stuff works but it seems something like Punkbuster would be the only viable option?
Punkbuster was never actually used with UO and was thrown out before actually being implimented. By playing any online game if you actually read the user agreement instead of just clicking ok, which everyone does, you actually grant then access to your computer and the ability to see the cheat program running in your system memory or anything else for that matter.
Saying that they can only punish for unattended macroing is a complete and utter cop out. If Mesanna bothered to read the ToS/RoC she'd know they can punish/ban for much, much more. She/they simply lacks the will. Sad. 
Might as well just come out and say that scripting is legal now as well, since apparently they "can't" punish you for it.
I'm betting there will be an explosion of multiboxers at EM events soon.
Might as well just come out and say that scripting is legal now as well, since apparently they "can't" punish you for it.
I'm betting there will be an explosion of multiboxers at EM events soon.
Larisa
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See now I can't find that..the only things I did find under YOU MAY NOT...
- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.
- Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools.
- Modify or attempt to modify any file or any other part of the EA Service that EA does not specifically authorize you to modify.
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place :/
Larisa
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They can only if they can prove it...how are they going to prove someone is using a game-altering script or program unless they implement something like punkbuster? I could be running a script right now and noone would know it unless they could actually SEE what was running on my machine..which they can't...therefor they can't prove it, therefor they can't ban me for it...see? It's not a cop-out...they actually have no way of knowing :/Saying that they can only punish for unattended macroing is a complete and utter cop out. If Mesanna bothered to read the ToS/RoC she'd know they can punish/ban for much, much more. She/they simply lacks the will. Sad.
Might as well just come out and say that scripting is legal now as well, since apparently they "can't" punish you for it.
I'm betting there will be an explosion of multiboxers at EM events soon.
They can terminate an account for any reason they want, "proof" is completely irrelevant. Remember, EA owns everything on the servers, including "our" characters.
Check here: http://help.ea.com/en/article/uo-terms-of-service/
Refering to D for using illegal 3d party programs, and F which says:
(f) Privacy. You understand that you have no expectation of privacy regarding the communications you make on the Service, and that all communications made by or received from you may be monitored by Electronic Arts representatives. You hereby consent to the extraction of hardware system profile data and any data related to operation of the Software through the Service from any computer that logs on to the Service using your Account.
Basically they can do what they want with not only the data you send them but your machine and anything related to the operation of their software.
Larisa
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MAY be monitored...and they can only do that if they implement punkbuster or some other such program right? I have no idea about these things lol.
And Dot...sure they can terminate your service at any time just because....but think about the repercussions...say they banned you...just because they could....how would you feel? *Why did you ban me?* *Cus we can* LOL I don't think that's the way to go....
And Dot...sure they can terminate your service at any time just because....but think about the repercussions...say they banned you...just because they could....how would you feel? *Why did you ban me?* *Cus we can* LOL I don't think that's the way to go....
I'd rather the ban hammer be a scary thing, not the current brightly colored squeek toy that nobody fears.
There'd obviously need to be a process for banning someone, something akin to 3 strikes, just not the overly timid, passive, look-the-other-way dysfunctional system we have now.
I've always felt if I were sitting there in control of what was going on, then anything goes. I have multiple clients running to hand stuff from one account to the other all the time. That hiding stuff behind trees is for the birds, lol. And if that's okay.... then where do you draw the line. If a GM can talk to you and you can respond, I feel your good to go. What multiboxing is I have no idea though But it sounds something like this to me.
But it sounds something like this to me.
Larisa
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Yeah I agree on a process but again...like Mesanna said during the meet and greet...once we were allowed to run as many clients as we had accounts..that opened up a huge can of worms...so some people might have 5-6 characters at an IDOC and it could be an entire family sitting at their own computers controlling each one. I know in my house we have 4 computers because my children don't know how to share :/ lol so I could technically have 4 characters running at the same time and it be perfectly legal...so for them to give me a warning that I'm running too many characters is just not cool..you know? It just goes back to...they can't prove it...and they don't want to ban someone for no reason or for a false reason...
Right! Same here with the kids, we often had 3 sessions with 3 people going at my house. Let's look at it like this... if you got four accounts that buys you 4 tickets to the event
There's your solution, buy a ton of subscriptions! 
Larisa, IF you seriously believe that BS then I can sell you some ocean fronts in Arizona? Cheap even! =/
Larisa
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If I believe what.....I mean ok this is just my opinion but....if me and my kids are all doing the same thing at the same time and a GM comes and warns me....I can do what I did in the other game I play...take pictures of all of us playing at the same time and e-mail it to them to prove it....(yes I had to do that before) So there's your proof that I'm not cheating....just because they have the right to ban someone for no reason, doesn't mean that they are going to...on the off-chance they ban someone that's not doing anything wrong and they lose customers.
This topic has always been and always will be like beating a dead horse...I'm sure the team is frustrated beyond all reasoning that we keep beating it like a dead horse...I know we all want something done....and if any of you have a tried and true 100% successful way that they can actively scan every persons computer 24/7 to detect scripts then it's just a dead end convo.
This topic has always been and always will be like beating a dead horse...I'm sure the team is frustrated beyond all reasoning that we keep beating it like a dead horse...I know we all want something done....and if any of you have a tried and true 100% successful way that they can actively scan every persons computer 24/7 to detect scripts then it's just a dead end convo.
If you want to make yourself even more confused than ever, go read this old thread from April 27, 2011: https://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-herald-official-response-to-multiboxing.240984/
The announcement on the official UO website that kicked off that thread is no longer accessible. Most of the announcements made prior to 2012 have been deleted or de-linked. It also appears that all the historical UO Herald information that was archived by Stratics is unavailable to us now as well.
The announcement on the official UO website that kicked off that thread is no longer accessible. Most of the announcements made prior to 2012 have been deleted or de-linked. It also appears that all the historical UO Herald information that was archived by Stratics is unavailable to us now as well.
The dead horse keeps getting beaten because there are simple ways to visually detect these things. Players keep beating it because all we get is tired lip service while we watch cheaters prosper. This will drive more customers away then a few inappropriately banned players ever could.
The "they could ban my kids for playing at the same time as me!" excuse is just fear mongering. We aren't talking about just having multiple clients open doing different things, even at the same event. We're talking about the blatantly obvious multiboxing that goes on: multiple characters doing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time (usually from the same tile). That's not how a family of players would rationally behave.
The "they could ban my kids for playing at the same time as me!" excuse is just fear mongering. We aren't talking about just having multiple clients open doing different things, even at the same event. We're talking about the blatantly obvious multiboxing that goes on: multiple characters doing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time (usually from the same tile). That's not how a family of players would rationally behave.
Larisa
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I remember doing Melisande that way with my friends..we'd all stand on top of each other and shoot at her with arrows...all doing the same thing at the same time on the same tile.....and during most of that fight you don't have to move....were we cheating?
There is always going to be at least one instance where someone can say...and prove...that cheating is not occurring even though it might be 99% of the time cheating is going on.
Anyway...I've done beat this poor horse enough..I think it's time to bury the poor thing Love you guys to bits I do but Mesanna has made it very clear time and time again.
There is always going to be at least one instance where someone can say...and prove...that cheating is not occurring even though it might be 99% of the time cheating is going on.
Anyway...I've done beat this poor horse enough..I think it's time to bury the poor thing
Love you guys to bits I do but Mesanna has made it very clear time and time again.
That's so not what we're talking about and you know it. A simple IP check would remedy such a page, or watching till the encounter was over and seeing the characters move independently. Nobody is suggesting an automated system banning droves of innocents, but we are expecting a logically run system that has some teeth.
No, really she hasn't. In fact, she was the one that originally said multiboxing was a no-no, so this abrupt about face is rather disconcerting. But it does seem consistent with the continued degradation of UO as a service.
It's not brain surgery or rocket science to see what is going on. .. most people can see it as plain as the nose on a face.... every EM could see it at every event. .. and anyone with half a brain can tell what's going on at an IDOC if you just spend the time at one...
Denying it won't make it stop ignoring it will only make more folk a quit in frustration. ... and everyone except those who are doing it wants it to be stopped.
Denying it won't make it stop ignoring it will only make more folk a quit in frustration. ... and everyone except those who are doing it wants it to be stopped.
If you're running 2-3 accounts, switching back and forth and controlling each one, fine.I've always felt if I were sitting there in control of what was going on, then anything goes. I have multiple clients running to hand stuff from one account to the other all the time. That hiding stuff behind trees is for the birds, lol. And if that's okay.... then where do you draw the line. If a GM can talk to you and you can respond, I feel your good to go. What multiboxing is I have no idea though
Multiboxing involves an external program to duplicate keystrokes and control multiple characters at the same time, which most of us consider cheating and a violation of TOS.
And this is why sometimes the devs need to man up and ignore the vocal minority of stratics users and just do what they feel is best for the game.
Its just laziness. We have how many paid EMs? how much would it cost to pay someone 1 hour per week to visual identify multiboxers. Anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between multiclienting on autofollow and a mulitbox pod. If even 1 multibox account were banned per week im sure multiboxing would die off fast.
Same old EA philosophy. Better to do nothing and lose accounts slowly than ban a few to save the integrity of the game. Always been this way. If you dont like cheating go to a free shard i guess.
Same old EA philosophy. Better to do nothing and lose accounts slowly than ban a few to save the integrity of the game. Always been this way. If you dont like cheating go to a free shard i guess.
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Everyone raged because most of them were probably using the cheat programs themselves. People love to talk about how they want cheating banned, until it actually becomes a real possibility. Then when they are asked to support the idea they all scurry away like roaches when someone turns on the light because they are afraid they won't be allowed to cheat anymore, causing the idea to collapse and die.
One of the biggest problems throughout UO history is that no one ever follows through on anything. They have had hundreds of opportunities to fix things, and remove different types of cheating but they always back out at the last second for various reasons. Someone needs to make a decision on how to fix the games problems, instead of just sweeping them under the rug and hoping no one notices.
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Except all we get is yet more made up excuses why Mesanna and co 'cannot' do anything..... so the people who cheat, lie, scam, destroy events, post videos and images of themselves cheating and brag about it, abuse the advisors and EMs in general chat and in-game - are actually the ones in control, and we pay for the 'privelige' of being targets for them, and of course we pay the salary of someone who 'cares' just enough to make up more reasons for not keeping her word and doing her job.....
The 'policing' of this game is pathetic. It boils down to 'unless we are present, see the rules being broken, and nobody at the time makes any nasty comments about the perpetrators, we will pretend nothing at all is wrong and let it carry on unhindered'. We have an enforcement system roughly as effective as the Keystone Cops lead by Inspector Clouseau - except those two inventions are partly amusing because they want to do the job properly, but cannot - what we have are people utterly uninterested in doing the job, but still wanting to be admired and thought helpful by the customers, so settle for fantasy rules and infinite, utterly transparent excuses to replace actually being of any use at all.
Best response in this whole thread. Everyone is a white knight until the boots have to meet the mud
Yay, currency conversion will make me log in more often .. or ... hmmm ...
whaaat?
whaaat?
Yay, currency conversion will make me log in more often .. or ... hmmm ...
whaaat?
Yep. Hope for this is the onlly reason I keep paying. Thank the gods we devoted all our dev time to fixing this tragic bug thats been with us since the beginning of the game.
They used to ban Noto-PKs because they would excessively kill..who remembers those days lol
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You mean back when they had enough paying accounts they could afford to enforce the rules? Yeah I remember then.Yay, currency conversion will make me log in more often .. or ... hmmm ...
whaaat?
There is so much about UO that I do not know and never will. Like how it is run and how it actually can be run.
Yes she said no multi box allowed. Now it is okay if you are present. I thought the point of it was to not be there. O' wells. I said I would never go on a cruise, sadly I did.
It is very hard for me to believe that the same person who helps so many with game issues, (including me), Mesanna would allow any wrong doing if she could stop it. How could that be the same person? Give the team a break. I do not think they are the enemy.
Yes she said no multi box allowed. Now it is okay if you are present. I thought the point of it was to not be there. O' wells. I said I would never go on a cruise, sadly I did.
It is very hard for me to believe that the same person who helps so many with game issues, (including me), Mesanna would allow any wrong doing if she could stop it. How could that be the same person? Give the team a break. I do not think they are the enemy.
She cant stop it. She has most likely been told by her superiors in EA that nothing should be implemented that would in effect close down accounts and reduce the money into the game. The dupers/hackers/scripters etc etc all pay subs. EA doesnt care if they cheat or not. Its all income. She and the Dev team are not our enemies as you rightly stated, but dont kid yourself that Messana is our friend. She's doing a job that shes paid for and will have parameters that she has been told to work in. One of them will be to keep milking the cash cows. She wont to anything to lose subs.
but how many people have quit over the years becuase of rampant cheating? far more than the number of they would lose by banning the actual cheating accounts. I realize this is just bad EA policy tho, and part of their policy of not realizing / caring about the bigger picture. Its one of the biggest criticisms of UO that we saw when the game was discussed by Steam players during the greenlight process. And they are totally right. If UO is actually going to make a go of steam, they will have a very rough time under current conditions.
Nope and your right may be, but do you think that they'd tell you they were doing it. They do not need another program like punkbuster, all it does it make it easier and stops you from your end if it detects cheats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PunkBuster
Believe me they don't need a reason and every time you contact their server there is a log kept. Whether or not they act on it is a different story.
I'm pretty sure they would spend more than 1 hour a week. I dunno how many events you do but I do several on almost every shard and that's more than 1 hour per week.
Plus would they only take the people that had more than 1 char at the event with a 3rd party program open? I would bet that well over half the people at the events have the 3rd party open in the background wether its not being used, being used to train taming/skill on another client that isn't there, etc. It's cheating just the same regardless of how it its being used. I'm sure 90% of the game use it just bc they don't want carpel tunnel from training, don't have time, work, have kids etc. Does that make them bad people? I'm sure everyone in this thread has a friend that has used a 3rd party program at 1 point or another simply bc they don't have hours and hours every week. I guess if UO banned EVERYONE that uses it not just for events the game would shut down.
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i think 1 hour per week would be enough time to visually identify an obvious multibox pod and perma-ban 1 account. I'm sure this slight added risk would be enough to deter the majority of other multiboxers. No need to check for third party programs. EA has the right to ban any account for any reason, so only a visual identifier would be needed.
If the dev team cannot / will not provide that minimal enforcement of their own rule, they can just continue to slowly lose players. On the other hand, which Mesanna has indicated at the most recent meet and greet, if she wants to publicly change her stance on the subject it should be posted, thus allowing the subject and discussion of those programs to be available to all on these forums.
Will i quit over multiboxers? probably not. but for alot of people its just one more thing that goes into the decision of whether to go to the account page and click "Cancel"