Perm orange have to go, it hurt the wrong target

[FrejaSP]

Now I have seen the effect on Siege but believe normal shards have some of the problems too.
I understand it is made to control the interact from non VvV and that part work but Perm Orange is an overdo, 10-20 min of being orange would do the trick, at least on Siege, where we have no Trammel to hide in.
It effect several non PvP'ers very bad.

• Traders Quest runners, Fishers doing Fishing quest and players hanging out or shopping in their local town, that happen to be a VvV town too. Why should they be unable to use the towns and have to die to a VvV to be able to use the town again? They are not there to make trouble for VvV. They can accept to have to leave, when a battle goes on but they should be blue again 10-20 mins after they leave the town or the battle are over.
• Blue and VvV hanging out together, doing monster hunting. Why should blue not be able to heal or res a VvV guy, if ne is not fighting any VvV players? Perm orange is not ok, 10-20 min orange would be ok.
• Blue attacking a VvV player or looting his body or blue healing or ressing a VvV guy, who are active fighting other VvV. On Siege, where you will be orange everywhere and attackable, 10-20 min of orange should be enough. Sure you do not get a murder count from killing a VvV but I believe most join VvV to get more fights, so I don't see that as a problem.
• Guilds and alliances. I love that each guild member choose to be VvV or not but they should also be able to hunt monsters together and train PvP together without being perm orange. As green overrule orange, you can't even see if a guild member are perm orange. We need a way to see that and a player need to be able to see if he is flaged orange.
• VvV'ers want more fights but very few blue will want to fight them if it make them perm orange and VvV'ers will have harder to find a player who will res them. I really don't see any reason for perm orange. at least on Siege, changes it to 10-20 min orange flaged.

I'm making this post because Siege had been very slow after we got the public. I truly believe it is this Perm Orange thing that ruin the fun.
Would 10-20 min orange flaging work on normal shards?

 

[Peekay]

Siege and Mugen might be an exception. But it needs to stay on Normal servers. No more blue xhealers in guardzone. If you contribute to hostile activities or assist someone who is encompassed within a hostile affiliation (VvV), then you should be liable for the consequences. VvV towns have guardzone disabled for the small amount of time (tops being 15 minutes) that VvV is enabled in that town.

I can see the issue of this in that you are only allowed the one character per account on Siege and Mugen, however it just means you should be more aware of what is around you, and more careful with who you choose to hunt with. Long gone are the days of needing a dedicated tracker in a group when hunting (monsters or not, heh), but it looks like it might be something once again needed, on the Siege/Mugen servers atleast.

Adapt and overcome, friend.

o7

 

[Uvtha]

Siege and Mugen might be an exception. But it needs to stay on Normal servers. No more blue xhealers in guardzone. If you contribute to hostile activities or assist someone who is encompassed within a hostile affiliation (VvV), then you should be liable for the consequences. VvV towns have guardzone disabled for the small amount of time (tops being 15 minutes) that VvV is enabled in that town.

I can see the issue of this in that you are only allowed the one character per account on Siege and Mugen, however it just means you should be more aware of what is around you, and more careful with who you choose to hunt with. Long gone are the days of needing a dedicated tracker in a group when hunting (monsters or not, heh), but it looks like it might be something once again needed, on the Siege/Mugen servers atleast.

Adapt and overcome, friend.

o7

I for one am fine with a flag, even a long one... but permanent until a VvV kills you? That's overkill.

I went orange by not getting out of the first town I went to on publish day fast enough while doing a trade run, and am still orange. It's really obnoxious knowing I am no longer safe going to the bank, and I had nothing to do with VvV other than being in the same town while a battle was going on.

 

[SugarMMM]

I hate the orange flagging and how this VvV thing was implemented!

My characters are all crafters and gatherers that stay in Fel and they won't be partaking in VvV.

 

[SpyderBite]

I'm torn. Too short and you have a peanut gallery of non VvV. xhealers tag teaming from outside the battle.

On the other hand we have innocent people running around Orange to any attack.

Shorten the timer, people will exploit.

With all that said, it seems to me that the easiest solution is to give the innocents a little more time to get out of dodge before they flag Orange. If they stick around longer it's on them.

 

[Kojak]

this 30 second timer that turns you orange for just stepping in the town is stupid and overkill - it should just go away

you should only get perma-oranged if you interact with the VvV people in some way like healing them or attacking them etc.

 

[FrejaSP]

Siege and Mugen might be an exception. But it needs to stay on Normal servers. No more blue xhealers in guardzone. If you contribute to hostile activities or assist someone who is encompassed within a hostile affiliation (VvV), then you should be liable for the consequences. VvV towns have guardzone disabled for the small amount of time (tops being 15 minutes) that VvV is enabled in that town.

I did not say, remove orange flaging, just changing it from being permenent til having a timer. 10-20 min may be to short on normal servers, there it very well could be 3 days like the time it take to leave VvV.
On Siege, I feel that would be to long time as the crafters who happen to become orange from being to slow to leave a battle town or from healing a VvV guildmember, when doing monster hunt with him, where no VvV fights are involded.
On Siege, a blue trouble maker have very few places to hide, so it should not be a problem with a short timer. A blue attacking or healing a VvV will still be orange for a short time.

I can see the issue of this in that you are only allowed the one character per account on Siege and Mugen, however it just means you should be more aware of what is around you, and more careful with who you choose to hunt with. Long gone are the days of needing a dedicated tracker in a group when hunting (monsters or not, heh), but it looks like it might be something once again needed, on the Siege/Mugen servers atleast.
Adapt and overcome, friend.
o7

I did join VvV but I really don't see any reason, that players blue players who attack or heal me should stay orange until killed of a VvV. Letting them be orange for 10-20 min or even a few hours should do but perm orange is bad. On Siege, alot VvV will still be red too, so troublemakers will get hunted down no matter of their color.
This perm orange flaging is not needed and it will make crafters and PvM farmers give up Siege. That's bad as we need them and their vendors.

 

[FrejaSP]

this 30 second timer that turns you orange for just stepping in the town is stupid and overkill - it should just go away

you should only get perma-oranged if you interact with the VvV people in some way like healing them or attacking them etc.

I believe the 30 sec timer is fine as there are a reason for it. Just let players get blue again without having to ask a VvV to kill them.

 

[popps]

This might require a bit more work, codingwise, but the great thing is that with code most things, eventually, can be done....

Now, what is the reason for flagging orange non-VvV players ? To avoid that they take part in the VvV battles from a safe pedestal....

Now, there basically is 3 ways that they could take part in VvV battles not being flagged and that is :

- blocking push through with their bodies ;
- healing VvV players ;
- hitting VvV players with spells or anything else offensive ;

Now, how hard would it be to change code so that :

1) in areas under VvV ruleset (Towns etc.) non-VvV players will NOT block other VvV players (i.e. push through like in Trammel) ;
2) non-VvV healing attempts towards VvV players will simply have no effects, zero, nothing.... OR, simply, make it so that healing VvV characters will make non-VvV characters turn orange... ;
3) any offensive action from non-VvV towards VvV players will result in turning them Orange with all that means ;

With the above, non-VvV players will be able to stay in Felucca and not be flagged Orange UNLESS they commit any type of offensive act against a VvV character.

Sure, it is more coding work but if it would help to make UO a better game for more players then why not invest this extra effort ?

 

[Peekay]

Hrmm, seems like a formidable challenge. I might finally have to look into playing Siege again :>

 

[startle]

I agree completely with Freja... And while I'm thinking on it, what exactly is there to VvV that would be attractive to anyone on Siege?

Could use a bit of love here, Dark Lady...

 

[FrejaSP]

I agree completely with Freja... And while I'm thinking on it, what exactly is there to VvV that would be attractive to anyone on Siege?

Could use a bit of love here, Dark Lady...

I think there are alot in VvV, that will be attractive to Siege if we get this little flaging problem fixed.
VvV is not only about town battles and silver points, it's also a kind of improvememt of the guild/alliance system.
Lets take a player town, where the more PvP minded Citizen are PvP active. If agGroup of VvV, maybe from an other player town/Alliance decide to raid them, the non VvV can jump in and help defend the town. Yes they will be tempery orange but when the raid are over and all goes back to normal, they can go back to blue and take care of their shops and monster killing.
It's also useful as PvP switch, if you don't want to be red.
I hated Factions because it did not work well with the guild/alliance system. With VvV it's Guild/Alliance vs the world. In Faction you could risl to be in same faction as a guild you considered an enemy.

 

[Ru TnT]

Just get a friendly VvV player to kill ya. Sir Vincent and I have already helped a few people out after they got turned orange. Just yell in GC, if I'm around I'll lend a hand.

 

[OREOGL]

Right now, only fix bugs. Let the VVV system soak in for a while before making changes.

I dont think people understand large tweaks may have in repercussions.

Currently I have been playing more uo than I have in a few years combined.

The publish has done the trick as far as loot and PvP etc.

There is some concern about larger guilds always winning towns but you can almost always find a fight. Prior you'd log in at prime hours and see a dead shard.

There is much more to say, but overall devs have done an excellent job.

 

[FrejaSP]

Just get a friendly VvV player to kill ya. Sir Vincent and I have already helped a few people out after they got turned orange. Just yell in GC, if I'm around I'll lend a hand.

Yes that's what make Siege great, we do have a lot helpful players. It's funny to hear crafters ask, "Any VvV on, who can come kill me?"

Right now, only fix bugs. Let the VVV system soak in for a while before making changes.

I dont think people understand large tweaks may have in repercussions.

Currently I have been playing more uo than I have in a few years combined.

The publish has done the trick as far as loot and PvP etc.

There is some concern about larger guilds always winning towns but you can almost always find a fight. Prior you'd log in at prime hours and see a dead shard.

There is much more to say, but overall devs have done an excellent job.

Yes on normal shards, that's all fine, but on Siege, it's a little different, as new players and returning players like to start in Britain, Trinsic or Vesper. They don't know what goes on and if on Trial account, they can't use GC and ask for help.
I really believe we need short timer for this flaging.

 

[Tina Small]

Yes that's what make Siege great, we do have a lot helpful players. It's funny to hear crafters ask, "Any VvV on, who can come kill me?"



Yes on normal shards, that's all fine, but on Siege, it's a little different, as new players and returning players like to start in Britain, Trinsic or Vesper. They don't know what goes on and if on Trial account, they can't use GC and ask for help.
I really believe we need short timer for this flaging.

I've been reluctant to say anything about the VvV system and how it might affect Siege because I just don't play there that much anymore, even though I've kept my houses up and do log in almost daily some weeks just to do some minor puttering around.

It seems to me that these are the activities that VvV has the potential to affect in a bad way on various shards, especially if the people doing these things are not conscious of the system being in effect, which is the case for a lot of people who have been actively playing but haven't put in a lot of time to stay on top of publish notes and player postings here and elsewhere and even more so people who have been away for any length of time and who just come back and plunge into things:

- Stealing refinement components in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew. What a mess if you just stole one and can't leave town by recalling/gating because you're flagged for stealing.

- Getting and turning in BODs and bribing smith/tailor NPCs for better BODs in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew. Note that some people turn in BODs in specific towns that are part of the governor system in order to gain in loyalty in the city in order to be able to run for office, vote in elections, and/or purchase city banners.

- Applying armor refinements at one of the designated NPC tailor, smith, or carpenter shops. (Note: On Siege, for blacksmithing refinements, you can go to Cove which isn't a VvV city. However, for tailor refinements you go to Occlo and for carpenter refinements you go to Yew.)

- Doing the new merchant quests if your origin or destination city is Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew or if you want to give the goods to Slim the Fence in Occlo.

- Escorting NPCs for compassion gains. If you accept one of the quests without knowing that the destination city is in or going to be in a battle, you would have to cancel the quest and wait 5 minutes to even attempt to find another NPC going to a different city.

- Turning in lost items for honesty gains in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew. People who use Forensic Evaluation skill to more precisely determine where to return the lost item get larger honesty gains, which helps them lower their NPC purchase expenses.

- Receiving or turning in fish monger quests in Britain, Jhelom, Moonglow, Skara Brae, or Trinsic.

- Starting/ending the Naturalist quest for rare-colored seeds in either Britain, Jhelom, or Occlo.

- Visiting NPCs in Occlo, Vesper, Britain, Jhelom, and Trinsic as part of doing the Collector's Quest.

- Doing the quest to contribute to the Britain Public Library or the Last Words quest for a strong box.

- Doing either of the quests to gain access to the Citadel or get the quest item from Travesty for a strongbox.

- Doing the Vile Poison quest to be able to make bone machetes to enter Blighted Grove. (You have to go to Jhelom to visit Iosep the Exporter.)

- Visiting Pepta the Royal Taste Tester in Britain to do her quest for Pepta's Satiety Cure .

- Visiting Patricus the Trader on the Trinsic docks as part of the quest to become human again.

- Doing any one of the three bard mastery quests with NPCs at the Conservatory in Britain.

- Visiting Britain, Vesper, and Jhelom as part of the Lost in Transit quest.

- Doing the Guilty quest starting with Natalie in Skara Brae.

- Doing the Unfading Memories quest starting with Emilio the Tortured Artist in Britain.

- Doing the Ghost of Covetous quest starting with Ben the Apprentice Necromancer in Minoc and ending with Andros the Blacksmith in Minoc.

- Doing the Aemaeth quest that uses NPCs in Jhelom (Aurelia and the Skeleton of Szandor).

- Doing the Doughty Warriors quest that uses the Kane Master of Arms NPC in Trinsic.

- Doing the Honest Beggar quest that uses the Evan the Beggar and Regina the Noble NPCs in Britain.

- Doing the Honor of the DeBoors quest that uses the Derek the Merchant and Jack the Loan Shark NPCs in Trinsic.

- Visiting Trinsic, Britain, Skara Brae, Minoc, Occlo/Haven as part of the quest to get the Cloak of Humility to complete the Virtue Armor suit.

- Visiting Trinsic, Britain, Jhelom (among many other places) to finish the Exploring the Deep quest.

- If the turkey nest event makes a return, visiting that ornithologist NPC in Jhelom. (Not quite sure I got that right, but I know he's in Jhelom!)

- Using the inns in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew.

- Using the banks in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew.

- Using the stables in Britain, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew.

- Using the fighting pit in Jhelom to train a character.

- Using the arcane circle at the West Britain Bank to get a level 6 spellweaving focus.

- Buying from (or, other than Siege/Mugen, selling to) the NPCs in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew.

- Visiting a mage guildmaster to pay to have Mage Armor property added to or removed from an item. (You can only find mage guildmasters at some magery shops. Have not yet researched where you can find all of them.)

- Donating to the Britain Public Library for items.

- Begging from or asking for Halloween treats from NPCs in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew.

- Entering/exiting Heartwood in Yew to do crafting or other types of quests (e.g., quest to access Twisted Weald) or to beg for the items that are only available from the elves.

- Visiting the town stone in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew to set your trade deal buff.

- Dropping items in the trade minister's box in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew or dropping off pets at the trade minister's hitching post to build up town loyalty.

- Purchasing a banner from the trade minister in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew .

- Donating gold to the town finances in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew .

- If you are a citizen of Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew, using a ballot box that the governor of the town placed at the town stone.

- Reading the governors' message board in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew .

- If you're a town governor in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew, meeting with citizens to give them a title.

- If you're a town governor Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew, holding a player-run event in your town.

- Passing through Occlo to get to the arena.

- Visiting the EM Hall in Britain on Siege (not sure where it is on Mugen).

- Visiting Blackthorn's Castle if you don't recall into the dungeon via a corrupted portal and then walk up to the castle level.

- Attending an EM event held in Britain, Jhelom, Minoc, Moonglow, Occlo, Skara Brae, Trinsic, or Yew

I have a friend who is trying to come back and play during the RtB promotion. She has a character on Siege that is logged out at one of the inns in a town that is part of the VvV system. I've told her let's not even bother with Siege right now because with our luck, we'll be trying to get her out of there and safely to a house when the battle will kick off in that town and we'll both end up orange. It's just not worth the hassle to try to play there under those conditions. I have to wonder how many other people are telling friends the same thing right now.

I hope it can be worked out I know I'm leery of playing on Siege at this point because of the implications of being unwillingly drawn into VvV. I have no intention of interfering in VvV fights and I don't think anyone else in my guild does either. But we now have to think even more carefully about spending time there and doing things away from our houses.

And again, I really wasn't going to say anything and was hoping the dust would settle a bit and things would work out. But it's definitely been on my mind because it really feels like now Siege is a place I really don't want to spend much time on and maybe it's time to just pack as much as possible in the bank there and walk away because I don't want anything to do with VvV on Siege. I play a crafter and do PvM to support the crafting and that's it. PvPing there isn't even in my sights and most likely never will be.

 

[popps]

I've been reluctant to say anything about the VvV system and how it might affect Siege because I just don't play there that much anymore, even though I've kept my houses up and do log in almost daily some weeks just to do some minor puttering around.

It seems to me that these are the activities that VvV has the potential to affect in a bad way on various shards, especially if the people doing these things are not conscious of the system being in effect, which is the case for a lot of people who have been actively playing but haven't put in a lot of time to stay on top of publish notes and player postings here and elsewhere and even more so people who have been away for any length of time and who just come back and plunge into things:

- Stealing refinement components. What a mess if you just stole one and can't leave town by recalling/gating because you're flagged for stealing.

- Getting and turning in BODs and bribing smith/tailor NPCs for better BODs.

- Doing the new merchant quests.

- Receiving or turning in fish monger quests.

- Using the inns.

- Using the banks.

- Using the stables.

- Buying from (or, other than Siege/Mugen, selling to) the NPCs.

- Visiting the cemeteries that are in town limits (e.g., Jhelom) if there is a halloween or other event using cemeteries.

- Entering/exiting Heartwood in Yew.

- Visiting the town stone on Siege or Mugen to set your trade deal buff.

- If you're a town governor on Siege or Mugen, meeting with citizens to give them a title.

- If you're a town governor on Siege or Mugen, holding a player-run event in your town.

- Visiting the EM Hall in Britain on Siege (not sure where it is on Mugen).

- Attending an EM event held in one of the towns.

I have a friend who is trying to come back and play during the RtB promotion. She has a character on Siege that is logged out at one of the inns in a town that is part of the VvV system. I've told her let's not even bother with Siege right now because with our luck, we'll be trying to get her out of there and safely to a house when the battle will kick off in that town and we'll both end up orange. It's just not worth the hassle to try to play there under those conditions. I have to wonder how many other people are telling friends the same thing right now.

I hope it can be worked out I know I'm leery of playing on Siege at this point because of the implications of being unwillingly drawn into VvV. I have no intention of interfering in VvV fights and I don't think anyone else in my guild does either. But we now have to think even more carefully about spending time there and doing things away from our houses.

And again, I really wasn't going to say anything and was hoping the dust would settle a bit and things would work out. But it's definitely been on my mind because it really feels like now Siege is a place I really don't want to spend much time on and maybe it's time to just pack as much as possible in the bank there and walk away because I don't want anything to do with VvV on Siege. I play a crafter and do PvM to support the crafting and that's it. PvPing there isn't even in my sights and most likely never will be.

All of the activities you mentioned are endangered greatly by the orange labelling but some of those you mentioned can indeed be a VERY big problem to lots of players because common and quite needed.

Particularly,

- Stealing refinement components. What a mess if you just stole one and can't leave town by recalling/gating because you're flagged for stealing.

- Getting and turning in BODs and bribing smith/tailor NPCs for better BODs.

- Doing the new merchant quests.

- Entering/exiting Heartwood in Yew.

- Attending an EM event held in one of the towns.

Personally, I think that the above can be a game breaker for many many players....


Definately, some other way must be found to prevent non-VvV characters (blue) to interact (heal/attack) VvV players other then just labelling everyone orange........

 

[FrejaSP]

I've been reluctant to say anything about the VvV system and how it might affect Siege because I just don't play there that much anymore, even though I've kept my houses up and do log in almost daily some weeks just to do some minor puttering around.

It seems to me that these are the activities that VvV has the potential to affect in a bad way on various shards, especially if the people doing these things are not conscious of the system being in effect, which is the case for a lot of people who have been actively playing but haven't put in a lot of time to stay on top of publish notes and player postings here and elsewhere and even more so people who have been away for any length of time and who just come back and plunge into things:

- Stealing refinement components. What a mess if you just stole one and can't leave town by recalling/gating because you're flagged for stealing.

- Getting and turning in BODs and bribing smith/tailor NPCs for better BODs.

- Doing the new merchant quests.

- Receiving or turning in fish monger quests.

- Using the inns.

- Using the banks.

- Using the stables.

- Buying from (or, other than Siege/Mugen, selling to) the NPCs.

- Visiting the cemeteries that are in town limits (e.g., Jhelom) if there is a halloween or other event using cemeteries.

- Entering/exiting Heartwood in Yew.

- Visiting the town stone on Siege or Mugen to set your trade deal buff.

- Edited to add this one: Dropping items in the trade minister's box or dropping off pets at the trade minister's hitching post to build up town loyalty.

- Edited to add this one: Purchasing a banner from the trade minister.

- If you're a town governor on Siege or Mugen, meeting with citizens to give them a title.

- If you're a town governor on Siege or Mugen, holding a player-run event in your town.

- Visiting the EM Hall in Britain on Siege (not sure where it is on Mugen).

- Attending an EM event held in one of the towns.

I have a friend who is trying to come back and play during the RtB promotion. She has a character on Siege that is logged out at one of the inns in a town that is part of the VvV system. I've told her let's not even bother with Siege right now because with our luck, we'll be trying to get her out of there and safely to a house when the battle will kick off in that town and we'll both end up orange. It's just not worth the hassle to try to play there under those conditions. I have to wonder how many other people are telling friends the same thing right now.

I hope it can be worked out I know I'm leery of playing on Siege at this point because of the implications of being unwillingly drawn into VvV. I have no intention of interfering in VvV fights and I don't think anyone else in my guild does either. But we now have to think even more carefully about spending time there and doing things away from our houses.

And again, I really wasn't going to say anything and was hoping the dust would settle a bit and things would work out. But it's definitely been on my mind because it really feels like now Siege is a place I really don't want to spend much time on and maybe it's time to just pack as much as possible in the bank there and walk away because I don't want anything to do with VvV on Siege. I play a crafter and do PvM to support the crafting and that's it. PvPing there isn't even in my sights and most likely never will be.

Thanks for posting this Tina, I believe a lot of the non PvP'ers on Siege feel like you right now and that's the reason Siege seem dead after this public. Siege need you all back, without you, there won't be any to stock the vendors. Siege will be like a house without women, it will fall a part.

 

[Tina Small]

Thanks for posting this Tina, I believe a lot of the non PvP'ers on Siege feel like you right now and that's the reason Siege seem dead after this public. Siege need you all back, without you, there won't be any to stock the vendors. Siege will be like a house without women, it will fall a part.

I've added a few more activities to that list, Freja, if it matters.

 

[OREOGL]

Help me out here @FrejaSP or @tinasmall. Its been awhile since I've been on siege but are there guards in town?

Stealing refinements is different. I know in most cases people are alerted at least 5 minutes in advance. I dont kniw about u nguilded chars but they could add the alert to people in the city who aren't in a guild or vvv about the upcoming battle if they dont already.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

might be a good time to grant all siege players one more toon per account.

 

[OREOGL]

might be a good time to grant all siege players one more toon per account.

Yeah I always thought limiting them was dumb.

 

[FrejaSP]

Help me out here @FrejaSP or @tinasmall. Its been awhile since I've been on siege but are there guards in town?

Stealing refinements is different. I know in most cases people are alerted at least 5 minutes in advance. I dont kniw about u nguilded chars but they could add the alert to people in the city who aren't in a guild or vvv about the upcoming battle if they dont already.

Yes we do have Guards in towns, except when a battle goes on
To get the alert, at least one player in your guild need to be in VvV
Yes a global warning could help
I really don't see any reason for "orange until you die to a VvV". In old Evil/Hero system, we had on Siege many years ago, someone attacking or looting an evil player would be grey to all evil for 20 min, that worked fine, so orange for 20 min would work great too.

 

[FrejaSP]

I've added a few more activities to that list, Freja, if it matters.

Thanks again, I love your systematic way to search for issues. I hope our Devs will see it.
As all can see, on Siege battles are going on in towns used for a lot other stuff so it really are a problem as a lot don't like being attackable in towns.

 

[OREOGL]

Yes we do have Guards in towns, except when a battle goes on
To get the alert, at least one player in your guild need to be in VvV
Yes a global warning could help
I really don't see any reason for "orange until you die to a VvV". In old Evil/Hero system, we had on Siege many years ago, someone attacking or looting an evil player would be grey to all evil for 20 min, that worked fine, so orange for 20 min would work great too.

I dont think thats accurate. From what I understand, when I asked kyronix, he said it was a symptom of the messaging in the guild system whether any in is in or not. But perhaps I misunderstood.

Some of these other points are exaggerated a bit, since youbare capable of doing those things in a non warring town.

It seems to me it just needs tonhave better alert system.

I think its suitable that if you assist an orange or attack it makes you participate until you die as an incentive to join or not interfere.

The being in town is a mild argument but I think this is a matter of opinion too.

 

[FrejaSP]

I dont think thats accurate. From what I understand, when I asked kyronix, he said it was a symptom of the messaging in the guild system whether any in is in or not. But perhaps I misunderstood.

Some of these other points are exaggerated a bit, since youbare capable of doing those things in a non warring town.

It seems to me it just needs tonhave better alert system.

I think its suitable that if you assist an orange or attack it makes you participate until you die as an incentive to join or not interfere.

The being in town is a mild argument but I think this is a matter of opinion too.

You say: Some of these other points are exaggerated a bit, since youbare capable of doing those things in a non warring town.
For a lot of the actions, we are not capable of doing those things in a non warring town, we do not have the trammel facet so quests, that be fishing, traders or Heartwood quests are done in Fel town so are a lot other stuff on Tina's list. We do not our governor towns in Trammel, they are in Felucca, event our EM Hall is in Britain Felucca. Mugen do have the Trammel facet, we do not on Siege

 

[Tina Small]

Added more to the list in my previous post, if it matters.

 

[OREOGL]

You say: Some of these other points are exaggerated a bit, since youbare capable of doing those things in a non warring town.
For a lot of the actions, we are not, we do not have the trammel facet so quests, that be fishing, traders or Heartwood quests are done in Fel town so are a lot other stuff on Tina's list. We do not our governor towns in Trammel, they are in Felucca, event our EM Hall is in Britain Felucca. Mugen do have the Trammel facet, we do not on Siege
Maybe you should give Siege a try and then speak.

I've played Siege before but I can understand your need to feel a lititle wry.

However you can choose to do bods in towns that aren't warring.

You guys do have Luna regardless of guards.

You can do traders in new mag and go to Ocllo for slim. Or simply wait 5 minutes until the fight is over in the current town.

The examples are very secluded and probably do not represent actual occurrence rather than fitting something to an argument.

Governors do not spend that much time in cities they govern.

I could go on but im pretty sure you can acknowledge truth to this side of the argument just like there is some merit to be had on yours.

 

[FrejaSP]

Sorry I got mad at you OREOGL. I am in VvV, it's not about me doing BoDs or other quests but about Siege being dead after we got this public, even when all should be busy with quests, hallowen, VvV, hunting for new loot.

 

[OREOGL]

Sorry I got mad at you OREOGL. I am in VvV, it's not about me doing BoDs or other quests but about Siege being dead after we got this public, even when all should be busy with quests, hallowen, VvV, hunting for new loot.

No offense was intended. Just a difference in opinion and views.

I can understand not wanting being orange to interfere with daily activities.

But I think there are lots of ways to resolve a problem. What I am trying to avoid is a "fix" that botches normal shards.

 

[FrejaSP]

I know it is different on other shards, where Fel are a big battle zone. I think a small fix could make a big diff on Siege, it do not have to be on normal shards too. Just add to Siege, if not killed of a VvV after 20 min, the orange flaged will become blue again.

 

[popps]

But I think there are lots of ways to resolve a problem. What I am trying to avoid is a "fix" that botches normal shards.

I do not see why Siege and normal Shards should be handled differently.

The fact that on normal shards one can have more than 1 character helps as versus Siege which only allows for 1 character but that does not mean that on normal shards non-VvV characters should not have the same problems that they have on Siege....

There is crafters, BODs, resources gatherers etc. on normal shards like there are on Siege and they have been hurt by orange labelling just like they have been on Siege.

If the goal is avoiding blues (non-VvV) to interact with VvV players then the orange labelling is largely unneeded. Just make it so that if a non-VvV heals or attacks a VvV character they turn orange, but NOT if they just mind their own business and leave VvV players alone....

The push through ?

Easy, make it so that blues in VvV battle zones can be pushed through freely.....

 

[OREOGL]

I dont see why Siege and normal Shards should be handled differently.

The fact that on normal shards one can have more than 1 character helps as versus Siege which only allows for 1 character but that does not mean that on normal shards non-VvV characters should not have the same problems that they have on Siege....

There is crafters, BODs, resources gatherers etc. on normal shards like there are on Siege and they have been hurt by orange labelling just like they have been on Siege.

If the goal is avoiding blues (non-VvV) to interact with VvV players then the orange labelling is largely unneeded. Just make it so that if a non-VvV heals or attacks a VvV character they turn orange, but NOT if they just mind their own business and leave VvV players alone....

The push through ?

Easy, make it so that blues in VvV battle zones can be pushed through freely.....

Im having some trouble correlating so youll have to excuse me.

I feel as if you're trying to lead my response in a particular direction.

All in all, my response is that I do not want to affect the current system until it has been played for a while.

However, I was not advocating for blues to be isolated. I think oneor both of us has misunderstood each other.

 

[FrejaSP]

The system is still new and not perfect yet, we will see some fix. Even when it was on TC, many issues get over looked there. I'm just trying to get the issues listed and this thread works fine for this. That will help Devs making needed changes.
We need input from both sides and we need to understand how it effect both sides

 

[Skalazar]

All orange flagging does is discourage new players from pvping.

 

[FrejaSP]

It may help some to PvP too, I don't think it's the ones who want to start PvP, who have problems with it. It's the ones who like being safe in town

 

[Troop]

Getting orange accidentally is bad. I just found out that can happen.

 

[Tina Small]

Speaking only of Siege and Mugen, one big aspect of VvV that I think is kind of being overlooked is that the non-PvPer population who wish to avoid turning orange must wait for the PvPers to do their in-town battle in a specific town before that town is once again available for other purposes. And there is no way to know, once a town is "back to normal" how long it will remain that way, as the battles switch between towns in a random order.

So what you have, in effect, is a PvP-based system that will at various times and for various lengths of times, most likely inconvenience just about everyone on the shard to some extent. And sooner or later, the people who aren't interested in constantly PvPing, may just decide the inconvenience and the waiting around for battles to finish so they can get on to doing what they wanted to do may is too much and they may just give up on Siege.

The PvPers already have a lot of the control on Siege just by its very nature. What this system does is pretty much cement that control even more in the favor of the PvPers (whether or not they really wanted it) and says to everyone else that they are truly and in every almost every way second-class citizens on Siege.

At least with factions, non-PvPers could count on being able to go to town, do quests, etc. whenever their schedule permitted it. Now they have to work around a schedule over which no one on the shard has any control or any knowledge of what it is going to be like. It may just be too much randomness and lack of control for many people to deal with in the long run.

At least that's kind of my take on it. Yes, you can go to other towns for many things. But there will sooner or later be some things that you can only do in certain towns and you will have to wait and perhaps will only get a 30-minute (or maybe even just a 5-minute) window to get it done before that town is a battle zone once again.

Edited for grammar and spelling.

 

[OREOGL]

All orange flagging does is discourage new players from pvping.

Im not sure about this. As far as regular shards, those who dont want to stay in tram. Otherwise, trying pvp is pretty much jumping in feet first regardless of what Color your tag is.

Im not certain how else you'd encourage new players since they must be in a guild to join. If they attack someone then its on them.

 

[kelmo]

*smiles*

 

[RueTor]

I'm torn. Too short and you have a peanut gallery of non VvV. xhealers tag teaming from outside the battle.

On the other hand we have innocent people running around Orange to any attack.

Shorten the timer, people will exploit.

With all that said, it seems to me that the easiest solution is to give the innocents a little more time to get out of dodge before they flag Orange. If they stick around longer it's on them.

My two gold coins....

Aside from increasing the timer, here are a couple other suggestions that may work for Production and Siege/Mugen rulesets.

1) Provide an option/toggle to non-V&V players to see the city under attack (e.g., the same message the V&V members see) to avoid going to a city that is hot. Turn if on or off as you desire.

2) If you are ever flagged as orange for whatever reason, you should get a something that stays with you on your buff-icon until it is removed by death or other proposed timer.

Fyi... Kyronix quote "Something we can do is to add a button to the warning gump that will teleport you to the nearest moongate if you can't get out fast enough. I think this could help" Post #82 of http://stratics.com/community/threads/merchant-quest-and-vvv-sigh.322095/page-2 (Nice, but seems way to easy. Next issue will be that it takes to long to pick a new city from the moongate menu )

 

[SugarMMM]

Does or can VvV happen in all Fel towns? I did a bunch of searches and couldn't find a list of towns that are participating.

I'm trying to figure out which towns to avoid while doing my crafting and gathering.

 

[Obsidian]

Does or can VvV happen in all Fel towns? I did a bunch of searches and couldn't find a list of towns that are participating.

I'm trying to figure out which towns to avoid while doing my crafting and gathering.

It does not happen in New Magincia and Serpents Hold. There is one more town, but I cannot remember which one.

 

[Ru TnT]

It does not happen in New Magincia and Serpents Hold. There is one more town, but I cannot remember which one.

Cove and Vesper, unless things are different on the other shards.

 

[Tina Small]

Added some more items to the list above, if it even matters. Going to bed now and going to try to stop thinking about this and finding new stuff to add to that list!

 

[popps]

Does or can VvV happen in all Fel towns? I did a bunch of searches and couldn't find a list of towns that are participating.

I'm trying to figure out which towns to avoid while doing my crafting and gathering.

It does not happen in New Magincia and Serpents Hold. There is one more town, but I cannot remember which one.

Cove and Vesper, unless things are different on the other shards.

They are still too many Towns which are involved in VvV battles and thus a risk to go to..... too many to avoid them all outright, for several important activities in the game.

Just to name some of the most common and important (please refer to Tina's comprehensive list of affected activities here (http://stratics.com/community/threa...it-hurt-the-wrong-target.322699/#post-2442848), BODs and bribing for BODs need as many Tailors and Smithies as possible to keep costs under check and stealing refinements ingredients with their spawn rate cannot be relegated to only 3 or 4 non VvV Towns on a whole Shard....

There has to be a better way to avoid blues interaction with VvV battles then just perma flagging everyone orange.........

 

[Dodger]

Orange is the new black.

 

[James Moriarty]

Well so much for their special focus group....

 

[popps]

Well so much for their special focus group....

Anyone knowledged about the ins and outs of software coding has any idea of a different way that the VvV engine could handle blues (non-VvV players) interaction with VvV battles other then flagging everyone as orange ?

Would it work to have blues (non-VvV players) get flagged orange only if they performed either a beneficial or an offensive act towards a VvV player (that would include area spells if they hurt a VvV player...) ?

And if not, would it be possible to come up with some other brilliant idea which would not need the flagging orange of blues (non-VvV players)?

I think we need as a must (for the better sake of UO), to avoid bringing back large scale pkilling in UO thanking to orange labelling....

 

[kaio]

Not many uses the fel towns on PRODO shards. but since the VvV system came, there are now a risk involved in beeing in those towns..
It does seems like our DEVs are having great trouble getting things right. So how about making things easiere for them.
When u enter fel, u get orange, and everyone is in VvV. Reinstate the old Faction strongholds, and add 2 new ones.. And have the VvV battles go on there.
Our fel cities should stay neutral, and have a working guard system.. Here blues should be protected by guards, and no organge flagging or any VvV stuff at all.. If a red goes to a city,
And they get attacked by a blue, then they have to deal with it.