Ahhh, but when the cheaters use those same pvp principles, and a lot of them do, the non-cheaters need one more thing - numbers!
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The diminishing of pvp. Gameplay problem or player problem?
That's pretty much the sentiment of the pvp community at the moment. It's what I ment about the "real" pvp. Its not even "cheating" in most pvpers eyes, as its "what you have to do to compete." Most pvpers know nothing will happen to them for running the hack client, or other 3rd party programs. Lots of non-pvpers know this, and is why they don't pvp. They don't wanta cross that line.
My point of my first post was if you want more people to fight against, changing the system will do nothing for long term pvp. IMHO, making pvp fair (I know its a pipe dream) for everyone will have a far greater impact on the long term pvp participation rate then any item give away, or new pvp system. If this is not possible, then one can conclude that the participation rate will continue to decline back to its pre-VvV days (which was completely dead - even on atl).
Well to answer your question, IMHO I think the diminishing of pvp is a player problem (because lots of people don't wanta pvp with cheaters) and a game play problem (the dev team cant stop the cheating).
This is the usual solution proposed, or variants thereupon. We've seen the results: The gain for Fel and PvP is short-term, whether it lasts for days, weeks, months, or even years it's still short-term. And the loss for the majority is greatly under-rated. Because there is a loss to us though we often don't feel comfortable admitting it.
The "problem" you see, and calling it a problem is problematic in and of itself but I can't think of another word at the moment, is that PvP is just content that most people aren't interested in. Saying "here's something you need but to do it you'll need to subject yourself, directly or indirectly, to PvP," is unfair and is of only short-term gain to Fel anyway.
Short of eliminating Fel and non-consensual PvP, which no UO team ever will do, here is the bare bones idea behind the various solutions I personally have proposed over the years.
- Put every possible reward into every rules set.
- Leave it so that the chance of certain rewards associated with each rules set currently is FAR greater in that same rules set. (So, say, while you could get Slithers in Fel, you're way more likely to get them in the Abyss. And while you could get 25 stat scrolls in, say, Ilshenar, you're way more likely to get them in Fel.
- Low level power scrolls (say, to 110) in Ilshenar spawns. Players like me, who no longer have much interest in Fel, when we need scrolls will cobble together the high-end scrolls by binding the lower level ones. It'll be a pain in the ass and most people will still buy them from Fellies. But the point is that the option will be there.
- Make the True Harrower a lot harder (I don't think most people appreciate how easily he drops these days) and give him a rare chance to drop any item in the game. If you are a Fellie and never wish to leave Fel you can get anything you want, more or less, by staying in Fel. It'll just be way rarer and way more difficult. (Same as with Trammel players and power scrolls/stat scrolls.)
- Mirror the Abyss champ spawns in the Trammel rules someplace. Make the chances at their rewards noticeably less in the mirror than in the original.
- EITHER put a paragon version of the already improved Harrower in a Trammel facet someplace (he'd make a great Peerless I'm sure), OR drop its rewards around existing Trammel rules content, with the chance being quite rare.
- When something new gets introduced in one rules set or another, wait a bit (a few months?) then drop it into the other rules set someplace with a rarer chance. (So, say, early next year drop Slim into Trammel someplace.)
-Galen's player
I don't know that we can accept that one as a given. In MarkeeDragon's video talking with two of the original UO devs, they talked about how people being PK'ed and losing everything was one of, if not, the leading single-issue cause of players logging out of UO and never coming back, even during UO's growth period. It was literally financially harmful to the game when it was the default state in which UO was played. And that's when UO had a quarter million players or whatever.
I'm all for supporting PvP but, to be quite blunt, I don't really like the idea of forcing people who sincerely do not want to do it, and do not enjoy doing it, to make PvP a crucial part of their PvM experience. I really don't think the answer lies in leaning on the devs to try to make it so painful not to PvP that people do it out of total coercion and hate doing so... kinda like raiding in WOW.
I think sometimes these discussions suffer a little bit from echo chamber syndrome where a lot of people who are still gung-ho about UO and have been gung-ho about UO and its PvP for most of the last 17 years forget that a lot of the people not PvP'ing are people who have had multiple stints out of playing UO, are not always on the leading edge of the economy and the skillsets and the strong builds, and in many cases (speaking for myself and a LOT of returnees) could not possibly meet the financial meta-gate to entering PvP. The fact that tens or hundreds of millions of gold to deck one's character out for PvP may be absolutely nothing to people who've had 5 accounts subbed for the last 12 years doesn't change the fact that it's beyond the means of the more moderated UO player who takes breaks away from game--- which must be at least some considerable segment of the people you seem frustrated with for not being involved in PvP at all and avoiding Felucca like the plague. And they are definitely the group you'd be talking about when you talk about enticing "new blood" into PvP.
There is a financial gate to PvPing at all, and it is considerable. If you want more people to PvP I actually think focusing on that might be a better idea, but it was a very predictable problem ever since Age of Shadows and the shifting of the game to relying on rarity-based gear quality and gear stats. When I see how my characters (as a returnee who was gone for a few years) stack up against people who didn't leave even in PvM (let alone PvP), I'd have to be out of my mind to go adventuring around Felucca hoping to get into PvP, and I don't have a hundred or so million gold to spend on PvP gear or a Legendary Imbuer (didn't exist when I left). I may never have that access, frankly. That's why any idea in the direction of making PvP somehow compellingly important is a bad idea.
Haven't they spent enough resources on pvp? Not to be a hater, I used to love pvp in this game, but it will never return to what it was.
That said, i do like the idea of higher drop chances for stuff in fel. I assume that would be an easy change.
And I AM a pvper... I always play pvp servers, and Darkfall was probably the best pvp game. But i do not come back to this game to PvP.
That said, i do like the idea of higher drop chances for stuff in fel. I assume that would be an easy change.
And I AM a pvper... I always play pvp servers, and Darkfall was probably the best pvp game. But i do not come back to this game to PvP.
Maybe we could start small..consolidate some of the champs spawns so they are so spread out..I hate T2A but it's the perfect spot for a battleground with random spawning spawns, spawns that can only be started if 4 people are on the alter. And just add in +1 skill scrolls that stack and bump 120's to 125 at first and add +1 tinkering, arms lore,forensic,taste ID,begging,poisoning and bump those caps to 105 it would be a "major" change but just enough get every single player in game in NEED of something again. Currently they are adding items that are optional, what it needs is something everybody needs. I even think it would be productive to add +1's to all fel champs that are battle skills and add a trammel spawn for all crafting types. That way both facets have something to sell to eachother. To keep it more fair
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Great post bud.
If I may add my 2 cents:
1) The never ending tweaks to balance and keep magery/spellcasters as the most diverse and powerful pvp template have brought about the almost near extinction of a whole slew of non ranged melee templates. Lesser skilled pvpers that could not master playing a mage cannot do anything the past few years other then play archers and throwers. Eventually they get bored of that and just fade away.
Playing a good mage takes the most skill so should put you at the top of the food chain but it shouldn't be as imbalanced as it has been for quite some time now.
It's out of control. If a mage attacks my dp deathstriker and I end up killing him he then cries that my template is gimp. Seriously? He attacked me.
Basically anytime a mage dies these days he whines about templates. Its out of control imo.
2) A huge majority of todays best pvpers have terrible attitudes. They rezzkill, dry loot and trash talk to death anyone they believe to be inferior to them. This also causes the lesser pvpers to just fade away instead of trying to get better. Good pvpers complain about lack of action when they themselves are essentially the reason for the lack of action by their over the top elitist and crappy behavior.
3) Everyone is obsessed with getting the kill. Nobody is satisfied simply besting someone by repeatedly making them run.
If I am fighting someone 1 vs 1 and they run off screen 9 times out of 10 I am quite content as I know that is a win for me. I would prefer that they stayed on screen and we finished the fight but I don't freak out on them for running.
It is just another indicator that todays pvpers don't really understand or care about actual pvping and they are doing more to hurt then help it grow.
If I may add my 2 cents:
1) The never ending tweaks to balance and keep magery/spellcasters as the most diverse and powerful pvp template have brought about the almost near extinction of a whole slew of non ranged melee templates. Lesser skilled pvpers that could not master playing a mage cannot do anything the past few years other then play archers and throwers. Eventually they get bored of that and just fade away.
Playing a good mage takes the most skill so should put you at the top of the food chain but it shouldn't be as imbalanced as it has been for quite some time now.
It's out of control. If a mage attacks my dp deathstriker and I end up killing him he then cries that my template is gimp. Seriously? He attacked me.
Basically anytime a mage dies these days he whines about templates. Its out of control imo.
2) A huge majority of todays best pvpers have terrible attitudes. They rezzkill, dry loot and trash talk to death anyone they believe to be inferior to them. This also causes the lesser pvpers to just fade away instead of trying to get better. Good pvpers complain about lack of action when they themselves are essentially the reason for the lack of action by their over the top elitist and crappy behavior.
3) Everyone is obsessed with getting the kill. Nobody is satisfied simply besting someone by repeatedly making them run.
If I am fighting someone 1 vs 1 and they run off screen 9 times out of 10 I am quite content as I know that is a win for me. I would prefer that they stayed on screen and we finished the fight but I don't freak out on them for running.
It is just another indicator that todays pvpers don't really understand or care about actual pvping and they are doing more to hurt then help it grow.
PvP will never get the steam it once had. Most people don't do it and the population is just spread too thin across several shards. People keep talking about the "good ol' days" when PvP was fun and engaging, but what people can't seem to remember is that those "good ol' days" were when shard populations were fairly healthy. The devs could do whatever people suggested to help improve PvP but unless you can get a lot people who just don't want to do it into the activity (which would really take a miracle) or encourage a large number of people to come to UO for PvP, those "good ol' days" will never return.
So who is at fault? Both devs and players. There are those players who drive enough people away from PvP, whether it's through cheating, exploiting, or just being general a-holes. Then the devs because there is a sharp learning curve just to stand a chance against most people and it takes quite a bit to even get into PvP in terms of gear...and I guess incentives (because apparently people need sparkly little pixels to do anything now days).
So who is at fault? Both devs and players. There are those players who drive enough people away from PvP, whether it's through cheating, exploiting, or just being general a-holes. Then the devs because there is a sharp learning curve just to stand a chance against most people and it takes quite a bit to even get into PvP in terms of gear...and I guess incentives (because apparently people need sparkly little pixels to do anything now days).
This.
This.
And this.
And I would stress these words "making pvp fair (I know its a pipe dream) for everyone will have a far greater impact on the long term pvp participation rate". Totally agree.
Want PvP in Ultima Online thrive ?
Then make it fair, on an equal footing and with any and all players have same and equal access to all items which factor in a PvP fight.
Even better, reduce the weight of items and their modifiers and increase the weight of skills and fighting tactics to determine who should win and who should loose a fight. Make the "human" factor matter more, significantly more then a set of modifier numbers......
That would set the nail in UO's coffin for good, IMHO.
That's going back to Powerscrolls which kicked out of UO way too many players precisely because players felt pressed to get them but many couldn't either because they lacked the skills or the wealth to buy the best items to get them through PvP and so had to suffer through interminable hours, days, weeks months of grinding to make the gold necessary to buy the "needed" powerscrolls for tens upon tens of millions of gold which, back then, was a whole lot of gold......
Eventually, all of that grinding became tedious and players left the game.
No thanks, forcing UO players again into "having" to get the "new" powerscrolls would just bring us back to those days with the changed situation, though, that back then even if players left in lots those who stayed were enough to cover the bills with their subscriptions but today ? It would mean the end of Ultima Online.
So, thanks but no, no more "forced" PvP to get "new" powerscrolls, I do not think UO could afford the loss of players this time .....
There is one thing with that picture that does not add up for me....
While a non-PvPer Trammel player would effectively be barred from hunting stuff in Felucca because of his/her different play style, any and all Felucca PvPers can perfectly access any and all Trammel based content. Especially now when forged pardons be them Royal or not, can turn a red into a blue in a blink of an eye....
So, in your vision, the non-PvPer player would get the short end of the stick because he/she would get the Trammel based content as usual, but have a much harder time getting the Felucca based content not being able to hunt there because of the different playing style.
That would not work the same for the PvPer player who would get the best of the 2 worlds, get the Felucca stuff in Felucca and the Trammel stuff in Trammel. Less work, less grinding, less playing time needed (as compared to the non-PvPer player who would need to grind way more to have access to the Felucca based content...) and thus a greater divide further increasing in between PvPers and non-PvPers thus making the crossing of the bridge in between them, increasingly more difficult if not impossible to be covered......
To have your idea of a system to work, PvPers should be BARRED from hunting in Trammel (as they were when murderers existed...) just like non-PvPers are "de facto" barred from hunting in Felucca and when I mean barred, I mean ALL of their characters, not just the reds or the blues because out of 7 characters, that a player's 2 reds cannot hunt in Trammel who cares when there is 5 more blues who can do it and then bring the Trammel stuff over to the reds in Felucca to make them even harder fighters in PvP....
I mean, a non PvPer cannot access Felucca based content with none of his/her 5, 6 or 7 characters. Therefore, this should be the same for a PvPer who should equally not be able to access Trammel based content with any of his/her 5, 6 or 7 characters.....
Idk man, when I was outnumbered or out played. What I did was band up with buddies and learned to fight back not cower and hide. UO has and always will be about fighting things/people..what you suggest in the last 3-4 posts I've read from you that you want players, you want items, you want this but for no risk/cost/ or grind..which in a perfect world would be ideal. Let's not also forget this is a video game with many many different playstyles, all of which could and would benefit from a system exactly like this. What I proposed was to add on +1 stackable Powerscrolls for each individual skill..the idea of Powerscrolls being only on fel side was for a smart reason. If they were on the trammel side they would be scripted/chained 500x a day with absolutely zero risk of death. I can fall asleep and solo almost every single spawn. If scrolls were available in the 120 variety in Trammel a 120 Mage would be worth 100k at best. And the current ones on vendors now for 50k wouldn't even leave the champion area, because it wouldn't even be worth the turn in points. Yes a lot of skills would be available only on the Fel side, but in my proposal all crafting/wilderness and there likeness scrolls would be limited to only Trammel. Therefore the people not willing to enter a battle zone can also farm skill scrolls to sell to people. Everybody has crafters no matter what side you fight on PvP/PVM/ and RP..so there will always be a need for those as well..
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So many gave up on UO 1998, and especially in 1999 when EverQuest opened. EQ's draw was what Designer Dragon resisted, but the UO gods ultimately caved into: areas where players couldn't be attacked unwillingly by other players. The excuses of "Don't leave town" or "Don't carry anything you don't want to lose" wore thin very quickly. The suggestion "Get friends to fight the PKs" was of no use because PKs would be long gone by the time I and others (the legitimate PvPers, not just PKs who'd alternate between Dreads and Great Lords as they needed) could show up.
Some players may have been content with being PKd, then running from dungeon to a town (maybe getting ressed along the way only to get killed at the crossroads) and having to gear up again. Most, though, saw the original box's artwork and dreamed of fighting monsters. How many would have spent $50 on the game if it showed gray screens and a bunch of red names over a corpse? "Now you can join a world where you'll get mowed down by l33t d00dz that make your two hours of gameplay for nothing!"
I'd guess it's about 90% "things" and 10% "people." As I just replied to someone else, most saw the original box's artwork and dreamed of fighting monsters. PvP is an important component of the game, but it was never the biggest thing, and that's talking about consensual fighting. PKing in the first 2½ years drove more people away than it brought in.
I'm glad that it's written in stone that PVP and relentless PKs drove away all of UOs player base. Because it had nothing to do scamming, tons of bugs, constant reverts, servers crashing, huge amounts of Lag, the countless Disconnects, the 20 minute Connecting to UO screen and getting in game grey screened, the 10 hour long patches just for it be corrupted and having to start over. You're absolutely right! People killing people and taking there 200 iron ore was the complete and utter downfall to 1997-1999 UO which is EXACTLY why the top two player ran Pre-AOS(tram) shards that are running right now have a bigger player base than the current production servers(granted mostly because it's free)...great analysis!
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14.4k was a B!!! And I do have to admit it sure felt 10 hours long..most of the time I started it at bedtime in time to play in the AM before and after school. Addicted much? I'd say!
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Sauce for the goose. You forget that the technical problems drove away PKs as well as other players. perhaps more so.
Of course, "scamming," along with all the bugs and exploits, were things that griefer types liked to do when not PKing the noobs.
As Duke said, 10 hours? And you tried playing UO on 14.4K when the standard was at least 33.6K?
What a straw man. I never said any such thing, but you'd like to think I did. But the PKing of miners, in fact, was a big problem.
It is entirely because the shards are free that they have any business. Did you really need me to explain this to you in the past before you understood it?
How can you write something in which you contradict yourself within the same long sentence?
I think that it is worth taking a guess that half of those people would/could/might be still here playing and paying if there was such a shard supported by the team, such a shard would be considered well played by current EA sponsored ones. Just a thought.
It wouldn't shock me to see a uninsured modern shard doing very well if it allowed transfer shields to be used to and fro.....
If you want more pvp, it's an easy fix. Powerscrolls? Nobody needs them anymore. They can just buy them if they need/want them. While that was also true years ago, it's even more true now. Back then, fighting over spawns was a BLAST. I had a relatively crappy suit (by the standards of the day - it wasn't one of those all 70's/max MR/full SDI/max LMC/max LRC suits that the rich players had), but it didn't matter too much. I was still able to compete and hold my own...for one reason: my own individual skill, which was refined through hours of dueling. In spawn fighting, there would be 3-4 guilds at one time fighting one another. We'd fight forever to hold/take the spawns. Whatever the outcome, the scrolls "didn't matter" (Well, they did, but you know what I mean); the fighting itself was the bigger reward. When we weren't fighting at spawns (say, at Wrong Roof for dueling, or just chilling @ WBB), we were all on friendly terms. We all "knew" one another from the fighting and chatting.
The same can apply to Doom artifacts, though those are outclassed by crafted gear & dungeon loot, and largely obsolete. These days, the Orny is the only useful/valuable one, though some others have uses, depending on your suit and template (Armor of Fortune comes to mind, for those of us who have chars with luck suits)
vvv? It got boring real fast. On LS, it was two guilds competing, with a few random other people (one who's back for RTB.) When people weren't on or fighting, both guilds would just farm the towns. At certain times, the vvv battles took the full 20 minutes just because the other guild's stealthers ran around hidden the entire time. That was a complete waste of time for all parties involved.
I can't comment on Factions (since I didn't play when it was popular), but there was no real reward for vvv, outside of the fights, which we were able to get anywhere. The fights are fun regardless, but what sucks is seeing the same people all the time.
You want to fix pvp? It's easy. Get rid of the cheaters, and give us something that's actually worth fighting over. Powerscrolls isn't it anymore. Neither are the vvv items; other than the VvV Artifacts, most of the rewards, to the best of my knowledge, useless, or just decorative. The 10.0 pinks are nice, and the royal pardons were decent if you wanted chars to become blue again. Other than that, meh.
Once you do that...hmm. I would say get rid of innate poison resist (it doesn't trigger often enough, but when it does, it's incredibly annoying), weaken Stone Form a bit (Stone Form + protection is ridiculous, and practically invincible 1v1), and...I'm out of ideas at the moment.
The same can apply to Doom artifacts, though those are outclassed by crafted gear & dungeon loot, and largely obsolete. These days, the Orny is the only useful/valuable one, though some others have uses, depending on your suit and template (Armor of Fortune comes to mind, for those of us who have chars with luck suits)
vvv? It got boring real fast. On LS, it was two guilds competing, with a few random other people (one who's back for RTB.) When people weren't on or fighting, both guilds would just farm the towns. At certain times, the vvv battles took the full 20 minutes just because the other guild's stealthers ran around hidden the entire time. That was a complete waste of time for all parties involved.
I can't comment on Factions (since I didn't play when it was popular), but there was no real reward for vvv, outside of the fights, which we were able to get anywhere. The fights are fun regardless, but what sucks is seeing the same people all the time.
You want to fix pvp? It's easy. Get rid of the cheaters, and give us something that's actually worth fighting over. Powerscrolls isn't it anymore. Neither are the vvv items; other than the VvV Artifacts, most of the rewards, to the best of my knowledge, useless, or just decorative. The 10.0 pinks are nice, and the royal pardons were decent if you wanted chars to become blue again. Other than that, meh.
Once you do that...hmm. I would say get rid of innate poison resist (it doesn't trigger often enough, but when it does, it's incredibly annoying), weaken Stone Form a bit (Stone Form + protection is ridiculous, and practically invincible 1v1), and...I'm out of ideas at the moment.
We've been told many times that a "classic" shard takes too much to maintain, and would it bring enough players back to be worth the revenue? There might be the code somewhere, but I remember all too well the various bugs and exploits of the time. Depending on the particular code chosen, people would locate copies of UOE to use again, or use things like mana vampire without using mana
"Classic" doesn't even have the same meaning to all who'd like a "classic" shard. T2A? Prior to Trammel? Prior to powerscrolls? Personally I thought PvP was most balanced before powerscrolls, but after all it was when my thief could do pretty well with newbie clothes, a tribal spear and 50 bandages.
It's perhaps worth noting that this quote right here is apt for a lot of things... including the existence/creation of Trammel. There is a GREAT tendency among people who always enjoyed player slaying to romanticize the whole thing as being, in the past, an honorable and fun thing between two capable combatants that was exciting and enjoyable. The realism for the great majority of non-PK's who experienced a "pvp" situation pre-Trammel was being repeatedly murdered on a craftsman character or running to Britain and having 6 guys with crossbows open up on you from being hidden along the roadside.
There is always a tendency among PvP players to be dishonest about the degree to which PvP in an open-world setting generally less looks like competition and looks more like predation. If your prey are all human players, there's going to come a point where people get fed up with it, and either quit the game or quit trying to do anything where they're going to be killed repeatedly by much stronger combatants.
Sounds like the current situation we're discussing with the state of Felucca and PvP, does it not?
Free-for-all PVP: The game system so popular and successful that almost no other games embraced it, the few that did mostly failed, and the people who liked it were left with nothing better to do than (unsuccessfully) lobby million year old UO for a retro server.
I used to really enjoy PvP when it has a purpose. I liked the RPPvP that was fairly strong on GL's a few years back. Was a lot of fun and had a purpose other than just killing folk on sight because they were there. I don't care for being "lured" to Fel because people in Fel can't get enough PvP on their own.
Likely the reasons behind the DEV's feeling the need to "lure" folk back to Fel stem from problems with what is left in Fel. People that spend 99% of their UO time training and preparing to fight.. and those who feel that they must "cheat" to win.... who use every advantage they can so they can in their minds be "The Best" which in the minds of the rest of the sane means.... they are losers because if you have to cheat to win... the only one your fooling is yourself..... but that is what is "left" in Fel..... those who are truly good by way of skill and those who cheat.
Sadly most of the rest of the UO community come upon the cheaters... Many have learned over the years that you just can't compete with that unless you're also willing to cheat... and many of us aren't. So we have learned to stay out of Fel. Well they tried everything they could to entice folk back to Fel but it has NEVER worked... at least not in the long run... if that is not evident then consider why many folk either just never go to Fel or flee strong shards to go to the dead shards where they can "farm" what they need and avoid the confrontation or they join the largest Zerg guild on a shard get what they need and cut and run. It's easy to PvP if you are in a big Zerg guild because you only have to hit a target once.. with 10 others behind you against one guy it's really not that hard even if you are against someone using hacks and cheats.
I don't want to be "enticed" into Fel.. Don't have any desire to be there with a bunch of folk who are either 10X better than I could be with a connection that is far greater than mine.... and a PC that doesn't lag up... with a bunch of folk who smack talk and and are generally rude and fill my chat with profanities and every other thing I'd rather not be subjected too because they feel they must strut around like some cock in a hen fight...
Truth is that the population of UO is aging as well. Many of us aren't children anymore and some of us just don't care for the "action" as much as we used to.
Sure I miss PvPing... but age, arthritis and the still sore arm prevent me from doing as much as I'd like.... along with poor connections, aged computer and lag... or constant disconnects... These things keep many folk from enjoying PvP like they once did.
Used to be that many didn't PvP because they couldn't afford the uber gear.... but thanks to Imbuing and the new loot systems more folk can get the good gear... but also remember the population of UO is drastically reduced as well... and it would seem we've gone from a community game to a soloists game.. and it is rather hard to PvP on your own when faced with big Zerg guilds... who often dominate many of the more populated shards. I would say that they style of Fel has choked itself out.... like a fire burning through all it's oxygen ..... if it keeps growing a Zerg guild eventually snuffs out all the oxygen and eventually there is nothing left to burn... so the fuel that once fed it and kept it going dies out as there is no one left to challenge them.... sometimes smaller flames go off from that one but more often it just eventually smolders out until something new comes in to feed it once again.
Likely the reasons behind the DEV's feeling the need to "lure" folk back to Fel stem from problems with what is left in Fel. People that spend 99% of their UO time training and preparing to fight.. and those who feel that they must "cheat" to win.... who use every advantage they can so they can in their minds be "The Best" which in the minds of the rest of the sane means.... they are losers because if you have to cheat to win... the only one your fooling is yourself..... but that is what is "left" in Fel..... those who are truly good by way of skill and those who cheat.
Sadly most of the rest of the UO community come upon the cheaters... Many have learned over the years that you just can't compete with that unless you're also willing to cheat... and many of us aren't. So we have learned to stay out of Fel. Well they tried everything they could to entice folk back to Fel but it has NEVER worked... at least not in the long run... if that is not evident then consider why many folk either just never go to Fel or flee strong shards to go to the dead shards where they can "farm" what they need and avoid the confrontation or they join the largest Zerg guild on a shard get what they need and cut and run. It's easy to PvP if you are in a big Zerg guild because you only have to hit a target once.. with 10 others behind you against one guy it's really not that hard even if you are against someone using hacks and cheats.
I don't want to be "enticed" into Fel.. Don't have any desire to be there with a bunch of folk who are either 10X better than I could be with a connection that is far greater than mine.... and a PC that doesn't lag up... with a bunch of folk who smack talk and and are generally rude and fill my chat with profanities and every other thing I'd rather not be subjected too because they feel they must strut around like some cock in a hen fight...
Truth is that the population of UO is aging as well. Many of us aren't children anymore and some of us just don't care for the "action" as much as we used to.
Sure I miss PvPing... but age, arthritis and the still sore arm prevent me from doing as much as I'd like.... along with poor connections, aged computer and lag... or constant disconnects... These things keep many folk from enjoying PvP like they once did.
Used to be that many didn't PvP because they couldn't afford the uber gear.... but thanks to Imbuing and the new loot systems more folk can get the good gear... but also remember the population of UO is drastically reduced as well... and it would seem we've gone from a community game to a soloists game.. and it is rather hard to PvP on your own when faced with big Zerg guilds... who often dominate many of the more populated shards. I would say that they style of Fel has choked itself out.... like a fire burning through all it's oxygen ..... if it keeps growing a Zerg guild eventually snuffs out all the oxygen and eventually there is nothing left to burn... so the fuel that once fed it and kept it going dies out as there is no one left to challenge them.... sometimes smaller flames go off from that one but more often it just eventually smolders out until something new comes in to feed it once again.
As a pvper i can say there's very little "cheats" in pvp. There's 1 real speedhack which doesn't really do squat for anyone with a decent ping. I'd rather face someone with a speedhack than someone using one of the legal proxy services.
Anyone that knows scripting knows they break, a lot, and at the worst possible times. No rational decent pvper will use one of these so I'm not sure I get where you think everyone cheats. Now flop over to tram ruleset and it's a completely different story about cheating isn't it?
This whole concept if someone is better they MUST be cheating is completely laughable.
It's an easy way to claim someome is better without claiming it. Hence the reason gen chat is full of the nerdy kids after dying.."nice Speedhack bro" lol speedhacks are a absolute waste of time! Let's chat about
Farming all the artifacts in tram Afk..must be the pvpers doing it
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Farming all the artifacts in tram Afk..must be the pvpers doing it
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Then you must not pvp enough. Scripts and hacks aren't that rare.
Except it's not hard to tell at all. Even though they'll swear up and down that they don't do it. Do you really think someone who knows what they're doing in a pvp situation can't tell when someone is cheating?It's an easy way to claim someome is better without claiming it. Hence the reason gen chat is full of the nerdy kids after dying.."nice Speedhack bro" lol speedhacks are a absolute waste of time! Let's chat about
Farming all the artifacts in tram Afk..must be the pvpers doing it
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If I get beaten legitimately, I will admit to it. When I see odd stuff going on, I know it's a program.
Considering I've spent 95% of my play time pvping in a major guild for the past decade I'd say I know plenty on what's spread around the community.
So tell us what the actions consist of with these common place script/hacks people are using?
There are none..speedhacks are a joke. Medic scripts are absolute trash. The only scripts that can be semi advantageous are box scripts, bola avoiding scripts..even those have downfalls..para spams to death are quite amusing tbh. It's the lower end PvPers that cry about hacks. Hack all
You want, no AI can "out smart" a good pvper
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Oh I know. I was just testing to see if he'd tell us what he thinks. I needed a good laugh tonight.
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Scipts and speed hacks don't do much. I play 100% legit using the enhanced client, and I run past almost everyone I encounter. I am so tired of everyone saying its the problem with pvp is scripts and speedhacks, it isn't, especially when you can learn to out preform the scipts and speedhacks. I have found the enhanced client to be useful for this.
We do need more of a reason for people to come to fel.. But the real problem isn't always the content. Its the behavior of some of the pvpers who dwell there.
I won't pretend to be innocent, I have had my days of "lol I smoked you you noob go back to tram". But I have come to learn that really all that does is discourage people from even trying.
Some people go even darker with the griefing.. they begin to stalk, harass, threaten, even as far as throwing "spys" in your guild and sharing your vent, map and other personal details in general chat. Some even go as far as to literally steal your guild.
This ladies and gents is the real problem with pvp. I love pvp, I really and truly do. And I do consider myself to be decent at it, but I am finding less and less of a desire to even go to fel, when all I encounter are people like this. The cheats don't bother me.. all they do is make the player completely oblivious to how to really manage their character. That's an advantage to me. The child like behavior is what I don't enjoy.
Malag is right... fel is snuffing itself out.. sadly.
We do need more of a reason for people to come to fel.. But the real problem isn't always the content. Its the behavior of some of the pvpers who dwell there.
I won't pretend to be innocent, I have had my days of "lol I smoked you you noob go back to tram". But I have come to learn that really all that does is discourage people from even trying.
Some people go even darker with the griefing.. they begin to stalk, harass, threaten, even as far as throwing "spys" in your guild and sharing your vent, map and other personal details in general chat. Some even go as far as to literally steal your guild.
This ladies and gents is the real problem with pvp. I love pvp, I really and truly do. And I do consider myself to be decent at it, but I am finding less and less of a desire to even go to fel, when all I encounter are people like this. The cheats don't bother me.. all they do is make the player completely oblivious to how to really manage their character. That's an advantage to me. The child like behavior is what I don't enjoy.
Malag is right... fel is snuffing itself out.. sadly.
Like I said, if you really believe that garbage, you're clueless. I'm not talking EC vs CC. I've seen guys slip several tiles (5+) at once (in a straight line, at full speed while redlined), and guildmates have said they've seen this person runs THROUGH spawn. EC does not allow you to do that - I play on the CC and have no problems whatsoever keeping up with EC users.
I ping 35 (on average) to my home shard (LS); outrunning me is virtually impossible, regardless of what client you use. I've been a few tiles away from dexers so I can cast a spell, and he was immediately right next to me while I'm doing that (from about 3 tiles away, right after I initiate it. On his mage, I see him tile skip on a regular basis)
Are scripts flawless? Hell no. Never said they were. But they work well enough to give you an advantage over someone who's not using them. I don't care what era of UO it is, speedhacks and scripts are easy to recognize.
I just can't get used to the EC. But that's not the problem. A guy I dueled a few weeks ago completely shut me down. When he dueled one of his guildmates (and I watched their fight the entire time), he wasn't anywhere near as good. If it were just an EC vs CC issue, it's a simple thing to adjust my timing to deal with it. But it was in the way he was casting too. I'm well aware that he plays on the EC, but his casting felt too automated.
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Thee is no magical PvP hacks or scripts that make you a god......the whole thing you were saying about movement speed doesn't mean that person is cheating in any way. Someone (Link maybe) put up a video of himself dual clienting with one character auto following the other while he ran around like mad. It was crazy to see the video of what was displayed for each of his characters because what 1 character saw sure wasn't what the other character was seeing... Often character A would see B 6 tiles away and B would be like 2 tiles..... This is when both characters are using the same connection and PC so it would only be greater differences between 2 real people....
Also... it seemed like you were implying the guy that stomped you mage dueling turned on a script to do so? If that's what you meant then you should have trashed him. I can only imagine the difficulty in trying to account for the shell play In a duel. I'm not saying it's impossible but I haven't seen anyone even try it. I'd guess it's more likely he turned on WE FAST or reset his router etc.... or maybe he didn't have his 1 fc town bonus..... Anyway...
Also... it seemed like you were implying the guy that stomped you mage dueling turned on a script to do so? If that's what you meant then you should have trashed him. I can only imagine the difficulty in trying to account for the shell play In a duel. I'm not saying it's impossible but I haven't seen anyone even try it. I'd guess it's more likely he turned on WE FAST or reset his router etc.... or maybe he didn't have his 1 fc town bonus..... Anyway...
My favorite day pvp'ing was when I was accused of running scripts. It also made me question my assumption of others who had beaten me.
But on topic, that was also a couple years ago which is also the last time I really did any pvp. Hell for years pvp was 99% of my game time. Fights use to be based around factions and champ spawns. New faction arites were put in, activity increased. Replicas were put in, spawn fights went up. Give people a reason to fight and we'll show. For me VvV isn't it.
But on topic, that was also a couple years ago which is also the last time I really did any pvp. Hell for years pvp was 99% of my game time. Fights use to be based around factions and champ spawns. New faction arites were put in, activity increased. Replicas were put in, spawn fights went up. Give people a reason to fight and we'll show. For me VvV isn't it.
Actually you don't need new rewards, new shiny items and/or adding higher skills/stats cap to get people back into PvP.
It falls on the community and each shard to try things to get people interested and excited to PvP. Some ideas may work for one shard but fail on another another. Ideas do fail so each shard/community has to keep working at it until they find what works right for their shard.
Here are some ideas to try:
1) Friday Night Fights. Orgainized PvP events. Can be 1v1 or group tactics. No looting and trash talking but just plain fun.
2) GM Equipment Only Group Fight Night. Get a group and split people up on even numbered teams.. Wear only GM armor and GM weapons. No arties. no mounts and no jewelry allowed. Make skill be more important than pixel-elated items.
3) PvP Training Nights. This is for the PvP impaired who want to improve and learn how to PvP.
These are just a few I mentioned but for any idea to work both communities ( PvE and PvP ) need to put aside their differences and communicate in a mature manner on their own shards and try things just for the fun factor. Forget items and check the egos at the door when trying things to get people involved to PvP.
It falls on the community and each shard to try things to get people interested and excited to PvP. Some ideas may work for one shard but fail on another another. Ideas do fail so each shard/community has to keep working at it until they find what works right for their shard.
Here are some ideas to try:
1) Friday Night Fights. Orgainized PvP events. Can be 1v1 or group tactics. No looting and trash talking but just plain fun.
2) GM Equipment Only Group Fight Night. Get a group and split people up on even numbered teams.. Wear only GM armor and GM weapons. No arties. no mounts and no jewelry allowed. Make skill be more important than pixel-elated items.
3) PvP Training Nights. This is for the PvP impaired who want to improve and learn how to PvP.
These are just a few I mentioned but for any idea to work both communities ( PvE and PvP ) need to put aside their differences and communicate in a mature manner on their own shards and try things just for the fun factor. Forget items and check the egos at the door when trying things to get people involved to PvP.
THIS! But there has always been a bunch of these people around. Me and my friends dont want to spend time with these idiots, thats why we have GC offline most of the time and play trammel only. You know, this is my valuable free-time (free from my boss, my wife, my kids) and I dont want to waste it with as*****s... Sad but true, PVP (especially on Atlantic) attracts these guys like **** attracts the flies... No thanks ;-)
But I know ALOT of great, decent, honorably and funny PVP-people that have mastered it and teach it. But I like it peaceful nevertheless ;-)
My ideas are to radical for a traditional shard but I think if they tried this on Siege it would help increase activity there, give deeper meaning to VvV and rather then simply encouraging pvp participation it would create pvp. No bonus's, no prizes, no scrolls etc, Just part of living in the world.
Step 1: Add Trammal to Siege...
Fiction "After Blackthorn of Siege met with his long lost friend and former ruler of Britannia, Lord British, he learned a great deal about things he had no knowledge, one being the creation of a land called Trammal. Blackthorn though initially hesitant, decided to forge a pathway to this new land and provide safe haven for his people who had long suffered at the hands of brigands and other evils such as Minax.
Step 2: Link All Facets to Vice and Virtue:
Fiction "Without Lord British and Nystul to preform the spell things didn't go exactly as planned. Though the gates to Trammal were opened the magical barrier that prevented Vice from entering was weaker then in other worlds. As citizens fled to the new safe refuge so evil did follow. Blackthorn came to understand that the only way to protect the new lands was to retain control of the old. Summoning the strongest and bravest to defend Britannia an army of Virtue was formed to remain behind and maintain the Virtue Shield which would keep evil out of the new land. Meanwhile, the brigands and other evils that had so often taken advantage of the weak and unwary discovered Blackthorn's plan and aimed to thwart it. They formed an army of Vice, working to tear down the Virtue Shield between facets and allow evil to run rampant in all lands."
Step 3: Supporting Virtue or Vice. A character can pledge his points towards either Vice, or Virtue. The points for each plus the sigils returned for Vice/Virtue will be added and their side. The higher score will be considered winning. If Virtue has more points the facet barrier is in place and people on Siege will have one area (not Luna etc etc.) where they can hunt, gather, live in safety. If however Vice has the edge, the facet barrier fails and the Felucca ruleset is in play. The points are calculated each week Sunday night EST time at maintenance.
*VvV would be active only in Felucca if Virtue was winning the war and all Facets if Vice was winning.
Step 4: All other aspects of Siege remain the same, no insurance, one character per account, etc. but allow a small window for character transfers. No items, no gold, just one character. "When the Blackthorn split the facets an unstable portal was opened and the world that had been closed off from the multiverse was now accessible. Though the portal closed quickly a few brave souls dared enter the land that would become the ultimate battle ground between good and evil where the ultimate fate of the multiverse would be decided."
-Lore's Player
Step 1: Add Trammal to Siege...
Fiction "After Blackthorn of Siege met with his long lost friend and former ruler of Britannia, Lord British, he learned a great deal about things he had no knowledge, one being the creation of a land called Trammal. Blackthorn though initially hesitant, decided to forge a pathway to this new land and provide safe haven for his people who had long suffered at the hands of brigands and other evils such as Minax.
Step 2: Link All Facets to Vice and Virtue:
Fiction "Without Lord British and Nystul to preform the spell things didn't go exactly as planned. Though the gates to Trammal were opened the magical barrier that prevented Vice from entering was weaker then in other worlds. As citizens fled to the new safe refuge so evil did follow. Blackthorn came to understand that the only way to protect the new lands was to retain control of the old. Summoning the strongest and bravest to defend Britannia an army of Virtue was formed to remain behind and maintain the Virtue Shield which would keep evil out of the new land. Meanwhile, the brigands and other evils that had so often taken advantage of the weak and unwary discovered Blackthorn's plan and aimed to thwart it. They formed an army of Vice, working to tear down the Virtue Shield between facets and allow evil to run rampant in all lands."
Step 3: Supporting Virtue or Vice. A character can pledge his points towards either Vice, or Virtue. The points for each plus the sigils returned for Vice/Virtue will be added and their side. The higher score will be considered winning. If Virtue has more points the facet barrier is in place and people on Siege will have one area (not Luna etc etc.) where they can hunt, gather, live in safety. If however Vice has the edge, the facet barrier fails and the Felucca ruleset is in play. The points are calculated each week Sunday night EST time at maintenance.
*VvV would be active only in Felucca if Virtue was winning the war and all Facets if Vice was winning.
Step 4: All other aspects of Siege remain the same, no insurance, one character per account, etc. but allow a small window for character transfers. No items, no gold, just one character. "When the Blackthorn split the facets an unstable portal was opened and the world that had been closed off from the multiverse was now accessible. Though the portal closed quickly a few brave souls dared enter the land that would become the ultimate battle ground between good and evil where the ultimate fate of the multiverse would be decided."
-Lore's Player
Adding VvV to all shards would only serve to piss off more players.... when I go to an EM event I don't want to have to care that if I heal or rez someone I'm going to get thrown into Virtue or Vice because I was trying to help out players at the Event. I am always healing and rezing folk... afterall healing is something that earns you points to the drop...
Adding that system to all shards would be a pain. I would be extremely torked to be wandering in a dungeon and suddenly come upon someone who's in trouble and try to help them only to find that they were enticing me to heal them so that they could now have their friends kill me because I helped someone. I see a WHOLE lot of opportunity to grief that... No. Leave that crap in Fel. It's bad enough there.
Honestly if people wanted to PvP they would... I don't need to be tricked into doing it.
I agree with a lot of folk the reason folk avoid most that stuff is because of bad experiences ...... either through being ganked, trash talking, perceived use of cheats... (and I'll say this .... I don't know about hacks and cheats but I did for awhile join a large Zerg guild.... and their chat and vent was FULL of them discussing the use of illegal 3rd party cheats, hacks and other things... They bragged about it all the time not only in their own vent but in General Chat.) and yes.... people luring folk to Fel to gank them..... I've seen any number of things... including folk who could walk right thru objects that would stop anyone else like candelabra's and such so don't tell me that there aren't cheats... As for speed hacking I myself have been accused of using one ... but like many others I use the EC... no speed hack just auto-navigating around crap as part of the client. It really doesn't matter what the issue is... the fact is that many folk just don't care for PvP. It's the same reason I never liked a bunch of video games... and I'm sure there are several others that feel the same way... I don't care for "panic" games. Some thrive on the rush of adrenaline.... others have severe anxiety and don't do well under "panic" conditions. Others don't have the connection or PC to even attempt to PvP.
I can't honestly think of anything that would change the minds of many except having folk willing to help them learn... and not by killing them repeatedly.... no one likes that. It's like I was trying to explain to someone once... PvP is only fun when it's balanced.... when the outcome isn't predetermined. When it's challenging..... but not impossible... No one wants to be ganked 10 to 2 ...... or 15 to 1 or whatever... I honestly don't see where it's fun to be on either side of that. If you are the 1 well that's totally not even fun.... and if you are on the 15 well... you probably spent more time preparing to fight than fighting... and that's not fun either. And folk aren't going to stick around in a group or guild or fight or whatever if they are constantly spending their time in a death robe... If their only experience with PvP is seeing the world in shades of gray after .2 milliseconds then they aren't really going to have a feeling of fondness for it. Killing someone who obviously hasn't a clue how to fight or defend themselves isn't really a challenge either and honestly would get old and boring really quickly as well. Then standing about and belittling them for their lack of skill certainly isn't going to endear them to playing in Fel... taking the time to give them advice like saying... well you might have done better if you did this or had that.... or whatever might go a lot further towards making it a good experience.
But again it comes down to community... it is the community that is what made UO great... and it's also that same community that is tearing it apart and driving folk away.
Adding that system to all shards would be a pain. I would be extremely torked to be wandering in a dungeon and suddenly come upon someone who's in trouble and try to help them only to find that they were enticing me to heal them so that they could now have their friends kill me because I helped someone. I see a WHOLE lot of opportunity to grief that... No. Leave that crap in Fel. It's bad enough there.
Honestly if people wanted to PvP they would... I don't need to be tricked into doing it.
I agree with a lot of folk the reason folk avoid most that stuff is because of bad experiences ...... either through being ganked, trash talking, perceived use of cheats... (and I'll say this .... I don't know about hacks and cheats but I did for awhile join a large Zerg guild.... and their chat and vent was FULL of them discussing the use of illegal 3rd party cheats, hacks and other things... They bragged about it all the time not only in their own vent but in General Chat.) and yes.... people luring folk to Fel to gank them..... I've seen any number of things... including folk who could walk right thru objects that would stop anyone else like candelabra's and such so don't tell me that there aren't cheats... As for speed hacking I myself have been accused of using one ... but like many others I use the EC... no speed hack just auto-navigating around crap as part of the client. It really doesn't matter what the issue is... the fact is that many folk just don't care for PvP. It's the same reason I never liked a bunch of video games... and I'm sure there are several others that feel the same way... I don't care for "panic" games. Some thrive on the rush of adrenaline.... others have severe anxiety and don't do well under "panic" conditions. Others don't have the connection or PC to even attempt to PvP.
I can't honestly think of anything that would change the minds of many except having folk willing to help them learn... and not by killing them repeatedly.... no one likes that. It's like I was trying to explain to someone once... PvP is only fun when it's balanced.... when the outcome isn't predetermined. When it's challenging..... but not impossible... No one wants to be ganked 10 to 2 ...... or 15 to 1 or whatever... I honestly don't see where it's fun to be on either side of that. If you are the 1 well that's totally not even fun.... and if you are on the 15 well... you probably spent more time preparing to fight than fighting... and that's not fun either. And folk aren't going to stick around in a group or guild or fight or whatever if they are constantly spending their time in a death robe... If their only experience with PvP is seeing the world in shades of gray after .2 milliseconds then they aren't really going to have a feeling of fondness for it. Killing someone who obviously hasn't a clue how to fight or defend themselves isn't really a challenge either and honestly would get old and boring really quickly as well. Then standing about and belittling them for their lack of skill certainly isn't going to endear them to playing in Fel... taking the time to give them advice like saying... well you might have done better if you did this or had that.... or whatever might go a lot further towards making it a good experience.
But again it comes down to community... it is the community that is what made UO great... and it's also that same community that is tearing it apart and driving folk away.
Im glad you played with people, who claim to be hackers, but I assure you. The current state UO is in now there are no "real" hacks..you can't bypass the server side rules, or rubber and and trick the server like you once could. The most you can do is alter arts files. That's the closest thing to a "hack"..using that 3rd party program to speed up your processor doesn't make you skip tiles like everyone seems to think. It just a more harmful version of Lowerping or WTFast, which attain the same
Result safely, and legally.
Nobody telling you "how to" fight will ever teach you anything. The only way to learn is to practice, and practice involved many many many deaths
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Yes, as some of us have talked about before, cast Arch Cure or Cleansing Winds on yourself at a Trammel event, which hits VvV, or use Noble Sacrifice to res a friend...
It can be frustrating to see VvV opponents escape to Luna, but there are too many consequences if VVV is expanded beyond Felucca. For the first couple of days, people might get fooled by a ghost asking for a res, someone asking for a cure, or someone running around hoping to get hit by a beneficial area spell, so his stealth archer buddies can come out for a gank. Let no one think there aren't still griefers like that. Then the dungeons would become purely anti-social, if not deserted.
Wait, that sounds alot like "this is a combat area do you agree to proceed".
Just a couple of points - and if I repeat anything that has already been said, forgive me, this is quite the heavy thread, and I didn't read the whole thing.
First off, VvV gave pvp a huge shot in the arm at the start, and it did it everywhere, not just in the contested towns. I haven't seen this much pvp on Atl for years. However it did die down again with the next publish, because face it, there's some cool "stuff" to be had with the new Halloween event, and people are more into that than they are into pvp at this moment.
However, I think there was a problem with the whole process of developing VvV - whether it is the cause of some of the discussion going on in this thread or not, is another question. Everyone one knows how much I hate cheating (please read to the end of this before you start trolling), and I completely understand why this decision was made, no one with a black mark on an account was allowed to take part in the focus group that helped develop VvV.
This basically cut out all the "hard core" pvp'rs, because frankly, I don't know very many "hard core" pvp'rs who don't have black marks on their accounts. Maybe this was a good thing, maybe it wasn't, but it did gnaw at me, and I expect most of those "hard core" pvp'rs feel somewhat disenfranchised when it comes to the development of the VvV system.
First off, VvV gave pvp a huge shot in the arm at the start, and it did it everywhere, not just in the contested towns. I haven't seen this much pvp on Atl for years. However it did die down again with the next publish, because face it, there's some cool "stuff" to be had with the new Halloween event, and people are more into that than they are into pvp at this moment.
However, I think there was a problem with the whole process of developing VvV - whether it is the cause of some of the discussion going on in this thread or not, is another question. Everyone one knows how much I hate cheating (please read to the end of this before you start trolling), and I completely understand why this decision was made, no one with a black mark on an account was allowed to take part in the focus group that helped develop VvV.
This basically cut out all the "hard core" pvp'rs, because frankly, I don't know very many "hard core" pvp'rs who don't have black marks on their accounts. Maybe this was a good thing, maybe it wasn't, but it did gnaw at me, and I expect most of those "hard core" pvp'rs feel somewhat disenfranchised when it comes to the development of the VvV system.
Yes to all.
Sonoma had a wonderful Fight Night event that was just plain awesome. People who you never see at PvP hot-spots would enter the ring to particpate and everyone else got to watch it.
But then again..I've been playing for so many years with the way it is! additional gumps "do you wish to be teleported out of VvV area" "by doing this "you accept this combat ". Thats far too much for me to comprehend or accept! I just like taming and bank sitting!
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Sorry but no thanks, the last thing Siege would need is Trammel, there are 20+ shards with Trammel, Siege should never ever be one of them.
See here's where I have a problem with that whole "black mark" BS she pulled. I personally have 1-2 black marks on my account. One was for swearing in general chat during a debate, not even targeted at a player. The second was for afk macroing hiding years ago with a nickel in my escape key. Never once was i suspended, banned or reprimanded for using 3rd party programs, or in question of using a speeder of any kind. So even with that, I wouldmt even be considered for a focus group involving "the only" thing I do within the game. Some of us know a few of the focus group members, and let it be said on record. One of them spends 80% of his time on dummy accounts afk farming artifacts, and the other 20% bank sitting with his leet gear! You know who you are
so much for a "PvP" focus group!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Our new advisor on Napa said more or less exactly this when 2 or 3 people were whining in general chat that PvP on this shard sucks. He asked if any of them had tried to host an event or anything like that. I think sometimes PvPers feel like they're the only ones feeling the diminishing of the game. You have to really put yourself out there and sometimes start a snowball rolling yourself to really do just about anything in UO today if you aren't on Atlantic, including almost any PvM stuff. Sometimes the things PvP players say about the state of PvP implies they think that the game should simply be forcing more people to come to Fel and PvP through exclusive drops and required rewards and don't think to just try to jump start PvP themselves.
The sad truth is, if the state of PvP is such that it isn't fun for most people and they are going to refuse to do it unless exclusive rewards overwhelmingly compel them to try, the problem is not with the rewards. I also mentioned the lack of accessibility but I realize just from my conversations with people in game that this is not a hindrance to most people still playing UO as multi-accounts of substantial age and being richer than god seems to be normal. Speaking for myself, I could spend the next 2 months re-tooling a character just for PvP, or I could load up League of Legends and play PvP right now on an equal footing...