faction sigil thieves could not use stealth, i dont see why vvv thieves holding a sigil are allowed to be stealthed.
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I kinda want them to add the scoring system to search.uo so that when we are having conversations like this you can at least verify that the person doing the derailing has or has not participated in the system. I also agree that the VvV theif can easily win a town and make the outcome unchangeable if the other side ins't instantly on the ball. I think if they simply made the mana spike's MORE effective that would help.
I don't know specifically when this was changed but for the last several years (at least back to 2009 and up until Factions was retired) thieves could stealth with the sigil. I spent (far far too much) time running them. There were a lot of choke points though which made our jobs more difficult and of course they had to be held in base for 10 hours. Maybe that is what VvV is missing, like a little caged in area for the priests that allow other participants to make some kind of defense?
hmm, maybe im remembering wrong on that one. i stole alot of sigils on a thief / archer. maybe i just didnt have stealth cause it took up too many skill points.
DAMN YOU! It was you who kept stealing the sigils back from me. *sends purple ponies to chase Smoot for past deeds* (j/k the archer thief who fought against me was a stealther too. I think he swapped healing for stealing)
It seems you have the tools, detect hidden, you just don't want to use it?
I could see that as an interesting compromise. maybe make it an alter and only be able to be turned in when fight for the alter is taking place?
Possibility: Have it setup to only be returnable during a battle for the alter and have also had to hold the alter for some amount of time?
Try that and let me know how it works for you. Tracking and detect can only do so much in a large town with a thief running around. Your best bet would be to track him right when he gets to the priest, and try to get him before he does the second sigil. But they get so many points for sigils that just one sigil in a good fight even could win the match.
Gotcha.
Just remove stealthing while holding a sigil..it changes exponentially the entire system..but then again, how on earth are we supposed to lure the trammies who live in stealth and want to farm points for sweet new deco! System will be dead in 6 months if they don't make it fun for people who are actually using it for its intended purpose, to gain more fights..
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With the exception of those on Altantic I am guessing everyone else who wanted the deco has already obtained it.
What kind of thief should not be able to stealth? And this BS about not being able to stop a thief from returning the sigil is just that, BS! Several times now guilds/alliances have worked together fielding the priests to stop me from returning sigils. The sigils will not stay in our packs after a certain amount of time, they just disappear. So better yet, instead of whining about thieves here, go scout where the sigils are since they spawn in the same spots and attack us when we steal them and have to wait a timer before we can hit hiding.
This whole system is broken for dead shards and the end result is destined to be failure.
The simple fact that on dead shards it is hard to field more than 2 ppl to actively track down a stealthing thief whom is not engaging in the actual "PVP" aspect of the systems design makes it damn near impossible to win.
1 Sigil = roughly 2 altars in points. There are 4 sigils and there are 4 altars...do the math.
For those of you whom are demanding a PVPer to change his template to accommodate a thief you argument is invalid. You are asking the minority of this game to cater to an even smaller minority?? I want to pvp, that is what this system is designed to do and now I have to change my template to add tracking and detect hiding in order to pvp? Throw in the cost of traps and the mana spike and you literally need to spend a full day farming points in order to save up enough to attain enough traps and a mana spike in hopes of killing the thief. Let's say you are successful; now all the thief has to do is eat a stat loss potion and they are right back in it...unless they earned enough points already to where the cannot lose. Then they just hide and wait for the timer to lapse. If you're not successful ALL those points you spent on traps go to waste since once the town is done you do not get the traps back.
Thiefs are OP and any of you whom disagree are merely doing so because you most likely play a thief. This system was suppose to cater to PVP and encompass the old faction thief. What it has done is ruin PVP for those whom actually want to engage in it and reward those that want to play a template that doesn't.
It is working on ATL, but we should not be forced to play there. I'm on the west coast and with Lowerping I still only get down to about 85 ping on avg. Can I survive? Sure, but going against someone who is pinging 10-20 isn't all that fun.
Should thiefs still be an active part of the system? Yes. But they should not be the deciding factor of a PVP based system.
I have two banners, the two I really wanted, but you know how it goes. It just won't feel right until I have a set.
Hey man, I got older! Powergaming has a new set of rules now and it includes a stable family life!
Haha, literally a "**** minorities" post
Where to start? Guess it will be...THIEVES!!!
Nobody has to change their templates...ever. If you find chasing thieves not your bag, find people who do. Recruit players who run with detective type templates into your PvP guild. Yes, tracking a skilled thief is difficult...and it should be. If you aren't willing to adapt, don't complain.
Yes, I do play a thief in UO and ultimately won't bother with this system except for the way it could give me more marks to steal from. That being said, there have been plenty of Faction thieves over the years, why shouldn't those players be given the same type of fun in VvV that fighters have?...la
Whether you realize it or not, Felucca is controlled by pvp and has been so since the creation of Trammel. This is ofc as it should be so please whine somewhere else about your non pvp difficulties in Felucca as they are laughable.
Not everyone. I certainly don't...and I never did. Never will either (well, unless it's console gaming, but that's not doing anything the game doesn't allow you to do, you just cut out the middleman known as grinding.)
For me, cheating in a pvp situation has no meaning. It's not your skill doing the fighting. While I still pvp, I haven't been enjoying it either, for the same reason. I have a char on Atlantic too, and I've dabbled over there, but on the two occasions I've managed to get guys in a 1v1 situation, I wasn't impressed. I killed one guy @ Yew Gate (how I managed to get him alone there I'll never figure out), and the other was a dismount tamer (which I guess could be considered a 2v1...) in a vvv battle @ Moonglow; I was more worried about the guy's cu sidhe than I was him.
My expectations for VvV. It will be dead in 6 months except for Tram guilds doing the sigil part. Plain and simple it is too easy for a character with 120 stealth, 100 hide, 100 detect, 100 steal to win a town. Also, there is no immediate reward for pvpers... I also dont understand were the vice vs virtue story line comes through. Seems like its guild vs guild with thieves sitting on the outside laughing. More over it would be great if the stats for these fights were posted on a website that kept a history. There is no greater reward than being able to look up how much better you are than everyone else. 
If the goal of VvV was to create a PvP system that had an object/goal to obtain then I think they are missing the point when a toon with 420 skill points can win a town naked, both arms tied behind his back, and no guild support.
In my opinion it was a great effort by the UO staff to give PvP some sort of Goal. I just dont think they hit the nail on the head and i dont think they will be fixing this system anytime soon.
If the goal of VvV was to create a PvP system that had an object/goal to obtain then I think they are missing the point when a toon with 420 skill points can win a town naked, both arms tied behind his back, and no guild support.
In my opinion it was a great effort by the UO staff to give PvP some sort of Goal. I just dont think they hit the nail on the head and i dont think they will be fixing this system anytime soon.
They really **** the bed on this VvV system...tho i do respect the effort..hopefully they listen to players and actually fix it but will instead prob just do what they do with most stuff " heres new content with 100 problems..deal with it". The fact that i can capture every alter and kill 80% of the players there and still lose to some random stealther stealing sigils that no one can find is crazy to me. Also the 5 min stat is horrid make it 10...and i know the idea is to make the pvp in towns but pvping out side of the battles has become so pointless...add points tittles leader board or somthing. Also free to play but a subcription to own houses or somthing (one can dream).
(one can dream).
I also agree on making stats go to 10 minutes.
With next patch sigil will be reduced to the same points as altars so imo it will be fixed for that part and also the fix for hidden character not counting as occupying towns. I think that guild/alliance winners should get a boost of 100 silver to each winning participants .
With next patch sigil will be reduced to the same points as altars so imo it will be fixed for that part and also the fix for hidden character not counting as occupying towns. I think that guild/alliance winners should get a boost of 100 silver to each winning participants .
Sure there are, but then again, you are probably implying that thieves don't PvP...la
We will continue to make adjustments to the system based on feedback, as well as continue to support it in future publishes. The last batch of changes will hopefully balance the playing field against the stealthing sigil takers. Our goal is to not completely nerf that portion of the system, but find a balance. At the heart the system is intended to encourage fighting, but also remember that many are sitting on thief/thief-esque characters that don't get used often. Finding a role for them in VvV that is fun while not completely unbalancing everything is the ultimate goal.My expectations for VvV. It will be dead in 6 months except for Tram guilds doing the sigil part. Plain and simple it is too easy for a character with 120 stealth, 100 hide, 100 detect, 100 steal to win a town. Also, there is no immediate reward for pvpers... I also dont understand were the vice vs virtue story line comes through. Seems like its guild vs guild with thieves sitting on the outside laughing. More over it would be great if the stats for these fights were posted on a website that kept a history. There is no greater reward than being able to look up how much better you are than everyone else.
If the goal of VvV was to create a PvP system that had an object/goal to obtain then I think they are missing the point when a toon with 420 skill points can win a town naked, both arms tied behind his back, and no guild support.
In my opinion it was a great effort by the UO staff to give PvP some sort of Goal. I just dont think they hit the nail on the head and i dont think they will be fixing this system anytime soon.
In the immediate future we will be implementing leader board stat tracking that will eventually connect to MyUO as well as releasing some additional fiction as to how the storyline for VvV is playing out (both in-game & on UO.com). We will be looking to make the battles more impactful as well as finding a more defined role for the "PvP Thief" We'll also continue to monitor feedback and make changes as necessary. Thanks again for the feedback!
Kyronix, you rock.
Or in other words, we will bend to the public sentiment against thieves that has always presence and once again nerf anything that gives a thief a leg up on the competition...la
Not the case at all. My favorite template to have ever played in UO is the thief, so providing a resurgence of that template is something that is very near and dear to my heart. That being said, you have to look at all sides when deciding what to tweak. At the core the main goals was to provide a fast paced combat system, and from the feedback from those participating, we did not achieve a good balance between the combat path to getting points and the sigil path to getting points.
All that being said, we are still looking to add something for the PvP thief in VvV. One idea we kicked around a bit was to give participants some item that could be stolen from enemies for some benefit. Something like a VvV amulet that a VvV player carries around and the thief can steal it. Like I said, just an idea...would love to hear thoughts on it!
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For what it's worth. Thank you for your reply. As a long time thief it's truly refreshing to hear something from a developer about the thief profession.
I'll start thinking up some suggestions, but in the mean time, any changes you install as pro-thief should always consider the part of being a thief that gives us our rush. The chase!!!
Make stealing something from another VvV player big enough that the player(s) find it important enough to try and get it back by killing the thief. If a player doesn't mind losing something, they are going to concentrate on fighting and the thief will end up with an item (and some points), but no chase...la
I'll start thinking up some suggestions, but in the mean time, any changes you install as pro-thief should always consider the part of being a thief that gives us our rush. The chase!!!
Make stealing something from another VvV player big enough that the player(s) find it important enough to try and get it back by killing the thief. If a player doesn't mind losing something, they are going to concentrate on fighting and the thief will end up with an item (and some points), but no chase...la
Here's a quick thought. Make it so insurance doesn't work in towns during VvV take overs. Insurance is the bane of the thief profession. If everyone is on the same playing field and if being killed will risk the chance of losing items...you will go back to the old PvP system where it wasn't entirely based on who had the best items.
How would that relate to thieves in combat you may ask?
This would give me plenty of reason to dust off my old disarm thief to jump into the fray, nothing beat the days when you could take down the strongest foe because you kept stealing the next weapon they loaded up, or kill them with your poisoned dagger after you stole their regs or band aids...la
How would that relate to thieves in combat you may ask?
This would give me plenty of reason to dust off my old disarm thief to jump into the fray, nothing beat the days when you could take down the strongest foe because you kept stealing the next weapon they loaded up, or kill them with your poisoned dagger after you stole their regs or band aids...la
Im sorry rico but if that were the case, atleast from my stand point, I would never step foot into a VvV match again if my items could be stolen. Im not exactly the richest person in the game so making a suit that's actually worthy enough to pvp in usually takes 60-80% of my cash to make.
That's not something I would ever gamble on.
Here's the point...you and most players wouldn't run around with your regular suits on. Not only would they be stealable (really it would only be the weapons) but lootable.
People would have to adjust their templates to play VvV but it would be a lot more for players with skill as opposed to the current players with the biggest bank account that wins...la
Love the concept but maybe o extreme outside of siege, here is a variation on the idea...
Something similar but less extreme and VvV specific would be allowing thieves to steal VvV items from characters during a battle... 250 Silver purchase a talisman of stealing (half the cost of buying an item).... use talisman on specific item (eliminate random steal and run), then the next attempted steal to gain item. If theft is successful, Talisman disappears and Item goes into thieves pack encased in a magical crystal. The crystal has *no ownership* and cursed for the rest of the battle. Thief can give it away or hold on to it. When the battle ends the holder of the crystal gets the option to claim the artifact or remove it from VvV. If the owner of the crystal takes ownership the item remains VvV with all properties and abilities but is now attuned to the new player. If removed from VvV item loses all VvV bonus's and becomes the regular artifact type but gains negatives of Antique and 100 durability). If crystal leaves battles before its over the crystal poofs and item is returned to original owner.
This allows people to lose things of value but also things they can replace by continuing to participate. It gives thieves the ability to hinder an enemy by taking an item they are relying on in the fight(VvV crimson for instance), gain an item more cheaply for themselves, or a friend, or keep and sell for profit to the outside world (without giving non VvV particpants, VvV caliber artifacts without actively participating).
-Lore's Player
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